Mythos Homebrew Discussion III: Grievous Imbalance Is A Feature

[SirBellias]

At level five, wouldn't you still just be medium size? Or is this a long-term prospect?

Yeah, just medium size. You have to have goals, though, besides Murdering the Gods and Toppling their Thrones. It may get in the way of the campaign as planned (escape the Underdark), but being fairly conspicuous is kind of the point of the class, if I remember correctly. So I'm going to try it and see what happens.

Edit: Also, I'm assuming that the reason there are stat bonuses called out in the MONUMENT TO A HEAVEN RAINING BLOOD and HOPE-BANISHING BRASS COLOSSUS Mythos is because you don't get the stat changes from a natural size change like the Mythic Kobold suggests you do. Is that a fair assumption? It seems a bit cheesy to assume otherwise.

[Rogthnor]

Has anyone done a mythic artificer? Since these are exalted inspired it seems like we'd need alchemicals

[roko10]

Has anyone done a mythic artificer? Since these are exalted inspired it seems like we'd need alchemicals

I have one, but I'm struggling to make new Mythos for it.

[PeacefulOak]

I have started updating the eoteras, link in my signature. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[ThreadNecro5]

So, the Chrimatia is dead, for now at least, I've ran out of ideas.

I'm starting work on the Típoparchi that I have mentioned a few times in the past. I'm stuck when it comes to banner characters for the concept of oblivion and nothingness.

Tipoparchi Titan lore:

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The Titans were living stories, each defined itself by a legend of their own writing before being stuck into the cosmic foundation of existence. The Young One was not like this. It didn’t -couldn’t- define itself. In a fit of desperation one day, desperate to be something, tore itself open to pull something out. It failed. It kept going, tearing deeper and deeper inside until it ran out of more to tear free and so continued to wrench apart its hollowness thirsting for something to live by. One time when it again failed to pull something out, it did not fail. It found nothing. It was Nothing. The Nothing would have been born this instant if it existed.

In the primordial chaos before law there was a space where nothing happened. This void was the full stop at the end of the legend, the all consuming singularity that was ‘The end.’ that spread into one tale after another as more began and grew. In the end the final fate of the One Who Became Nothing was ever in question, was it consumed by the nothing within and undone?, or did it truly achieve its one dream of becoming and mark its legend on the universe?

My current list is:
Manus - Dark Souls (video game)

Psion Minmax - Goblins (webcomic)

Gluttony - Fullmetal Alchemist (animae)

[Temotei]

I'm stuck when it comes to banner characters for the concept of oblivion and nothingness.

Sithis would be a good one, from The Elder Scrolls series (of video games). Here's a link to lore.

There's probably something in Yu-Gi-Oh!, right? I don't know the show past season 1 very well, and it's been a long time since I've seen any of it period, so I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

EDIT: Oh, and Xemnas, from Kingdom Hearts, has power over nothingness.

Googling it gives this page. If you scroll down to known users, you can look at all of those names and see if any fit.

[vasharanpaladin]

There's probably something in Yu-Gi-Oh!, right? I don't know the show past season 1 very well, and it's been a long time since I've seen any of it period, so I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

Darkness ("Nightshroud" in the dub) is literally described as representing the "darkness of nihilism." Despair, oblivion and nothingness here.

[ThreadNecro5]

Thank you to those who have offered suggestions. I have narrowed things down to the following for the banner:

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Manus - Dark Souls (video game)

Psion Minmax - Goblins (webcomic)

Nightshroud - Yu-Gi-Oh GX (Anime)

Sithis - The Elder Scrolls (video game series).

Xemnas, - Kingdom Hearts (video game series).

Chakravartin - Asura’s Wrath (Video game)

Cream - JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure (Anime)

Baraggan Louisenbairn - Bleach (Anime)

In terms of how the base chassis of the class is developing Below I will post the two class features that diverge from the standard Mythos setup (they are still mid-development, with areas I'm currently working on denoted by a ?). Suggestions are welcome.

Unto Nothing

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The legend of the Nothing is one of slow endless grind to oblivion and the void beyond, and its story is not of happenings, or even endings, but off ever pervasive nothing. Thus each Mythos has an ability not unlike a Manifestation called a Degradation that is unique to to and is an expansion off its effects, but taking it comes at a cost, a limitation as the Tipoparchi looses some aspect of themselves to the legend. Taking a Mythos’ Degradation is a free action that may be taken at any time.

Additionally as the legend of Nothing suffices the Tipoparchi the land around them begins to degrade as they do, this is represented by some Mythos having the [Void] label. These Mythos have effects that are part of an aura granted by this class feature with a size equal to the Tipoparchis class level + the number of Degradations they have taken X10.

Additionally a Tipoparchi gain a Natural Armour bonus to AC equal to ?

Cease to Be

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At 1st level, a Tipoparchi is immune to the harm caused by contact with a Sphere of Annihilation, able to move through it as if it was not there, all items they carry also benefit form this immunity. Additionally they gain a +4 bonus on saving throws to resist Energy Drain and to remove Negitive Levels.

At 3rd level, they gain immunity to Energy Drain and Negative Levels. Additionally ?

At 5th level, they ?

[vasharanpaladin]

Chakravartin's mantra is Creation, aka the opposite of nothing.

[ThreadNecro5]

Chakravartin's mantra is Creation, aka the opposite of nothing.

True, I was focussing mostly on the final battle with the whole 'will destroy the word and everyone on it' thing, a Chakravartin style build would have Broken [Mythic Patron] Amalgam or something. That and in the final battle Chakravartin and it's abilities use an aesthetic that I felt appropriate to the Típoparchi. He was also listed on the page Temotei linked to.

[Lanth Sor]

The Magos is officially available ill be updating with new mythos soon. Please help with balance.

[TimeLegend]

I don't know if anyone remembers but I've added some Mythos to the Steel Emporer Forge Master and improved the Immemorial Mythos of that class. I decided that it did need a little more power from what it originally had for such a high slot of mythos it was.

Link

[NineOfSpades]

Currently building up the Aedifex A location-centric mythos class for those who think that world-building should be more literal. Most of the barebones are there, though obviously still plenty of fleshing out to do. If you've got a few minutes to take a look, stop by and feel free to give some feedback.

[Yasahiro]

Have there been any plans or attempts made to port Mythos classes to 5e? I'm struggling with thinking of sub classes for them

[Lanth Sor]

Not 100% but from what I've seen, 5E seems like a bad fit for them specially the STR based maddness of the teramach, if you completely reworked some of the bonuses maybe but base not so much.

[Jakman217]

Considering that the two backbones of the mythos classes (IMO) are overpowered highly thematic abilities, and overpowered but by RAW valid builds, I'd say that 5e conversions are highly unlikely.

20 bucks says that if you do it yourself no one will complain though.

[Valerem]

So, question. In the Bellator thread, I saw mention of 'Cross-Mythos Feats'... what are these, and where can they be found?

[Xefas]

So, around Christmas, the motherboard in my PC blew out. I dunno the extent of the damages beyond that, but my computer was pretty old anyhow, so I'm going to wait and save up until I can afford a new rig, and then we'll see if my harddrives survived. All my RPG stuff was on them - hundreds of systems, lots of homebrew, and campaign information going back 10+ years. Sucks! Can't get at them. My phone is my whole internet right now (and public library computers).

But I've still got creative juices. And I've got paper. And I've got pencils. So, I'm going to write. And then I can transfer anything of note back onto a computer once I have one. And I don't see any point in writing for, or rewriting, content that is currently in harddrive limbo. Doesn't feel good. Best to do something new and different.

How do we feel about Mythos as its own setting with its own ruleset?

Something made for not-D&D is always going to be less popular than something made for D&D, I accept that, but in terms of quality, I think there are advantages in the relinquishing of baggage both mechanical and setting. Thoughts?

So, question. In the Bellator thread, I saw mention of 'Cross-Mythos Feats'... what are these, and where can they be found?

In a spoiler over here.

[Zale]

How do we feel about Mythos as its own setting with its own ruleset?

Something made for not-D&D is always going to be less popular than something made for D&D, I accept that, but in terms of quality, I think there are advantages in the relinquishing of baggage both mechanical and setting. Thoughts?

I'm sorry to hear about your computer! It must be really crushing to lose all of that. I'd be utterly distraught.

I honestly feel like moving onto something not shackled by the conventions of D&D would only be good for Mythos stuff.

I mean, it works great now, but I can only imagine how much better off it would be if it weren't applying patches to an already patchwork TTRPG.

[Valerem]

How do we feel about Mythos as its own setting with its own ruleset?

Something made for not-D&D is always going to be less popular than something made for D&D, I accept that, but in terms of quality, I think there are advantages in the relinquishing of baggage both mechanical and setting. Thoughts?

As someone who is trying to make their own D&D Revamp and Setting, so basically it's own system. WITHOUT having a lot of homebrew that has amazing fluff and crunch, and tons and tons of support from people... I say go for it!

In a spoiler over here.

Damn.... thank you very much.

Let's a see what I can do with these...

[VoodooPaladin]

Something made for not-D&D is always going to be less popular than something made for D&D, I accept that, but in terms of quality, I think there are advantages in the relinquishing of baggage both mechanical and setting.

If it could be done better outside of D&D, then it should be. I'd be happy to read anything you want to put out, even if it entails having to learn a new system.

[Xefas]

Alright, so I've done some thinking, and I'm getting an idea of some of the mechanical features I want to have in, working title: Mythopoeia.

I'll talk about one in particular, by first going into the problem I believe that it alleviates. In many non-D&D RPGs, there is a mechanical incentive to state who your character is, and then roleplay what you've stated. For example, in Burning Wheel, you don't have to take a trait that says your character is a drunkard. But if you do choose to take that trait, you get [Stuff] for actually playing a drunkard, especially when you play a drunkard even when it makes it harder for your character to achieve their goals.

I think this is cool. It rewards a player for taking what they find interesting about their character and then unleashing it onto the story to hopefully make it more interesting, too. But, one thing that I have never seen addressed in any of the ridiculous amount of RPGs I've hoarded over the years, is a mechanic that does this for a character's traits that require other players to react to them in order to be fulfilled.

For example, say Player A is playing an old, wise, sagely sort of character. And Player B is playing a young, headstrong badass. Player A actually wants to be acknowledged as being sagely. He dispenses sagely advice to Player B, which probably involves Player B briefly acting not reckless and headstrong. Player B doesn't give a ****, because his character is faaar too young and headstrong to listen to that. On the flipside, Player B wants his edgy recklessness to inspire a reasonable amount of fear and concern in his party members. But Player A already feels left out because the kind of character he wants to play isn't being supported, so he says his character is far too old and grizzled to give a **** about Player B's recklessness. Now both players are frustrated, they may yet escalate until it becomes problematic for everyone at the table, and suddenly Avatar: The Last Airbender doesn't have Iroh and Zuko in it.

So, I want a mechanic where a player can say "I want X trait of my character to be occasionally acknowledged by the party." and that does not force - never, at all forces - but provides a small incentive for the other players to occasionally acknowledge that trait when it makes sense to them. After all, most of the time Zuko ignores his uncle's advice and does dumb **** anyway, and most of the time Iroh just rolls his eyes. But occasionally Zuko admits that his uncle was right all along because he is indeed very wise (even if no one is around), and Iroh does occasionally break down and show a great deal of unrestrained concern about his nephew's physical and emotional well-being.

I'm thinking of calling this Mythic Resonance. When two Mythic beings play into each others' stories as the Titans did, they gain power.

Some examples might be - When a character lets it be known, directly or indirectly, that they fear the Teramach's darkest self, or when they comfort the Teramach after they have done something horrifying while in a Rage, they achieve Mythic Resonance. When a character defers to the leadership of the Cynosure, or submits a gift to them for their favor, they achieve Mythic Resonance. When a character is struck with awe and wonder at the acts of the Anakitos, or loses to them in a contest of skill, they achieve Mythic Resonance.

But you only get the Resonance bonus once every X period of time. So there's no incentive to constantly be bending over backwards for someone else if it doesn't make sense for you to do so. But, every once in a while, when the time is right, you can make the Hulk's player feel good by having your Tony Stark thank god that he's on your side.

Thoughts?

[PeacefulOak]

That sounds really interesting as a role playing reward mechanic. It encourages participation in the narrative of other characters, and also encourages a degree of character growth.

Are you thinking of staying D20 based in this system?

I had been thinking for a while that this subset of brew deserves to be a system. I'm excited that you are still invested in this.

[Xefas]

Are you thinking of staying D20 based in this system?

Probably not. I want something with a curve, and likely smaller numbers. I've poked around anydice.com before, looking at different dice distributions, but at the end of the day it's probably going to be something with d6s. Everyone has d6s, and they're small, and they can make a curve.

Other thoughts I've had:

- Classes, but no levels. But Mythos will still have 'Tiers', so the gaming group can decide if they want to play as merely badass adventurers, exalted-tier earthshakers, or if they want to murder the gods and topple their thrones. Or whatever. And they can decide when they want to 'level up' to the next tier. And, ideally, there can be some form of advancement near-indefinitely at each Tier, or at least for quite a long time. Advancement, without levels, will largely be the accumulation of more Mythos.

- Perhaps some hybrid of hit points and a kind of injury system. Hit points alone are so swingy in D&D that I don't think they provide the kind of tension that I want. With hit points, you operate at full strength until you suddenly die (or lose consciousness), and while I like Anthols having healing powers, because recovering from wounds that would cripple a mortal is awesome and thematic, I feel like recovering from hit point loss doesn't feel all that great because missing those hit points wasn't doing anything to you in the first place.

On the other hand, I don't want an injury system that's too, uh, realistic, I suppose. Getting run through with a sword isn't something an Anthol should want, but I don't want to encourage a death spiral, whereby an injury inflicts a persistent penalty such that whoever takes the first real hit is facing a certain loss because their numbers can't keep up. In an evenly matched duel, I'd ideally like some back-and-forth, rather than an early decisive blow.

So I gotta think about how to do that.

- Cosmology-wise, I'm envisioning a hollow metal sphere. Running as a horizontal disk across the middle is the mortal world. Suspended from the bottom of the flat world are a series of tremendous chains, each holding up a single country-sized prison personalized to contain the Titan within. The sun, moon, and stars are attached to the inside face of the sphere, and rotate on a vast firmament mechanism, which the mortals perceive as the sky. When the sun dips beneath the horizon, it is moving under the world, creating day for the Titan-prisons held there, while the moon brings night above, and vice versa. The sun, moon, and (some of the) stars are the slumbering places for the Lawgivers, who are no longer active in the world, for each their own reason. Of the Titan's prisons, the mad Empyrean's hangs lowest, such that he is scorched by the passing of the sun each day.

On the outside of the sphere, at the very top is the City of the Gods where the Gods and their servants reside. Their sky is a storm of chaos, run through with the crystalline structure of the Betwixt, which separates them from the Beyond.

Seeing as how this is a setting where magic is not the answer to everything, movement between each realm is possible by physical, extraordinary means. A person can find (or dig) a stairwell leading from the Overworld down to its underside, and then climb down one of the chains to a Titan's prison. They can also climb one of the pillars that supports the firmament, then punch through the top of the firmament into the City of the Gods, or else sail to the end of the world and climb up the side. No one has ever done any of those things, and they're impossible, but there you go. The City of the Gods also has transport rails up to Betwixt (for reasons). And once you're there, the rules of reality have abraded to the point where you can jump into the sky and fall into the Beyond.

I would draw an MSpaint illustration for you all. But, y'know. Phone. Hopefully my explanation makes sense.

[Jakman217]

Probably not. I want something with a curve, and likely smaller numbers. I've poked around anydice.com before, looking at different dice distributions, but at the end of the day it's probably going to be something with d6s. Everyone has d6s, and they're small, and they can make a curve.

*snip*

If you don't mind a bit of input I'd suggest taking a look at GURPS a bit, not for it's major systems, but mostly for it's rolling mechanics. I particularly think it's difficulty system is quite good, since it's a roll under and the difficulty levels are just + or - to your roll flat.

I could also see using some inspiration from it for damage stuff, but I'd say there'd probably need to be a scaling factor to increase the probably too low health. It has the ability to break limbs and cripple body parts and could probably be used for some inspiration.

As for the rest of GURPS, I'd say that's up to you.

[khadgar567]

If you don't mind a bit of input I'd suggest taking a look at GURPS a bit, not for it's major systems, but mostly for it's rolling mechanics. I particularly think it's difficulty system is quite good, since it's a roll under and the difficulty levels are just + or - to your roll flat.

I could also see using some inspiration from it for damage stuff, but I'd say there'd probably need to be a scaling factor to increase the probably too low health. It has the ability to break limbs and cripple body parts and could probably be used for some inspiration.

As for the rest of GURPS, I'd say that's up to you.

he allready using exalted as main design chasis

[Kymme]

How do we feel about Mythos as its own setting with its own ruleset?

Something made for not-D&D is always going to be less popular than something made for D&D, I accept that, but in terms of quality, I think there are advantages in the relinquishing of baggage both mechanical and setting. Thoughts?

I'll admit, there is a great deal of appeal in playing in a party balanced between Mythos and Full Casters and Psions and Artificers and having general high-op wackiness. I love the idea of being in a world where the party Bellator can outfight anything that the full casters can summon and lives in a one-man-army league of his own in a world of trolls and goblins. I love the idea of characters gaining powers that dovetails together disparate feats from dozens of sourcebooks in a graceful way that makes them effective and fun. Games like that excite me in ways that other games don't. Mythic games are my favorite types of games. I've even tried to run a few, much to my undoing. I'd love to see Mythos continue in the way that it is now.

However, none of the fascinating mechanics or screw-spellcasters atmosphere is what really got me invested in this system. I think the first thing that attracted me to this entire 'project' (I guess you could call it that) was the bright light at the heart of it all - its creator. You're a brilliant writer, Xefas, and anything that lets me read more of your work is something altogether wonderful and awesome. You can do whatever the heck you want and I'll follow like a starving sycophant so long as I can read it.

tl;dr? You do you, man.

[PeacefulOak]

he allready using exalted as main design chasis

From my understanding, he used Exalted as inspiration for the classes as they came into being. The idea now is to take the mythos classes as designed for 3.5 D&D, and port them over into a new unique system that meets the story elements of the anthol concept while maintaining a mechanism for resolving challenges and conflict.

[khadgar567]

From my understanding, he used Exalted as inspiration for the classes as they came into being. The idea now is to take the mythos classes as designed for 3.5 D&D, and port them over into a new unique system that meets the story elements of the anthol concept while maintaining a mechanism for resolving challenges and conflict.

my option dont port it but its xefas's brain child so he can do what ever the f he wants.

[Valerem]

Will admit, it would be a shame if we never get all the other classes from Xefas in 3.5. The Cynosure (Even if I have to wonder why all these's villains have Kamia in their line up). Ophidian (Mythos Rogue I'm guessing). Epistemian (World warping!). Epicurean (Mythos Bard). Secretary (The Name alone is hilarous). Katalixi (become the Repear). Katametritis (Art and Battle!). Agapon (Heart is an Awesome Power!). Athrastos (Like the Bellator, I guess?). Drakontas (MOTHER****ING MYTHOS DRAGON). Amyitos (Cartoons Bitch!) and the Michanikos (Mythos Engineer)

That's 12' classes that are said to be in the line. The seven we do have is great, fantastic even. But not even 50% of the entire list... so whilst I do love the idea of Xefas going forth and making his own system, breaking away from D&D to make his own game and lore. I am going to be sad if we never actually get to see any of these other classes in 3.5 form. Plus, from what Xefas has said, I'm not sure if I'll be willing to play the game. Admittedly, I liked Shadow Run, so the d6 system doesn't sound like a bad idea. But the idea of classes without level's is just... odd for me.

I do love the idea of Mythic Resonance through, the reminder that D&D has the issue that if you decide to play a Dunkard, you don't get any mechanical incentive for it, so the crunch classes with the fluff of the character is an important one I'm going to have to think on and acknowledge in my own remake...