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  1. - Top - End - #211
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Byke View Post
    Never played Princes, but definitely come back and tell me how is worked out for you. I haven't had a chance to play with Sickening Radiance...I'm just going on gut feel.
    Will do.

    I just checked regarding Warlocks and shield in Xanthar's and no, they don't get shield as a spell. I'll have to pick that up from sorcerer spell list and drop dimension door for it, so no polymorph unless I drop something else.

  2. - Top - End - #212
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Raif View Post
    Will do.

    I just checked regarding Warlocks and shield in Xanthar's and no, they don't get shield as a spell. I'll have to pick that up from sorcerer spell list and drop dimension door for it, so no polymorph unless I drop something else.
    Actually, Hexblades get shield, but yeah, only that Patron Pact gets it.

  3. - Top - End - #213
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by samcifer View Post
    Actually, Hexblades get shield, but yeah, only that Patron Pact gets it.
    totally forgot to check their expanded spell list. thanks!

  4. - Top - End - #214
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    The guide is updated with everything from Xanathar's but the racial feats. Tl;dr, everything deals psychic or radiant.

  5. - Top - End - #215
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    looks good, though one little thing; you haven't got any comments about enemies abound ;)

    (you should also check if it's the right rating, since black is default, but i don't know enough about the spell to conclusively say how it should be rated so maybe that is accurate... i've heard good things, but it could be that someone was reading the spell description wrong when they explained what it does).

  6. - Top - End - #216
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    looks good, though one little thing; you haven't got any comments about enemies abound ;)

    (you should also check if it's the right rating, since black is default, but i don't know enough about the spell to conclusively say how it should be rated so maybe that is accurate... i've heard good things, but it could be that someone was reading the spell description wrong when they explained what it does).
    Good catch!

  7. - Top - End - #217
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Just wanted to weigh in with some experience with Sickening Radiance:

    Played Against the Giants (Tales of the Yawning Portal) last night as a one shot at level 11. Here's how epic that spell can be in the right usage:
    Spoiler: Against the Giants Spoilers
    Show
    So in this adventure there's a fortress right at the start filled with a ton of giants of a varying kind (by a ton I mean 20+ in one room). Normally you're supposed to wait and watch the meeting in secret and get info, but it was a one shot so we went at it anyway. Funneled the giants into a corridor so that only 1 at a time could come through, or at most 2 or 3 but they would have to wade through Sickening Radiance. Wiped 20+ giants due to it as they just had to chill in the cloud since there was nowhere for them to go. Eventually they fail a save, especially with Heightened metamagic, and it's downhill from there. Throw in Synaptic Static and it becomes worse. Spell is borderline broken in the right circumstances, but then again a DM can use it against you too so beware.
    Last edited by Raif; 2017-11-25 at 11:10 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #218
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    heighten works on one enemy for one save. there isn't much "eventually" with heighten, it either works or it doesn't, and then the spell is exactly the same as it would've been in the first place. the eventually came from the combination of the giants being trapped in with the radiance for the full duration :P

  9. - Top - End - #219
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    heighten works on one enemy for one save. there isn't much "eventually" with heighten, it either works or it doesn't, and then the spell is exactly the same as it would've been in the first place. the eventually came from the combination of the giants being trapped in with the radiance for the full duration :P
    Good to know! I didn't have Heightened at that game anyway, but I will in my real game. So in a clarification question, when you cast an AoE spell like this with Heighten (something like Fireball or Sickening Radiance) and catch 5 targets:

    1. Does only 1 target make the save at disadvantage or do all of them make it at disadvantage?
    2. If it's a persistent AoE (like Sickening Radiance, Wall of Fire, Reverse Gravity, etc.) does it affect a target on their first turn of being affected? Or only the targets hit by that spell on the moment of casting? For example, I cast Reverse Gravity and catch 5 monsters and another monster walks into the Reverse Gravity field, does it now make it at disadvantage? Or only the initial 5?
    Last edited by Raif; 2017-11-26 at 02:08 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #220
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Raif View Post
    Good to know! I didn't have Heightened at that game anyway, but I will in my real game. So in a clarification question, when you cast an AoE spell like this with Heighten (something like Fireball or Sickening Radiance) and catch 5 targets:

    1. Does only 1 target make the save at disadvantage or do all of them make it at disadvantage?
    2. If it's a persistent AoE (like Sickening Radiance, Wall of Fire, Reverse Gravity, etc.) does it affect a target on their first turn of being affected? Or only the targets hit by that spell on the moment of casting? For example, I cast Reverse Gravity and catch 5 monsters and another monster walks into the Reverse Gravity field, does it now make it at disadvantage? Or only the initial 5?
    well, some of that depends on what your DM considers to be a target of the spell. for example, do they consider someone who is not currently in the AoE but *could* walk into the AoE to be a target?

    in any event, with heighten, when you cast the spell one of the spell's targets (as noted above, this can be a bit unclear, but by default anything that is going to make a save at the moment you cast it should be fine imo) makes their first (and only their first, it can't be saved for later) save against the spell is made at disadvantage. strictly speaking, the ability doesn't let you choose your target, but i don't think i've ever heard of a DM that doesn't assume that as part of the intent. still, given enough DMs exist, i'm sure there's one out there somewhere that will rule that way. hopefully not yours.

    it only works on one target, so no matter how many you catch in the AoE, only one of them makes their save at disadvantage (unless other factors are in play, such as exhaustion or a shadow hound).

    as to whether that one could be the one that walks into the reverse gravity field after the fact, that goes right back to what your DM considers to be a target of the spell, and also on how they consider the selection of heighten target to be made, which is also not specified... for example, do you need to know who the target is? could you create a gylph of warding with a stored sickening radiance and select "the creature that triggers the glyph"? how about "the largest creature that triggered the glyph"? likewise, with your reverse gravity, the DM may require to choose one creature in the initial area, or may allow you to choose a specific creature in the event that it walks into the area (and if they never do, the heighten effect is wasted), or may even allow you to designate the first creature to walk into the area after it is cast. that's all pretty much up in the air. there is no clear RAW on the matter, so ask your DM, i cannot give you a ruling that is valid by default, it's all down to what is valid at your table with your group.

    however, if i were to attempt to guess the typical default for most DMs, i would *guess* that most will allow you to choose a creature that you can somehow distinguish from others (which could be something like "the orc that is giving orders", but may also include "whichever creature is hiding behind that box" depending on DM) that is initially targeted by the spell.

  11. - Top - End - #221
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    snip
    I see, that sounds... odd. I always understood it as Heighten spell just makes whoever is hit by that spell (regardless of # in cases like Fireball) makes it at disadvantage. I missed the part I bolded below.

    When you Cast a Spell that forces a creature to make a saving throw to resist its effects, you can spend 3 sorcery points to give one target of the spell disadvantage on its first saving throw made against the spell.

    That makes Heighten less... attractive for AoE spells. Thanks for the help!

  12. - Top - End - #222
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Raif View Post
    I see, that sounds... odd. I always understood it as Heighten spell just makes whoever is hit by that spell (regardless of # in cases like Fireball) makes it at disadvantage. I missed the part I bolded below.




    That makes Heighten less... attractive for AoE spells. Thanks for the help!
    heighten kinda requires some specific spells to make it shine at all, in my opinion. it combos well with banishment, for example. the target fails a save, and now they're gone until you've cleaned up all their allies. maybe even just straight up gone, if they are from another plane and have no means of coming back.

    it does less well with AoE, and with spells that allow additional saves (unless you intend for those to never come up... for example, if you use hold person on someone and then all of your melees get around that person and kill them off in a single round). personally, i'm not a huge fan... it is very expensive for what it does, imo, and is tremendously painful to pick up as one of your early choices as a result (at level 3, it is all of your free daily sorcerer points. even by level 7, when you finally get a spell that is versatile and works well with it in banishment, it is almost half of your daily free sorcerer points to use it just once on a single target, anything beyond that is coming out of your spell slots).

  13. - Top - End - #223
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    heighten kinda requires some specific spells to make it shine at all, in my opinion. it combos well with banishment, for example. the target fails a save, and now they're gone until you've cleaned up all their allies. maybe even just straight up gone, if they are from another plane and have no means of coming back.

    it does less well with AoE, and with spells that allow additional saves (unless you intend for those to never come up... for example, if you use hold person on someone and then all of your melees get around that person and kill them off in a single round). personally, i'm not a huge fan... it is very expensive for what it does, imo, and is tremendously painful to pick up as one of your early choices as a result (at level 3, it is all of your free daily sorcerer points. even by level 7, when you finally get a spell that is versatile and works well with it in banishment, it is almost half of your daily free sorcerer points to use it just once on a single target, anything beyond that is coming out of your spell slots).
    Yea I can see that. Im level 7 atm (5 phoenix sorcerer & 2 hexblade) with twin and quicken. I was planning on picking Heighten up at level 10 sorcerer since then I'll have a decent amount of sorcery points for spells like Mental Prison, Hold Person, and Banishment but I guess it won't work well for Hold Person. Seems best for single target save or suck spells along the lines of Mental Prison, Banishment and Disintegrate.

    I'll have to rethink my choice, though I don't think anything else works as well. Maybe empower...

  14. - Top - End - #224
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Raif View Post
    Yea I can see that. Im level 7 atm (5 phoenix sorcerer & 2 hexblade) with twin and quicken. I was planning on picking Heighten up at level 10 sorcerer since then I'll have a decent amount of sorcery points for spells like Mental Prison, Hold Person, and Banishment but I guess it won't work well for Hold Person. Seems best for single target save or suck spells along the lines of Mental Prison, Banishment and Disintegrate.

    I'll have to rethink my choice, though I don't think anything else works as well. Maybe empower...
    subtle is pretty cool too. lets you do some neat tricks if you choose the spells for it.

    and hold person could work with heighten, it just needs to be used as a death sentence rather than as control. the moment you hold the target, everyone needs to get in there and nuke them down immediately.

  15. - Top - End - #225
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Create Bonfire (EE/XGtE): A save cantrip, but it works with Draconic damage and can block choke points. Works well with Pyrotechnics and Quicken. (Concentration)
    Pyrotechnics (EE/XGtE): Quickened Create Bonfire gives you a fire, and this spell lets you blind a lot of people with that fire. This might even make Blindness/Deafness obsolete.
    Following the changes in wording to both Create Bonfire and Pyrotechnics in XGtE, where Create Bonfire now creates a magical bonfire, and Pyrotechnics requires a nonmagical flame, these two spells can no longer be comboed together. This has been confirmed by Jeremy Crawford on Twitter. It seems like they were never intended to work together.

  16. - Top - End - #226
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Any advice on a Dragon Sorcerer Hexblade gish setup

    I figure you should stick with Sorcerer until level 6 at least to get elemental damage bonus

  17. - Top - End - #227
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    This might just be me, but I think Xanathar's guide actually buffed (in some areas) the Shadow Sorcerer.

    • While Eyes of the Dark has its darkness spreading ability delayed until 3rd level, the nightvision you get at level 1 has been increased from 60ft to 120ft.
    • The saving throw for Strength of the Grave is now Charisma instead of Constitution (since we're a Charisma based class that is a buff in my book).
    • Hound of Ill Omen now gives the Hound temporary hit points equal to your sorcerer level (perhaps that is a good reason to not multi-class).
    • Shadow Walk stayed the same (not that it needed to change, if you ask me).
    • Shadow Form (which is now Umbral Form) did get a nerf as the sorcery points needed to use it increased from 3 points to 6 points and you lose your resistance to Radiant (it used to be only Force, now Radiant will damage you as well).


    Looking at this is it worth working your way up to Umbral Form, or would it be better to multiclass into Warlock/Bard instead?

    I was thinking it could be interesting to maybe become a bard for 6 levels and go into the College of Whispers so you can gain some of their cool shadow abilities.

    Also the new 2nd level spell, Shadow Blade, would work really well with a Shadow Sorcerer I think.
    Last edited by werescythe; 2017-12-30 at 04:48 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #228
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Draconian resilience should be sky blue, it's basically like having really good light armor on ALL the time. If you bump up your dex and cha and take a fire dragon and use fire bolt ALOT ( as a go to spell, it's a good cantrip that scales amazingly) , you can do very well in combat despite being a non combatant class

  19. - Top - End - #229
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    An important note on Mage Armor for non-Draconic Sorcerers: its range is Touch, not Self. This means that if you have a Wizard, Monk, or another Sorcerer in the party, you can Twin the spell and apply it to two characters with only one spell slot. That's the equivalent of plate or at least splint armor for a decently built Monk, or one more attack/utility/support spell for your other caster to have prepared/known and one extra slot available. Given that it only costs 1 Sorcery Point, it's a pretty efficient defensive spell to have on your list, and perhaps even more worth knowing than Shield depending on your party composition and the campaign you're facing (if you're only looking to take one of the two of them, that is).

  20. - Top - End - #230
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    I just wanted to say that for a Shadow Sorcerer above lvl 6, the 2nd lvl spell, Mind Spike isn't quite so bad (some aspects are still situational).

    At lvl 6 you should be trying to harass your enemies (especially the big baddies with all the hard hitting attacks and spells) with your hound of ill omen. With Mind Spike you should be able to deal 100% of the damage most of the time so long as the enemy is affected by the hound. Also its effects last for an hour, so even if the hound is disposed of (either by death or by its 5 minute timer) you will still be able to follow and track the actions of that enemy (even when they are invisible).

    Sure the spell stops once they leave the plane you are on, but usually when most enemies do that, its a last ditch effort to survive (plus now you can confidently tell your allies that this enemy has the ability to move from plane to plane).

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