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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    I would argue that you are severely undervaluing the purple rating.

    Purple does not mean, "slightly better than red." A purple designation indicates that a choice is not going to be widely applicable to many situations. That build, for example, is very specific. Tempest Cleric levels are only really useful if you happen to specialize in lightning and thunder damage anyways. Otherwise, it's not worth the opportunity cost in delaying your spell progression. Certain domains are useful for certain builds, but a black rating would indicate solid synergy across a wide variety of builds.

    Purple is not a bad designation, so no, I am not undervaluing it. Cleric builds are simply not always a good idea, even if sometimes they are a fantastic idea.
    Ahh! Ok, that makes sense. Forgive me.

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    i'm starting to feel that the rating system might benefit from explicitly placing the "good in the right situation" colour in a completely distinct location.

    so for example, you might list sky blue, blue, black, and red (or whichever) all one after the other, then make it absolutely clear that purple is not in that hierarchy at all by spacing it away from the rest of the colours. it might just improve clarity if you demonstrate clearly that it is not a hierarchical ranking of the ability (or whatever) in the same sense that the other colours are; sky blue is better than blue is better than black is better than red, and purple is either (sky) blue or red depending on the situation.
    I'll agree with this.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    i'm starting to feel that the rating system might benefit from explicitly placing the "good in the right situation" colour in a completely distinct location.

    so for example, you might list sky blue, blue, black, and red (or whichever) all one after the other, then make it absolutely clear that purple is not in that hierarchy at all by spacing it away from the rest of the colours. it might just improve clarity if you demonstrate clearly that it is not a hierarchical ranking of the ability (or whatever) in the same sense that the other colours are; sky blue is better than blue is better than black is better than red, and purple is either (sky) blue or red depending on the situation.
    An excellent idea.

    Edit: I've employed this suggestion in all of my guides. Hopefully it will cut down on purple complaints.
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2016-02-25 at 03:45 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Booming Blade (SCAG): If you have a decent melee, this is a perfect cantrip for you. Quicken and Twin, and the way it combines with other spells make this pure awesome.
    I do not understand all the love this one gets. If the target does not move (and why would it, a big juicy low HP target is within hitting reach) it is only 3d8 extra damage. Ok, it can be Quickened, but you still have to spend on a good physical stat. I can see someone multiclassing into a few levels of Sorcerer for this, but a full caster should be able to do better.

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Green-Flame Blade(SCAG): Similar to Booming Blade, but works with Draconic Sorcerers and can't be Twinned.
    The spell has a target, and another creature. I think it can be Twinned.

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Sleep: I love this spell. No save, and it puts enemies down faster than anything else.
    This gets obsolete pretty fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Maximillian's Earthen Grasp (EE): Bigby's little brother. The damage is okay, and it keeps your enemy in check. (Concentration)
    I think this spell is very underrated. Subsequent escape attempts are checks, not saves, in this regard this is way more powerful than Blindness or Hold Person. More important, you can grab another target once the previous one is properly executed by your comrades. This is something very few other spells can do.

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Hypnotic Pattern: Incapacitate a large number of enemies, completely changing the battlefield. One of very few save-or-suck spells in this edition.
    I think this one is Sky Blue for a Bard, but only because of the Insturments, but in the hands of a Sorcerer it is significantly weaker.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Mervold View Post
    I do not understand all the love this one gets. If the target does not move (and why would it, a big juicy low HP target is within hitting reach) it is only 3d8 extra damage. Ok, it can be Quickened, but you still have to spend on a good physical stat. I can see someone multiclassing into a few levels of Sorcerer for this, but a full caster should be able to do better.
    It's excellent for melee builds, which are perfectly viable. It's also excellent for creating lose-lose situations with quicken. Stay in the Cloud of Daggers or move and take damage. Take another Witch Bolt damage or move and take damage. It can allow you to lock down foes in melee without using a reaction. It's melee damage and control, which is great for any melee build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mervold View Post
    The spell has a target, and another creature. I think it can be Twinned.
    I would personally say that GFB has two targets, one of whom is the primary target, and from what I can tell the community agrees. Any DM is free to okay it, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mervold View Post
    This gets obsolete pretty fast.
    Yeah, it's low-level broken, but useless by mid levels. I'll update this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mervold View Post
    I think this spell is very underrated. Subsequent escape attempts are checks, not saves, in this regard this is way more powerful than Blindness or Hold Person. More important, you can grab another target once the previous one is properly executed by your comrades. This is something very few other spells can do.
    True, but in practice it has its downsides. Namely, its damage is well behind other spells of its level, and it targets the strongest abilities of quite a lot of MM creatures. These reduce its effectiveness.

    That said, I think you make good points, so it could stand to be blue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mervold View Post
    I think this one is Sky Blue for a Bard, but only because of the Insturments, but in the hands of a Sorcerer it is significantly weaker.
    Sure, a Bard's instruments make a charm spell more powerful, but it's still ridiculously good at action denial for Sorcerers.

  5. - Top - End - #125
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    hypnotic pattern is crazygonuts with an instrument of the bards. it is still great for anyone else that can cast it; it hits a good-sized area, and even if enemies make the save half the time you'll either disable about half the enemies for multiple rounds, or most/all of the enemies for one round while they wake up their companions. it doesn't need to work on every single enemy to be worthwhile.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    [ Maximillian's Earthen Grasp ]True, but in practice it has its downsides. Namely, its damage is well behind other spells of its level, and it targets the strongest abilities of quite a lot of MM creatures. These reduce its effectiveness.

    That said, I think you make good points, so it could stand to be blue.
    Hold Person and Blindness do no damage either, but when their target dies, those spells are finished. Not this one. The damage is just (a very small bit of) gravy.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Mervold View Post
    Hold Person and Blindness do no damage either, but when their target dies, those spells are finished. Not this one. The damage is just (a very small bit of) gravy.
    hold person does a lot more to help that target on the way to dying, and blindness doesn't cost concentration.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    hold person does a lot more to help that target on the way to dying, and blindness doesn't cost concentration.
    I agree, every one of them has unique strength and limitations, I usually cite these 3 as the perfect example of balance in DnD5.

    All of them is level 2.

    Hold Person:
    • gives you crits
    • stops movement
    • can be upcast for more targets
    • only usable on a very limited number of creatures (an Azer is humanoid if you look at the dictionary definition, but not in DnD5)
    • stops if the target saves, which they can try every turn
    • stops if the target is dead
    • requires concentration

    Blindness:
    • no crits
    • victim can run away
    • can be upcast for more targets
    • usable on almost everyone, blindsight/tremorsense is very rare
    • stops if the target saves, which they can try every turn
    • stops if the target is dead
    • no concentration

    Maximillian's:
    • no crits
    • stops movement
    • cannot be upcast for more targets
    • usable on almost everyone, avoid giants
    • stops if the target manages a check, which they can try every turn, but no one is proficient with checks, and it takes an action
    • you can retry, if the target got out, or died
    • requires concentration
    • does some damage


    I usually suggest taking Blindenss first, concentrationless advantage is rare and precious. Hold Person is the one that is left behind most often, you usually know if you go against undead/fiends/dragons/etc. that day, and you just dont prepare it.
    A spell that would do all of the good parts combined is easily worth 7th level, probably even 8th.

    (can I crate tables here?)

  9. - Top - End - #129
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Mervold View Post
    I agree, every one of them has unique strength and limitations, I usually cite these 3 as the perfect example of balance in DnD5.

    All of them is level 2.

    Hold Person:
    • gives you crits
    • stops movement
    • can be upcast for more targets
    • only usable on a very limited number of creatures (an Azer is humanoid if you look at the dictionary definition, but not in DnD5)
    • stops if the target saves, which they can try every turn
    • stops if the target is dead
    • requires concentration

    Blindness:
    • no crits
    • victim can run away
    • can be upcast for more targets
    • usable on almost everyone, blindsight/tremorsense is very rare
    • stops if the target saves, which they can try every turn
    • stops if the target is dead
    • no concentration

    Maximillian's:
    • no crits
    • stops movement
    • cannot be upcast for more targets
    • usable on almost everyone, avoid giants
    • stops if the target manages a check, which they can try every turn, but no one is proficient with checks, and it takes an action
    • you can retry, if the target got out, or died
    • requires concentration
    • does some damage


    I usually suggest taking Blindenss first, concentrationless advantage is rare and precious. Hold Person is the one that is left behind most often, you usually know if you go against undead/fiends/dragons/etc. that day, and you just dont prepare it.
    A spell that would do all of the good parts combined is easily worth 7th level, probably even 8th.

    (can I crate tables here?)
    this is a sorcerer guide. you don't leave things behind on a daily basis. you pick it when you level up, and you have it until the next level or longer. also because this is a sorcerer guide, blowing 3 spell choices (1/5 of what the most powerful sorcerers get) on basically the same role is probably not an option.

    if this was a wizard guide, then sure, all three of those spells have value because you can switch to what you need at any given time. but when you only get 15 spells at most, you have to be extremely picky about what you're taking. there's no way this rates higher than blue, and honestly, because of the severe limitations on sorcerer spells known, i'm not sure i agree with blue (the enemies it is most likely to work on due to low strength are more likely to attack through saving throws rather than attack rolls, which really lowers value).

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    • Careful Spell: A useful way to make AoEs more friendly to the party. A few spells, such as Web, will leave your enemies restrained as your allies lay down a beating with wild abandon. Most control spells will leave you completely unaffected, though damage AoEs like Fireball will simply deal half damage to your allies.
    • Distant Spell: It rare that the ability to attack at distance will matter overmuch, though the benefits will be quite useful on occasion. It's certainly nice for those spells with limited range. Witch Bolt, Poison Spray, and even Inisibility can benefit from this in the thick of battle.
    • Empowered Spell: Dealing more damage is always a good thing.
    • Extended Spell: This is a decent use of Metamagic that works especially well outside of combat. Charm and Invisibility are solid examples of spells that do exceptionally well with this.
    • Heightened Spell: Disadvantage is extremely useful when you're casting save spells, and when a spell is save-or-suck and you really want it to go off, this is definitely the metamagic to use. Banishment, Suggestion, and the Hold- and Dominate- lines of spells all work well with this.
    • Quickened Spell: Blasters can obviously make use of casting twice a round. More damage means more damage. Controllers can also benefit from Quickening, however. Many spells that offer battlefield control include the ability to use an action to do something on your turn. Watery Sphere, for example, lets you use an action to move the sphere. Sunburst, Eyebite, and the Investitures also provide action-based abilities, and Quicken will allow you to cast a spell during those turns.
    • Subtle Spell: It provides situational advantages that allow you to cast when you are Silenced or when being caught casting would be detrimental to your plans.
    • Twinned Spell: Double the number of creatures you affect with a spell. This is solid for damage dealers, but it's also an excellent choice for controllers with the Hold- and Dominate- lines of spells, or even Suggestion before Mass Suggestion comes into play.
    Ok, first I wanted to say thank you for giving love to metamagics. So many people think that a majority of metamagics are bad options. Like the only decent or good option is Twin or Quicken.

    Carefull Spell should be noted to just not use it on damaging spells. The sorcerer has enough options at single or multiple target spells that aren't AoE that relying on damaging your allies is just... Not a good idea (though Careful + Evasion is great). Why fireball when you can use scorching ray or magic missile?

    Distant Spell... The spells you chose to put as examples are horrible spells to use distance spell on. Witch Bolt and Poison Spray aren't really worth the metamgic effect. I would go with an example of Ray of Frost (decent damage but good speed reducer), Charm Person (30' is typically within one movement... Screw that if the spell fails), and then keep invisibility in there.

    Empowering Spell, you might want to put a note that this might be essentially useless if you have a damage focused party. Might as well just stick with your normal damage or twin/quicken cantrips.

    Subtle Spell should be blue or light blue. Subtle Spell prevents counter-spelling. That right there makes it Royal Blue, add in the roleplaying factors (blaming others for casting, not being seen casting at all, winning over a crowd) I would say it might even be the Light Blue you have going on.

    Everything else looked spot on :)

    Edit

    I would like to say that I'm a huge sorcerer fan in this edition and create mine with the idea of a SWAT member.
    Last edited by SpawnOfMorbo; 2016-04-14 at 12:23 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    Ok, first I wanted to say thank you for giving love to metamagics. So many people think that a majority of metamagics are bad options. Like the only decent or good option is Twin or Quicken.
    And I'd like to thank you for your input.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    Carefull Spell should be noted to just not use it on damaging spells. The sorcerer has enough options at single or multiple target spells that aren't AoE that relying on damaging your allies is just... Not a good idea (though Careful + Evasion is great). Why fireball when you can use scorching ray or magic missile?
    I already mentioned Web as an example of a solid non-damaging AoE.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    Distant Spell... The spells you chose to put as examples are horrible spells to use distance spell on. Witch Bolt and Poison Spray aren't really worth the metamgic effect. I would go with an example of Ray of Frost (decent damage but good speed reducer), Charm Person (30' is typically within one movement... Screw that if the spell fails), and then keep invisibility in there.
    I think Charm is a great example, but I wanted to show how certain spells can be useful when they're no longer limited by range. Ray of Frost, for example, is rarely hampered by range, so it's not a big selling point in favor of this option. Poison Spray would actually be a decent cantrip with any range to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    Empowering Spell, you might want to put a note that this might be essentially useless if you have a damage focused party. Might as well just stick with your normal damage or twin/quicken cantrips.
    I'm leaving party optimization up to the individual. I encourage players to play around with their selections and figure out what works best with regards to party dynamics.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    Subtle Spell should be blue or light blue. Subtle Spell prevents counter-spelling. That right there makes it Royal Blue, add in the roleplaying factors (blaming others for casting, not being seen casting at all, winning over a crowd) I would say it might even be the Light Blue you have going on.
    The Counterspell thing is very DM specific, and even if it weren't I wouldn't think much of that benefit because so few enemies will have Counterspell.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    I would like to say that I'm a huge sorcerer fan in this edition and create mine with the idea of a SWAT member.
    Awesome! Hope you have fun!

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    this is a sorcerer guide. you don't leave things behind on a daily basis. you pick it when you level up, and you have it until the next level or longer. also because this is a sorcerer guide, blowing 3 spell choices (1/5 of what the most powerful sorcerers get) on basically the same role is probably not an option.

    if this was a wizard guide, then sure, all three of those spells have value because you can switch to what you need at any given time. but when you only get 15 spells at most, you have to be extremely picky about what you're taking. there's no way this rates higher than blue, and honestly, because of the severe limitations on sorcerer spells known, i'm not sure i agree with blue (the enemies it is most likely to work on due to low strength are more likely to attack through saving throws rather than attack rolls, which really lowers value).
    You are right with the first part, a Sorcerer can not afford to learn all 3.
    But I think Hold Person is the most campaign-dependent. If you do dungeon crawl, it is close to useless. So I usually keep MEG until Evard's Black Tentacles arrive, those are superior in every regard, except being party unfriendly.

    Off-topic:Could you please use Capital letter at the beginning of the sentences, it help readability a lot.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    blindness/deafness is hilariously strong for shutting down the most annoying abilities though (you'd be surprised how many things work on targets that you can see).

    and as an added advantage, blindness/deafness can scale up with spell slot or twin metamagic (only as a level 2 slot obviously), whereas... well, let's just say that there's been some lively discussion as to whether MEG can be twinned, and it definitely doesn't scale with spell slot.

    I dunno, I feel like MEG just doesn't have much going for it. if you could create two hands with a level 3 slot, 3 with a level 4, etc, I'd say it would be quite worthwhile.

    (as to capitals, probably not I'm afraid. it's nothing personal, I'm just not in the habit of doing it, so it would take a conscious effort constantly, which I'm not particularly inclined to do for one person. sorry, that's just how it is).

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    I'm no expert on sorcerers, but the races are a bit confusing. You say Mountain Dwarf is a good race for melee, but Half-orc is 'very bad'. Why is that?

    Also, the PHB Tiefling is great, and the Winged Variant is even better, not worse. You trade some average spells (most of them already on the Sorcerer's list iirc) for the opportunity to never worry about melee again, and well, flying! I'd say it's mandatory if DM allows it.

  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Specter View Post
    I'm no expert on sorcerers, but the races are a bit confusing. You say Mountain Dwarf is a good race for melee, but Half-orc is 'very bad'. Why is that?
    Mtn Dwarf gives you a fair bit of benefits. By no means is it amazing (can't get 16 Cha unless DM unlocks 15 cap on point buy/you roll for stats), but first it gives you an extra Con (2 Con 2 Str) over Half-Orc (1 Con 2 Str). It also gives you Light and Medium armor proficiencies on a class that has no Armor Proficiency, which is amazing (unless you plan to roll Draconic or Favored Soul, in which case it's a terrible pick). You also have Adv on Poison saves and resistance against Poison damage, some martial weapon proficiencies (huge if you're not MCing and have a decent Str), and a few other things. Half-Orcs have some benefits: bonus damage on critical melee hits, a decent skill that uses your Cha, and a 1/day "revive" if you would drop to 0 HP, but I'd argue the armor is better than all that.

    Again though, Draconic Sorcs won't gain much from the medium armor (13+Dex instead of ~14+Dex [Max 2] or 15+Dex [Max 2} with Stealth Disadvantage), and Favored Souls get all Cleric armor proficencies (Medium + Shields). If you go Wild Magic or Storm, Mountain Dwarf is by no means a bad pick, it's just less Cha for a lot more permanent survivability (esp if you have 1-2 Dex and no more). If you're trying to be optimized though, one level in Fighter would give you even Heavy Armor prof + shields (neither of which Mtn Dwarf gives you) and you could roll with a +Cha race, giving you your sweet, sweet, +3 to start. Not to mention you could even dump Str entirely, though it'd probably be a lot smarter to go Hill Dwarf if you intend to go Str-less Heavy armor (Dwarves remove the Str requirement to not lose speed).

    That said, I'd put Mountain Dwarf at Purple overall. Black for Wild Magic/Storm, Red for Draconic/Favored Soul, and also Red if you MC or obtain at least Medium armor proficiency from any other methods (feats, homebrew, multiclassing, etc). Half-Orc is just red for all of them.

    If you like some melee as a Sorc, you might want to consider MCing 3 levels into Warlock. Pick up Pact of the Tome, grab Shillelagh (and a few other cantrips), now all your weapon attacks roll 1d8 with Cha instead of Str/Dex. Otherwise, you kinda need to commit fully building around melee and I don't know how well that would work vs other casters like Wizards or Warlocks. You could do it, but eh. It's just not worth gishing as much. That's just my 2cp though.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2016-05-09 at 10:49 AM.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    I have to say I disagree with Cleric being rated so low for multiclassing. I dipped life cleric for bonus healing, healing spells, bless, and guidance. In conjunction with bend fate, I can provide +2d4 to any skill check extremely often. If youre playing a utility sorc who twins buffs like haste, tosses around dispels or counterspells, or anything like that, then taking 1 level in cleric for heavy armor, emergency TWINNED healing, slot efficient buffs, and a bit more hp is a good deal. I admit you'll want the wisdom score for healing potentially, but since healing is generally a poor use of resources, you could also go war cleric, pump strength, and get all those benefits along with good melee potential. I wouldnt take more than 1 level in cleric, but its fantastic dip really.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Mervold View Post
    I do not understand all the love this one gets. If the target does not move (and why would it, a big juicy low HP target is within hitting reach) it is only 3d8 extra damage. Ok, it can be Quickened, but you still have to spend on a good physical stat. I can see someone multiclassing into a few levels of Sorcerer for this, but a full caster should be able to do better.
    You obviously haven't seen Booming Blade in action. It's completely broken and does way more damage than any other cantrip when you factor in the melee attack as well. The technique with BB is you do it to an enemy that HAS TO MOVE. You have a swashbuckler or character with the mobile feat, you booming blade a melee-only enemy (of which there are LOTS of. Plenty of creatures in the MM only have a melee attack), and then you move away from it, forcing it to move at you if it wants to attack again and thus take the additional booming damage. Seeing it in action is just ludicrous how broken it is.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Fflewddur Fflam View Post
    You obviously haven't seen Booming Blade in action. It's completely broken and does way more damage than any other cantrip when you factor in the melee attack as well. The technique with BB is you do it to an enemy that HAS TO MOVE. You have a swashbuckler or character with the mobile feat, you booming blade a melee-only enemy (of which there are LOTS of. Plenty of creatures in the MM only have a melee attack), and then you move away from it, forcing it to move at you if it wants to attack again and thus take the additional booming damage. Seeing it in action is just ludicrous how broken it is.
    It's especially hilarious when the player comes up with a silly way to use it.

    I played with a guy who used BB on a Palasorc with a whip. Yes, a whip. So he had reach, and would BB from 10 feet away and just bound around like a little Yoda almost (he played a halfling). The Whip Smiting was also pretty hilarious.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    It's especially hilarious when the player comes up with a silly way to use it.

    I played with a guy who used BB on a Palasorc with a whip. Yes, a whip. So he had reach, and would BB from 10 feet away and just bound around like a little Yoda almost (he played a halfling). The Whip Smiting was also pretty hilarious.
    You have a nice DM. Booming blade has a range of 5'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbownaga View Post
    I swear, 1 handed quarterstaves are 5e's spiked chain.


    BRING BACK ALIGNMENT LANGUAGES!!!

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Klorox View Post
    You have a nice DM. Booming blade has a range of 5'.
    That's a good point!

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Klorox View Post
    You have a nice DM. Booming blade has a range of 5'.
    Possible with Spell Sniper, if you happen to be taking it anyway.

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    [*]Seeming: No concentration cost, and you get to change the appearances of as many people as you want. You can even alter an unwilling character. Situational, but widely applicable.
    Not really a critique, but if you want to link a really creative and fun use of Seeming, this episode of Critical Role has probably the best one I've ever heard.
    Last edited by Oramac; 2016-08-04 at 01:05 PM.

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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Which would you say is better, a pure Stormborn, or a level 6 bard, X sorcerer? If the multiclass build, which should I level first, bard or sorcerer?

    Thanks for a great guide!

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    JakOfAllTirades's Avatar

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Excellent guide, and very helpful for the Favored Soul character I'm working on!

    I'm looking over the Feats list and there are a few things I'd like to mention:

    Crossbow Expert: The second benefit of this feat reads "Being within 5 feet o f a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls." This includes spell attacks, so this might merit a rating higher than Red.

    Dual Wielder: Useful for Twinned Greenflame Blade or Booming Blade. (Or can you do that with only one weapon? I'm not exactly sure that would work.) Having both hands full is also less of a hindrance with the Warcaster feat. Situational, but is this so useless it should be rated Red?

    Elemental Adept: In addition to Draconic and Storm Sorcerers, there are several Favored Soul Domains which benefit from this one. (Light Domain is almost all Fire spells.)

    Medium Armor Master: Rated Purple for most Sorcerers, but Favored Souls start out with Medium Armor Proficiency, which makes this a more viable option for them. Maybe for them this should have a Black rating.

    Shield Master: Again, after taking Warcaster the lack of a free hand for casting is much less of an issue, which would raise this Feat's rating out of the Red zone for melee casters. (Only)

    My apologies for lack of color-coding. I'm rushing through this a bit because it's almost time for work. Thanks again for writing up this guide, and I hope at least some of these comments are helpful.
    I'LL CAST POWER WORD: THRILL!


  25. - Top - End - #145
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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    Not really a critique, but if you want to link a really creative and fun use of Seeming, this episode of Critical Role has probably the best one I've ever heard.
    I did not even need to click the link to know you were talking about the cows. Magic is fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garresh View Post
    I have to say I disagree with Cleric being rated so low for multiclassing.
    I disagree with your disagreement because the Cleric is not rated low! It is rated Weird, as in the few domains that have benefits worth taking the multiclass for are not going to be for most people, but some people can get a lot of mileage out of them. See my first post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Avraks View Post
    Which would you say is better, a pure Stormborn, or a level 6 bard, X sorcerer? If the multiclass build, which should I level first, bard or sorcerer?

    Thanks for a great guide!
    I think the pure Stormborn, unless you're going Valor Bard for the armor and martial weapons, in which case three levels of Valor Bard and then Stormborn.

    Quote Originally Posted by JakOfAllTirades View Post
    Crossbow Expert: The second benefit of this feat reads "Being within 5 feet o f a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls." This includes spell attacks, so this might merit a rating higher than Red.
    You can take a number of feats and snag a melee or save-based cantrip to use, and those come with ancillary benefits as well. You're simply never better off spending an ASI on Crossbow Expert over Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper.

    Quote Originally Posted by JakOfAllTirades View Post
    Dual Wielder: Useful for Twinned Greenflame Blade or Booming Blade. (Or can you do that with only one weapon? I'm not exactly sure that would work.) Having both hands full is also less of a hindrance with the Warcaster feat. Situational, but is this so useless it should be rated Red?
    I honestly think so. You'd need proficiency with weapons that make this useful, a high enough ability score for the attack, and also this feat. You're at least at level 8 before this becomes relevant, and by that level you shouldn't be building your Sorcerer around his cantrips. Melee full casters tend to focus on the full casting well before you can sink enough resources to make this worth it. They're fun, but sinking multiple feats into both gaining proficiency and enabling a bonus action attack with a better weapon seems like a waste.

    Quote Originally Posted by JakOfAllTirades View Post
    Elemental Adept: In addition to Draconic and Storm Sorcerers, there are several Favored Soul Domains which benefit from this one. (Light Domain is almost all Fire spells.)

    Medium Armor Master: Rated Purple for most Sorcerers, but Favored Souls start out with Medium Armor Proficiency, which makes this a more viable option for them. Maybe for them this should have a Black rating.

    Shield Master: Again, after taking Warcaster the lack of a free hand for casting is much less of an issue, which would raise this Feat's rating out of the Red zone for melee casters. (Only)
    All good points.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Thanks for this Awesome guide. I just recently started playing D&D and this really helped me in making a Sorcerer
    You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by OniKitsuneNinja View Post
    Thanks for this Awesome guide. I just recently started playing D&D and this really helped me in making a Sorcerer
    I'm glad you liked it! More importantly, glad it helped!

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    Planetar

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Your guides are very helpful, it's also nice how they have personality instead of being pure math

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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    I haven't seen this in a cursory google search, but since Delayed Blast Fireball has a casting time of 1 minute, and Extend spell will add an extra 10d6 damage for one spell point, which seems pretty handy to me?

  30. - Top - End - #150
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Quixim View Post
    I haven't seen this in a cursory google search, but since Delayed Blast Fireball has a casting time of 1 minute, and Extend spell will add an extra 10d6 damage for one spell point, which seems pretty handy to me?
    that is an intriguing use of extend spell... considering they nerfed the main other useful options (by limiting the duration after extending to one day maximum), that's probably the only reason i'd ever recommend extend spell to a single classed sorcerer*.

    and even that is pretty sketchy (you get great damage out of it, but how often do you have 2 minutes to sit around waiting for the damage increase?).

    * extend spell isn't too bad for a cleric, actually. gives great efficiency on spells like death ward and freedom of movement if you need the extra duration at all. better than other options? maybe not. but at least i wouldn't look at you as if you'd grown a second head.

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