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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by werescythe View Post
    Well? Does anyone have any feedback on the last question?
    You can twin Dragon's Breath, but I believe the Hound is specifically only able to use its action to attack, so it cannot benefit from the spell.

    Empower specifies that it can only be used when you roll damage from a spell, and if someone else is using the spell they get to roll damage, so you can't empower.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    You can twin Dragon's Breath, but I believe the Hound is specifically only able to use its action to attack, so it cannot benefit from the spell.

    Empower specifies that it can only be used when you roll damage from a spell, and if someone else is using the spell they get to roll damage, so you can't empower.
    Okay, I thought it might work as Dragon's Breath seemed to merely give the Hound a breath weapon it could use to attack but I guess not.

    However both Haste and Enlarge/Reduce should work as the enhance the Hounds speed or increase its size will giving it advantage against smaller enemies.

  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Thank you so much, you have saved a noob's life with this guide.

    I am currently a Half-Elf Sorcerer wondering if I could take a Pyromancer from the Kaldesh Plane Shift and would like to hear your opinion on that subclass. Until now I had not been choosing a Origin and just figured out I should be using one (Level 10). Also you helped me realize I had been overspecializing in fire, and that multiclassing into Wizard might not have been the best idea.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke7658 View Post
    Thank you so much, you have saved a noob's life with this guide.

    I am currently a Half-Elf Sorcerer wondering if I could take a Pyromancer from the Kaldesh Plane Shift and would like to hear your opinion on that subclass. Until now I had not been choosing a Origin and just figured out I should be using one (Level 10). Also you helped me realize I had been overspecializing in fire, and that multiclassing into Wizard might not have been the best idea.
    Wow. Yeah, you should have chosen an origin a long time ago. As long as you haven't taken Elemental Adept for fire damage, I think a Pyromancer will do fine. The Fire in the Veins feature is solid if you're fine committing to that damage type, and Heart of Fire will keep bruisers off of you.

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    By the way, can you change the picture on A Dragon Had A Baby With What???. I think that technically, this would not have been, because it seems to be be using a lot of artifacts rather than just pure power, which I think misrepresents Sorcerers. You could replace it with a famous Sorcerer such as Chandra or Karn from from Magic: The Gathering.
    Nerds are easily the best thing that ever happened to the world, and I claim my place as one with pride.

    -Luke7658

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke7658 View Post
    By the way, can you change the picture on A Dragon Had A Baby With What???. I think that technically, this would not have been, because it seems to be be using a lot of artifacts rather than just pure power, which I think misrepresents Sorcerers. You could replace it with a famous Sorcerer such as Chandra or Karn from from Magic: The Gathering.
    I'd rather not, thanks.

  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Here is a fun idea I had for Shadow Sorcery players (depending upon their quirk). On occasion the GM asks the player to roll percentiles. If its below 20% everyone else performs a perception check. If they succeed they see the shadow sorcerer blink. ;)

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    I'm excited to see what MToF has to bring us Sorcerers. Shadar-kai look promising.
    <-Ignore this statement. Someone showed me the stats for the Shadar-kai in MToF and sadly they changed the ability increase from Charisma (as it was in the Unearthed Arcana) to Con.

    I guess I have to stick with an Eladrin Shadow Sorcerer, probably winter.
    Last edited by werescythe; 2018-05-24 at 02:18 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    I think you should give the cleric multi-class a much better rating, but only when combined with a divine soul sorcerer. Metamagic combined with the bonus healing of the life cleric comboes really well for a support caster.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Miracle_Matter View Post
    I think you should give the cleric multi-class a much better rating, but only when combined with a divine soul sorcerer. Metamagic combined with the bonus healing of the life cleric comboes really well for a support caster.
    The fact that you're only willing to apply an improved rating to a specific build tells me that I rated it well. Remember, purple isn't bad, it's just not consistently good across all or most common situations.
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2018-05-24 at 02:07 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    The fact that you're only willing to apply an improved rating to a specific build tells me that I rated it well. Remember, purple isn't bad, it's just not consistently good across all or most common situations.
    That may be the case, but you could maybe hint to the readers that there might be a interesting concept if you look into that specific subclass of sorcerer. I'm going to try it out for one of the campaigns I'm going to be playing in and I can give you more input afterwards.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by Miracle_Matter View Post
    That may be the case, but you could maybe hint to the readers that there might be a interesting concept if you look into that specific subclass of sorcerer. I'm going to try it out for one of the campaigns I'm going to be playing in and I can give you more input afterwards.
    I don't know. The fact that he hasn't modified the base guide to help Shadow Sorcerer players (I'm sure there are a few black spells that will turn blue thanks to the Hounds of Ill Omen), I don't think it would make much sense for him to change his multiclassing section for something that very few players will use.

    Just saying, Divine Soul Sorcerers are fine healer sorcerers (considering how few healing spells and of the other sorcery subclasses have access to) if you really want to be a better healer, might as well be a cleric or a bard (though multiclassing into a lore bard for some extra spells might work nicely).

    Especially since in a few days they will have to update it with information for the new subraces coming from MToF.
    Last edited by werescythe; 2018-05-25 at 03:40 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by werescythe View Post
    I don't know. The fact that he hasn't modified the base guide to help Shadow Sorcerer players (I'm sure there are a few black spells that will turn blue thanks to the Hounds of Ill Omen), I don't think it would make much sense for him to change his multiclassing section for something that very few players will use.
    Do you have any examples of how the Hound changes things?
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2018-05-25 at 12:25 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by werescythe View Post
    I don't know. The fact that he hasn't modified the base guide to help Shadow Sorcerer players (I'm sure there are a few black spells that will turn blue thanks to the Hounds of Ill Omen), I don't think it would make much sense for him to change his multiclassing section for something that very few players will use.
    I think this is the inherent problem with any sorcerer guide. Everything is in context.

    For example, greater invisibility, darkness, polymorph, and haste are all great spells, and are even better when twinned, but a character who has all of those spells will be horribly ineffective, unable to cast more than a couple of spells each combat.

    You might looking at Fireball and Empowered, and then you realize you already have careful, which you picked up for synergy with hypnotic pattern. Fireball sorta combos with careful, and so fireball might look more enticing... but fireball is then also less enticing, because hypnotic pattern serves a similar purpose.

    If you get twinned and heighten on a shadow sorc, you're going to be constantly running out of gas, since Shadow Sorc was already a super high-throttle subclass.

    And so on. As the "Help, My Sorcerer Sucks" threads show clearly, a list of awesome spells stacked upon each other does not an effective character make, even if there's synergy between the metamagic and the spells.

    Adding to this complexity is the issue of progression. If you have twin, for example, you want to be regularly cycling out low-level twinnable concentration spells and cycling in higher level ones, but this lowers your ability to adapt your list as you advance.

    There's so many layers to this stuff, and it's very campaign dependent. Subtle is either totally great, or can be replaced by a skill check, depending on how your DM rules V/S components.
    Last edited by strangebloke; 2018-05-25 at 12:33 PM.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Do you have any examples of how the Hound changes things?
    As long as the Hound (or Hounds as it turns out you can have more then 1 just by spending the Sorcery Points) give the character they are attacking disadvantage when defending against spells you cast as long as they are within 5ft of that character.

    I just think that there are a few spells that normally are kind of meh (for all the other sorcerers), because of the saves they use, that can become more powerful so long as the hound is within 5ft of your target.

    I mean you talk about spells that are great with Draco-sorcerers and Storm-sorcerers (and give them separate ratings based on that). So why not mention the ones that could be great with Shadow Sorcerers?

    Normally one might prefer to use Haste, but in the case that you have a hound (or hounds) near your target(s) Slow could be amazing. Reducing the size of an enemy (Enlarge/Reduce) could also be extremely potent.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    On a separate note, it has dawned on me that by accessing Cleric spells with Divine Soul, you could potentially create a Necromancer themed Sorcerer. Grab the Cleric necromancy spells and perhaps take some cold themed spells from Sorcerer (if you're going the whole Wrath of the Lich King route).

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by werescythe View Post
    On a separate note, it has dawned on me that by accessing Cleric spells with Divine Soul, you could potentially create a Necromancer themed Sorcerer. Grab the Cleric necromancy spells and perhaps take some cold themed spells from Sorcerer (if you're going the whole Wrath of the Lich King route).
    Yup. It's very cool, if not overpowered. None of the metamagic really apply to undead you summon. Inspiring leader is better for you, and if you DM lets you, oathbreaker is a great multiclass.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by werescythe View Post
    As long as the Hound (or Hounds as it turns out you can have more then 1 just by spending the Sorcery Points) give the character they are attacking disadvantage when defending against spells you cast as long as they are within 5ft of that character.
    The thing is that a sorcerer already has abilities that can inflict disadvantage on a save, and other sorcerers have additional abilities that further hinder the saving throw. The Hound isn't adding anything new to the sorcerer's spellcasting, just a different way to accomplish it.

    In your example, even the repeated saves against Slow having disadvantage doesn't change the rating much.
    Last edited by EvilAnagram; 2018-05-25 at 07:23 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by strangebloke View Post
    Yup. It's very cool, if not overpowered. None of the metamagic really apply to undead you summon. Inspiring leader is better for you, and if you DM lets you, oathbreaker is a great multiclass.
    Maybe not on the Animate Dead/Create Undead spell, however I assume you can heal/buff your unholy minions. You might be able to buff those spells with metamagic.

    One question to ask is if you give an undead minion Dragon's Breath, would it use it or would you have to command them to do so.

    Edit:

    Now assuming that you don't want to accidentally alienate your party by being a necromancer (the whole reanimation thing), what is another unigue build for Divine Soul Sorcery (aside from being a healer).
    Last edited by werescythe; 2018-05-29 at 05:09 AM.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by werescythe View Post
    Maybe not on the Animate Dead/Create Undead spell, however I assume you can heal/buff your unholy minions. You might be able to buff those spells with metamagic.

    One question to ask is if you give an undead minion Dragon's Breath, would it use it or would you have to command them to do so.

    Edit:

    Now assuming that you don't want to accidentally alienate your party by being a necromancer (the whole reanimation thing), what is another unigue build for Divine Soul Sorcery (aside from being a healer).
    undead dragon minion can use its breath attack on your command, yeah.

    The big thing to realize with the sorcerer subclasses is that none of them are terribly strong; your metamagic and spell selections are going to be much more important. You have to think of divine souls as a lore bard. They can swap out some of their usual spells for the best cleric spells and then build around that.

    Animate Dead is a top-tier pick, but so are spirit guardians and spiritual weapon. If you get spirit guardians, don't grab quicken metamagic, since that's going to be the best usage of your bonus action, generally. If you pick up spirit guardians, you should invest in some half-way decent AC or other protection.

    Shield of Faith and Sanctuary are great spells to twin. (Sanctuary doesn't use concentration, and can be cast as a bonus action!) Try this on for size: turn1 cast an attack cantrip, then twin cast sanctuary on yourself and your buddy the bard. Turn 2, run into combat and cast spirit guardians on yourself.

    There are also a very few cleric spells, like Divine Word whose range specificies it's area of effect. You can use the Distant metamagic on these to massively increase the size of the AoE.

    In general, Clerics have a lot of non-concentration buffs/debuffs, so if you're a dedicated buff character, you can load up on stuff like command, sanctuary, and others.

    Divine souls are actually pretty bad healers.

    This isn't crazy powerful

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by strangebloke View Post
    undead dragon minion can use its breath attack on your command, yeah.

    The big thing to realize with the sorcerer subclasses is that none of them are terribly strong; your metamagic and spell selections are going to be much more important. You have to think of divine souls as a lore bard. They can swap out some of their usual spells for the best cleric spells and then build around that.

    Animate Dead is a top-tier pick, but so are spirit guardians and spiritual weapon. If you get spirit guardians, don't grab quicken metamagic, since that's going to be the best usage of your bonus action, generally. If you pick up spirit guardians, you should invest in some half-way decent AC or other protection.

    Shield of Faith and Sanctuary are great spells to twin. (Sanctuary doesn't use concentration, and can be cast as a bonus action!) Try this on for size: turn1 cast an attack cantrip, then twin cast sanctuary on yourself and your buddy the bard. Turn 2, run into combat and cast spirit guardians on yourself.

    There are also a very few cleric spells, like Divine Word whose range specificies it's area of effect. You can use the Distant metamagic on these to massively increase the size of the AoE.

    In general, Clerics have a lot of non-concentration buffs/debuffs, so if you're a dedicated buff character, you can load up on stuff like command, sanctuary, and others.

    Divine souls are actually pretty bad healers.

    This isn't crazy powerful
    Yeah, I figured that was probably the way to do it. Just pick out a few cleric spells and build around it.

    And who doesn't love Spiritual Weapon? One of the funest spells in the base cleric list, just watch the new Critical Role season and you know what I mean. :)

    Plus you can Extend it. Lol.
    Last edited by werescythe; 2018-05-30 at 01:31 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    The Giant Soul Sorcerer from the UA seems awfully spread out to me. What do all of you think?

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    When do you guys think that the guide will be updated with the new subraces in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes? Furthermore, what are all of your thoughts on the Eladrin?

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by RoseTheLesbian View Post
    When do you guys think that the guide will be updated with the new subraces in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes? Furthermore, what are all of your thoughts on the Eladrin?
    I found the Tome of Foes to be pretty disappointing, so I didn't purchase it. When I have time (and I have a pregnant wife and lots of work-related travel, so I don't) I'll look them up. Until then, if it gives you a charisma boost it's probably fine.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    I found the Tome of Foes to be pretty disappointing, so I didn't purchase it. When I have time (and I have a pregnant wife and lots of work-related travel, so I don't) I'll look them up. Until then, if it gives you a charisma boost it's probably fine.

    Alright, thank you!

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    The new Unearthed Arcana looks pretty awesome. Changelings got buffed, one of the Shifters is now kind of sorcerer material and the Kalashtar could be really amazing.

    For the Kalashtar can have +2 CHR, psychic damage residence (meh), speak telepathically with friends (almost like multiclassing into GOO warlock), gaining advantage on one of a select list of skills (advantage on Intimidation for a dragon sorcerer sounds fun) and you're immune to magic that affects your dreams (you can still fall asleep).

    It comes with plenty of roleplaying abilities if the GM allows the "spirit" to belong to the source of your sorcerer (dragon for dragon sorcerer, stuff like that).

    I already have an idea for a dragon priestess (just a dragon sorcerer who is a part of a religious community that worships her draconic father) who is a Kalashtar.
    Last edited by werescythe; 2018-07-27 at 06:16 AM.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    My opinions on the new UA races.
    -The updated changelings are great.
    -The Kalashtar are also pretty good (as I already stated).
    -When it comes to the Shifters only one seems to be decent that being the Swiftstride, which adds a new interesting way to play.
    -If you wanted to be a Warforged, the Envoy subrace is really the best way to go.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Hey so, I made a Shadow Sorcerer in a game i'm in. I'm planning to go Hexblade after i reach Level 3 or 4 with my Sorc.
    I'm thinking of going up to Level 5 with the Warlock class to unlock Thirsting Blade.

    Honestly, I'm considering the Fighter Class as well since I really want to try being a Melee Sorc, I saw on the guide here that Dual Wielder isn't a good idea, i'm wondering why?

    I'm wondering how to build this character honestly while staying true to his concept.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeEight888 View Post
    Hey so, I made a Shadow Sorcerer in a game i'm in. I'm planning to go Hexblade after i reach Level 3 or 4 with my Sorc.
    I'm thinking of going up to Level 5 with the Warlock class to unlock Thirsting Blade.

    Honestly, I'm considering the Fighter Class as well since I really want to try being a Melee Sorc, I saw on the guide here that Dual Wielder isn't a good idea, i'm wondering why?

    I'm wondering how to build this character honestly while staying true to his concept.
    Classes with a lot of potential bonus actions make poor two-weapon fighters because there are multiple abilities competing for that bonus action. Sorcerers in particular also have access to Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade, which are often more useful to them than two-weapon fighting without considerable multiclassing.

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    Default Re: How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

    Felt like the right place to ask as both search function and a google search failed to answer but I do not want to clutter the forum for asking a simple question, it seems obvious to me but I am having this argument with someone at the moment, about Draconic Bloodline's level 18 ability Draconic Presence, looking at the way it is worded failing the saving throw means the creature falls under the effects of the frightened/charmed condition for the duration of the aura which is at most 1 minutes (10 rounds) and they do NOT get to make another saving throw at the end of their turns (unlike the Frightful Presence the dragons in the MM have), it lasts until the aura ends no matter what (unless it is dispelled of course), whether it is that aura ended naturally by its duration or you failed a constitution saving throw to mantain concentration. Am I right?

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