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    BlackDragon

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    Default Star Wars Races PEACH (and suggest more races for us to convert)

    A fellow DM and I are working on homebrewing races for a Star Wars setting to use in 5e.

    Here's what we have so far.

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    Default Re: Star Wars Races PEACH (and suggest more races for us to convert)

    Bothans really should not have blanket disadvantage on deception checks, given all the deceiving they get up to.

    Gran feel somewhat overpowered - +4 to attributes, 3 skill proficiencies, and advantage on three saving throws? yeesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Frost
    `This is just the beginning, Citizens! Today we have boiled a pot who's steam shall be seen across the entire galaxy. The Tea Must Flow, and it shall! The banner of the British Space Empire will be unfurled across a thousand worlds, carried forth by the citizens of Urn, and before them the Tea shall flow like a steaming brown river of shi-*cough*- shimmering moral fibre!`

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    Default Re: Star Wars Races PEACH (and suggest more races for us to convert)

    No Gungans?

    But yeah, a lot of these races don't seem very... well, they're really strong and/or have bonuses/penalties that don't make much sense.
    Apologies for any poor wording, my brain is always broken
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    Default Re: Star Wars Races PEACH (and suggest more races for us to convert)

    It might be easier to just, ya know....use basic Human stats for all humanoids in Star Wars. There's just no real difference between a Chiss and a Human, or a Rodian and a Human that would merit a mechanical difference in this edition. Wookies could warrant a Goliath statblock.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zap Dynamic View Post
    Ninjadeadbeard just ninja'd my post. How apt.
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    Default Re: Star Wars Races PEACH (and suggest more races for us to convert)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTeaMustFlow View Post
    Bothans really should not have blanket disadvantage on deception checks, given all the deceiving they get up to.
    Bothans in the lore literally cannot get away with lying. Their fur give away their emotional state, and ripples when they're lying.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTeaMustFlow View Post
    Gran feel somewhat overpowered - +4 to attributes, 3 skill proficiencies, and advantage on three saving throws? yeesh.
    Gnomes get the same saving throw advantages; It's a trait that's already in the game. Their three skill proficiencies come from what we could piece together in the lore about them. And one of their +2s is to Intelligence, which is normally the dump stat. Originally they didn't have Gran Cunning, but they felt really underwhelming without it... Does it honestly make them that underpowered? Mountain Dwarves have two +2s, and they also get the equivalent of 3 feats (Weapon Master, Lightly Armored, Moderately Armored)

    Quote Originally Posted by SodaDarwin View Post
    No Gungans?
    They're coming

    Quote Originally Posted by SodaDarwin View Post
    But yeah, a lot of these races don't seem very... well, they're really strong and/or have bonuses/penalties that don't make much sense.
    Everything that we've given them comes straight out of the lore. We haven't given any of the races something that they don't actually have. (Save giving Gran Gran Cunning, because they were seriously underwhelming without it.)

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    Default Re: Star Wars Races PEACH (and suggest more races for us to convert)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjadeadbeard View Post
    It might be easier to just, ya know....use basic Human stats for all humanoids in Star Wars. There's just no real difference between a Chiss and a Human, or a Rodian and a Human that would merit a mechanical difference in this edition. Wookies could warrant a Goliath statblock.
    It would totally be easier. . . but we figured that this would be so much more fun. Anyways, we've decided to go this route (brewing the races) and won't be dissuaded, so what do you think of everything so far?

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    Default Re: Star Wars Races PEACH (and suggest more races for us to convert)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTeaMustFlow View Post
    Bothans really should not have blanket disadvantage on deception checks, given all the deceiving they get up to.

    Gran feel somewhat overpowered - +4 to attributes, 3 skill proficiencies, and advantage on three saving throws? yeesh.
    You think the Gran are OP, but you fail to comment on the Wookie? Lol. Honestly these races being OP or not depends totally on the intention and the setting. The setting is Star Wars, so I'm assuming that they're not going to be walking around adventuring with Dwarves and Tieflings.

    And looking at the Gran, who you feel are soooooo OP: They get +2 Intelligence, which is the dump stat of anyone not playing a Wizard (unless they choose not to dump it for RP reasons, and it makes sense fluff-wise, since Gran are highly logical) and they get a +2 Charisma. Gran are highly social creatures. They literally cannot survive without companionship. When you look like they do, you have to be Charismatic to keep people around. Let's look at their three skill proficiencies: Perception, Persuasion and Insight. Perception, okay, this makes sense, they have 3 eyes, and much better vision. The game will reflect such with this boost to their Passive Perception. However, Gran DON'T get a Wisdom bump. Persuasion, this does key off of one of their +2s, but again, they die without companionship. Insight, Gran are very good at reading people and picking up social cues. Without giving them a Wisdom bump, this is a good way to reflect that.

    Oh, btdubs this is a Gran.


    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    A fellow DM and I are working on homebrewing races for a Star Wars setting to use in 5e.

    Here's what we have so far.
    I like what you have so far. If you had to add something that you don't already have in there, I would love to see the Yuuzhan Vong and the Barabel.

    Thank you guys for converting this stuff to 5e, I hated it when my players begged me to run the Star Wars RPG. It was pretty bad.

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    Default Re: Star Wars Races PEACH (and suggest more races for us to convert)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    Bothans in the lore literally cannot get away with lying. Their fur give away their emotional state, and ripples when they're lying.
    I know. Deception =/= lying, and Bothans as I recall I quite good with their sins of omission, half-truths and such. I would suggest instead that they have disadvantage on deception when telling an outright lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    Gnomes get the same saving throw advantages; It's a trait that's already in the game. Their three skill proficiencies come from what we could piece together in the lore about them. And one of their +2s is to Intelligence, which is normally the dump stat. Originally they didn't have Gran Cunning, but they felt really underwhelming without it... Does it honestly make them that underpowered? Mountain Dwarves have two +2s, and they also get the equivalent of 3 feats (Weapon Master, Lightly Armored, Moderately Armored)
    Firstly, you will note that gnomes (who, incidentally, only get advantage vs magic - a small but significant difference, as a friend of mine discovered courtesy of a rather miffed berserker) get few racial benefits apart from that - most of their subrace features are circumstantial at best. The Mountain Dwarves are balanced by their subrace features essentially cancelling each other out - virtually any strength build is already proficient with medium armour, and virtually any build which benefits from medium armour benefits very little from strength.

    To a degree, the Gran suffers from the same, in that no class, afaik, utilizes both intelligence and charisma. However, for a skillmonkey (a role to which the Gran will obviously tend), both are certainly useful to a degree. Furthermore, even if they only had +2 to charisma, they still have a superior version of the Gnome's main feature and at least an equal version of the half-elf's main feature - probably better, since although the skills are set in stone, they're really good skills, and you get one extra.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    Everything that we've given them comes straight out of the lore. We haven't given any of the races something that they don't actually have. (Save giving Gran Gran Cunning, because they were seriously underwhelming without it.)
    I can't help but notice that in both Saga Edition and FFG Gran in fact have a penalty to intelligence. Well, cunning in FFG, but the point remains. Also: cunning.

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite View Post
    You think the Gran are OP, but you fail to comment on the Wookie? Lol
    I actually managed to miss the wookie when looking through. Looking at them now... yeah, they have problems, primarly bestial ferocity.

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite View Post
    Honestly these races being OP or not depends totally on the intention and the setting. The setting is Star Wars, so I'm assuming that they're not going to be walking around adventuring with Dwarves and Tieflings.
    The problem is not merely that they are overpowered compared to vanilla races (at least one of which is, incidentally, still going to be walking around - you may recall that there is the odd human in Star Wars), but that they are also op when compared to some of the other races here, such as the decidedly `meh` Rodians and Chiss, not to mention the pathetic Zabrak. On that note, the Togruta and Twi'lek could also do with a bit of looking at.

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite View Post
    And looking at the Gran, who you feel are soooooo OP: They get +2 Intelligence, which is the dump stat of anyone not playing a Wizard (unless they choose not to dump it for RP reasons, and it makes sense fluff-wise, since Gran are highly logical) and they get a +2 Charisma. Gran are highly social creatures. They literally cannot survive without companionship. When you look like they do, you have to be Charismatic to keep people around. Let's look at their three skill proficiencies: Perception, Persuasion and Insight. Perception, okay, this makes sense, they have 3 eyes, and much better vision. The game will reflect such with this boost to their Passive Perception. However, Gran DON'T get a Wisdom bump. Persuasion, this does key off of one of their +2s, but again, they die without companionship. Insight, Gran are very good at reading people and picking up social cues. Without giving them a Wisdom bump, this is a good way to reflect that.
    I think I've addressed the crunch above. As regards the matter of them dying, this would matter if there was any stated in-game effect connected with that - balancing crunch with fluff is generally reckoned to be a bad idea. Even then, a weakness obviated by associating with other characters is rather weak in a game with multiple players. Furthermore, whatever the fluff says does not obviate the need for balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite View Post
    Oh, btdubs this is a Gran.
    Thank you, but I'm quite aware of what they look like. How is this relevant?
    Last edited by TheTeaMustFlow; 2015-11-08 at 01:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Frost
    `This is just the beginning, Citizens! Today we have boiled a pot who's steam shall be seen across the entire galaxy. The Tea Must Flow, and it shall! The banner of the British Space Empire will be unfurled across a thousand worlds, carried forth by the citizens of Urn, and before them the Tea shall flow like a steaming brown river of shi-*cough*- shimmering moral fibre!`

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    Default Re: Star Wars Races PEACH (and suggest more races for us to convert)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTeaMustFlow View Post
    I can't help but notice that in both Saga Edition and FFG Gran in fact have a penalty to intelligence. Well, cunning in FFG, but the point remains. Also: cunning.
    Speaking of which, lifting and adapting the Saga stats would be the fastest method of conversion, using Humans as your "Rosetta Stone" for the adaptation, so to speak.
    3DS Friend Code: 4742-9573-4652

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    Default Re: Star Wars Races PEACH (and suggest more races for us to convert)

    I think everyone giving feedback should try and help the OP balance the races against each other, instead of taking the 5e races into consideration. This is obviously going to be a closed off game from standard 5e. So, instead of saying that's OP compared to Half-Elves, etc., let's help bring the races into closer balance with each other. Yes, humans will be walking around, but you CAN buff humans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite View Post
    I think everyone giving feedback should try and help the OP balance the races against each other, instead of taking the 5e races into consideration. This is obviously going to be a closed off game from standard 5e. So, instead of saying that's OP compared to Half-Elves, etc., let's help bring the races into closer balance with each other. Yes, humans will be walking around, but you CAN buff humans.
    The problem is though it isn't just about being overpowered against the original races it is about the intention of power the game expects lower level characters to be. 5e kind of like 4e made race based enemies different than the races you selected so making higher powered races expects you to adjust encounters or even the creatures themselves in their difficulty. Additionally some of the races among the ones created here are clearly better than others. The Human(combining the variants), Wookie, Twi'lek, and Togruta make races like the Zabrak, Kel Dorian, and Chiss look like NPC characters.

    P.S. while the Gran was changed using the argument of the way it looks like in a Star Wars campaign when there is no mechanical drawback really just means you think they look ugly even though clearly in the game they are very affable and how they look is rather common place.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2015-11-08 at 06:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    The problem is though it isn't just about being overpowered against the original races it is about the intention of power the game expects lower level characters to be. 5e kind of like 4e made race based enemies different than the races you selected so making higher powered races expects you to adjust encounters or even the creatures themselves in their difficulty.
    Point. But I feel like they've taken that into consideration almost. I think they're asking more for our help with balance among the races. OP, clarify?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    Additionally some of the races among the ones created here are clearly better than others. The Human(combining the variants), Wookie, Twi'lek, and Togruta make races like the Zabrak, Kel Dorian, and Chiss look like NPC characters.
    I actually like the combination of the variants. Wookie, Twi'lek and Togruta, all capture the lore of their races. Zabrak DOES need a buff. I don't know yet what that would be, but the DO need one. Kel Dorian is actually not that bad. They get Thaumaturgy, which covers a LOT of minor Force abilities (open/close doors, etc.) Detect Evil and Good (I feel a disturbance in the Force), and Blur, which capture their physical and mental training to be incredibly evasive. These all make sense for a race as inherently tied to the Force as the Kel Dorians. And, as currently written, it LOOKS like Chiss are still a work in progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    P.S. while the Gran was changed using the argument of the way it looks like in a Star Wars campaign when there is no mechanical drawback really just means you think they look ugly even though clearly in the game they are very affable and how they look is rather common place.
    Point taken. My apologies.
    Last edited by GandalfTheWhite; 2015-11-08 at 06:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite View Post
    Point. But I feel like they've taken that into consideration almost. I think they're asking more for our help with balance among the races. OP, clarify?



    I actually like the combination of the variants. Wookie, Twi'lek and Togruta, all capture the lore of their races. Zabrak DOES need a buff. I don't know yet what that would be, but the DO need one. Kel Dorian is actually not that bad. They get Thaumaturgy, which covers a LOT of minor Force abilities (open/close doors, etc.) Detect Evil and Good (I feel a disturbance in the Force), and Blur, which capture their physical and mental training to be incredibly evasive. These all make sense for a race as inherently tied to the Force as the Kel Dorians. And, as currently written, it LOOKS like Chiss are still a work in progress.



    Point taken. My apologies.
    Yes, we're looking mostly for help balancing out the races amongst each other. I do understand that we'll have to alter encounters to run these races, but I've already considered that (and I'm the DM who's most likely gonna run it.) The Chiss are indeed still a WIP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite View Post
    Point. But I feel like they've taken that into consideration almost. I think they're asking more for our help with balance among the races. OP, clarify?



    I actually like the combination of the variants. Wookie, Twi'lek and Togruta, all capture the lore of their races. Zabrak DOES need a buff. I don't know yet what that would be, but the DO need one. Kel Dorian is actually not that bad. They get Thaumaturgy, which covers a LOT of minor Force abilities (open/close doors, etc.) Detect Evil and Good (I feel a disturbance in the Force), and Blur, which capture their physical and mental training to be incredibly evasive. These all make sense for a race as inherently tied to the Force as the Kel Dorians. And, as currently written, it LOOKS like Chiss are still a work in progress.



    Point taken. My apologies.
    1. The problem is though he is deliberately disregarding the formula which means he needs to alter the level of play and probably the enemies specifically through out the campaign. It simply is easier.
    2. Of course who wouldn't love to get 6 attribute points, a feat, and a proficiency. The point is that it's a double race now.
    3. A base race shouldn't encompass the entirety of its lore. The Twi'lek gains way to many proficiencies gaining all of the base non-hostile social array. Not only are its other features rather bland it makes it far too intuitive for a skill monkey build. The Togruta gaining Tremorsense is a perception win card at this level on top of its proficiencies. The Wookie makes such a good monk dip because he can be dealing two attacks with 1d8's as a base as well as good fighting stats.
    4. The Kel Dorian is an iteration of the Tiefling model. Instead of a strong resistance though it gains a pretty significant drawback for the benefit of 5 ft worth of movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    4. The Kel Dorian is an iteration of the Tiefling model. Instead of a strong resistance though it gains a pretty significant drawback for the benefit of 5 ft worth of movement.
    I added another ability that the Kel Dorians have displayed before, and they now have resistance to Necrotic damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    I added another ability that the Kel Dorians have displayed before, and they now have resistance to Necrotic damage.
    I like it. This works, and is a great nod to the cannon.

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    We brought down the Wookie's Beastial Ferocity in terms of power.

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    I like what you've got so far. Please keep working on this. I've wanted to play a Star Wars game for a while, but hated the experience of the SWRPG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Requiemforlust View Post
    I like what you've got so far. Please keep working on this. I've wanted to play a Star Wars game for a while, but hated the experience of the SWRPG.
    Is the Star Wars RPG that bad?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    Is the Star Wars RPG that bad?
    Oh my God. Yes. It was pretty bloody awful :P

    (In my opinion)

    Keep on doin' what y'all're doin'. :D
    Last edited by Requiemforlust; 2015-11-10 at 01:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    Is the Star Wars RPG that bad?
    Quote Originally Posted by Requiemforlust View Post
    Oh my God. Yes. It was pretty bloody awful :P

    (In my opinion)

    Keep on doin' what y'all're doin'. :D
    I really don't think Saga edition was that bad, though the stuff before it was rather terrible. (I hear that the recent FFG games like Edge of the Empire are also quite good, so you might want to look at them for inspiration, Draco)
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Frost
    `This is just the beginning, Citizens! Today we have boiled a pot who's steam shall be seen across the entire galaxy. The Tea Must Flow, and it shall! The banner of the British Space Empire will be unfurled across a thousand worlds, carried forth by the citizens of Urn, and before them the Tea shall flow like a steaming brown river of shi-*cough*- shimmering moral fibre!`

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    Nitpick: Why does Togruta echolocation grant tremorsense? You're gonna need to either update the fluff or the mechanic. I forget how their senses are supposed to work in-universe.

    Bats' echolocation gives them blindsight that they lose if they are deafened. Maybe think about that as a base?
    Last edited by Goober4473; 2015-11-10 at 02:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goober4473 View Post
    Nitpick: Why does Togruta echolocation grant tremorsense? You're gonna need to either update the fluff or the mechanic. I forget how their senses are supposed to work in-universe.

    Bats' echolocation gives them blindsight that they lose if they are deafened. Maybe think about that as a base?
    I guess Blindsight might work better. It was my design partner who suggested Tremorsense.

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