Mythos Homebrew Discussion III: Grievous Imbalance Is A Feature

[UrsusArctos]

Hi everyone. I'm a huge fan of the Mythos subsystem, and I am currently working on a Mythic Monk, and I am worried that it might occupy the same space as a Termach on paper. I'm thinking of using Perfection, as in the perfection of self, as an ideal for it and contrasting the flavor of a zen warrior to the angry barbarian, but both are unarmed and unarmored.

[7th son of sons]

Hi everyone. I'm a huge fan of the Mythos subsystem, and I am currently working on a Mythic Monk, and I am worried that it might occupy the same space as a Termach on paper. I'm thinking of using Perfection, as in the perfection of self, as an ideal for it and contrasting the flavor of a zen warrior to the angry barbarian, but both are unarmed and unarmored.

Plenty of mythos classes are "Unarmed" and "Unarmed". Off the top of my head, The Teramach, The Kathados, The Epifovian, and (to an extent) The Kreikiri, all fall into that distinction. So long as the overall flavor and feel of it is something new, you should be A-Ok.

[spwack]

The Kathodos is currently the Mythic rework of the Monk, with an elemental bend, while the Bellator focuses solely on combat. The Anakitos would so far be the closest thing to having 'Perfection' as an ideal, but fueled by arrogance. Nothing so far has any sense of humility, as far as I can tell.

[Tanuki Tales]

So, since as of late I'm more an idea man than an execution guy (unholy trinity of apathy, depression and a full time job making it very unlikely I'll ever Brew again...for the forseeable future), throwing this out there for someone to work with:

Spoiler: Mythic Ranger

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I already had an idea that their Mythos would be split between 3 types; Hunter Mythos, Tamer Mythos and Slayer Mythos

Hunter Mythos would give them bonuses on Survival checks, Diplomacy for Gather Information, etc. for each they have, to represent being at passively getting better at pursuing prey
Tamer Mythos would give them bonuses on interacting with a few creature types, to represent them at understanding, empathizing with and training their companions and other creatures
Slayer Mythos would give them bonuses on Knowledge checks, Stealth checks and anything that helps them kill stuff

Some ideas I had for actual Mythos/Excellencies would be: getting Favored Terrain as a Ranger, but you get half the bonus in all other Favored Terrains.
Getting Hide in Plain Sight and Pass without a Trace, along with knowing when you're being tracked
Getting a good bonus on Survival checks to track, ignoring penalties for weather and time conditions and casting Augury to know where/what your quarry plans to do next
Automatically always find enough sustenance, shelter and other necessities, as long as the environ you're in could even possibly support life
Animal Companion, beefed up, with options to have multiple companions (at lower effective levels for abilities) or use yourself (at a lower effective level)
Use something like Locate Object for something you've both seen and injured
Ignore defensive traits, based on Knowledge check results

Spoiler: Mythic Shapeshifter

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Also just got an idea for a Mythic Shapeshifter, which would revolve around always adapting and being impossible to put down
With a capstone Mythos being that if the character is killed by something that normally would make it deader than deadest dead, it would still come back, with some level loss, because it rebuilt itself from a parallel timeline where it DIDN'T die

So even a Teramach can't kill it ;P

Well, without trouble. I'm thinking the thing would just give it Negative levels each time it functions, so you COULD probably wipe it out, given enough effort

Just pondered this one up like...20 minutes ago, while the Mythic Ranger concepts I've been stewing on for a few days. Maybe it could also gain other Mythos' classes Mythos/Excellencies in some capacity or emulate them or something?

[ThreadNecro5]

It has been a while since I last checked in, but I am continuing with an idea I had a while back.

well, for a mythos I am planning I am planning to base mechanics on a feat I have herd of that grants the character ownership of an area of land that increases with level, can anyone tell me if such a feat actually exists?

For context it is for a mythos chain that essentially turns the character into a half-gold dragon whose breath weapon turns things into golden statues which can either be used for money, or animated and used as servants in a limited area.

[Temotei]

well, for a mythos I am planning I am planning to base mechanics on a feat I have herd of that grants the character ownership of an area of land that increases with level, can anyone tell me if such a feat actually exists?

Landlord is the closest I can think of. It's in Stronghold Builder's Guide. Basically you get an allowance for land only and you buy the land with the allowance. The amount you get increases with level.

[Jakman217]

Hey guys, I love this mythos stuff.

Have you considered moving it from these forums onto a wiki of some kind. It would be a lot nicer on everyone in the long run, and would give better version control. If you want help with it I'd be glad to volunteer helping set it up.

If you're interested just message me and I'll get to work.

I've been wanting to try my hand at mythos classes also. I've been contemplating something like a more morally neutral Dinyomi as I love the concept but hate how it is nearly impossible to be a good character.

[vasharanpaladin]

Solution: Never use D&D alignment. Use the Color Wheel instead or, better still, let players define their own morality.

Ganondorf did nothing wrong.

[ImperatorV]

I've been wanting to try my hand at mythos classes also. I've been contemplating something like a more morally neutral Dinyomi as I love the concept but hate how it is nearly impossible to be a good character.

I don't see anything about the Dinyomi that would force one to be non-good. Glory-hogging, yes. Prideful, yes. But neither of those are things a good character cannot be.

Granted, if you want to play the fluff of some of the mythos to the fullest, being good would be challenging. But it's just that: a challenge. And who better to overcome a challenge, then the Dinyomi?

[Jakman217]

Solution: Never use D&D alignment.

Hah, no. I have no problem with the alignment system as it stands, only that people see it as a straight jacket to pidgeonhole themselves. I also don't default to subjective alignment as unless the setting is specifically made that way. There is an absolute objective morality to the D&D lore (even if DM's don't follow it perfectly). It could do with an additional 'positive' and 'negative' modifier, but that's adding detail that you could do yourself and I generally cover that with a lean to another alignment.


As to ImperatorV, let me put it more bluntly. A Dinyomi who isn't an A-hole. Most of the Dinyomi's abilities are focused on being a glory-hogging, hubris infused (prideful is not strong enough of a word) jerk. It is far more difficult to be a nice guy. You may be able to squeeze a LG character out of it, but he's guaranteed to be a jerk. I want a character who can gain power without crushing his subjects and minions underfoot, one who can seek to give all who stand with him glory rather than take it for himself. The character wouldn't be 'THE CONQUEROR', but 'THE KING' or 'THE LEADER'. They wouldn't have a frail ego, or try to hog the glory, but would seek to be the best. He may have abilities dependent upon how other's see him, but it wouldn't penalize him. I think it's best to sumerize with a quote from Hemingway.

“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.”

This quote would be the heart of the character, and being a jerk would be entirely up to the player's methods rather than the abilities he's given.

[ImperatorV]

As to ImperatorV, let me put it more bluntly. A Dinyomi who isn't an A-hole. Most of the Dinyomi's abilities are focused on being a glory-hogging, hubris infused (prideful is not strong enough of a word) jerk. It is far more difficult to be a nice guy. You may be able to squeeze a LG character out of it, but he's guaranteed to be a jerk. I want a character who can gain power without crushing his subjects and minions underfoot, one who can seek to give all who stand with him glory rather than take it for himself. The character wouldn't be 'THE CONQUEROR', but 'THE KING' or 'THE LEADER'. They wouldn't have a frail ego, or try to hog the glory, but would seek to be the best. He may have abilities dependent upon how other's see him, but it wouldn't penalize him. I think it's best to sumerize with a quote from Hemingway.

“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.”

This quote would be the heart of the character, and being a jerk would be entirely up to the player's methods rather than the abilities he's given.

So more of a King Arthur than an Alexander the Great, eh? That, indeed, might take another class.

Also, I'm giving myself Fate/Zero flashbacks. Need to watch that again sometime.

[Jakman217]

So more of a King Arthur than an Alexander the Great, eh? That, indeed, might take another class.

Also, I'm giving myself Fate/Zero flashbacks. Need to watch that again sometime.

Absolutely, a leader you want to follow rather than have to follow. I think it would be fair to give some 'dominating' effects, but they would be for the darker side or emergencies.

I do have a class that follows this idea better, but it's not done like a mythos class and its basically a defensive bard/knight hybrid.

And that's a great series.

[roko10]

Hey guys, I love this mythos stuff.

Have you considered moving it from these forums onto a wiki of some kind. It would be a lot nicer on everyone in the long run, and would give better version control. If you want help with it I'd be glad to volunteer helping set it up.

If you're interested just message me and I'll get to work.

I've been wanting to try my hand at mythos classes also. I've been contemplating something like a more morally neutral Dinyomi as I love the concept but hate how it is nearly impossible to be a good character.

The Agios manages to fulfil that quota quite well.

In fact, though, that's the problem with Mythos classes. Out of the 15 made, only 1 is geared for Good. The others are either too full of themselves, downright geared for capital E Evil, or just focused on something not based on the alignment system.

[Heliomance]

Is there a newbie's guide to basic Mythos mechanics anywhere? I've looked at a few threads before, and haven't been able to make head or tails of them.

[Temotei]

Is there a newbie's guide to basic Mythos mechanics anywhere? I've looked at a few threads before, and haven't been able to make head or tails of them.

Not as far as I can remember. Each class has the mechanics (generally just underneath the table), but what in particular is getting you?

[Jakman217]

The Agios manages to fulfil that quota quite well.

In fact, though, that's the problem with Mythos classes. Out of the 15 made, only 1 is geared for Good. The others are either too full of themselves, downright geared for capital E Evil, or just focused on something not based on the alignment system.

I actually like that about most of the mythos classes, but I feel it's a bit unbalanced in that it's so difficult to play a good or nice character with these. I may play evil more than good, but playing a good character just feels right sometimes. Good in that they could be actually praised as heroes without any massive horrendous flaws.


But again I'll repeat my real question for the powers that be in this group. If I made a wiki for this collection would you guys use it? I'd gladly help you all with it, set it up, and help maintain it. It wolud make thinks so much nicer for everyone involved.

[Heliomance]

Not as far as I can remember. Each class has the mechanics (generally just underneath the table), but what in particular is getting you?

I don't remember offhand. It's been a while since I looked. I just remember looking at some of the classes and realising it was a whole subsystem, and that so far as I could tell the classes assumed knowledge of the subsystem.

[Temotei]

I don't remember offhand. It's been a while since I looked. I just remember looking at some of the classes and realising it was a whole subsystem, and that so far as I could tell the classes assumed knowledge of the subsystem.

Each class describes how it works. In the Bellator's entry, for example, the pieces you'd want to look at would be "The Iron Mythos" and "Mythos Known" for the Mythos themselves. For Excellencies, you'd look at "A Warrior's Excellence," and for the class features other than Mythos and Excellencies, "Equipment Mastery."

Basically:

1. All that stuff about stories, Lawgivers, Gods, and Titans is fluff. If it distracts you, glaze over it until you see anything resembling mechanics. If you're interested in the fluff, go here and here. It's based on the Exalted system.

2. Mythos are abilities you acquire at a rate shown in the class table. The Bellator knows two Mythos at 1st level, and selects those two from the list of Exceptional Mythos in post #2.

3. Mythos are generally at-will abilities, though there are exceptions. Sometimes they grant feats, sometimes they grant new abilities, and sometimes they improve on your previous abilities by giving more options. Generally, a Mythos will have a profound effect on how you play a Mythos character.

4. Excellencies are abilities you acquire at a rate shown in the class table. The Bellator knows a single Excellency at 1st level, and selects that one from the list of Excellencies in post #5.

5. Excellencies tend to have less pronounced effects compared to Mythos. They serve to supplement a Mythos class's Mythos with bonuses and sometimes new abilities that are simply not active enough to be Mythos. Generally, an Excellency will have a relatively minor effect on how you play a Mythos character.

6. A Mythos class has at least one way to gain "Mythos points." A Bellator gains Mythos points by training and destroying equipment through this training. The equipment's value is translated directly into Mythos points. Some Mythos grant additional methods for acquiring Mythos points.

7. Mythos points may be spent on gaining additional Mythos or Excellencies. The costs are given under "Mythos Known" and, in the Bellator's case, "A Warrior's Excellency." Spending Mythos points is a voluntary action, and so they need not be spent immediately upon receiving them.

8. Each Mythos class also receives a number of features separate from Mythos and Excellencies. The Bellator receives "Equipment Mastery," which prevents fatigue from sleeping in armor and grants Quick Draw as a bonus feat at 1st level. Generally, one of these class features will have a smaller effect on how you play a Mythos character than Excellencies will (but should not be ignored--think the warblade's "battle" features).

EDIT: In case you started reading my post as soon as I posted it, I added a couple more points on gaining Mythos and Excellencies over and above the class table's granted number.

In addition to all of the above, a couple of classes have one or two additional caveats. The Kathodos, for example, has Mythos associated with the four classical elements and additional [Internal] or [External] tags, which have a few rules associated with them. Make sure you read each entry in detail before moving on to Mythos.

[Kymme]

But again I'll repeat my real question for the powers that be in this group. If I made a wiki for this collection would you guys use it? I'd gladly help you all with it, set it up, and help maintain it. It wolud make thinks so much nicer for everyone involved.

I would definitely use something like that. Also, I'd be happy to provide assistance in setting up such a wiki. I don't really know how one goes about making one, but I'm willing to learn (plus I'm pretty good at copy-pasting stuff).

[Jakman217]

I'm mostly asking to build the wiki for everyone's sake, creators and users alike, rather than doing it and assuming support. I'd rather not be that guy.

[Temotei]

I don't have any objections. I probably won't use it but my stuff (the Askopar, Quality-Muting Prowess) is free to go on there and I'll be sure to update it on the wiki whenever I do updates on GitP.

[ThreadNecro5]

Landlord is the closest I can think of. It's in Stronghold Builder's Guide. Basically you get an allowance for land only and you buy the land with the allowance. The amount you get increases with level.

Yes, that was the feat I was trying to remember. Now unfortunately I cannot find prices for land anywhere, but thank you anyway.

[Jakman217]

If there's no problems then I'll get to setting the wiki up. I'll try to keep it to those who've agreed, but I may mess up. I'll put up a link to it as soon as I get the main page up.

Also, whatever happened to the Future Mythos classes on the compendium? The one that links to the imgur with all the pictures and quotes of later classes. Are these out of date or 'the dream' to complete eventually? Because some of these seem closer to the idea I've been looking for, but seem to have already been put up and potentially have had their names changed, or have been forgotten.

[Xefas]

Also, whatever happened to the Future Mythos classes on the compendium? The one that links to the imgur with all the pictures and quotes of later classes. Are these out of date or 'the dream' to complete eventually? Because some of these seem closer to the idea I've been looking for, but seem to have already been put up and potentially have had their names changed, or have been forgotten.

I think my current average is something like one full Mythos class every ~4 months. Based on 4th Edition's lifespan, you probably won't be seeing some of those until 6th Edition rolls around.

[DracoDei]

Note to self: Explain "Cruel Mercy" excellency I invented for Teramach.

In fact, though, that's the problem with Mythos classes. Out of the 15 made, only 1 is geared for Good. The others are either too full of themselves, downright geared for capital E Evil, or just focused on something not based on the alignment system.

FWIW, the Phileotheysia's fluff leans towards Good, although doing it as LE is not too hard, and anyone who places value on their comrades isn't to hard to justify. So basically, anyone but the most die-hard of Chaotic Evil shouldn't be too hard to make work with the class?

I guess I will count that as an incentive towards actually writing it up?

If there's no problems then I'll get to setting the wiki up. I'll try to keep it to those who've agreed, but I may mess up. I'll put up a link to it as soon as I get the main page up.

When/If I get the class published feel free to copy over anything mythos-related I make.

Plus any content I make for other people's classes etc.

[Jakman217]

I'm currently trying to get to 10 posts to get post the link but I've got the home page started and got to the start of the mythos on the Askopar. So I'll post the link in a bit and you can spread that around.

To the other creators who've not responded, may I copy your stuff over so it can be edited and better consolidated and organized for everyone?

[Jakman217]

Here's the link to the home page of the Compendium. I've finished up the Askopar as well and there is a link to it there.
http://mythos-compendium.wikia.com/w...mpendium_Wikia

It's nothing too fancy, but hopefully it will improve at a decent pace.

[7th son of sons]

I'm all for having my stuff on the wiki. And don't worry y'all, the mythoc not-really-a-bad-guy is coming. Soon

[Jakman217]

I'm all for having my stuff on the wiki.

Thank you good sir, I'll be moving your material over post-haste.

And don't worry y'all, the mythoc not-really-a-bad-guy is coming. Soon

And another thank you, as the current ones are good, but a bit similar.

[Jakman217]

Boom. Dinyomi, Done.

http://mythos-compendium.wikia.com/w...notify=created

Edit: Woops. Fixed.