Mythos Homebrew Discussion III: Grievous Imbalance Is A Feature

[ThreadNecro5]

haven't been keeping up with the class but I can rate how these mythos look individually.

Been working on my fantastic mythos for the agios as there seems to be too few options for things that have nothing to do with swinging a weapon. Bolded information is new or modified. Line through is deleted

Spoiler: Leadership mythos

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Shining Shield Legionnaires
Prerequisite: -

Standing avast the bastion word of the demon horde came catapulting down the causeway as the forward scout returned. Young Sigmund's face turned grim. "Why so glum?", the mountain of a man beside him inquired. Sigmund looked to Zio, "We stand no chance against the demons we have to few men." Turning with warmth in his smile Zio declared "But you have me their is no need to worry." Sigmund looked to the massive dragon man, "You are but one man you cannot possibly hold against their entire army." Zio bellowed out a mighty laugh, "Who ever said I was alone?" his tone shifted as he pointed at the horizon. A great peel of a horn broke the silence of the country side as glare caught a shield. Then an entire wall of gleaming knights clad it silver plates. Banners waving above denoting allegiance to Zio. "I am never alone." he replied looking down upon young Sigmund


The agios gains Leadership with no limit on cohorts. However, they take a -2 to leadership score for determining cohort level. They may not have a effective leadership socre less than 2 If the agios's effective leadership score for determining level is 2 or less they may not gain any more cohorts.

Advanced
Defenders Boon: The agios grants each cohort access to either Ardent Shield Aegis or Adroit Blade Parry. The agios may not grant a mythos they do not know. The cohort does not actually know the mythos and must still take it to meet any requirements.
Guardsman's First Lesson: The agios grants each cohort access to the constant guardian and dutiful guardian feats. The feats are bonus feats that are only available for use they do not actually have these feats unless they purchased them with their own levels or through their own class features.
Teaching The Masses: The agios grants each cohort access to Golden Rule Reciprocation. The agios must have Golden Rule Reciprocation. The cohort does not know the mythos and must still take it to gain anything that requires the mythos.
"Peel of the Guardian": The agios gains the ability to call any number of followers and cohorts to him, regardless of distance. Calling them takes 1 minute and they appear out of line of sight of the agios, no closer than 1 mile away. Upon completion the determined cohorts and followers are teleported to the nearest location in a direction the agios specifies, in formation fully equipped. Specified cohorts and followers may deny the call, but the agios instantly knows if they do. This ability may only be used once per month initially. When the agios gains access to Legendary Mythos this becomes usable once per month. When the agios gains access to Exalted Mythos they may use it once per day.

So its leadership with extra but weaker cohorts and potentially buffing them or gaining the ability to concentrate a lot of bodies in one area, seems fair for a mythos and the reduced cohort level means steps are taken to avoid assorted cohort abuse.

from the wording I can pick up this is a fantastic mythos and the 'peel of the guardian' needs access to legendary mythos?

Spoiler: New Fantastic Mythos

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Still working on it ill remove this line when done

Steadfast Fortification
Prerequisite: -

The agios can as a standard action create a Aura of Impairment 30ft. Enemies cannot magically enter the Aura of Impairment, and all attempts to do so end with the enemy landing in the nearest legal space between them and their target space.

Nice ability, opens up some interesting tactical options.


As a question for anyone reading this, I have a list of banner characters for the class I am slowly working on (based on money and overall greed) that I would like an opinion on the characters picked, as well as any better suggestions anyone has. Also I need another character to add so suggestions are appreciated:

Spoiler

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Greed- Diablo
Greed- Full Metal Alchemist

Scrooge McDuck- ?

Larfleeze- DC Comics

Smaug- The Hobbit

Wario- Mario Franchise

Oryx - Destiny

[Lanth Sor]

So its leadership with extra but weaker cohorts and potentially buffing them or gaining the ability to concentrate a lot of bodies in one area, seems fair for a mythos and the reduced cohort level means steps are taken to avoid assorted cohort abuse.

I was thinking of adding a sub line requiring them to have heavy armor prof and tower shield prof or something similar as its intended that they are an extension of the character's ideals and not just random people following him.

from the wording I can pick up this is a fantastic mythos and the 'peel of the guardian' needs access to legendary mythos?

No legendary is only require for it to be usable 1/week.

Nice ability, opens up some interesting tactical options.

It may be inspired by new poppy.


Vauron I see plenty of options and as for characters, Elsa, Iceman, Killerfrost, The Snow Queen(of the orignial Fabel), Gray Fullbuster(Fairy Tail anime), Jack Frost, Lissandra(LOL), Jadis the White Witch, Kuzan(One Piece).

[DracoDei]

As a question for anyone reading this, I have a list of banner characters for the class I am slowly working on (based on money and overall greed) that I would like an opinion on the characters picked, as well as any better suggestions anyone has. Also I need another character to add so suggestions are appreciated:

Spoiler

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Greed- Diablo
Greed- Full Metal Alchemist

Scrooge McDuck- ?

Larfleeze- DC Comics

Smaug- The Hobbit

Wario- Mario Franchise

Oryx - Destiny

Well, MAYBE Rarity of My Little Pony? Probably not though since while she does have that as one of her defining characteristics, she is usually more interested in social standing than material goods and she is a rich dichotomy due to her core virtue being Generosity (I've heard at least two theories about how the two interact for her I think).

Will discuss more if requested, but for now I just want to get the idea down before I forget it and then go back to relaxing for bed (I have sleep issues).

[vasharanpaladin]

As a question for anyone reading this, I have a list of banner characters for the class I am slowly working on (based on money and overall greed) that I would like an opinion on the characters picked, as well as any better suggestions anyone has. Also I need another character to add so suggestions are appreciated:

Spoiler

Show

Greed- Diablo
Greed- Full Metal Alchemist

Scrooge McDuck- ?

Larfleeze- DC Comics

Smaug- The Hobbit

Wario- Mario Franchise

Oryx - Destiny

Ultra/Super Greed from The Binding of Isaac, Lex Luthor (deputized with an Orange ring during the Blackest Night, should tell you something), any fricking Nopon from Xenoblade.

Honorable mention goes to one Komachi Onozuka of Touhou Project fame, who actually uses money in her danmaku patterns.

[Allnightmask]

When you said greed and wealth the first guy that came to mind was Shirojiro Bertoni from Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere. He can use his wealth and command of prices to rent strength and abilities from others. It's pretty intriguing to me.

[Adam1949]

If you've ever seen Kill La Kill, Takarada is a hilarious example: he's literally so rich he sends his goons out with money as ammunition.

[khadgar567]

Scrooge McDuck- ?

If you don't know uncle scrooge term comes from the same son of a duck whose only work is how to become more richer than richest duck in freaking world( which is him by the way) by the way he is from Disney where the moana, lilo pelekai, ventus and a death star worth of characters comes from

[vasharanpaladin]

If you don't know uncle scrooge term comes from the same son of a duck whose only work is how to become more richer than richest duck in freaking world( which is him by the way) by the way he is from Disney where the moana, lilo pelekai, ventus and a death star worth of characters comes from

I believe you mean A Christmas Carol, thank you very much. The use of "scrooge" to refer to a pernicious miser vastly predates Disney and his misbegotten brood.

[roko10]

Gray Mann is also a good example. His robots run on money.

[The Tygre]

If we're still suggesting wealthy characters, there's always Choji Suitengu from the anime Speed Grapher. He's the most exorbitantly wealthy anime villain that I know, though not as flashy about it as Takarada.

[Defiantnight]

Don't mind me, popping in for another Mythos question.

What are the assumed starting age levels and starting wealth of Mythos classes (specifically the Epifovian)?

[DracoDei]

Don't mind me, popping in for another Mythos question.

What are the assumed starting age levels and starting wealth of Mythos classes (specifically the Epifovian)?

Off the cuff, without looking at anything but the Epifovian (and that not for very long).

Age:
Two ideas here.

1.)
Given that they are based around having a piece of an eternal story welded to your soul (right?) put most of them on the "Youngest" column along with the Sorcerer, Barbarian, and Rogue. Here is a link to the table I am referring to on the very small chance you actually need it.

2.)
Put them with the classes they most resemble where such exists. All others on the "Youngest" column unless their fluff implies otherwise.

Wealth:
I'd put them with the class that most resembles them as far as equipment that is iconic for them to have or that goes with their skills. Well, except for the wealth-based on which should be on a par with the Aristrocrat, if not higher... or down with the monk if you want to go for "from rags to riches"... maybe that should be an "at character creation only" excellency for them or something?

Teramach is probably down with Monk if I had to guess (needs neither armor nor weapon, not an easy part of society so the fluff of having few 'creature comforts' like a tent and bedroll fits).

Bellator would be with Fighter.

Epifovian goes with the rogue or maybe slightly lower. They have Open Lock on their skill list (and thus should have enough wealth to be able to afford a set off thieves tools if they decide to start off with points in that), and the same light armor+no shield thing as the rogue. The major difference is that the rogue gets proficiency in hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword, most of which are more expensive than simple weapons.

[Temotei]

The Askopar starts with 5d4x10 gp at a sorcerer's age.

[Bdrone]

I've been digging about in Mythos off an' on for sometime now. MY GOODNESS the wonderful stuff goin' on here. I just have to say well done who is and has worked on this, and continues to make it reality-tearingly awesome.

Each class around here blows me away in their own ways, but right now if i were to build one, its gotta be between a mounted Bellator with a healthy amount of Archery involved (wish there was a in mythos way to get some allies, but when your THAT awesome already there's limits), or an Epifovean just going nuts with a swarm of tentacle attacks and some extra help from some spine manipulated pets. The Kreikiri, Dinyomi, Askopar, and Jagannatha also stand out, even if they aren't really my style, just because of the sheer scale of what they could do or how they made me giggle with glee- i kept myself busy just trying to figure out how many bodies i would need as a Kreikiri, figuring out how to run a minion focused Dinyomi with its state mechanics, trying to leverage the Askopar's clean up the wall dash mobility design with how id play at combat normally, or balking at the awesomeness of a Jagannatha and their ability to raise an Abyssal force, though wishing they had a brass beast to ride, Juggernauts of Khorne style.

sadly, im most at home at a distance, so a lot of the combat in the Mythos doesn't at it's best for me from what i've seen. so, I guess a question to ask is- in your opinions, what are your ways to make either a brutal ranged combatant or a SUPERBLY fast and mobile one? the epifovean and Bellator are what i hit on, but what other ideas do you all see? maybe im missin' something... i just don't feel right in standard melee range.

Also, i can't wait to see whats to come. im actually quite interested in one day seeing the Epicurean (particularly) and the Epistemian should they make an appearance. I really wonder how they will play out...

[Vauron]

Well, as the Kathados is technically making unarmed attacks, not ranged attacks, you can use Elemental-Fisted Pugilist Style and all other unarmed attack boosters with Land-Strike Wrath to trivially make full attacks at range. Granted, the range isn't that far at level one, but it grows as you level. Meditating on the Elements would let you go for a fire imbalance and let you add (INT) to damage, provide Power Attack, and make your blows count as two-handed weapons for power attack. If the fan-made mythos are available, then against undead you could make use of Detritus Devouring Conflagration to increase your fire damage by 50%.


On an unrelated note, how does Omnicapable Human Spirit Ignition work with mythos classes? Specifically, the ability to buy mythos. Lets say that a human Kathados has taken OHSI and picks Teramach. Using the Excellence in Monstrosity class feature, the Kathados purchases two copies of Inhuman Constitution Proliferation. Then, the Kathados changes the class that OHSI grants. Does the Kathados still have the +6 to con? Could OHSI basically be used as a floating set of the Broken [Patron] Amalgam line?

[DracoDei]

Quick and dirty post, please tell me if I'm being socially inappropriate on any points...

Would the three homebrew ranged Disciplines that Age of Warriors came up with do the trick for a Bellator? I THINK this is the final version we ended up with...

Also, what sort of Mythic Elementalist can't shoot fire a hundred feet from his finger-tips? I mean warlocks can pull that off from first level I think (well the 100' part, the "fire" part is going to take more levels).

Getting back to Bellators and perhaps maneuvers, it seemed like the two Bellator players I had in my game were saying the class really felt starved for mythos or manifestations or something... like you basically HAD to spend a bunch of XPs on additional things to make a viable build. I may have mentioned this before, but I'm mentioning it again in case I didn't. We were at level 4, and I had given everyone about 200 XPs above the amount required to hit that level. I can probably dig up the posts and/or Skype text chat logs in question if requested?

I think my Phileotheysia may end up sorta the same way, but they have a special trick where they don't actually lose XPs when revivified, they just get put in a separate pool that can only be used for extra Phileotheysia purchases. Which really helps at higher levels, although I'd really like any input that people can provide as guidelines to suggest to GMs starting a campaigns at the levels where it becomes plausible for the overall system that a character would have been Raised at least once. I suppose that the question of "How lethal is my setting anyway?" is a good one, but I think the bigger problem may be that GMs may just be turned off by the whole concept... plus for all I know a lack of enough mythos to get the job done won't be a problem by those levels, if it ever was.

[VoodooPaladin]

The Bellator is kind of thematically built around giving up exorbitant amounts of time, money, and energy to become a really awesome fighter. Punching Death in the face isn't a cheap prospect for a dude who's technically only human.

what are your ways to make either a brutal ranged combatant or a SUPERBLY fast and mobile one?

For a Bellator, if you can find a nice ranged combat discipline and a mobility-focused discipline, you can slur their movesets together into the hit-and-run fighting style you want. In lieu of that, the Swooping Raptor school seems like the right idea, but it could use an editor. Since you said you like mounted archery, remember that with Heroic Panoply-Forging Puissance a Bellator can bang out simple items like Horseshoes of Speed in an afternoon, so you can get Mongolian all over your enemies with trivial effort.

[DracoDei]

The Bellator is kind of thematically built around giving up exorbitant amounts of time, money, and energy to become a really awesome fighter. Punching Death in the face isn't a cheap prospect for a dude who's technically only human.

Okay. I was just passing along the raw data. Since you say it is a feature, rather than a bug, I will believe you.

[VoodooPaladin]

Okay. I was just passing along the raw data. Since you say it is a feature, rather than a bug, I will believe you.

Well, that's not to say I wouldn't love to see Xefas put out more Bellator Mythos. And I don't actually know Xefas' design intent; I didn't ask him.

I don't like to shut down critique without throwing down some of my own so... the Olethrofex feels flimsy to me. It might just be that it's trying to cover a lot of potential design space, but it feels off. I can't really isolate why it feels that way, since every Mythos feels fine individually: full of contempt for life and living in all sorts of different ways. It's like the Olethrofex as a class isn't integrating right with itself in my head. It's not how I can't see how its pieces add together, it's just... got a really scattershot approach, in a way that the Teramach before it didn't have.

[spwack]

Well, that's not to say I wouldn't love to see Xefas put out more Bellator Mythos. And I don't actually know Xefas' design intent; I didn't ask him.

I don't like to shut down critique without throwing down some of my own so... the Olethrofex feels flimsy to me. It might just be that it's trying to cover a lot of potential design space, but it feels off. I can't really isolate why it feels that way, since every Mythos feels fine individually: full of contempt for life and living in all sorts of different ways. It's like the Olethrofex as a class isn't integrating right with itself in my head. It's not how I can't see how its pieces add together, it's just... got a really scattershot approach, in a way that the Teramach before it didn't have.

Well, it says only 50% complete, so that can't help. Also, it is specifically designed to have three main streams, Death, Undeath and Oblivion. The Shintai is pretty much entirely dependent on the DM, which is a pain. After reading Xefas' description of how it's supposed to work, I actually like it a lot more, but I never got that sense from the actual mythos.

Just my 2c.

[Slawth13]

So I showed up and briefly mentioned in the last thread about my work on a Mythic Psion, the Setgetzen (though as it's evolved it's really become more of the Mythic Telepath). I had fully intended to talk some more about it and comment on some other people's works then, but real life came around and started kicking my butt. But I am here again, and wanting some opinions on a particular struggle I'm having.

I'm basically taking the Collective class feature of a lot of DSP's stuff and stacking Mythos on top of it for various Mythos. For those unfamiliar with DSP's psionics, the Collective feature allows you to basically act like a psychic WiFi hub for a number of people determined by your Int modifier plus your class level.

Spoiler: Collective feature

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The Setgetzen learns to use psionic power to connect willing minds through an internal network that strengthens their psychic bonds. As a standard action, a Setgetzen can join any number of willing targets into their collective (up to their limit, see below). The Setgetzen must have line of sight to each target, each target must have a Wisdom score of at least 1, and all targets must be within Medium range (100 ft. + 10 ft. per class level). The collective can contain up to their Intelligence modifier plus their Setgetzen level creatures. The Setgetzen is always considered a member of their own collective, and does not count against this limit.

The Setgetzen can choose to remove a member as a free action on their turn, and any member can voluntarily leave the collective as a free action on their turn. Any member whose Wisdom drops to zero or who moves out of range of the collective is automatically removed. If a member enters a null psionics field, the connection to the collective is suppressed until the member leaves the field. A member who leaves the collective for any reason immediately loses any and all benefits they may have gained from being a member. A Setgetzen is aware of the status of their collective and can, roughly, sense the presence of each member, although beyond telling if such a creature is still a member, this has no mechanical benefit until certain Mythos have been obtained.

A Setgetzen can manifest certain powers through their collective. If a Setgetzen power specifies one or more willing targets (or is harmless) and has a range greater than personal, he can manifest this power on a member of their collective regardless of the range of the actual power. All other non-range restrictions still apply. They may manifest any power with the Network Descriptor this way, regardless of their actual ranges or targets. If they are capable of manifesting powers or casting spells from a different class (as is the case for a multiclass Setgetzen), any compatible spell or power with a range greater than touch can also be used through the collective.
If a member of the collective dies, the member is removed from the collective and the Setgetzen must make a Fortitude save (DC 15) or lose 1 power point for every Hit Die of the fallen member or be sickened for an equal number of rounds.

At 7th level, a Setgetzen’s collective range is doubled, and the Setgetzen may have a number of creatures in it equal to 1.5 x their Setgetzen level plus their Int modifier.

At 13th level, a Setgetzen's collective range is limitless on the same plane as the Setgetzen, and the Setgetzen may have a number of creatures in it equal to 2 x their Setgetzen level plus their Int modifier.

At 19th level, a Setgetzen's range reaches even across other planes and dimensions, and the Setgetzen may have a number of creatures in it equal to 4 x their Setgetzen level plus their Int modifier.

A Setgetzen is telepathically linked to every member of their collective, and can communicate with them freely in this manner. They can also share sensations and thoughts between other members of the collective at will.

Now I did this because the original idea was for a Mythos class that focused primarily on supporting its allies using its psionic powers, but as the concept has evolved there's also been a lot of heavily offensive Mythos that I've come up with, and I'm fairly divided on them. Let me give some examples of what I mean.

Spoiler: Exceptional Mythos

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Mind-Melding Intellect Dispersal
Prerequisites: --
When it first bloomed, the Celosia was already rooted in the minds of life throughout existence, drawing strength from them and giving it back in turn. All members of the Setgetzen’s collective gain a +1 bonus to all Intelligence-based skill checks. This bonus increases to +2 at level 4, +3 at level 8, +4 at level 12, +5 at level 16, and +10 at level 20.


Psyche-Shattering Vengeance Strike
Prerequisites: At least 7 power points
When those who dared to uproot the Celosia failed to do so, they were punished for their treachery. While you do not yet have to the ability to rupture the minds of those who oppose you, you may still revoke their assaults. Once per round, when attacked you make an opposing attacking roll. Should your attack hit, you deal an additional 1d4 psychic damage for every two levels of Setgetzen you have (minimum 1d4).

Basic manifestations
Disjointed Mind-Breaking Shockwave: Whenever you make a Psyche-Shattering Vengeance Strike, you may expend 2 power points to strike fear in your target’s heart, causing them to be shaken for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence modifier.
Surging Telekinetic Overdrive: Whenever you make a Psyche-Shattering Vengeance Strike, you may expend a number of power points up to 6. For every two power points you use, your target is pushed back 5 feet.

Spoiler: Fantastic Mythos

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Thought-as-Form Ablation
Prerequisites: At least 10 power points
The wall of thought which surrounded the Celosia after it fled was a powerful defense, one impervious to many modes of attack. Whenever you or a member of your Collective would take damage from a psionic source, you make expend a number of power points up to your Intelligence modifier x 2. You gain 1 PR for each point spent this way. This PR may be divided up amongst the members of your Collective however you please.

Advanced Manifestation
Body-Shielding Thought Shards: You may also activate Thought-as-Form Ablation when you would be dealt damage from a physical source. When activated this way, instead of gaining PR for each power point expended, you gain 1 DR for each two power points expended.


Psyche-Searing Retardation Aura
Prerequisites: Psyche-Shattering Vengeance Strike
After it fled, the Celosia constructed a barrier between it and those minds that would seek it harm. Whenever you would be the target of a melee attack, you may, as a reaction, activate this Mythos. The target of this Mythos must make a Will save. Should they make the save, nothing happens. Should they fail the save, roll 1d6 per member of your collective and add your Intelligence modifier. They take this much psychic damage; to the target of this Mythos, it feels as though their entire body is wreathed in flames. They must make an additional Will save to avoid being panicked.

Advanced Manifestations
Intellect-Devouring Rosewood Flames: Whenever you activate Psyche-Searing Aura of Retardation, you may choose to expend a quarter of your maximum power points. If you do so, instead of being panicked, the target must make a Fortitude save using their Wisdom in place of their Con. Should they fail, they take 1d4 Intelligence burn.
Mind-Piercing Pyre Thorns: Whenever you activate Psyche-Searing Aura of Retardation, you may choose to expend a quarter of your maximum power points. If you do so, instead of being panicked, the target must make a Fortitude save using their Wisdom in place of their Con. Should they fail, they take an extra d8 of fire damage equal to your Intelligence modifier.

And then the real kicker that has me unsure whether to go with the original idea of support or combat.

Spoiler: Mind-Tarnishing Rose-Thorn Shintai

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Mind-Tarnishing Rose-Thorn Shintai
Prerequisites: Psyche-Shattering Vengeance Strike, Intellectual Briar-Thorn Imbuement
When the Celosia came under attack, it struck back and ripped the minds of those who had harmed it to shreds. Their gibbering psyches and wails of maddened anguish were like poison to the Mind Flower, and it retreated from them in its horror.

You have no such issue.

A number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier, as a standard action you make a ranged touch attack. The target must make a Will save. If they succeed, they only take half damage and ignore the other effects of Mind-Tarnishing Rose-Thorn Shintai. Should they fail, they take Xd8+Y psychic damage, where X is equal to the number of creatures in your collective, and Y is the average Intelligence modifier of your collective. Additionally, the target of your attack becomes confused and sickened for a number of rounds equal to your Setgetzen level.

Advanced Manifestation
Psyche-Shredding Pistil Whip: Instead of confusing and sickening the target of your Mind-Tarnishing Rose-Thorn Shintai, you may expend half of your maximum power points to double the damage it deals.

So, tl;dr. I'm making a psychic Mythis class, can't decide if I should go mostly support or mostly combat. A friend of mine suggested I do a branching thing like the Olethrofex, but I would like some opinions.

Spoiler: Also here's the fluff I have so far

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What is a story but an idea, a thought given room to run and leap and bound away from its own restraints? Even as the earliest Titans came to be, their very essence, the very idea of thought made flesh, was the seed of yet another idea. As the Titans multiplied and minds echoed raucously throughout existence, that seed grew, and eventually bloomed into the Celosia. Rooted in the thoughts and minds of all of creation, the Celosia flourished, and spread its branches across the collective unconscious of the universe, drinking deep of the ideas and emotions of all living things.

Some, however, felt as though the Celosia was an invader, a parasite which infected the minds of others, instead of the offspring of flourishing minds through the cosmos. And so they dared to cut at its tendrils, and in response the Celosia struck back, lighting their minds ablaze and tearing them asunder. The Celosia’s roots were still ingrained in the minds of these maddened creatures, and the Titan trembled, for such brokenness was unknown to it, and was as poison to it. The Celosia retreated then, hiding itself away, the bitter taste of scorching insanity still fresh on its tongue; a taste from which it would never escape, not truly.

[Vauron]

Spoiler

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Psyche-Shattering Vengeance Strike
Prerequisites: At least 7 power points
When those who dared to uproot the Celosia failed to do so, they were punished for their treachery. While you do not yet have to the ability to rupture the minds of those who oppose you, you may still revoke their assaults. Once per round, when attacked you make an opposing attacking roll. Should your attack hit, you deal an additional 1d4 psychic damage for every two levels of Setgetzen you have (minimum 1d4).

Spoiler

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Basic manifestations
Disjointed Mind-Breaking Shockwave: Whenever you make a Psyche-Shattering Vengeance Strike, you may expend 2 power points to strike fear in your target’s heart, causing them to be shaken for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence modifier.
Surging Telekinetic Overdrive: Whenever you make a Psyche-Shattering Vengeance Strike, you may expend a number of power points up to 6. For every two power points you use, your target is pushed back 5 feet.

When does the attack resolve? Does your damage happen first? From the sound of things it goes (Enemy Attack Roll)=>(PSVS induced Attack Roll)=>(PSVS Damage)=>(Enemy Attack Roll Damage)

Spoiler: Mind-Tarnishing Rose-Thorn Shintai

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Mind-Tarnishing Rose-Thorn Shintai
Prerequisites: Psyche-Shattering Vengeance Strike, Intellectual Briar-Thorn Imbuement
When the Celosia came under attack, it struck back and ripped the minds of those who had harmed it to shreds. Their gibbering psyches and wails of maddened anguish were like poison to the Mind Flower, and it retreated from them in its horror.

You have no such issue.

A number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier, as a standard action you make a ranged touch attack. The target must make a Will save. If they succeed, they only take half damage and ignore the other effects of Mind-Tarnishing Rose-Thorn Shintai. Should they fail, they take Xd8+Y psychic damage, where X is equal to the number of creatures in your collective, and Y is the average Intelligence modifier of your collective. Additionally, the target of your attack becomes confused and sickened for a number of rounds equal to your Setgetzen level.

Advanced Manifestation
Psyche-Shredding Pistil Whip: Instead of confusing and sickening the target of your Mind-Tarnishing Rose-Thorn Shintai, you may expend half of your maximum power points to double the damage it deals.

How is this a shintai? Compare with the Teramach, Olethrofex, and Kathados Shintai. How does the change the way you play the character? I'm not saying what the mythos does is inappropriate at the moment, it just isn't a shintai.

[Slawth13]

When does the attack resolve? Does your damage happen first? From the sound of things it goes (Enemy Attack Roll)=>(PSVS induced Attack Roll)=>(PSVS Damage)=>(Enemy Attack Roll Damage)

Ah, you're right, the wording is kind of ambiguous. It's supposed to resolve the enemy attack first, and then PSVS activates. I'll rewrite that portion.

How is this a shintai? Compare with the Teramach, Olethrofex, and Kathados Shintai. How does the change the way you play the character? I'm not saying what the mythos does is inappropriate at the moment, it just isn't a shintai.

See that's sort of where I'm torn. This was supposed to be what shifted the Setgetzen from a primarily support-focused class into a strong combatant, but I ended up making a bunch of other combat Mythos and now can't decide where to go with it, whether it should stay support-oriented or if I should do the branching Mythos thing, and make this a regular Mythos and then make a new Shintai.

[DracoDei]

Well, that's not to say I wouldn't love to see Xefas put out more Bellator Mythos. And I don't actually know Xefas' design intent; I didn't ask him.

Well, design intent is a reasonable thing to wish to understand in this sort of discussion. It does occur to me to wonder if anyone has ever done much stacking up of "Zero XP Spent on extras" builds, against "10/20/30/40/50% of total XPs spent on extras" builds to compare their effectiveness on paper. Naturally, effectiveness in actual play would be superior, but with play-test data being so rare... incidentally here is a link to the OOC thread, in case I didn't give links before. From that thread links to the IC thread and (at least most of) the character sheets can be found within the first post or three.

We had a Bellator, a Teramach, a Kreikiri, and an abortive attempt at an Akastarepti.

Well, it says only 50% complete, so that can't help. Also, it is specifically designed to have three main streams, Death, Undeath and Oblivion. The Shintai is pretty much entirely dependent on the DM, which is a pain. After reading Xefas' description of how it's supposed to work, I actually like it a lot more, but I never got that sense from the actual mythos.

Just my 2c.

Off the top of my head(feeling too lazy to go look right this minute): How well does mixing and matching between the three streams work?

[Vauron]

I was worried I was unclear. It seems I was right. My issue wasn't what the mythos did, but what it didn't do. I'll bring up some shintais and bold the parts that your shintai lacked an equivalent to.

Spoiler: Untamed Apocalypse Shintai

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Untamed Apocalypse Shintai
Prerequisite: -

You gain a permanent, amplified Rage that never expires or lessens. In addition to the behavioral restrictions of a normal Rage, you may not wield weapons or tools other than unarmed attacks or improvised weapons. You automatically fail checks made to build, repair, or create something physical (something incorporeal or ethereal is still impossible, but more ephemeral, conceptual things, like an idea, song, or plan are still fair game). Craft checks are always included. You may not voluntarily heal or alleviate the suffering of another living thing. You become sterile and/or infertile, and you perfectly negate all attempts to create life from you - even such magical effects as a "Simulacrum" spell, or a deity of fertility using your genetic material to create an immaculate child independently of you; these surrogate offspring rot away into dust before they can breathe their first breath. Finally, with the exception of the occasional single round of patching one's self up, or sleeping just long enough to maintain optimal functionality, or eating enough not to starve, if you are not actively engaged in harming sapient beings or defending yourself, you must be physically moving towards a place that you believe to be inhabited by sapient beings, with intent to harm them when you get there.

An exception exists in creatures that the Monster recognizes as part of itself, rather than an external being. You are not compelled by Untamed Apocalypse Shintai to harm creatures that possess a Mythos from the Teramach class, though you are certainly free to do so if you wish, nor are you compelled to harm Familiars, Animal Companions, or Special Mounts belonging to yourself or to creatures with a Teramach Mythos.

In exchange, you may now take a total number of Swift Actions per round equal to the number of Rage effects you currently suffer from (which may all be converted to Immediate Actions as normal). Furthermore, when you kill a living thing, you gain Regeneration X (X equal the number of Rage effects you currently suffer from) until the beginning of your next turn, which is not bypassed by any kind of damage.

Once you take UAS if you aren't killing people, you must be moving towards where you believe there are people to kill. Additionally, you can create nothing anymore besides pain and the lamentations of your victms.

Spoiler: Sojourner Of A Thousand Lives Shintai

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Sojourner Of A Thousand Lives
Prerequisite: -
[Internal][Fire][Air][Water][Earth]

The Omphalos' relationship with time is not like a mortal's. It is not truly omniscient, though it might perhaps seem to cleave in that direction from a mortal perspective, perceiving most of its own existence from beginning to end as a single chain of memories, with all the inaccuracy, imperfection, and bias that a memory intails. But part of its future is dark; a great disastrous uncertainty. And it is for this purpose that, very occasionally, the Omphalos will turn its unspeaking, inscrutable will towards bending the very rules it was constructed to maintain, and withhold a dying soul from its afterlife.

These occurrences are rare; written off by the Outer Planar bureaucracy as a routine clerical error. Sometimes a soul destined to become a great Solar or Duke of Hell, or something of that kind, goes missing, and a god pops down to the Omphalos' inner machinery to check if anything has gotten stuck, but they are like toddlers staring into the workings of a great computer. Inevitably, they retreat back to their palatial estates and blame the whole affair on a rounding error.

However, in these vast mechanisms, the stolen soul is rejuvenated, relieved of its necessity to continue on to the afterlife and become one with the eternal ideological battlefield there. The custodians of the Omphalos inform the soul of its purpose and destiny, tutor it on matters that will one day become important and, eventually, send the soul backwards, back down to the Prime, where it inhabits a newborn body in place of a wholly new soul from the Positive Energy Plane. It remembers nothing. Yet. It grows into a new life, becomes a new person, makes new choices, and eventually dies again. And the process is repeated. Again and again, the soul is rejuvenated and recalled, over and over it lives, sometimes as a Kathodos, sometimes as a member of another class, other times as a simple sailor or dam-builder, once a human, once a dragon, once an orc, once a kobold, once a giant, and so on.

Eventually, the soul arrives here. It is a Kathodos, and it is ready to realize its purpose. Though great power awaits, such a choice is difficult and rarely taken once presented. To awaken as one of the Sojourners is tantamount to a death of the self, as that which the individual believes to be who they are - their various personality traits and quirks, likes, dislikes, beliefs, and ideals - is overtaken in a flood of a thousand lives just as rich and beautiful and painful and unique as their own. What's more, they suddenly remember all the trials and teachings given to them between lives, and so their scope of time stretches even further.

So varied and muddled becomes a Sojourner's personality that they effective lose their personality altogether. All traits are subsumed into the one purpose that they have been born, and born, and born ad infinitum to do; protect the Prime, protect the Inner Planes, protect the Omphalos. They have no personal desires (for every hundred lives they've had that have enjoyed doing something, perhaps they've had a hundred that disliked it), no true friends (one life of loyality is outweighed by a thousands lives that are indifferent) - they are only stoic guardians now, impartial stewards of balance.

You gain a +6 bonus to your Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores from the counsel of a thousand lives of experience. You gain a +30 competence bonus on checks with every skill, taught by a thousand lives of learning. You gain ten bonus feats of your choice, though you must meet the prerequisites for them. Finally, at (your initiative count - 10), you may act with a single standard, move, or swift action in addition to the actions you normally receive every round.

You stop being a character and become a meat robot defender of the world.

Spoiler: Angel of Death Shintai

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Angel of Death Shintai
Prerequisite: The Undead Type
[Death]

Through utmost denial of the more abominable origins of your power, you have forsaken the path of undeath and become a champion of the natural cycle. You retain all of the traits and features of the Undead type (and those granted by the Corpse-Life Apotheosis Mythos if you have it), with the following exceptions, but your actual type changes to Outsider (your native plane remains the same). The first exception is that you are now healed by both positive and negative energy, which overrides prior feats you may have, such as Tomb-Tainted Soul. Secondly, you are no longer destroyed at 0 hit points - you may be reduced to a negative hit point threshold before death, just like an Outsider. Thirdly, any immunity to mind-affecting effects that you possess through traits of your race or type, or via feats, do not function against Gods of Death (that do not also possess portfolios of Undeath), other deity-level entities aligned with Death, or the direct servants of such powers.

Furthermore, you may now see, at a glance, the remaining lifespan ordained by fate for any mortal creature with Intelligence 3 or more that you look upon that has hit dice equal to or less than (class level -4)*. This typically includes most Aberrations, Dragons, Giants, Humanoids, and Monstrous Humanoids. This time is not absolute; the actions of creatures that can alter fate, even a little, such as anyone with PC class levels, those important enough to be built with the Elite Array or better, or just particularly significant characters, can end a life prematurely. But, if all things go according to fate's plan, when a mortal's time strikes 0, something will kill them.

*For the remainder of this Mythos, the term "mortal" will refer to "mortal creature with Intelligence 3 or more".

As a servant of Death, you are barred from interceding with a mortal's natural allotment of time. Hostile actions taken with your Mythos (or by minions created by your Mythos) fail against mortals with more than a day's time left, your attacks cannot reduce them below 1 hit point, your ailments cannot push them over the threshold, and any power that you have to heal, evade, protect, or otherwise safeguard a creature fizzle in the face of Death's imminent hand if a mortal has less than a day to live.

Finally, by spending a full ten minutes in uninterrupted concentration, you may momentarily subvert time and space in one of the two following ways. In the first, you and up to (class level) willing creatures within 30ft, travel from the Prime Material Plane to an Outer Plane, or from an Outer Plane to the Prime Material Plane. If the Plane to which you are traveling hosts the domain of a deity, or other greater power, of Death, then you appear there. If it does not, then this ability functions with a margin of error as the Plane Shift spell.

In the second case, you may mentally aim for a city or other similarly sized geographical location on the same plane as yourself, either that you are familiar with or that you are capable of making a DC 30 Knowledge (Geography) check to direct yourself with (substitute Knowledge: The Plane outside of the Prime). If there is at least one mortal in that general location with less than a day to live by fate's measure, you disappear from your current location and appear somewhere near one such dying mortal (usually within 100ft or less), in the most ominous fashion possible; standing at the foot of a person's deathbed, or looking in their window as lightning flashes or the moon drifts out from behind a cloud are both very common. The mortal, whose imminent death allowed your passage, dies nearly instantly. The disease they struggle with takes them a little earlier than expected, they have a freak heart attack, a pot falls off a shelf and cracks their skull open, they fall down a flight of stairs, a nearby horse bolts from its handler and tramples them, etc, etc.

Can no longer kill those whose fated time to die isn't up. Note that generally mooks and such don't have the ability to go against fate, or anything with an INT of 2, 1, or - can be killed at whim.

[DracoDei]

1.) Hmmm... as a discussion point, I wonder if my own Shintai is enough of a burden on the character to count by your standards?

Spoiler: A bit based on the end of a particular Magical Girl Anime...

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Legendary Mythos
Unceasing Rapid-Rescue Shintai
Prerequisite: -
Every moment that you are idle is a moment when someone or something you care about is in jeopardy. Your soul refuses the necessity of travel, meaningless socialization, and the basic activities necessary to sustain life. You simply are wherever you are most needed.

Whenever you are not engaged in some activity that materially advances the protection of a cause or one or more persons that you value strongly you are simultaneously restored as if by a Heal spell and transported as per a Wish to wherever the GM decides that the most desperate need of your aid may be. Noting that any situation extreme enough you can not contribute to it materially obviously requires the aid of someone other than yourself. Thus, you might find yourself appearing near a wyrm gold dragon fighting his archnemisis, a Red Dragon who is a great wyrm, but not if the battle was happening below the surface of a lake of lava where you would almost certainly burn to death before you could even locate the combatants by sound and touch, let alone figure out what was going on.

Note also that this is not always a matter of violence. You might equally easily find yourself in the middle of a city wracked with plague, or just outside the council-chambers where the course of a nation is being debated (thus to probably talk your way in and join the debate).

You no longer require food, water, or sleep, and are immune to fatigue, exhaustion, and subdual damage that results from cold, heat, or continued exertion. You become amphibious, able to breathe water and air equally easily. The lower of your swim and land speeds increases to be equal to the higher of the two, including gaining an additional mode if you lack it. See the PHB and/or MM for the effects of having a swim speed.

If you do not have a fly speed you gain a fly speed of 30’ with Poor maneuverability.

You also gain the ability to speak a number of additional languages equal to your charisma score or your number of ranks in diplomacy, whichever is less.

You grown ever stronger, tested in the crucible of adversity. You no longer need to train to gain levels or purchase mythos, excellencies, and/or manifestations, even if that is the norm for the campaign.

Basic
Airless Rescue Flexibility
You no longer need to breath.

Household Welcomeness Stature Adjustment
Whenever you teleport via this Shintai your size (before all adjustments from other sources other than race and templates) is whatever it would otherwise be, one size larger, or one size smaller, whichever will make it most easy for you to navigate your new location. If multiple sizes are equally capable (such as in a wide open plain) you may select between them. This adjustment stacks with all other effects, including ones that state they don’t stack with anything.

Example: Thus a human with this manifestation would always arrive as small, medium, or large. If they also had Reduce Person as a permanent effect, they would instead arrive as Tiny, Small, or Medium.

Advanced
Resilient Regeneration Necessity
Whenever you are teleported by this Mythos, you also gain the benefits of a Regeneration spell, and always count as being on ground sacred to your deity for the purposes of your ability to recover from injuries, curses, etc.

Single-Minded Resolution of Purpose
You gain the effect of a Mind Blank spell, and add twice your level to all Sense Motive checks that would alter aims, or misdirect your overall actions towards those aims. Thus this bonus would not apply against feinting in combat, but would apply against an attempt for an infiltrator of a resistance movement you have joined for the moment to convince you that he is sincere in his support for the cause.

As long as there is <your cause, or opposite of your cause>...
Whenever you are slain, your body and all your equipment vanish within 1d3 rounds. 2d6 weeks later, you appear, returned to life as if by a Ressurection spell. The location is as per usual for the transportation effect of this mythos.

If you have at least one Exalted Mythos (regardless of if it is a Phileotheysia Mythos) then this effect instead duplicates True Resurrection.

2.) Who here has heard of "Nightmare Whisper, The Kindest of Lies" from the "Pony POV Series"? I'm thinking of replacing one of the images for the Phileotheysia with her, since I realized that she is one of the very few examples of ONGOING sacrifice that doesn't confine the character to an alternate dimension or similarly make them incapable of what would be "roleplay" if they were a player character.

While she is probably a better example than most of the images I currently have, she is also pretty obscure compared to them.


EDIT: I have MORE than enough Mythos and Excellencies to post the Phileotheysia. Ironically enough, the part I am most concerned about thus and haven't written up yet is the basic class abilities (the equivalents to the Teramach's 'Primitive Brutality'). Should I go ahead and post it, even without that?

[Vauron]

Yeah, its burdensome enough to count to my mind. It sounds like your Shintai fits best in a bunch of small stories or one shots. A complete work consisting of such a Phileotheysia's tale would be more along the lines of 'The Collected Legends of the Savior", rather than something like 'The Epic of (NAME)' which you'd expect from an Anakitos. That said, the manifestations feel odd to me. Not wrong, necessarily, but odd.

Honestly, of the other shintai I've read and can remember, only the Angel of Death Shintai was something I'd consider taking. Sojourner flat out turns you from a 'they' to an 'it', while Untamed is essentially a Frenzied Berzerker whose Frenzy never ends. AoDS lets you still be a character, unlike Sojourner. Can't recall any of the fanmade shintai, so I wont comment there.

[Rogthnor]

Anyone mind taking a look at my Mythic Bard? I'm having trouble deciding which mythos to put at which level, and it is badly in need of a beta.

[Bdrone]

Bit of a Summary post here... sorry if this style doesn't fit. kind of random order.

To DracoDei and Voodoopaladin: Ranged disciplines and the Bellator. I mostly play pathfinder, so i look at mythos with that in mind, and the non-supernatural limitation blocked out the bulk of path of war and the Touhou tome of battle, what my first ports of call are. that said, if i could scrounge up enough mythos buys, im debating a Sunder two hander build (for the charge and cleaving abilities when needed) linked up with archery and extra excellency to make melee range disciplines count as ranged usable to a certain degree. either that with something like Broken Blade or working on something like Tempest gale. a melee school is better with that excellency because in theory you should be able to apply the strikes with One Kick Ten Thousand Times. Still looking for a good means of a mount, which with the expanded mythoses could make a brutally fast runner or horseback rider.

also to DracoDei: im VERY interested in your Phileotheysia class, just based on that Shintai. you say one of their character reps is Nightmare Whisper? ive not seen that myself, but ive wandered the realms of MLP before. I really would like to read what you have, even if you don't quite yet know what your basic class ability is at. im no judge for the power of a Shintai, but depending on the GM that could easily be a problem. however it could easily ALSO be that the quest your on is where you are needed most, so... *shrugs* i don't know. a cool concept, that's for sure. but its somewhere along the lines of the Kathodos Shintai to me- powerful as crap as a Shintai should, but potentially less restrictive then others.

to Slawth13: a Psychic Mythos class? im quite interested to see where this goes, though im loving the use of a collective right off the bat. that mythos doesn't feel like a Shintai though- id recommend making a separate path if you intend on it, but something else would probably suffice as a better shintai- you have to have a drawback to go with it. and honestly, i wouldn't eat a drawback for a per day ability like that caliber in this system- thats just me. i hate per day uses. i loe Mythos because it feels far more usable on all cylinders.

to Vauron: i WAS taking a good look at the Kathodos using that set of Mythos because of the consistent damage, maybe going TWF with the party as well. that said, a range increment enhancer was something id want to add to that one. that said, you also brought up the Omnicapable Human Spirit Ignition. im not sure how far that rabbit hole goes... but i blame you for a good bit of lost time the last few days- i had forgotten about amalgam line of feats. so i had to go back to the drawing board on potential concepts- namely a Kathodos or Askopar with Bellator mythoses.... more mythoses, more influences, more mix and match. yum.

random thought- was there ever a mythos class where sonic effects or songs where involved beyond the similar abilities of the Jagganatha or the Dinyomi? I've been in the mood for a Sound manipulation character, like a certain trio of Sirens, and i wonder what the Mythos system would actually do? (EDIT): speak of it, and it arrives. lemme see if i can give it a look.

[DracoDei]

Here, have a LINK to what I have for the Phileotheysia so far. It is a Google Doc, and I have it set up so anyone can put comments on it, so do that or comment here as you think appropriate. I don't think I have any fluff written up there... except for in the mythos themselves, including the names.

If you want more fluff, see THIS thread, which is the class I am re-writing into the Phileotheysia.