Mythos Homebrew Discussion III: Grievous Imbalance Is A Feature

[ThreadNecro5]

It's not perfect, but they should work. A word of warning is that after about level 6 the expected character wealth by that level is greater than the xp needed for the next level, meaning that at high enough levels they can just not buy stuff and get more levels.

An alternative idea I just had was that you could use the expected wealth per level as wealth needed per level, effectively swapping to xp needed per level and expected wealth. Since the xp between levels quickly becomes less than the gold needed between levels it makes things better balanced at higher starting levels while only slightly giving them an advantage at lower levels. Plus, since they get xp as extra gold it replaced their expected wealth per level.

Going by your concern in the first paragraph either I have worded the text in the reverse to what I intended, or one of us as read something wrong (specifically I am not understanding how extra levels could be gained), my intent for how things were to function was, using a character starting at 10th LV as an example:
Begin with 45,000GP in order to have the minimum to be level 10.
Have 49,000 GP to spend on assorted stuff for starting gear. Presume 40,000 is spent.
The remaining 9000 GP is not gained by the Chrimatia, and is gone.

Looking at things now however I think I may change it to only gain 50% WBL to spend in character creation to minimise buying a ludicrous amount of rope or something and selling it immediately for GP to gain levels, and similar shenanigans. As to your second paragraph, I may use that idea depending on how discussion goes.

Sidequestion, is the wealth of the chrimatia based on raw gp or total accumulated value (all currently existing items and wealth in the character's possession?

If by wealth you mean the amount tracked for counting when you gain a level and such, then you only count the raw GP total. but now that I think about it, it would make sense to count the contents of the vault as well, so gems, jewellery and the like are also counted, but not things like buildings and businesses or stuff that you own but wouldn't go into the vault or be traditionally regarded as valuable's (probably exempt Magic items from counting if they have been used in the passed week or so). Opinions?

edit: Or a better idea would be to combine expected wealth at level +1/2 xp per level. Would probably work better than just one or the other. Arguments can be made for other formula.

I'm not to sure on this the final numbers seem a bit high, but I'm not good with numbers and may not be following things entirely.

[Jakman217]

Going by your concern in the first paragraph either I have worded the text in the reverse to what I intended, or one of us as read something wrong (specifically I am not understanding how extra levels could be gained), my intent for how things were to function was, using a character starting at 10th LV as an example:
Begin with 45,000GP in order to have the minimum to be level 10.
Have 49,000 GP to spend on assorted stuff for starting gear. Presume 40,000 is spent.
The remaining 9000 GP is not gained by the Chrimatia, and is gone.

Looking at things now however I think I may change it to only gain 50% WBL to spend in character creation to minimise buying a ludicrous amount of rope or something and selling it immediately for GP to gain levels, and similar shenanigans. As to your second paragraph, I may use that idea depending on how discussion goes.

Saying use it or lose it on the starting wealth for items helps a bit, but you seem to have realized the flaw in that as well. If a charactre spent all their 49k gold, then got it back at half price, they would have 69,500 gp, in xp amount that's equivalent to level 12.

If by wealth you mean the amount tracked for counting when you gain a level and such, then you only count the raw GP total. but now that I think about it, it would make sense to count the contents of the vault as well, so gems, jewellery and the like are also counted, but not things like buildings and businesses or stuff that you own but wouldn't go into the vault or be traditionally regarded as valuable's (probably exempt Magic items from counting if they have been used in the passed week or so). Opinions?

I would say not including items in the vault would be silly, otherwise it'll make it seem worthless. Not counting buildings/businesses and/or immaterial wealth is fine and probably for the best. Wouldn't want the chrimatia to suddenly gain ten levels from gaining a large business afterall. I would say including magic items is also a good idea with the understanding that if you use them up (potions/wands/etc.) then they you lose their value. Though you could consider them to be half the value because that's the standard selling price, I'd say not to bother as it's easier to track the whole value of the weapon then the partial value of it.

I'm not to sure on this the final numbers seem a bit high, but I'm not good with numbers and may not be following things entirely.

The main reason is that any xp they gain is automatically converted to extra gp for them (am I right on this or misreading an earlier post) and around their wealth by level value on top of that. If you increase the gp needed for a level it negates some of the starting wealth issue. Also, if you include magic items in their wealth it means they'll never really lose money on buying stuff so long as it isn't limited uses.

That's my main reason why I think you should increase the needed gp for levels. It removes (or lessens) the problems of them never spending money, including their items in their wealth, and helps keep them from simply selling everything to gain more levels. Plus, if your a DM who makes sure everyone has wealth by level, then you pretty much ensure the chrimatia is going to be gaining a few extra levels.

[DracoDei]

Regarding Chrimatia:
Earlier I said that throwing gold pieces that bypass DR x/Silver was especially thematic. To that I'm going to add that using diamond (or, for the more technically astute, sapphires and related materials) to by-pass DR x/Adamintine would also be an especially good fit.

Links to other threads of relevance to Phileotheysia:
As long as I am here, let me throw these up just in case anyone is interested...
1.) I asked that question about levels lost to revivification in the roleplaying forum. Responses so far seem to be "About once in that whole range" (2 people) or "My group uses in-combat revivification to avoid the issue whenever possible, and draws up a new character rather than playing a level back from the rest of the party." (1 person).

2.) I had created a sequel mythos that built on the one that takes part of the target's damage for them. It allowed sharing of ability score reduction (damage, drain, burn, etc), and eventually negative levels. Then I did an Exalted version that can do all of the above, but spreads the harm out across the whole party, rather than just splitting it between the Phileotheysia and the original target. I then turned most of the results BACK into spells, and posted them HERE.

[ThreadNecro5]

The main reason is that any xp they gain is automatically converted to extra gp for them (am I right on this or misreading an earlier post) and around their wealth by level value on top of that. If you increase the gp needed for a level it negates some of the starting wealth issue. Also, if you include magic items in their wealth it means they'll never really lose money on buying stuff so long as it isn't limited uses.

That's my main reason why I think you should increase the needed gp for levels. It removes (or lessens) the problems of them never spending money, including their items in their wealth, and helps keep them from simply selling everything to gain more levels. Plus, if your a DM who makes sure everyone has wealth by level, then you pretty much ensure the chrimatia is going to be gaining a few extra levels.

Point taken, I'll work on adding this stuff in.


Reply to DracoDei:

Earlier I said that throwing gold pieces that bypass DR x/Silver was especially thematic. To that I'm going to add that using diamond (or, for the more technically astute, sapphires and related materials) to by-pass DR x/Adamintine would also be an especially good fit.

I forgot to add this in, will do so. I think I'll work it out by having the coin-tossing Mythos count as silver if the die rolled is large enough, and for Adamantine use an even higher damage. I can post the updated mythos below while I'm posting some other new ones.


New/Updated Mythos:
Basic:
The Toss of a Coin

Spoiler

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Prerequisites: -

You may make a ranged touch attack to throw a handful of money as a standard action. You choose any single dice to roll (a D100 is treated as one dice in this case), the creature takes an amount of damage equal to the result of the dice roll and you lose an equal amount of GP.

If you cannot pay the full amount equal to the dice roll, you instead take the same amount of damage, that cannot be healed in any way until you pay an amount of GP equal to the amount you could not pay +50%. If the dice rolled is a D8 or larger dice this damage bypasses DR X/Silver. If the dice is a D20 or larger the damage also bypasses DR X/Adamantine.

Self-Indulgent Urge Exploitation
Prerequisites: -

Spoiler

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As a standard action you may target a creature you can see within 60ft and force them to make a will save. Should the creature fail the save they are compelled to work according to their own personal wants and desires over working along with the current situation. They are compelled to do this even in the face of danger but otherwise will act in accordance with their personality. For example a member of a group of raiders could try and make of with as much as they can carry then and there abandoning their comrades, they could intermediately betray their leader having been waiting for the time to do so, or in the case of some beings declare some competition for leadership. Alternatively a town guard standing watch could decide to shirk their duties and head to the tavern. The duration of this Mythos varies depending weather the target is under stressful conditions such as combat, for example the raider in the above example would be but not the guard. When the target is under stressful conditions this Mythos lasts for 1d4+1 rounds, otherwise it lasts for either one hour or until the target is reminded they have other duties to preform/more important things to do.

Advanced Manifestations
Covetous idol
As a standard action you may infuse this Mythos’s effects into an item. While an item is infused in this way you cannot use this Mythos unless you possess the Awaken Avaricious Desire Manifestation, in which case you reduce the number of creatures you may target by one. You gain blindsense 10ft to each infused object and as a free action may trigger its effect as a standard action, targeting each creature within 10ft of the infused object with the effects of this Mythos.

Awaken Avaricious Desire
As a single standard action, you may target a number of creatures with this Mythos equal to your Charisma Modifier.

Fantastic(?):
The Price of Loyalty

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The Chrimatia takes no penalty on preforming a rushed Diplomacy check if they pay 10GP per creature they wish to not take the penalty on during the action (this appears in the possession of the being that diplomacy is being used on). Additionally by paying an amount of GP equal to the creatures total HDx50 you may improve the creatures attitude by one step after the result of the Diplomacy check is determined.

Basic Manifestations:
Actually Decent Fellows
You may preform a rushed Diplomacy check on a number of creatures within 100ft at a time equal to your Charisma Modifier as a Full-Round Action. For the check their attention is temporarily drawn to you so that they hear you out.

Under New Employ
Your diplomacy checks may raise a creatures Attitude to you to Fanatic, as detailed under the rules for Epic Level Characters. All creatures who are Fanatic to you are considered your property.

[Jakman217]

Fantastic(?):
The Price of Loyalty

Spoiler

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The Chrimatia takes no penalty on preforming a rushed Diplomacy check if they pay 10GP per creature they wish to not take the penalty on during the action (this appears in the possession of the being that diplomacy is being used on). Additionally by paying an amount of GP equal to the creatures total HDx50 you may improve the creatures attitude by one step after the result of the Diplomacy check is determined.

Basic Manifestations:
Actually Decent Fellows
You may preform a rushed Diplomacy check on a number of creatures within 100ft at a time equal to your Charisma Modifier as a Full-Round Action. For the check their attention is temporarily drawn to you so that they hear you out.

Under New Employ
Your diplomacy checks may raise a creatures Attitude to you to Fanatic, as detailed under the rules for Epic Level Characters. All creatures who are Fanatic to you are considered your property.

I consider the ability to buy worshipers to be a bit too far, but then that may be because in my own class I've avoided the attitude thing. Other than the ability to buy fanaticism this seems fine to me.


Another question for everyone however.

Have you seen the series Sakamoto, desu ga? Because I'm thinking of making a mythos class around the idea of being SUPA COOL. Basically a class that is around being cool in everything, even to the point of pointlessness. What do you guys think? It is kind of meant to be a semi-silly class, but I could have fun playing with it.

[DracoDei]

Reply to DracoDei:


I forgot to add this in, will do so. I think I'll work it out by having the coin-tossing Mythos count as silver if the die rolled is large enough, and for Adamantine use an even higher damage. I can post the updated mythos below while I'm posting some other new ones.


New/Updated Mythos:
Basic:
The Toss of a Coin

Spoiler

Show

Prerequisites: -

You may make a ranged touch attack to throw a handful of money as a standard action. You choose any single dice to roll (a D100 is treated as one dice in this case), the creature takes an amount of damage equal to the result of the dice roll and you lose an equal amount of GP.

If you cannot pay the full amount equal to the dice roll, you instead take the same amount of damage, that cannot be healed in any way until you pay an amount of GP equal to the amount you could not pay +50%. If the dice rolled is a D8 or larger dice this damage bypasses DR X/Silver. If the dice is a D20 or larger the damage also bypasses DR X/Adamantine.

This seems mechanically... well, 1 GP per point of damage is extremely cheap, but that may be fine depending on tier. One thing I would say is that PbP players may be especially prone to claiming that dice with weird numbers of sides exist (and they physically exist too for a lot of things... I've seen d3s d30s and maybe even d28s). The major problem with this is that you could choose, for example, a d9000 to have a very good chance of one-shotting the BBEG, for a basically trivial expenditure of resources. The one mitigating factor is that the fact that it is a single die means that there is an AWFUL lot of variation, which introduces an strong element of risk. Thus why I picked a d9000 rather than a d1000.

tl;dr Limit it to the standard: d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d100, or (my preferred option), limit it to d100 and smaller.

Maybe have an Exalted sequel that lets you go to d1000s, but with anything over a d100 having a 5 to 1 conversion factor instead of 1 to 1? 2 to 1? Something?

Flavor-wise:
Even a 100 GP diamond is going to be pretty small, and thus doesn't feel right flavor-wise. Well, unless your response is "This is the mythic HOARDER, not the mythic SPENDER.", in which case I would fluff it as throwing a lot more than that, but most of it boomerangs right back into your money-pouch after hitting, with the loss representing only the damage (including tiny fragments of coins and bars and such left in the target) done to the treasure in question. Note I said TREASURE, because being able to throw coins, but not gemstones is silly. Copper amulets that are worth x1000 the value off the copper due to the workmanship* might or might not fit the fluff you are going for.

*Great Master level stuff... how much do you think Da Vinci paid for the canvas and paint for the Mona Lisa?

All of which pales in comparison to the fact that you stripped out ever bit of the flavor I was suggesting by not specifically calling out "gold is better than silver" and "nobody can tell me that diamonds aren't as good as adamintine!"* as the narrative logic behind the DR bypasses. This is mythos. The fluff is important.

Have you seen the series Sakamoto, desu ga? Because I'm thinking of making a mythos class around the idea of being SUPA COOL. Basically a class that is around being cool in everything, even to the point of pointlessness. What do you guys think? It is kind of meant to be a semi-silly class, but I could have fun playing with it.

Not seen the series, but given that someone was at least trying to make the Mythic Yandere Girlfriend, I think you are within the bounds of what might be reasonable to attempt.

That said, it seems a bit vague of a concept so expect to have to change the name of what you are going for, or at least be very careful and/or repetitive about explaining which specific definition of "cool" you are using... Oh, and such definitions should be through enough to work without referring to any outside sources. This is a general rule I think is good to apply, because people's reference pools can vary greatly.

---

While I'm at it, there is one mythos whose wording I am especially concerned about.

Spoiler: PLEASE tell me if I am wearing anyone out... there is a much more important issue with this class that I have been putting off.

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All you need to know about its pre-requisite is that (at the class levels in question) it grants the Phileotheysia SR of Level+5, which can be transferred to every ally within 30', with those within 10' gaining a +5 bonus to it.

As it currently stands:

Spoiler: As the mythos I need a double check on the wording currently stands.

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Legendary Mythos
Holding the Battlefield [Sacrifice]
Prerequisite: Phileotheysia Level 16, Spellcraft 19 Ranks, Shield of the Soul (Fantastic Mythos, see that mythos itself for its further prerequisites)

What use to defend the bodies of your comrades if the very air around them can be replaced with barriers that impede them from rallying together to defend themselves?! This shall not stand!

As a Swift action you may transfer the spell resistance granted by Shield of the Soul to everything and everyone within 30’ that is not yourself, an non-corpse object you are carrying*, or an enemy. This spell resistance gains a +5 bonus when so transferred.

There are several further exceptions to the normal rules for spell resistance:

This applies against supernatural abilities. If no clear way of determining the effective caster level for such abilities exists, use the class levels or hit-dice of the class or race that grants that ability.

It does not apply to spells, abilities, etc. by your allies or you.

It applies only to spells that grant their caster meaningful information (including all divinations), or materially affect the object or creature in question. See end of following paragraph for one example of a case where this spell resistance does not apply.

It applies even to spells that do not normally allow spell resistance, but in such cases ONLY affects the part of the spell that is within that radius. For instance a Wall of Stone would appear with the part that would lay within the area of this mythos excised out of it, and Twinned Acid Orb could have one one of its orbs vanish without effect upon upon striking an ally within the radius of this effect (assuming the caster failed the SR roll), while the other, which might or might not enter this radius, but whose target is outside it would strike its target without impediment. Both orbs would wink out upon entering the radius except that they are not materially affecting the air in any meaningful way, unlike the aforementioned Wall of Stone which replaces said air more than just by flying through it leaving turbulence in its wake. This also means that a Fireball could damage a particular ally regardless of what else made its saving throw (except for a barrier that would block the Fireball if it had been destroyed). In other words, no, the air doesn’t provide total cover just because the air made its spell-resistance roll to not be fractionally heated as the flames passed through it.

Note that if a spell has an area defined spatially, but effectively targets your enemies, then this mythos does nothing to stop that. For one example of this see http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilitySphere.htm”]Invisibility Sphere[/URL].

*Jerky, and leather don’t count, a dead familiar does. I’m sure you can work out the distinction from there...

Spoiler: Ideas for modifications, including Advanced manifestations to add.

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Make this Exalted Tier?... Probably not!

Split this into several mythos since it covers so much more ground than the original?

For simplicity, have this roll only ONCE per spell, at least when it comes to objects? That would keep any arguments about where the boundaries between objects lay (is a cloud the same as the air around it? If you have dry land smoothly transitioning to mud, then muddy water, then clear water where do the transitions happen, if at all?). Post this somewhere OTHER than the main bank of mythos FIRST to get a double-check on the wording.

Advanced manifestation ideas:

1.)Something that requires SR to be rolled for spells passing through the area to target non-enemies?

2.) Area increase? It is already a pretty big area… perhaps a separate mythos for that?

[Jakman217]

Not seen the series, but given that someone was at least trying to make the Mythic Yandere Girlfriend, I think you are within the bounds of what might be reasonable to attempt.

That said, it seems a bit vague of a concept so expect to have to change the name of what you are going for, or at least be very careful and/or repetitive about explaining which specific definition of "cool" you are using... Oh, and such definitions should be through enough to work without referring to any outside sources. This is a general rule I think is good to apply, because people's reference pools can vary greatly.

I would say the class in more general sense could be the illusion of self-confidence becoming reality. It's a mythos class that would gain power from the superficial, and depend entirely upon it's own self confidence. I could call them a mythic fashionista, but that's not really appropriate. A mythic liar could be a way to do it (and turn the 'coolness' of the character into lying to themself), but then I'd be making a different class (and it may overlap too much with the mythic bard as that class stands). I can't think of a better word then stylist, though that is most certainly not the right word. But, the main feature would be that they chose a manifestation of their ego, must protect it, and as it grows so does their power. Current idea list for options is poise, fashion, and superiority.

This applies against supernatural abilities. If no clear way of determining the effective caster level for such abilities exists, use the class levels or hit-dice of the class or race that grants that ability.

It does not apply to spells, abilities, etc. by your allies or you.

I see no major problem with this. I question the application to supernatural abilities, since it should already apply to them anyway, but fine.

It applies only to spells that grant their caster meaningful information (including all divinations), or materially affect the object or creature in question. See end of following paragraph for one example of a case where this spell resistance does not apply.

Not sure what you mean here, that is unbelievably vague. If you want to simplify it I suggest, stating It applies only to spells that harm or target the charges you guard in question. That may help out a bit.

It applies even to spells that do not normally allow spell resistance, but in such cases ONLY affects the part of the spell that is within that radius. For instance a Wall of Stone would appear with the part that would lay within the area of this mythos excised out of it, and Twinned Acid Orb could have one one of its orbs vanish without effect upon upon striking an ally within the radius of this effect (assuming the caster failed the SR roll), while the other, which might or might not enter this radius, but whose target is outside it would strike its target without impediment. Both orbs would wink out upon entering the radius except that they are not materially affecting the air in any meaningful way, unlike the aforementioned Wall of Stone which replaces said air more than just by flying through it leaving turbulence in its wake. This also means that a Fireball could damage a particular ally regardless of what else made its saving throw (except for a barrier that would block the Fireball if it had been destroyed). In other words, no, the air doesn’t provide total cover just because the air made its spell-resistance roll to not be fractionally heated as the flames passed through it.

Note that if a spell has an area defined spatially, but effectively targets your enemies, then this mythos does nothing to stop that. For one example of this see http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilitySphere.htm”]Invisibility Sphere[/URL].

That big paragraph, has so much unclear about it. I start with some idea, but then quickly lose it at about the halfway point. What are you trying to say here?

My first suggestion, don't apply it to things that don't have to break SR. There's a reason why some don't apply to SR, and honestly, most of the worst spells you protect from do need to break SR.

2nd, I suggest treating the aura of 'magic no hurt', more like an antimagic field. Use it's rules to base your idea off of and go from there. The way you describe it is just... unclear to me.

As for it being a fantastic mythos, I think it's fine so long as it's not just an AM field. With the ability to break it I think it's fine as fantastic. The SR is high, but not atrociously high. (The standard for high SR is about 11+HD, any higher and it's almost unbreakable.)

[DracoDei]

I would say the class in more general sense could be the illusion of self-confidence becoming reality. It's a mythos class that would gain power from the superficial, and depend entirely upon it's own self confidence. I could call them a mythic fashionista, but that's not really appropriate. A mythic liar could be a way to do it (and turn the 'coolness' of the character into lying to themself), but then I'd be making a different class (and it may overlap too much with the mythic bard as that class stands). I can't think of a better word then stylist, though that is most certainly not the right word. But, the main feature would be that they chose a manifestation of their ego, must protect it, and as it grows so does their power. Current idea list for options is poise, fashion, and superiority.

It is probably just how tired I am, but that doesn't make much sense to me. I have a start on it, but it doesn't add up to a meaningful whole. Maybe I'll have another look at it at some later point.

Perhaps some specific examples would help?

I see no major problem with this. I question the application to supernatural abilities, since it should already apply to them anyway, but fine.

From the SRD:
Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic.

Not sure what you mean here, that is unbelievably vague. If you want to simplify it I suggest, stating It applies only to spells that harm or target the charges you guard in question. That may help out a bit.

Nope... "harm" is much to narrow a definition. See below about what the core of the idea is.

That big paragraph, has so much unclear about it. I start with some idea, but then quickly lose it at about the halfway point. What are you trying to say here?

My first suggestion, don't apply it to things that don't have to break SR. There's a reason why some don't apply to SR, and honestly, most of the worst spells you protect from do need to break SR.

The core concept here was actually to have it to apply to battlefield control stuff like Wall of Stone, Web, Wall of Iron, etc. Especially the walls since that could cut the Phileotheysia off from one or more of his allies which... is a very bad thing for that ally since most of the Phileotheysia's buffs have a 1 round duration.

To put it another way, the fact that it actually gives your allies SR is a comparatively minor point. The major point is that it prevents the enemy from messing with the environment.

Also, Orbs are generally considered to be ridiculous, so that was part of my thinking with having it be so all-encompassing.

Lastly, asking me what I mean by something, rather than a more specific question, is usually an exercise in frustration. If I knew how to say something more clearly, I would have already done so.

I like to provide examples when things get murky, which is why that paragraph was so example-heavy.

2nd, I suggest treating the aura of 'magic no hurt', more like an antimagic field. Use it's rules to base your idea off of and go from there. The way you describe it is just... unclear to me.

Yeah, that might be a better way to describe it... I guess? Antimagic Field did, indeed cross my mind when I was writing the mythos, but I also liked the idea of freely being able to target through it, which I'm not sure if AMF does... it is too late at night, and I have an important doctor's appointment in the morning, so I'm not going to check.

The key image here probably is that of a Wall of Iron appearing missing a massive chunk in the middle IF the caster fails to overcome the SR.

As for it being a fantastic mythos, I think it's fine so long as it's not just an AM field. With the ability to break it I think it's fine as fantastic. The SR is high, but not atrociously high. (The standard for high SR is about 11+HD, any higher and it's almost unbreakable.)

Well, the SR automatically upgrades to level 15+level when you get your first Exalted Mythos, due to the way the pre-requisite mythos works, but I could perhaps be talked into changing that.

[Jakman217]

It is probably just how tired I am, but that doesn't make much sense to me. I have a start on it, but it doesn't add up to a meaningful whole. Maybe I'll have another look at it at some later point.

Perhaps some specific examples would help?

Alright.

Example/Idea 1: Character looks at a barrage of arrows coming at him. Takes a pose and smiles at their attempts to hit him. Proceeds to roll a charisma check to convince himself he's untouchable(higher level ability may trivialize or negate the need of this roll), and then continues laughing as suddenly his AC increases dramatically.

Example/Idea 2: The character is confronted by an assailant. The character proceeds to proclaim that the assailant is inferior, and explains why, then (after a charisma check) pimp slaps them into unconsciousness.

Example/Idea 3: The character walking through a party wearing their best (and prized) dress proceeds to spill something on her dress. Lacking the ability to protect it or spin it (insert check) in her favor she attempts to clean it. After attempting to clean it, and realizing she can't, they proceed to run from the room screaming and foaming at the mouth until this crime against fashion is rectified.

Example/Idea 4: Someone attempts to defame the Cool Dood that is the character. The character proceeds (with a check) simply adjust to the action in the most impressive way and his fame multiplies.

Example/Idea 5: The character's hair is flawless and worthy of being called art. Someone attempting to dethrone him attempts to cut it off. The Character laughs and proclaims his hair is so beautiful, reality itself will keep it from being cut, and so the character's hair suddenly becomes like adamant, breaking the razor of the attacker.

Example/Idea 6: The character gets into an arm wrestling contest with an anthropomorphic african elephant who took levels in war hulk for all the strength. Rolls a charisma check to convince himself he's stronger, but fails, and now lays broken on the ground, his self-esteem and grandeur broken in his mind. He must fix this by beating the elephant man and prove he is superior. And, he will stop at nothing to do so.

To sum it up. It takes the Glorious/Humbled mechanic from the Dinyomi, makes it a bit more flexible in terms of difficulty to upkeep. Then focuses the abilities on giving superficial things more power than the real things. It emphasizes the character believing he's superior without making him power hungry. To harden it even more, the classes abilities should be (in some form or another) be focused on meeting or allowing you to meet the rule of cool.

From the SRD:
Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic.

Well, the more you know.

The core concept here was actually to have it to apply to battlefield control stuff like Wall of Stone, Web, Wall of Iron, etc. Especially the walls since that could cut the Phileotheysia off from one or more of his allies which... is a very bad thing for that ally since most of the Phileotheysia's buffs have a 1 round duration.

To put it another way, the fact that it actually gives your allies SR is a comparatively minor point. The major point is that it prevents the enemy from messing with the environment.

Also, Orbs are generally considered to be ridiculous, so that was part of my thinking with having it be so all-encompassing.

Lastly, asking me what I mean by something, rather than a more specific question, is usually an exercise in frustration. If I knew how to say something more clearly, I would have already done so.

I like to provide examples when things get murky, which is why that paragraph was so example-heavy.

Yeah, that might be a better way to describe it... I guess? Antimagic Field did, indeed cross my mind when I was writing the mythos, but I also liked the idea of freely being able to target through it, which I'm not sure if AMF does... it is too late at night, and I have an important doctor's appointment in the morning, so I'm not going to check.

The key image here probably is that of a Wall of Iron appearing missing a massive chunk in the middle IF the caster fails to overcome the SR.

Well, the SR automatically upgrades to level 15+level when you get your first Exalted Mythos, due to the way the pre-requisite mythos works, but I could perhaps be talked into changing that.

Ok, that makes much more sense. AMF does stop (suppress) all spells and magic that enters it's range. Wall's of X automatically don't appear in them, and if the field moves onto them it causes them to dissappear. It does not stop the spell from moving through the field and hitting something on the other side as it expressly suppresses and not stops spells that are already in effect.

Part of me want's to suggest to tone it down from 15+level SR, but then again, a fair number of people with mythos characters aren't going to be dealing with that many spell casters. I'd suggest staying closer to 11+level SR, but I'm not going to yell at you for putting it so high.

[roko10]

Well, honestly, that looks like the other half of the Empyrean made manifest, which is pretty damn cool. "I think I'm awesome, therefore I am" are amongst my favorite character archetypes. It's quite doable from a Mythos-making perspective, too.

In other news, I'm trying to create a Mythos class who doesn't have one specific "famous" Titan to draw their Mythos from, but rather having to do with the "obscure" Titans who aren't even relevant enough to get Anthols of their own. Mechanicswise, they're the "skillmonkiest" of the Mythic classes, pushing the boundaries of otherwise mundane skills to the maximum.

Is this idea allowed in the Mythos lore? I mean, there's the fact that sometimes, Anthols somehow get some measure of power from other Titans, but is it even possible for a bunch of no-name Titans to "work together" and create some sort of Mythos grab bag? Are there even "irrelevant" Titans in the lore?

[VoodooPaladin]

Is this idea allowed in the Mythos lore? I mean, there's the fact that sometimes, Anthols somehow get some measure of power from other Titans, but is it even possible for a bunch of no-name Titans to "work together" and create some sort of Mythos grab bag? Are there even "irrelevant" Titans in the lore?

It's a little strange, but I think there is precedent. The Conqueror is made of several lesser Mythic entities, bound together by envy towards their greater cousins and contempt towards all that they have created. Egregore is a composite being stitched together from various Mythos that did not survive to become incorporated into the new world: his sons are Roger Rabbit, his daughters are Lola Bunny, and his adopted grandbabies are an army of soul-eating leather penguins.

So I think the idea would be that, technically, you can't be a bunch of "Weak Mythos", but you can totally be one "Strong Mythos" that is literally nothing but a number of "Weak Mythos" bolted onto each other like some kind of crossbred mongrelfolk/owlbear chimera. "The Coalition's Mythos" maybe?

Still, if you can make some kind of concept-thieving Myth-hussy a valid class concept, you're welcome to it.

[nikkoli]

BRAZEN OBELUS TEGUMENT
Prerequisite: -

Your flesh takes on the metallic appearance of burnished brass, and your features become slightly harder and more statuesque. For some characters, this also alters their skin and eye color to something more inhuman (especially a brilliant, glowing green), but it is not always the case. You no longer bleed, though deep wounds reveal veins of verdigris where your blood might've been, and you have Damage Reduction X/Lawful where X is equal to your class level.

At 4th level, you also have Fire Resistance equal to your class level.

At 9th level, the Damage Reduction granted by this Mythos becomes X/Lawful and Magic.

So since you no longer have blood, would you not need to breathe? It makes since since you lack a means to transport oxygen, that you wouldn't need it. (posting here since jaganatha thread is too old)

[Lanth Sor]

So since you no longer have blood, would you not need to breathe? It makes since since you lack a means to transport oxygen, that you wouldn't need it. (posting here since jaganatha thread is too old)

Based on the fact that the ability doesn't say anything about negating the function of your now metal blood, and Xefas in rather good at not including things in vague wording if he means it he would have said you no longer need to breathe. I would say it bears no effect on breathing.

Also if anyone is interested I'd like to continue the PBP. Currently it seems only one guy is really wanting to continue it.

[UrsusArctos]

GODKILLING IDOL FRAME requires BRAZEN OBELUS TEGUMENT as a prerequisite. At level four, you can choose to grow a helmet with your armor. By doing this, you lose your need to breathe and eat. If Tegument removed the need to breathe, this would be redundant.

[ThreadNecro5]

Example/Idea 1: Character looks at a barrage of arrows coming at him. Takes a pose and smiles at their attempts to hit him. Proceeds to roll a charisma check to convince himself he's untouchable(higher level ability may trivialize or negate the need of this roll), and then continues laughing as suddenly his AC increases dramatically.

Example/Idea 2: The character is confronted by an assailant. The character proceeds to proclaim that the assailant is inferior, and explains why, then (after a charisma check) pimp slaps them into unconsciousness.

Example/Idea 3: The character walking through a party wearing their best (and prized) dress proceeds to spill something on her dress. Lacking the ability to protect it or spin it (insert check) in her favor she attempts to clean it. After attempting to clean it, and realizing she can't, they proceed to run from the room screaming and foaming at the mouth until this crime against fashion is rectified.

Example/Idea 4: Someone attempts to defame the Cool Dood that is the character. The character proceeds (with a check) simply adjust to the action in the most impressive way and his fame multiplies.

Example/Idea 5: The character's hair is flawless and worthy of being called art. Someone attempting to dethrone him attempts to cut it off. The Character laughs and proclaims his hair is so beautiful, reality itself will keep it from being cut, and so the character's hair suddenly becomes like adamant, breaking the razor of the attacker.

Example/Idea 6: The character gets into an arm wrestling contest with an anthropomorphic african elephant who took levels in war hulk for all the strength. Rolls a charisma check to convince himself he's stronger, but fails, and now lays broken on the ground, his self-esteem and grandeur broken in his mind. He must fix this by beating the elephant man and prove he is superior. And, he will stop at nothing to do so.

To sum it up. It takes the Glorious/Humbled mechanic from the Dinyomi, makes it a bit more flexible in terms of difficulty to upkeep. Then focuses the abilities on giving superficial things more power than the real things. It emphasizes the character believing he's superior without making him power hungry. To harden it even more, the classes abilities should be (in some form or another) be focused on meeting or allowing you to meet the rule of cool.

This sound like a cool idea. As an idea how about something that allows the character to temporarily erase others from existence due to the logic 'I'm so impressive none would oppose me!'



Also the mythos I posted last time have been adjusted:
The Price of Loyalty

Spoiler

Show

The Chrimatia takes no penalty on preforming a rushed Diplomacy check if they pay 10GP per creature they wish to not take the penalty on during the action (this appears in the possession of the being that diplomacy is being used on). Additionally by paying an amount of GP equal to the creatures total HDx50 you may improve the creatures attitude by one step after the result of the Diplomacy check is determined, this may not raise a creatures attitude to you to Fanatic.

Basic Manifestations:
Actually Decent Fellows
You may preform a rushed Diplomacy check on a number of creatures within 100ft at a time equal to your Charisma Modifier as a Full-Round Action. For the check their attention is temporarily drawn to you so that they hear you out.

Under New Employ
Your diplomacy checks may raise a creatures Attitude to you to Fanatic, as detailed under the rules for Epic Level Characters. All creatures who are Fanatic to you are considered your property.

This now prevents you from buying your way up to fanatic.

The Toss of a Coin

Spoiler

Show

Prerequisites: -

The saying of ‘throwing money at a problem’ is an odd one, and while the Wyrm more often won its battles though a more metaphorical display of wealth the Chrimatia is quite capable of doing both at the same time.
You may make a ranged touch attack to throw a handful of money (as well as likely other assorted gems, ingots, and assorted valuables that get increasingly mixed in as the value of thrown items increases) as a standard action. You choose any single dice to roll up to a D100 (a D100 is treated as one dice in this case), the creature takes an amount of damage equal to the result of the dice roll and you lose an equal amount of GP.

If you cannot pay the full amount equal to the dice roll, you instead take the same amount of damage, that cannot be healed in any way until you pay an amount of GP equal to the amount you could not pay +50%. Thanks to the higher grade of the thrown valuables (e.g. As the value of the thrown handful increases the concentration of more valuable coins and gems raises) if the dice rolled is a D8 or larger dice this damage bypasses DR X/Silver. If the dice is a D20 or larger the damage also bypasses DR X/Adamantine.

This now has fluff (something I intended to add to the mythos when I revise them before posting the class) and I have caped the dice to a D100 maximum.

[roko10]

Hey, so I'm working again on the Kalthorros over here, and I would like to have some people PEACHing it.

[Bluydee]

Hey, so I'm working again on the Kalthorros over here, and I would like to have some people PEACHing it.

Flesh-And-Bones Enchanting Will has a typo, unless it really is meant to say "You can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Constitution modifier when calculating Will saves. You do not automatically fail Fortitude saves on a roll of natural 1.". Also, personally, I'd feel like someone running off of determination and grit would be based off Charisma or Constitution, not Wisdom. Most of the people on your banner aren't particularly wise and the posterboy for the class in my opinion is definitely Simon or Kamina, and neither of them were as notably wise as their force of personality.

[roko10]

^D'oh. That was meant to be Fortitude saves. Thanks for that.

I wasn't exactly sure about Wisdom myself, but I feel that there's a bit of Charisma oversaturation in Mythos right now and not enough Wisdom representation.

Maybe just allow then to use their highest stat modifier to calculate Grit?

[Jakman217]

I wasn't exactly sure about Wisdom myself, but I feel that there's a bit of Charisma oversaturation in Mythos right now and not enough Wisdom representation.

Maybe just allow then to use their highest stat modifier to calculate Grit?

I kind of agree that there is a bit of oversaturation with CHA, but I agree with the last guy that wisdom is a poor choice. I personally think either Constitution or Strength, over wisdom. Being able to chose any I think is ripe for both abuse and misrepresentation as most of them I don't see as Dextrous, Intelligent, or Wise. They really are either unstoppable strength, unending endurance, or so wielding the charisma of a god. Charisma could be dropped without too much harm to the base idea, partially because they are determinators, and also because between the the dinyomi and the megalieti the charismatic determined leader is kind of covered.

[PeacefulOak]

Or, if none of the primary statistics fully fit the bill (which I feel may be the case), why not look at secondary statistics? Is there a statistic that represents overall determination, force of presence, and the ability to overcome what is thrown at them? Why yes, there is! It's the Will Saving Throw (And possibly Fortitude)!

Why not use some portion of the character's Will and/or Fortitude Saving throw modifiers to determine their Grit?

[Jakman217]

Or, if none of the primary statistics fully fit the bill (which I feel may be the case), why not look at secondary statistics? Is there a statistic that represents overall determination, force of presence, and the ability to overcome what is thrown at them? Why yes, there is! It's the Will Saving Throw (And possibly Fortitude)!

Why not use some portion of the character's Will and/or Fortitude Saving throw modifiers to determine their Grit?

... You know when you point it out, it sounds genius to me. I agree with this guy. I suggest fortitude personally, though will could easily be used as well. I would suggest choosing one, but you could choose both, or consolidate them together into a determination save that covers both.

[Gideon Falcon]

So, forgive me for being a bit negative, but the Mythos system has always confused me- I've tried looking at the classes, but I can never make heads or tails of how the abilities would actually work, and it always seems as if the classes are only half-finished. I think part of it may be the formatting, which makes it difficult to distinguish sections from each other, but other than that I really can't understand what's causing so much confusion. Seeing how popular the system is, it makes me suspect that it's more something about me than the system itself, but I still just can't figure out what's really going on.
Perhaps if you could figure out some way of stream-lining or simplifying the process, possibly by dividing each Mythos ability (which all seem to be very large, complicated structures) into smaller abilities that are easier to keep track of, it might be more appealing to folks like me, assuming I'm not just crazy.

[Jakman217]

So, forgive me for being a bit negative, but the Mythos system has always confused me- I've tried looking at the classes, but I can never make heads or tails of how the abilities would actually work, and it always seems as if the classes are only half-finished. I think part of it may be the formatting, which makes it difficult to distinguish sections from each other, but other than that I really can't understand what's causing so much confusion. Seeing how popular the system is, it makes me suspect that it's more something about me than the system itself, but I still just can't figure out what's really going on.
Perhaps if you could figure out some way of stream-lining or simplifying the process, possibly by dividing each Mythos ability (which all seem to be very large, complicated structures) into smaller abilities that are easier to keep track of, it might be more appealing to folks like me, assuming I'm not just crazy.

1st, you may be a bit crazy but then all of us are.
2nd. It may seem disorganized because a number of the classes are incomplete. It also may be because it's not a linear progression like other classes but a suite of options and features you chose as you level. As for making it better. Outside of some outliers and slightly inconsistent style between the classes there really isn't much better of a way to organize it.

Most abilities aren't linear, most of the ones with prerequisites are after what they require. All of them are organized by tier in the first few posts. I've done some reorganizing of this material on a wiki(http://mythos-compendium.wikia.com/w...mpendium_Wikia) but that's incomplete, and slow in coming since the support for it is currently just myself. Other than that I suggest going one piece at a time from the top.

[Zenna]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...yer&p=20337956
Hey guys, ive tweaked my class a bit. Your right it did feel a bit too much like mythic dragon disciple so i trimmed down the split between dragon and hero and made it easier to switch between them
the basic concept ive got for this is a knight marked by fate slayed a dragon at the cost of himself and their souls mixed
Could I get some thoughts

[PeacefulOak]

So, forgive me for being a bit negative, but the Mythos system has always confused me- I've tried looking at the classes, but I can never make heads or tails of how the abilities would actually work, and it always seems as if the classes are only half-finished. I think part of it may be the formatting, which makes it difficult to distinguish sections from each other, but other than that I really can't understand what's causing so much confusion. Seeing how popular the system is, it makes me suspect that it's more something about me than the system itself, but I still just can't figure out what's really going on.
Perhaps if you could figure out some way of stream-lining or simplifying the process, possibly by dividing each Mythos ability (which all seem to be very large, complicated structures) into smaller abilities that are easier to keep track of, it might be more appealing to folks like me, assuming I'm not just crazy.

I think some part of the confusion comes from the design process of Mythos, or at least the design process as I have experienced it, both personally and in reading these threads here. With a standard D&D class, you have a concept, and a structured path that the concept follows. Your Paladin is a holy warrior, who becomes more holy and warriorish as he progresses. He makes decisions when it comes to feats, or to spell selection, or maybe alternative class features, but in the end, he's a Paladin.

A Mythos Class is a story, told a thousand times, with variations that occur as a result of that repetition. It is the essence of a hero or a villain, and how that essence develops into the end result is something that builds organically as the character levels up. This creates some of that sensation of chaos that you perceive, as many of the Mythos at each level of progression are telling parts of the story that may be completely contradicting!

If I were to make one criticism of the Mythos system as a whole, it is the built-in concept of buying additional mythos. What I have seen is that this leads to two potential problems, one on the design side, one on the play side. The design side problem is that, assuming that people can buy additional mythos makes it somewhat less important to ensure that each mythos have an equivalent but different impact on the way the character is played. The possibility of "less useful mythos" comes in, and becomes acceptable. On the play side, power creep is definitely a thing. Playing a Mythos character that has had to choose it's mythos to either build towards an end result, or to achieve a broad balance of abilities, is very different from playing a Mythos character that has access to literally every mythos and excellency available to it. At that point, what you are playing is less an extension of the story of the Titan and more a creature that is almost an embodiment of the full story of the Titan itself.

[VoodooPaladin]

On the play side, power creep is definitely a thing.

For what it's worth, I've felt for years that innovated Mythos are extremely undercosted. Get All-Consuming Rampage Release for 1000 gp and 250 xp? That's a whirling barbarian's rage for the cost of a +1 sword, before the manifestation that gives you Powerful Build. Psychotic Sapience-Brutalizing Devolution gives a character with 8 Int a +3 bonus to Will saves at the same cost, and Vomit Forth Apocalyptica comes compliments of the chef. What do items give that Mythos don't outstrip, gp-for-gp?

[Lanth Sor]

Something Xefas brought up before and i agree has alot of merit is a new non XP non Gold system to quantify mythos power. Using mythos points as something you cant gain through the means listed but instead something more ephemeral the DM must define.Then they can provide bonuses to any no mythic characters based on a similar basis say maybe the "hero" soul

[roko10]

So, instead of trying to salvage the unfocused trainwreck that is the Kalthy, I made the Mythic Mad Scientist instead. Please PEACH.

[Fizban]

I've tried looking at the classes, but I can never make heads or tails of how the abilities would actually work

Try thinking of it like a Warlock: you have four grades of main abilities (Mythos instead of Invocations). There's also Excellencies on the side, which are drawn from a different pool and are usually not as level-based, like a list of bonus feats or rogue special abilities. Remember that all Mythos classes have full BAB: regardless of special abilities, their first skill is hitting stuff. Edit: as apparently everyone is quick to point out, some have been made with lower BAB.

But where invocations are usually just "spell X at-will," Mythos can give you all sorts of stuff ranging from feats and flat bonuses to special abilities or entire new mechanical subsystems, and can include sub-choices. You take a Mythos, you get whatever it says you get, often an entirely unique class feature. When you see Basic or Advanced that means you get more stuff than just the initial whatever. For Basic you choose one thing and get it right now, for Advanced you pick now but don't get it until next level, and if it has both Basic and Advanced then you get both (Basic now and Advanced next level).

Most mythos classes give you one Mythos at every other level. So on an odd level up you'll pick a Mythos, and one Basic option if it has any. On an even level up you'll pick the Advanced option for whatever Mythos you took last level, if it has any. When you get access to higher grades of Mythos you'll see that they often come in families, where you need the lower level version before you can take the higher. Finally, you can use Mythos Points to learn more Mythos, learn extra Basic and Advanced options from those that you already know, or learn more Excellencies, but how you gain those Mythos Points depends highly on your class and Mythos (there's no base method, you need to find one available to you and take it).

With the usual progression you end up with 4 Exceptional, 3 Fantastic, 3 Legendary, and 2 Exalted Mythos, and one Excellency at almost every level (totaling 14 at the end)

I'd recommend reading one of Xefas's classes first, but not the Teramach or Kathodos since they've got lots of fiddly stuff going on. I found the Olethrofex much easier to get into, some of it's abilities are long but there's no worrying about meshing rage mechanics or figuring out what all those elements mean.

PeacefulOak isn't wrong about the system of buying Mythos complicating things. It's easy to build a character with just what you get from your normal level-ups, not many more choices than a Warlock or martial adept in fact, but you'll find that many Mythos pretty much assume you will be buying more than one of their Basic/Advanced abilities, and while there are usually a lot of cool upgrade paths and potential combos you just won't have room for everything unless you buy. At lower levels 1-9 you're pretty limited, but once you can reliably do whatever you need to do for Mythos Points and have enough WBL (you usually have to burn cash), a high level Mythos character will have basically all the Exceptional/Fantastic tier abilities they want, and probably a few extra Legendary tier options as well. Of course if a Warlock could buy Invocations you can bet they'd do it too.

[Lanth Sor]

So, instead of trying to salvage the unfocused trainwreck that is the Kalthy, I made the Mythic Mad Scientist instead. Please PEACH.

Speaking of which sorry mines taking so long I have been a little bit of every where and redesigning the mechanics behind the system seemed to be required before I could continue.