Page 1 of 6 123456 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 166
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People
    A Guide to Sorcery

    Image by James Wolf Strehle

    ďGive a man a fire and heís warm for a day, but set fire to him and heís warm for the rest of his life.Ē

    -Terry Pratchett

    One of the more recent classes to appear in D&D, the Sorcerer is an arcanist whose innate magical talent allows them to manipulate the forces of nature. The class first appeared in the 3e Playerís Handbook as an alternative to the Vancian magic of the Wizard. While Wizards spend their days studying in stuffy old rooms, the Sorcerer weaves magic instinctively, utilizing pure force of personality. The class proved popular with those who liked the idea of burning everything in sight while avoiding the bookkeeping of wizardry. If the Wizard is a precise magical instrument, the Sorcerer is a precise mystic hammer.

    The Sorcerer is an excellent blaster, arguably the best, with solid utility to boot, an excellent addition to any party.

    Remember that this is an optimization guide. It is designed to allow readers to understand the strengths and advantages inherent to playing a Sorcerer. That said, if you have a fun idea that isn't terribly optimized, don't be afraid to put fun ahead of numbers. It's a game, after all.

    Color Scheme
    • This is freaking amazing! It provides many options, or will do one thing extremely well.
    • This is really good, but not quite phenomenal.
    • This is good. It will regularly be useful, though it won't provide many tactical choices.
    • Bad. It will be extremely rare that it's useful at all.


    • Occasionally very useful, but limited in scope or applicability.


    With the exception of Red abilities, most abilities will find some use and can be a lot of fun. Even situational abilities can find excellent use depending on the game. They're just not going to be the workhorse on your list.

    Table of Contents:
    1. EvilAnagramís School for Gifted Newbies
    2. A Dragon had a Baby with What???
    3. Sourcery
    4. By Your Powers Combined
    5. Personalize Your Bloodright
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2016-04-26 at 11:34 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People
    EvilAnagramís School for Gifted Newbies

    Image Copyright WotC

    Ability Scores
    • Strength: People who wield the forces of the universe as a cosmic sledgehammer donít need to pick up actual sledgehammers.
    • Dexterity: The one thing that can boost your AC! Also good for skills and saves, or if you ever want to attack with your hands, for some reason.
    • Constitution: Hit Points are good. So is making Concentration saves.
    • Intelligence: This can boost your Arcana. This can also get dumped.
    • Wisdom: Provides solid saves and skills, but not necessary. Wild Magic Sorcerers may feel obligated to dump it.
    • Charisma: All the magic you weave is woven through this stat. Always fail not to boost it.


    Remember, a Sorcerer knows few spells, but she can make the most of them.

    Class Features
    • Hit Dice: The d6 is the worst you can have.
    • Armor Proficiency: Youíll get nothing and like it! Fortunately, you can compensate pretty easily.
    • Weapon Proficiency: Not much. Hopefully, youíll never have to use them.
    • Saving Throws: CON is common, and itís what you need to maintain concentration. CHA is less common, but itís common enough to be useful.
    • Skills: You get all conversational skills, Insight, Arcana, and Religion.
    • Tools: Nothing. Nothing at all.
    • Spellcasting: Full Casting. You donít get Ritual Casting, and you get fewer spells known than any other full caster, closer to an Eldritch Knight than a Bard. However, you have the most cantrips our of all the classes and always have all your spells prepared. Besides, you get to alter your spells using your other features.
    • Flexible Casting: Recover spell slots! Or lose them to get more Sorcery Points, but why would you-
    • Metamagic: Oh, right, the thing that makes a Sorcerer amazing. I explore the various metamagics in detail below.
    • Ability Score Improvement: Obviously good for obvious reasons. The only reason it's not sky blue is that the Fighter gets more.


    A Brief Interlude on the Topic of Metamagic
    Metamagic is your most important class feature. Without it, Sorcerers are bottom tier casters with short spell lists and almost as few spells known as a Ranger. With it, they are powerful casters who can instinctively shape their spells to their own liking. Let's explore the uses of the various Metamagic options.

    • Careful Spell: A useful way to make AoEs more friendly to the party. A few spells, such as Web, will leave your enemies restrained as your allies lay down a beating with wild abandon. Most control spells will leave you completely unaffected, though damage AoEs like Fireball will simply deal half damage to your allies.
    • Distant Spell: It rare that the ability to attack at distance will matter overmuch, though the benefits will be quite useful on occasion. It's certainly nice for those spells with limited range. Witch Bolt, Poison Spray, and even Inisibility can benefit from this in the thick of battle.
    • Empowered Spell: Dealing more damage is always a good thing.
    • Extended Spell: This is a decent use of Metamagic that works especially well outside of combat. Charm and Invisibility are solid examples of spells that do exceptionally well with this.
    • Heightened Spell: Disadvantage is extremely useful when you're casting save spells, and when a spell is save-or-suck and you really want it to go off, this is definitely the metamagic to use. Banishment, Suggestion, and the Hold- and Dominate- lines of spells all work well with this.
    • Quickened Spell: Blasters can obviously make use of casting twice a round. More damage means more damage. Controllers can also benefit from Quickening, however. Many spells that offer battlefield control include the ability to use an action to do something on your turn. Watery Sphere, for example, lets you use an action to move the sphere. Sunburst, Eyebite, and the Investitures also provide action-based abilities, and Quicken will allow you to cast a spell during those turns.
    • Subtle Spell: It provides situational advantages that allow you to cast when you are Silenced or when being caught casting would be detrimental to your plans.
    • Twinned Spell: Double the number of creatures you affect with a spell. This is solid for damage dealers, but it's also an excellent choice for controllers with the Hold- and Dominate- lines of spells, or even Suggestion before Mass Suggestion comes into play.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People
    A Dragon had a Baby with What???

    Image by Will Murai

    In olden days, Sorcerers came from ancient bloodlines descended from dragonsÖ or more recent bloodlines if a gold got a little tipsy one night. These are the potential partners for those sloppily majestic philanderers.

    Player's Handbook
    • Hill Dwarf: A +2 to CON is nice, as are the other Dwarf features. Thereís just not a lot here for a sorcerer.
    • Mountain Dwarf: A Hill Dwarf that boosts a dump stat and gives you armor. This is actually a decent option for a melee build.
    • High Elf: Like all Elves, High Elves get Trance, proficiency with Perception checks, and a DEX boost. INT is unhelpful, and you have enough cantrips.
    • Wood Elf: Again, the basic Elf package is solid, but the Wood-specific features arenít terribly helpful. Itís a slight improvement on the High Elf.
    • Drow: Primary/secondary stat boosts pair nicely with a huge increase in your casting potential, superior Darkvision, and proficiency with a Rapier.
    • Lightfoot Halfling: Another perfect stat pairing grouped with awesome racial abilities. Luck alone is phenomenal.
    • Stout Halfling: Boost both secondary abilities, plus grab those sweet Halfling boosts.
    • Human: Plus one to every stat? Sure.
    • Variant Human: Feats are fun.
    • Dragonborn: STR adds nothing, but the rest is quite nice.
    • Forest Gnome: Gnome Cunning is awesome, and you get a DEX boost, but INT is your dump stat, and you donít get much use out of anything else. Magic save advantage is nice, though.
    • Rock Gnome: See above, but switch out DEX for CON.
    • Half-Elf: Did you want everything you need and a little more?
    • Half-Orc: Just bad. So very bad.
    • Tiefling: Boost your CHA, gain resistance, and boost your spellcasting! Absolutely great! The SCAG options are fine except for Feral and Winged.


    Dungeon Master's Guide
    • Eladrin: The basic elf package is solid.


    Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide
    • Duergar: I know youíre hurting for spells, but this is really better for melee Sorcerers.
    • Deep Gnome: DEX is good, but INT doesnít matter. The only saving grace is the spell saves.
    • Ghostwise Halfling (SCAG): Like other halflings, but worse at being a Sorcerer.


    Volo's Guide to Monsters
    • Aasimar: Charisma, Darkvision, resistances, healing, super awesome damaging abilities... yes.
    • Firbolg: These guys don't seem terribly interested in sorcery. Their abilities are all better for... anything else.
    • Goliath: If you wanted something that doesn't improve your sorcering at all, this is it.
    • Kenku: The DEX is nice, but everything else just makes you sneakier. If you want to be a super sneaky Sorcerer, this is the race.
    • Lizardfolk: This gives Draconic Sorcerers absolutely nothing. It gives Wild and Storm Sorcerers the 13+DEX AC.
    • Tabaxi: CHA and DEX are great, and the mobility features are pretty damn nice.
    • Triton: Tritons are great and you should feel great choosing a Triton. Extra spells and Charisma, baby!


    Volo's Monstrous Races
    • Bugbear: You're not a front line kind of guy, and Bugbears are.
    • Goblin: Both secondary abilities, extra damage, and some maneuverability. Nice.
    • Hobgoblin: Pretty nice if you want to make a melee build.
    • Kobold: Pack Tactics is really, really nice and will usually wash out the Sunlight Sensitivity, and you like Dexterity. Plus, you can Quicken a spell and use Grovel at the same time.
    • Orc: You know what doesn't offer you anything? This.
    • Yuan-Ti Pureblood: Charisma, extra spells, poison immunity and magic resistance? Yes, I do believe this is compatible.


    Elemental Evil
    • Aarakocra: Flight is fun, and you get a DEX boost, but there are better options.
    • Genasi: All the Genasi options provide a CON boost and some CON spells. This is generally a pretty good thing.

    Spoiler: Genasi Subtypes
    Show
    • Air Genasi: Both secondaries, plus Levitate. Not bad.
    • Earth Genasi: Not very good at all for a Sorcerer.
    • Fire Genasi: The only reason to go with this one over a Tiefling is to get Burning Hands outside your spells known.
    • Water Genasi: The acid resistance is nice, but Dragonborn get that while still having +2 CHA.


    Plane Shift Zendikar
    Holy crap, it's a Magic/D&D crossover. A lot of the races in this supplement don't fit the races in traditional D&D settings that well, so be sure to talk to your DM before utilizing them.
    • Human: About what you'd expect.
    • Kor: Ghostwise Halfling drops psychic ribbon for a climb speed.
    • Merfolk: I have a little saying: "If it boosts your primary casting stat and gives you extra magic, it's sky-blue." All Merfolk are sky-blue.
    • Vampire: The Charisma boost is nice, but the other features are not terribly important for a Sorcerer.
    • Goblin: A boost to Constitution and two resistances is going to be nice for any class.
    • Elf: Tajura at least get the Charisma boost, but Juraga and Mul Daya just aren't Sorcerer material.


    Unearthed Arcana supplements have provided a few new options:

    Eberron
    • Changeling: CHA and DEX with some Skill action and a free Disguise Self.
    • Shifters: Shifters tend to provide purely physical boosts. Some of these boosts can be helpful, and DEX is a secondary stat, but they tend to lag.

    Spoiler: Shifter Subtypes
    Show
    • Beasthide Shifter: Not terrible. You get a boost to both CON and DEX, at least.
    • Cliffwalk Shifter: No.
    • Longstride: No.
    • Longtooth Shifter: No.
    • Razorclaw Shifter: Not bad for a melee Draconic or Favored Soul. Otherwise, No.
    • Wildhunt Shifter: No.

    • Warforged: You donít need STR, and AC is less important for a caster than people seem to think.


    Waterborne
    • Minotaur: Really not any good for us.
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2017-01-05 at 11:51 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People
    Sourcery

    Image by DevBurmak

    In 5e, the source of your power does not have to be your momís wild night in college. You can certainly still go with the Draconic origin, but there are also Wild Sorcerers, who act as conduits for the very forces of chaos, and the Stormborn who channel the raw destructive force of the storm. There is also the official homebrew of Favored Soul, whose power is derived from the blessings of their patron god.

    Basically you options are 1/32 dragon, Scarlet Witch, Storm, or Jesus.

    Draconic Bloodline
    Combining a strong defense with a strong offense, the original origin is still a favorite.
    • Dragon Ancestor: Your most important feature, as your ancestor has a strong effect on your later features. Still, the actual abilities this feature imparts are quite minor.
    • Draconic Resilience: VeryÖ resilient. It makes it possible to build a melee Sorcerer, and it makes it easier if you like to stick to range.
    • Elemental Affinity: Oh, look, itís the reason to pick this option. +CHA to spells is awesome, even if itís limited to your affinity. The resistance is just gravy.
    • Dragon Wings: It saves you concentration and a spell slot. Flight is a pretty sweet bonus, but the cool factor is even sweeter. ďOh, these old things? I just had Ďem lying around.Ē
    • Draconic Presence: Not terrible, but not terribly impressive either. The fact that it specifies ďhostileĒ creatures limits its potential use, by RAW if not RAI.


    Wild Magic
    One of my personal favorite classes for the sheer ridiculocity, this sorcerer channels pure chaos to vanquish his foes, and possibly their foes as well. This is likely the most contentious archetype in the PHB because it has a 0.1% chance to drop a fireball on your head. This can be mitigated by picking a Tiefling or Fire Genasi.
    • Wild Magic Surge: A lot of focus is put on the miniscule chance that youíre going to kill the entire party before they can deal with a fireball. They forget that you can also maximize your damage, cast an extra spell, or turn yourself into a plant! The basic strategy for mitigating negative effects on the party is to be a fair distance from the party. Melee Wild Sorcerers can keep all negative effects concentrated on the enemy.
    • Tides of Chaos: Solid ability that gives you the chance to gain advantage on any check at the cost of risking another surge. Since you picked this class because you love surges, this is a good thing.
    • Bend Luck: Excellent ability. If you know your allyís AC, can approximate the difficulty of a check, or want to give someone a little boost, spend a couple sorcery points and do it. It can even keep your enemies from making saves against your spells!
    • Controlled Chaos: Double your chance not to harm yourself and everyone around you!
    • Spell Bombardment: A conditional, minor boost to spell damage. ThatísÖ less than Draconic Sorcerers get at level six. If this was an earlier feature, it would be fine, but the ability to occasionally add a single die of damage is completely underwhelming at level 18.


    Storm Sorcery
    A brand new, super official sorcerous origin that marries the desire to blast things to pieces with the desire to have cool glowy eyes! You can find it in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (SCAG).
    • Wind Speaker: Like Dragon Ancestor, itís not terribly important, but can prove useful on occasion. unlike Dragon Ancestor, it has no bearing on future abilities.
    • Tempestuous Magic: You get to fly when you cast a spell. Thatís a decent boost to maneuverability.
    • Heart of the Storm: Finally! This ability allows you to deal a nice piece of damage while encouraging your enemies to stay away from you. Combos well with Booming Blade to make moving away from you just as painful as staying nearby.
    • Storm Guide: Itís not bad. Itís just really, really situational. If youíre in a hurricane, itís downright OP. If youíre dealing with air elementals, you might tear them apart. If thereís a light breeze, itís useless.
    • Stormís Fury: Again, make it very unappealing to be near you, giving you a great reason to move close to the enemy.
    • Wind Soul: This is easily the best level 18 ability of any published book.


    Favored Soul
    This is not an officially published class, nor will it be allowed in the Adventurerís League, nor any other official game. It is a homebrew published on Wizardsí website to show what Jesus would be like if he wielded a mace. You can find it in the Unearthed Arcana "Modifying Classes."
    • Chosen of the Gods: Other sorcerers get to learn a language, but this guy gets bonus spells in a spell-starved class.
    • Bonus Proficiencies: Perfect for anyone looking to spam Booming Blade.
    • Extra Attack: Always good to have if you plan on attacking.
    • Divine Wings: As with Dragon wings, but less cool.
    • Power of the Chosen: Heal yourself when you cast a spell. This is a great rider.


    Shadow Soul
    Do you wish the Sorcerer was just a little more emo? Even better, a lot more emo? Well, have I got a class for you! Like the Favored Soul, the Shadow Sorcerer is an official homebrew not currently allowed in official games. Shadow Sorcerers are touched by the fell and shadowy energies of the Shadowfell. This makes them shadowy... and fell. It's found in the Unearthed Arcana "Light, Dark, Underdark!" - the UA with the worst name so far.
    • Eyes of the Dark: Darkvision's okay, but 1 SP for Darkness is neat! And seeing through that darkness is better!
    • Strength of the Grave: Less awesome than the Orc feature, but still cool.
    • Hound of Ill Omen: Basically summon the baby Kitty Pride had with a Dire Wolf and let it chomp on a guy while you blast him. Oh, and he's at disadvantage against your spells. And it only costs 3 SP.
    • Shadow Walk: Easily as good as the Shadow Monk's ability.
    • Shadow Form: Be a ghost. Murder things. Don't worry about damage.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People
    By Your Powers Combined

    Image by Jason Chan

    Spells take a very long time to rate. I currently have Cantrips and spell levels 3 and 7-9 rated.

    4e Wild Magic Sorcerers may mourn the loss of Chaos Bolt. It was a ridiculous spell, but we loved you well.

    Spoiler: Cantrips
    Show
    • Acid Splash: Not terrible. No Twin, but it's nice to get a cantrip that melds with Draco-damage. Save damage cantrips don't sit well with me, though. If this was just an attack roll, it would be great against demons, but it ain't and so it isn't.
    • Blade Ward: The only reason it's not red is that you can Quicken it and still cast another spell. Melee Sorcerers might find use for it.
    • Booming Blade (SCAG): If you have a decent melee, this is a perfect cantrip for you. Quicken and Twin, and the way it combines with other spells make this pure awesome. Melee Sorcerers will want either this or Greenflame Blade, if not both.
    • Chill Touch: Decent damage with good riders, plus Twinnable. Also, gotta love the image of Thing grabbing your enemy. I can feel it.
    • Control Flames (EE): Entirely situational.
    • Create Bonfire (EE): A save cantrip, but it works with Draconic damage and can block choke points. Works well with Pyrotechnics and Quicken. (Concentration)
    • Dancing Lights: It uses concentration when Light doesn't. (Concentration)
    • Fire Bolt: Cantrip damage doesn't get much better, and it works with Draconic damage.
    • Friends: Make yourself some enemies. Disguise Self can get around the drawback, and Changeling Sorcerers can abuse it all day. (Concentration)
    • Frostbite (EE): It's a save, but you can Twin it, it stacks with Draco-damage, and its rider is alright.
    • Green-Flame Blade(SCAG): Similar to Booming Blade, but works with Draconic Sorcerers and can't be Twinned.
    • Gust (EE): There's situational, and then there's so situational it's useless. Mage Hand and the Push action replicate its useful features.
    • Light: A true classic. If you don't have Darkvision, you'll want this.
    • Lightning Lure (SCAG): Melee and Draconic Sorcerers will be able to Quicken and cheese the crap out of this one. Twin Lightning Lure+Quicken Green-Flame Blade seems like a good combo to me. Of course, if you aren't melee, this loses some luster.
    • Mage Hand: Situational.
    • Mending: Situational.
    • Message: Situational.
    • Minor Illusion: Arguably the most useful cantrip, so long as you have imagination.
    • Mold Earth (EE): I have been convinced that while this might not see use every day, it will certainly be useful.
    • Poison Spray: Very damaging, but with a save. Still, it works with Draco-damage.
    • Prestidigitation: I don't know if it's ever useful, but it's fun.
    • Ray of Frost: Basic attack with an okay rider, works with Twin. Solid spell for any Draconic Sorcerer with a Cold affinity.
    • Shape Water (EE): Situational. At least the freezing could potentially be useful.
    • Shocking Grasp: Great for any Sorcerer who doesn't want to be in melee, works for Draconic riders.
    • Sword Burst (SCAG): An okay burst in cantrip form, but has no riders. Still, force cantrips are rare.
    • Thunderclap (EE): Like Sword Burst, but loud.
    • True Strike: Garbage, even with Metamagic.(Concentration)


    Spoiler: 1st Level Spells
    Show
    • Burning Hands: Good damage in a small area, and it works with Draconic damage.
    • Catapult (EE): Deal a good deal of bludgeoning damage. Plus, you can murder your enemies with pieces of your other enemies.
    • Charm Person: Better than Friends in that the target is not necessarily immediately hostile. It's situational, but the situation is common and its applicability is nearly limitless.
    • Chromatic Orb: Excellent damage in any type you wish. Works with Draconic and Storm abilities.
    • Color Spray: Blind is an okay condition. This is an okay spell. Works well if you've got a Rogue in the party.
    • Comprehend Languages: Totally situational.
    • Detect Magic: Also situational, but it's usefulness goes pretty damn far. You get a lot of investigative muscle out of this one spell. (Concentration)
    • Disguise Self: Combine with Friends for absolute insanity. A solid spell.
    • Earth Tremor (EE): Really bad. I don't know why you would take this spell. I'm not sure I would want it as a cantrip.
    • Expeditious Retreat: A decent escape spell, but ranged characters tend not to need mobility as much as martials do.
    • False Life: 6.5 average temp HP is... not great. If you keep finding yourself in melee, you might want to take it.
    • Feather Fall: Save your party from dying. If you're prone to falling off cliffs, take this.
    • Fog Cloud: Obscure an area. It's a great spell if you're more concerned with giving your allies advantages than dealing damage.
    • Ice Knife (EE): Reminds me a bit of Hail of Thorns. Works with Draco-damage, and it's a solid AoE at this level.
    • Jump: You get to jump a max of your speed. This is kind of terrible since you can always find another way without using one of your spells known to occasionally jump a bit farther.
    • Mage Armor: Bad for Draconic Sorcerers. Great for everyone else.
    • Magic Missile: Auto-hit damage that scales nicely.
    • Ray of Sickness: A decent attack, you can twin it, and it works with Draconic damage. The poison rider is pretty neat. It could interrupt an enemy's offensive.
    • Shield: Completely awesome, and everyone knows it.
    • Silent Image: An improvement over Minor Illusion, but it competes for spells known and uses a spell slot. It's a perfectly decent spell to take, and a must if you want to be an illusionist.
    • Sleep: Early on, it's awesome. No save, and it puts enemies down faster than anything else. It loses power fairly quickly though. Switch it out around level 5.
    • Thunderwave: The damage isn't bad, and it works with Storm and Draconic riders. A decent up-close spell with an okay effect.
    • Witch Bolt: This used to be a complete trap option. With Booming Blade, you can Quicken Witch Bolt and then lay down a Booming Blade, so they'll hurt if they move and they'll hurt if they don't. You can actually build a decent 4e-style defender between those two spells if the dip into Fighter or Paladin. Outside of that build, it's still a bad option. Works with Storm and Draconic riders. (Concentration)


    Spoiler: 2nd Level Spells
    Show
    • Agnazzar's Scorcher (EE): Deal decent damage to up to six people, and it works with Draconic damage.
    • Alter Self: Advanced Disguise Self with secondary bonuses that aren't going to matter most of the time. (Concentration)
    • Blindness/Deafness: An okay debuff that you can Twin, but the target can roll for it at the end of each turn.
    • Blur: Nice little buff for its level, but the concentration kills it. (Concentration)
    • Cloud of Daggers: A tiny AoE. You could block a doorway, I guess? (Concentration)
    • Crown of Madness: If it could move before attacking, this would be great. It cannot, and it is terrible. (Concentration)
    • Darkness: Blind your enemies with more reliability than Blindness. (Concentration)
    • Darkvision: You probably already have Darkvision. If you don't, you can have a torch.
    • Detect Thoughts: Situationally useful. excellent when information gathering. (Concentration)
    • Dust Devil (EE): Some crowd control that can deal a bit of damage. Moving it as a bonus action is nice. (Concentration)
    • Earthbind (EE): Pull something out of the air at an extremely slow speed. The same speed as Feather Fall, actually. (Concentration)
    • Enhance Ability: A good buff to help your buddies out when not in combat.
    • Enlarge/Reduce: One day an pretty good buff married a pretty good debuff. Their child was decent. It's a solid boost to your Fighter, and you can Twin it to debuff an enemy at the same time. (Concentration)
    • Gust of Wind: You can probably use this to good effect, but it's not going to be something you break out every day. (Concentration)
    • Hold Person: Solid control against one or two enemies, but it's pretty limited in the number of enemies you can use it on. (Concentration)
    • Invisibility: Decent for a little stealth or to help the Assassin get that opening Sneak Attack. (Concentration)
    • Knock: Open a door very, very loudly.
    • Levitate: Fly in a very limited way. (Concentration)
    • Maximillian's Earthen Grasp (EE): Bigby's little brother. The damage is okay, but it's great at keeping your enemy in check. (Concentration)
    • Mirror Image: An excellent buff for any Sorcerer, and without concentration.
    • Misty Step: A little baby teleport that costs next to nothing and you can cast as long as you can speak. Very solid.
    • Phantasmal Force: An excellent illusion that's extremely widely applicable, and it takes the use of an enemy's action to see through it. (Concentration)
    • Pyrotechnics (EE): Quickened Create Bonfire gives you a fire, and this spell lets you blind a lot of people with that fire. This might even make Blindness/Deafness obsolete.
    • Scorching Ray: Three attacks that work with your Draconic damage and can be spread out or concentrated as you wish.
    • See Invisibility: In certain circumstances, it's precisely what you need. In all other circumstances, it's useless.
    • Shatter: A decent AoE that works with Heart of the Storm and can destroy nonmagical objects.
    • Snilloc's Snowball Swarm (EE): A small AoE that deals okay damage and works with Draconic damage.
    • Spider Climb: Climb like a spider. A decent movement buff. (Concentration)
    • Suggestion: I love this spell. It's my favorite. It's a beefed up Charm that compells a certain course of action with no drawbacks. I couldn't ask for more. (Concentration)
    • Warding Wind (EE): A decent buff for yourself that blocks a good deal of effects while imposing disadvantage on ranged attacks. It won't only be applicable, but when it is it's worthwhile. (Concentration)
    • Web: Solid crowd control over a large area. Careful lets you gang up on the restrained creatures in the web without worrying about your people getting caught in the webbing. (Concentration)


    Spoiler: 3rd Level Spells
    Show
    • Blink: A Wild Mage might love the random chance, and a short-range teleport is still quite nice, but burning a third level spell slot with a 50% chance of nothing happening each round is kind of lame.
    • Clairvoyance: It's a nice spying spell, but it's very situational.
    • Counterspell: Keep your enemy from casting a spell. Anyone who can take this should take it at some point.
    • Daylight: Dispelling Darkness is cool. Otherwise, it's 3rd level Light.
    • Dispel Magic: Oddly enough, it's easier to dispel higher level spells. A solid choice.
    • Erupting Earth (EE): Less damage than Fireball, but magical Bludgeoning is never resisted. The rider is okay.
    • Fear: Forced movement over a large area that lets you make op attacks. Quite good.
    • Fireball: Deal a ton of damage to a lot of people, plus the Draconic rider.
    • Flame Arrows (EE): A decent buff for an ally, and it still works with the Draconic rider. 12d6 damage could be worth concentration and a 3rd level slot. Can be Twinned if you have two archers.
    • Fly: You fly. It's quite a nice buff, especially if you're facing a troll who can't shoot at you.
    • Gaseous Form: Good for infiltration. That's about it.
    • Haste: Extra Actions and extra speed. An extremely good spell that you can twin.
    • Hypnotic Pattern: Incapacitate a large number of enemies, completely changing the battlefield. One of very few save-or-suck spells in this edition.
    • Lightning Bolt: Fireball with Lightning. Works for Draconic and Storm riders.
    • Major Image: Some significant boosts over previous illusions, but it's once again competing for your very limited spells known.
    • Melf's Minute Meteors (EE): More total damage than Fireball, but the enemy gets more chances to save from it. Arguably worth it.
    • Protection from Energy: A decent buff, but it's usually not the Sorcerer's job to handle this.
    • Sleet Storm: Create a massive area with a slew of debuffs. It's okay.
    • Slow: The defensive counterpart to Haste. It's a solid spell, but Haste is arguably a better use of concentration.
    • Stinking Cloud: Obscure creatures with no save required, and repeatedly deny turns to your enemies.
    • Tongues: Situational.
    • Wall of Water (EE): Some crowd control, but it's not terribly powerful.
    • Water Breathing: Completely situational.
    • Water Walk: Similarly situational.


    Spoiler: 4th Level Spells
    Show
    • Banishment: A true save-or-suck, with the potential for permanence. (Concentration)
    • Blight: A very solid spell with Twin. Probably the best spell against plant creatures.
    • Confusion: Turn denial in an AoE. The randomness hurts it a little. (Concentration)
    • Dimension Door: The best teleport available at this level.
    • Dominate Beast: Sure, if a T-Rex shows up it's great, but at your level most beasts won't be worth dominating. (Concentration)
    • Greater Invisibility: Like Invisibility, but less balanced. Solid pick. (Concentration)
    • Ice Storm: Drop a load of Ice cups on an area. Decent damage and creates difficult terrain, but there are more damaging spells. Works with Draconic riders.
    • Polymorph: Typically, spells that have multiple threads dedicated to them are either terrible or broken. Polymorph is arguably broken. (Concentration)
    • Stoneskin: A perfectly good buff, but maybe not the best use of your concentration. (Concentration)
    • Storm Sphere (EE): A bit like Ice Storm, but it uses concentration and includes a once/turn attack. It works with Storm and Draconic riders. (Concentration)
    • Vitriolic Sphere (EE): It deals the most damage at this level, it works with Draconic damage, and it's an AoE.
    • Wall of Fire: Decent control combined with decent damage. A decent spell. Works with Draco-damage. (Concentration)
    • Watery Sphere(EE): Amazing control and a whole lot of potential. Restraining up to four people is awesome and it's easy to drop them off a cliff. Very fun. (Concentration)


    Spoiler: 5th Level Spells
    Show
    • Animate Objects: This is a ridiculous spell. I love it. Subtly bring the silverware to life to assassinate the tyrant king and fight off the guards. (Concentration)
    • Cloudkill: Cause a decent amount of damage in a large area and force numerous saves against it. It's worth pointing out that anyone in the area you select will take damage when you cast it and again when their turn starts. (Concentration)
    • Cone of Cold: Destructive, affects a massive area, and works with Draconic riders. It's only drawback is that the area might be too large, which is a drawback worth having.
    • Control Winds (EE): The disadvantage and knocking fliers prone is fun, but the Updraft benefits are strictly worse than those of lower level spells. (Concentration)
    • Creation: Situational, though potentially abusable.
    • Dominate Person: The only drawback is the limit to what can be targeted. Twins. (Concentration)
    • Hold Monster: Keep something from acting, or Twin it and keep two things from acting. (Concentration)
    • Immolation (EE): The damage isn't great, but it can be great against a low DEX enemy, and the visual amuses me. Twins and works with Draconic damage. (Concentration)
    • Insect Plague: The damage is okay, but not great, and it doesn't work with any riders. However, it can be useful for battlefield control. (Concentration)
    • Seeming: No concentration cost, and you get to change the appearances of as many people as you want. You can even alter an unwilling character. Situational, but widely applicable.
    • Telekinesis: Hold Monster, with the additional ability to move the enemy around. Unfortunately, it provides a lot of opportunities to save. (Concentration)
    • Teleportation Circle: Solid transportation. Learning it certainly shortens your travelling time.
    • Wall of Stone: Solid control merged with situational benefits. (Concentration)


    Spoiler: 6th Level Spells
    Show
    • Arcane Gate: A solid teleportation spell with some interesting potential, but it's competing with a lot of solid spells. (Concentration)
    • Chain Lightning: An excellent spell that deals solid damage to multiple targets and works with both Draconic and Storm abilities.
    • Circle of Death: It deals the same damage as a Fireball, but in a larger radius. Not terrible, but I expect a bit more from a sixth level spell.
    • Disintegrate: Deal a massive amount of force damage, and Twin it.
    • Eyebite: You can inflict a handful of different status effects that you could also inflict with lower level spells. (Concentration)
    • Globe of Invulnerability: A massive debuff against any spells that come near you. (Concentration)
    • Investiture of Flame (EE): Solid defenses with some offensive capabilities. The damage isn't good, but you can repeat it as often as you like. It works quite well with a Draconic Sorcerer. (Concentration)
    • Investiture of Ice (EE): As above, but cold and fire are reversed. (Concentration)
    • Investiture of Stone (EE): Quite decent in a melee, though you'll have to Quicken any spells you use while it's active. (Concentration)
    • Investiture of Wind (EE): Fly, and while you're flying you can inflict disadvantage the only attacks that can be made against you. Plus, drop some crowd control as an action. Not bad. (Concentration)
    • Mass Suggestion: Tell a crowd what to do. Really, anything you can think of will work. This is a spell that can completely disrupt an encounter or swing the story in a completely new direction.
    • Move Earth: Situational, but extremely useful. Collapse a wall or a tower with ease. If it could affect stone, this spell would be amazing. (Concentration)
    • Sunbeam: For ten rounds you can deal okay damage and blind someone as an action. The damage is decent, and you can cast a Quickened spell while still shooting a ray each round. (Concentration)
    • True Seeing: It has quite a few benefits, but you might be hurting for spells known at this point.


    Spoiler: 7th Level Spells
    Show
    • Delayed Blast Fireball: Sooooo much fun. It's tremendously open to abuse, and the damage is fantastic. Plus, Draconic CHA bonus. No Twinning, unfortunately. (Concentration)
    • Etherealness: Excellent scouting spell, plus an automatic "Eff your prison."
    • Finger of Death: Decent single-target damage for this level, plus a zombie. Oh, and you can Twin it. Make a permanent zombie army killing peasants if you really want to.
    • Fire Storm: Ten 10' fire AoEs in one spell. This is how you burn down a city.
    • Plane Shift: Good. Very good. But not necessarily the best choice for a Sorcerer. You have very few spells known, and this one is situational. The debuff is great, but it has two gates to success.
    • Prismatic Spray: The randomness hurts its applicability, though Wild Mages might love it more for that very reason.
    • Reverse Gravity: Why are there so many good spells on this list? Other lists aren't this good. This one lets you immediately disrupt a large area, potentially dealing massive damage as you do so. (Concentration)
    • Teleport: A great teleportation spell. Instantly escape to anywhere you know. Still, this is a very competitive slot to fill.


    Spoiler: 8th Level Spells
    Show
    • Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting(EE): Ew. Effective, but ew.
    • Dominate Monster: Like Dominate Person, but works against any creature. Can be Twinned. (Concentration)
    • Earthquake: Oh, you wanted to create a bonafide natural disaster? Well, you got it. Debuffs, structural damage, and damage abound.
    • Incendiary Cloud: Decent damage, especially for fire-based Draconic Sorcerers. More importantly, its an AoE with a no-save debuff. The very best of the "Cloud" line of spells. (Concentration)
    • Power Word Stun: Guaranteed chance to prevent at least a single round of actions, plus you can Twin it.
    • Sunburst: Decent AoE with a rider and a rarely-resisted damage. I like it.


    Spoiler: 9th Level Spells
    Show
    • Gate: 5,000 GP to open a gate to anywhere instantly? Not bad at all. (Concentration)
    • Meteor Swarm: Kill everything.
    • Power Word Kill: Do you really want to waste your ninth level slot on something that has less than 100 HP? I suppose that you could Twin it to kill two things with less than 100 HP, but it's still not on the same level as your other options.
    • Time Stop: If you can't think of a way to abuse this, you should go back to Call of Duty. That said, Concentration and the smaller spell list limit the amount of fun to be had.
    • Wish: Broken. Like, completely broken. Your DM should probably forbid this because it's that broken.
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2017-02-11 at 11:47 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People
    Personalize Your Bloodright

    Image by 3nrique on DeviantArt

    Spoiler: Multiclassing
    Show
    • Barbarian : Being unable to cast makes this pretty bad for a caster.
    • Bard: Pick up Dissonant Whispers and Bardic Inspiration, using the same casting ability.
    • Cleric: A couple domains offer enough ancillary benefits that one level might be worth taking, but be sure to pick as few spells that rely on WIS as possible. And why do you have a 13 WIS?
    • Druid: Doesn't offer anything to a Sorcerer
    • Fighter: It offers a lot to any Sorcerer who wants to put some effort into melee. You can build quite a decent tank with a Fighter/Sorcerer.
    • Monk: There is nothing that this offers.
    • Paladin: This is an excellent multiclass. Aside from melee Sorcerer builds, plenty of people like the idea of smiting with full caster spell slots.
    • Ranger: If you want a martial dip, go with Fighter or Paladin.
    • Rogue: Sneak attack is fun, as is Expertise. A decent option.
    • Warlock: Pick up Eldritch Blast and a couple Short Rest casting slots, maybe a couple invocations, then leave and don't look back.
    • Wizard: Don't cast spells with your dump stat.



    Spoiler: Feats
    Show
    • Alert: Going before the enemy is rarely a bad thing.
    • Athlete: If you want to be better at a skill, go with this.
    • Actor:I know what you're thinking, "But I'm already good at CHA-skill checks!" Be better. Dominate them.
    • Charger: No. Just cast a spell.
    • Crossbow Expert: I can't imagine why a Sorcerer would need a crossbow.
    • Defensive Duelist: Use Shield instead.
    • Dual Wielder: Even if you're a melee build, this will be a bad idea.
    • Dungeon Delver: I'm not opposed to it, but I generally think that people with higher hit dice than d6s should handle trap removal.
    • Durable: Perfectly respectable, as the Dowager might say. ...sorry, the fiance has Downton on.
    • Elemental Adept: Fantastic, especially for a Draconic or Storm Sorcerer, though some Favored Soul domains would love this.
    • Grappler:
    • Great Weapon Master: A melee Sorcerer should probably focus more on DEX than STR, though if your first level was Paladin you might be able to swing it.
    • Healer: Perfectly fine.
    • Heavily Armored: That's a two feat tax.
    • Heavy Armor Master: Three feat tax.
    • Inspiring Leader: You've got the Charisma for it.
    • Keen Mind: Situational, but abusable, and it only costs a single ability point.
    • Lightly Armored: Decent AC boost if you're not Draconic.
    • Linguist: In my experience, knowing the right language at the right time can save your ass.
    • Lucky: Always worth it.
    • Mage Slayer: Not how you join a magical metal band. Better for slaying mages than being one.
    • Magic Initiate: Maybe a better way to get Eldritch Blast than dipping a level.
    • Martial Adept: I don't think I would take this as a Sorcerer.
    • Medium Armor Master: It would take an odd confluence of events to take up this feat, but I think it's perfectly acceptable if you find yourself with the opportunity. It's certainly nothing to pursue. Favored Souls like it, though.
    • Mobile: A decent feat to take. It could keep you healthier.
    • Moderately Armored: Not entirely necessary most of the time.
    • Mounted Combatant: If you find yourself frequently mounted, zap monsters from horseback.
    • Observant: Perfectly good feat. Nothing else to be said.
    • Polearm Master: It will be rare that this will be a feat you wish to take.
    • Resilient: Frequently an excellent feat to take.
    • Ritual Caster: You're not a ritual caster. This will make you one. I approve.
    • Savage Attacker: You'll typically only attack in melee once a turn. Not a terrible feat.
    • Sentinel: Decent for a tanky Storm build.
    • Sharpshooter: Spell Sniper. You want Spell Sniper.
    • Shield Master: You need a free hand to cast. If you're a melee Sorc, and you have access to Shields somehow, this is a maybe.
    • Skilled: A perfectly good feat.
    • Skulker: Personally, I would take another feat. Many other feats, in fact. But this one is a passably nice feat.
    • Spell Sniper: A neat little blaster cantrip.
    • Tavern Brawler: I believe I mentioned before that those born with the power to reshape the universe through sheer force of will don't need to use their fists.
    • Tough: Hit points are good.
    • War Caster: Quite nice, especially if you prefer melee.
    • Weapon Master: Almost mandatory if you want a decent melee build.


  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Vemynal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Would love if you'd rate the Eladrin & Aasimar races outlined in the DMG; also the Unearth Arcana for the Underdark book has a Shadow Bloodline for Sorcerer that looks pretty neat.

    There's also a slew of racial changes/alternative bonuses brought up in the SCAG.
    Last edited by Vemynal; 2015-11-10 at 11:49 AM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Avy by spectralphoenix

    Sammael, Aasimar Blackguard

    Avys by Neoseph07

    Astaroth, Human Lich Dragon Disciple


    Jophiel, Gray Elf Mystic Theurge

    <--Naamah Vampire Illusionist

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Earth
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Twinning single target buff spells like polymorph is great because it's double the effect for one concentration on a character with con save prof.

    I also combine quicken spell with things that take up my action like using telekinesis from round to round.

    Heighten spell on dominate can be devastating.

    I'm excited to see how you rate the sorcerer spell list given what being a sorcerer means for them.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    Twinning single target buff spells like polymorph is great because it's double the effect for one concentration on a character with con save prof.

    I also combine quicken spell with things that take up my action like using telekinesis from round to round.

    Heighten spell on dominate can be devastating.

    I'm excited to see how you rate the sorcerer spell list given what being a sorcerer means for them.
    That's part of the reason I'm taking my time on the spells: you have to account for metamagic when you rate them. It's simply too central to the casting ability of Sorcerers to overlook it, so you have to consider how each metamagic will affect it.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2014

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    pretty sure you didn't mean for half-orc to be blue. based on text, purple or red were your intention (probably red).

    can't say i agree with your valuation on dwarf... medium armour isn't half bad, and neither is +1 HP per level. it isn't amazing, but i would consider them to be black; not great, but you're not working against yourself. obviously, they're no half-elf, or even a halfling, but i'd say it's about on-par with the elves.

    your intro paragraph in sourcery has a sentence that obviously got cut off btw.

    bend luck should be sky blue. it's a reaction to use, and is just about the best thing on the extremely short list of things that can give enemies a penalty on a saving throw (you could argue for arcane trickster's ability, and the UA shadow sorcerer's dog being better, i suppose).

    i would give some screen time to the melee wild magic sorcerer. if your DM makes extensive use of surges, there's something to be said for being in the middle of your enemies and a nice distance away from your own squishies; a lot of the surge effects are harmful and centered on the sorcerer.

    on a side note, i would bump careful spell to sky blue for a control sorcerer (or for a sorcerer in the right party; if your front line is a monk, a fighter/rogue, and a paladin with shield expertise, you can drop fireball on them all day after a certain level and they won't even get singed, but that's more about party optimization than character optimization). there's something to be said for being able to create a party-friendly web that the fighter can stroll through as if it was a paved road while your enemies are in constant danger of the restrained status, which is quite nasty for anyone who either wants to get into melee or is being forced into dealing with melee.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    maybe also do the Shadow Sorcerer?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    pretty sure you didn't mean for half-orc to be blue. based on text, purple or red were your intention (probably red).

    your intro paragraph in sourcery has a sentence that obviously got cut off btw.
    Fixed, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    can't say i agree with your valuation on dwarf... medium armour isn't half bad, and neither is +1 HP per level. it isn't amazing, but i would consider them to be black; not great, but you're not working against yourself. obviously, they're no half-elf, or even a halfling, but i'd say it's about on-par with the elves.
    That's worth looking at. The more I look at it, the more I think the new melee options that have opened up make resilience worth pursuing. Still, there are a lot of ways for Sorcerers to bump their AC, and you're giving up other bonuses to pick them.

    Keep in mind that purple isn't badt's situational. You can think of builds that would work well with dwarves, but they aren't necessarily the optimal path.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    bend luck should be sky blue. it's a reaction to use, and is just about the best thing on the extremely short list of things that can give enemies a penalty on a saving throw (you could argue for arcane trickster's ability, and the UA shadow sorcerer's dog being better, i suppose).
    I'm on the fence about this one. I nearly made it sky-blue, myself, but I don't know that the 1d4 can compete with Bardic Inspiration, which fills a similar niche.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    i would give some screen time to the melee wild magic sorcerer. if your DM makes extensive use of surges, there's something to be said for being in the middle of your enemies and a nice distance away from your own squishies; a lot of the surge effects are harmful and centered on the sorcerer.
    Noted. I'll explore that at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    on a side note, i would bump careful spell to sky blue for a control sorcerer (or for a sorcerer in the right party; if your front line is a monk, a fighter/rogue, and a paladin with shield expertise, you can drop fireball on them all day after a certain level and they won't even get singed, but that's more about party optimization than character optimization). there's something to be said for being able to create a party-friendly web that the fighter can stroll through as if it was a paved road while your enemies are in constant danger of the restrained status, which is quite nasty for anyone who either wants to get into melee or is being forced into dealing with melee.
    I think it's an excellent ability, and those are solid uses of it but I don't think it's on par with Quickened, Twinned, or Heightened spells.

    Thanks for the feedback!

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2014

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    bend luck can target enemy saves. bardic inspiration can't. it isn't as good at buffing skill checks and such, but the sorcerer can be an extremely save-reliant class, and it can even combine with other classes that rely on saving throws. you get to wait until after you know if they would have made it on their own, too.

    for dwarves: good con, poison resistance, and extra HP or more AC are not really very situational. you may not need it as much on a sorcerer as on a fighter, but they're still great abilities to have. again, not necessarily the best, but i would still consider them to be middle of the road. they're getting good abilities that are consistently useful... they just aren't getting great abilities that are always useful.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Well argued. It's changed.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    TheTeaMustFlow's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Perfidious Albion

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    I haven't read the guide yet, but that is one of the best titles I've ever seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Frost
    `This is just the beginning, Citizens! Today we have boiled a pot who's steam shall be seen across the entire galaxy. The Tea Must Flow, and it shall! The banner of the British Space Empire will be unfurled across a thousand worlds, carried forth by the citizens of Urn, and before them the Tea shall flow like a steaming brown river of shi-*cough*- shimmering moral fibre!`

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTeaMustFlow View Post
    I haven't read the guide yet, but that is one of the best titles I've ever seen.
    I live to please

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    DC baby!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Well this is perfect!! This Sunday i just got to level 5 with my dragon sorcerer. I cam here looking for advice on what spells to take now. Can't wait to see what you recommend!

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by DizzyWood View Post
    Well this is perfect!! This Sunday i just got to level 5 with my dragon sorcerer. I cam here looking for advice on what spells to take now. Can't wait to see what you recommend!
    I can help you out right now.

    Haste will be useful if you like to melee or like to help your martial buddies. Counterspell is always useful, and any spell that matches you Elemental Affinity will be great. Which Dragon Ancestor did you choose?
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2015-11-10 at 03:33 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Vemynal View Post
    Would love if you'd rate the Eladrin & Aasimar races outlined in the DMG; also the Unearth Arcana for the Underdark book has a Shadow Bloodline for Sorcerer that looks pretty neat.

    There's also a slew of racial changes/alternative bonuses brought up in the SCAG.
    I've finished including the SCAG stuff, but I'll get around to the other items you've mentioned eventually.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NYC, NY
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    I don't think either Heart of the Storm or Storm's Fury are worth blue ratings.

    They're very low damage, very low range and quite situational. Heart of the Storm only pops up when using lightning/thunder. Storm's Fury targets the saving you want to use least vs melee. They're just not good.

    Outside of the niche of a melee Booming Blade sorcerer I really can't see the powers being all that valuable. The bonus spell list was the (non-thematic) reason to play this subclass when it was UA.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Tanarii's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    bend luck can target enemy saves. bardic inspiration can't. it isn't as good at buffing skill checks and such, but the sorcerer can be an extremely save-reliant class, and it can even combine with other classes that rely on saving throws. you get to wait until after you know if they would have made it on their own, too.
    You sure about that? I thought Bend Luck had to take place before you had any idea if the check would succeed or not. But after they rolled. So you get to know their roll, but not their result. I'd rate it purple at best.

    If you get to know if they succeeded as well as the roll, then it's still only black. If you know they succeeded, what the roll is, and usually know the target number, it's possibly blue. If you know what they rolled, what the result was specifically (ie roll + bonuses = result), and what the target number was, then and only then would it be sky blue.
    Last edited by Tanarii; 2015-11-10 at 05:47 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by WickerNipple View Post
    I don't think either Heart of the Storm or Storm's Fury are worth blue ratings.

    They're very low damage, very low range and quite situational. Heart of the Storm only pops up when using lightning/thunder. Storm's Fury targets the saving you want to use least vs melee. They're just not good.

    Outside of the niche of a melee Booming Blade sorcerer I really can't see the powers being all that valuable. The bonus spell list was the (non-thematic) reason to play this subclass when it was UA.
    There are a ton of great spells that let Heart of the Storm go off, including four cantrips. Storm Sorcerers will want to get up close to make the most of these abilities, but that's hardly a major setback, especially with how good some of those spells can be. They both make it difficult for enemies to be near you while encouraging you to side up close to them. Hell, it makes Witch Bolt viable with Booming Blade as an up-close HP wrecking ball.

    The damage is fine. It scales, it easily surpasses the most a Draconic Sorcerer can add, and many builds will be able to work it in constantly.
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2015-11-10 at 05:57 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2015

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    I'm away from my SCAG right now, but doesn't heart of the storm specify 1st level or higher spells only? I remember thinking about an aoe melee damage sorc and the booming blade storm sorc combo but it not working for some reason.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NYC, NY
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Momar View Post
    I'm away from my SCAG right now, but doesn't heart of the storm specify 1st level or higher spells only? I remember thinking about an aoe melee damage sorc and the booming blade storm sorc combo but it not working for some reason.
    Correct. 1st level or higher only. None of the cantrips work with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    The damage is fine. It scales, it easily surpasses the most a Draconic Sorcerer can add, and many builds will be able to work it in constantly.
    I'm surprised to hear you say this. The damage does scale, but it's entirely situational, based on a casting less popular element types with less used spells than Draconic assuming they go fire, and of course doesn't buff cantrips where you'd want it the most. It's a minor damage buff to things like Thunderwave.

    Storm's Fury requires you to get hit and eats your reaction, when surely you'd almost always rather Shield away the hit. For something with the high opportunity cost of taking damage I'd certainly want the damage to compare to something like a spell level equilivant of hellish rebuke. And the push rider on the effect is both bad (targetting melee enemies with strength save) and unnecessary given the mobility Tempestuous Magic offers.

    I don't see how they line up with things you rated blue on the other subclasses. Storm Sorcerer is just disappointing mechanically.
    Last edited by WickerNipple; 2015-11-10 at 07:03 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Momar View Post
    I'm away from my SCAG right now, but doesn't heart of the storm specify 1st level or higher spells only? I remember thinking about an aoe melee damage sorc and the booming blade storm sorc combo but it not working for some reason.
    You are absolutely right. That hurts its usefulness a bit, but Booming Blade can still combo nicely with Witch Bolt, taking advantage of the Heart of the Storm.

    Basically, take War Caster. Attack with Twinned Witch Bolt and Quickened Booming Blade. Target takes damage from both spells and Heart of the storm. If the enemy moves away to get out of Witch Bolt, it takes the BB damage and an op attack with another Booming Blade. If they don't move, deal the Witch bolt damage as a bonus and either use a Twinned Booming Blade or another Lightning/Thunder spell.

    Not as potent as sending sparks out every turn with a cantrip, but still nice.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NYC, NY
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Basically, take War Caster. Attack with Twinned Witch Bolt and Quickened Booming Blade. Target takes damage from both spells and Heart of the storm. If the enemy moves away to get out of Witch Bolt, it takes the BB damage and an op attack with another Booming Blade. If they don't move, deal the Witch bolt damage as a bonus and either use a Twinned Booming Blade or another Lightning/Thunder spell.
    Twinned WB and quickened BB is more sorcery points than one has when you gain Heart of the Storm. By the time you'd be able to follow it up with more twinning you're talking about at least a 5th level character blowing a huge wad to do all this, and it still doesn't look especially effective to me compared to draconic scorching ray/quickened whatever.

    What does the twinning of Witch Bolt have to do with anything? It can't hit the same target twice and by my reading it wouldn't make Heart proc twice either.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by WickerNipple View Post
    I'm surprised to hear you say this. The damage does scale, but it's entirely situational, based on a casting less popular element types with less used spells than Draconic assuming they go fire, and of course doesn't buff cantrips where you'd want it the most. It's a minor damage buff to things like Thunderwave.
    I was mistaken about it applying to cantrips (though the damage potential there would have been crazy enough that I understand why it doesn't). Still, it combines well with the spells it works with (a big portion of Thunder and Lightning spells are short range). And with Booming Blade and Lightning Lure you can easily keep enemies within range of your spells and Heart of the Storm.

    Again, less useful than if cantrips would work with it, but it's still pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickerNipple View Post
    Storm's Fury requires you to get hit and eats your reaction, when surely you'd almost always rather Shield away the hit. For something with the high opportunity cost of taking damage I'd certainly want the damage to compare to something like a spell level equilivant of hellish rebuke. And the push rider on the effect is both bad (targetting melee enemies with strength save) and unnecessary given the mobility Tempestuous Magic offers.
    The damage varies between just over Hellish Rebuke at first level to just under it at fourth level, at not cost and with the rider. As for the reaction, you realize that sometimes Shield won't stop an attack, right? Storm's Fury is a solid reaction to use when Shield won't work. And the pushing rider is excellent because it provides decent control over the battlefield. This might not be 4e, but forced movement is still quite nice.

    As for targeting the Strength save, a major portion of melee attackers use Dexterity, not that your concerns don't have merit.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickerNipple View Post
    I don't see how they line up with things you rated blue on the other subclasses. Storm Sorcerer is just disappointing mechanically.
    I'm going to reevaluate it, but I think it's still a workable class.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    United States
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by WickerNipple View Post
    Twinned WB and quickened BB is more sorcery points than one has when you gain Heart of the Storm.
    You gain Heart of the Storm at 6th level.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickerNipple View Post
    By the time you'd be able to follow it up with more twinning you're talking about at least a 5th level character blowing a huge wad to do all this, and it still doesn't look especially effective to me compared to draconic scorching ray/quickened whatever.
    I think it's quite a bit more effective. The draconic bonus can only apply to one damage roll of a spell, after all. The damage would be comparable, but you'd be exercising quite a lot of battlefield control.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickerNipple View Post
    What does the twinning of Witch Bolt have to do with anything? It can't hit the same target twice and by my reading it wouldn't make Heart proc twice either.
    You can twin Witch Bolt, place the Booming Blade rider on one of the nearby enemies, and position yourself to op attack the other. You get to exercise solid control by giving the enemy two poor options from which to choose.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2014

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    You sure about that? I thought Bend Luck had to take place before you had any idea if the check would succeed or not. But after they rolled. So you get to know their roll, but not their result. I'd rate it purple at best.

    If you get to know if they succeeded as well as the roll, then it's still only black. If you know they succeeded, what the roll is, and usually know the target number, it's possibly blue. If you know what they rolled, what the result was specifically (ie roll + bonuses = result), and what the target number was, then and only then would it be sky blue.
    i suppose it is a bit unclear.

    you can use it either before or after the roll (implying you do get to see the roll), but "before any results of the roll occur". depending on your DM's interpretation of that, it might mean 'before you find out if the roll works or not', but it could also mean 'you know if it will work without the modifier, and can choose to use the ability based on that'.

    even if it is the former (though considering the resource cost i think it should be the latter), there will still be a lot of times where knowing the roll will give you a pretty good idea of whether it worked or not. low attributes are often fairly obvious, and not many monsters have a bad attribute with a good save modifier. if you're targeting a monster's weak save (which you should always be trying to do), you can figure generally a range between -1 and +1 unless we're talking about extremely powerful monsters.

    there are exceptions to that, but it's fairly often true.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    DC baby!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    I can help you out right now.

    Haste will be useful if you like to melee or like to help your martial buddies. Counterspell is always useful, and any spell that matches you Elemental Affinity will be great. Which Dragon Ancestor did you choose?
    Fire it has the best spells since the DM ruled out anything from the Elemental Evil handbook. I have Scorching Ray, Mirror Image, Magic Missal, Sleep, Shield, Fire Bolt, Ray of Frost, Friends, & Prestidigitation. I try and stay back out of it but that can't always be the case.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •