Mythos Homebrew Discussion III: Grievous Imbalance Is A Feature

[Zenna]

the class should never turn them into what they hunt.

Maybe for nemesis, but the world needs more dragons and that's where my idea is

EDIT: I want to get the idea across that a dragon slayer, is actually very little different then a dragon. In a lot of myths or fantasy works, those that are taking down dragons either use their enemies weapons against them. I know theres room for classic heros too, and to that end I plan to include them and work with a tag system, a Hero & Dragon tag wherein grabbing more hero mythos helps you to defeat dragons, while grabbing dragon mythos grants you their power. Sort of leave the option open for more knight based characters.

Spoiler: Banner

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imgur.com/fZ1A9Yd.png with only 5 posts i cant link yet.
Went with a silver dragon because they're sworn to destroy evil dragons and can shape shift and went with Kamui rather then Nowi because I think I could pull more inspiration

[Zale]

With that banner, Mythic Dragonslayer wouldn't be my first choice of theme.

Mythic dragon warrior, maybe. A mythic dragon disciple, possibly- but Dragonslayer would be tertiary.

But it that's what you're going for, by all means, I only worry that a focuses slayer class might run into situations where 90% of their class features don't work because they aren't fighting dragons.

[Zenna]

Mythic dragon warrior, maybe. A mythic dragon disciple, possibly- but Dragonslayer would be tertiary.

I'm hesitant to make a mythos prestige class, and warrior could work, except for the classical knight theme which I wanted to include, simply so that this isn't just Mythos Dragon

the mythos not working on non dragons is something I've considered luckily being really good at piercing a dragons skin makes you good at stabbing in general so it's probably fine

[Jakman217]

I'm hesitant to make a mythos prestige class, and warrior could work, except for the classical knight theme which I wanted to include, simply so that this isn't just Mythos Dragon

the mythos not working on non dragons is something I've considered luckily being really good at piercing a dragons skin makes you good at stabbing in general so it's probably fine

To be fair you don't need to make a prestige class for it to be a mythic dragon disciple. If you think a grand narrative concept can come from a dragon disciple, then it can be made into a mythos class. The only real hindrance would be getting enough material to constitute a full class from level 1-20. Just for ease of connection as to what would make it There's the rough guideline for making a mythos class mechanically http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...postcount=1276. Then here's the overarching guideline for the mythos class's fluff from Xefas (it's the last spoiler) http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...rew-Discussion.

And as a note just so I don't sound like I'm trying to scare you, you can and should use inspiration from characters and other people here.

[Zenna]

I'll get my ideas posted soon so I can get more targeted feedback
I've already thought of how I want the basics to go and the name whatever it is isn't as important to me as the mechanics

at this point through I'll keep slayer in the name, I don't want to focus solely on dragon attributes & I want to be a. it varied, dragon warrior is cool but Beowulf and St George are not really that

[Lanth Sor]

So I have started work on Mythic Enhanced Being. I started with Claymore, and will be bringing Witchers, and Warcraft/diablo Demon Hunters to the table. Each one will have a different Source feat providing the start down a specific path. They all start with special rituals and what not leading to becoming the race/template, then you pick your specific path referring to the feats. I'm not intimately familiar with Claymore abilities so its been a little bit of a struggle, but I've done my best. Currently I have a player that is playing the race and they where the idea began. I could use plenty of advice for what the 2 Exceptional, 2 Fantastic, and 1 Legendary for them should be. Once claymore are complete I'll follow up with Witchers, then Demon Hunters.

[Jakman217]

What do you mean by Enhanced Being?

[vasharanpaladin]

What do you mean by Enhanced Being?

From the look of the thing, augmented humanoids. The eponymous Claymore warriors (of the manga, mind), Warhammer 40k's Space Marines, and presumably there'll be others.

[Lanth Sor]

Correct vash, I hadn't even thought about Space Marines, and i talk about 40k all the time.
In regards to the mythic slayer pathfinder has a slayer class. It's a ranger rogue mix getting sneak attack and favored enemy.


Ok so I think I have the Enhanced Being Abberation done Please review I'm Looking for balancing Help.[Peach]

[DracoDei]

Sudden inspiration regarding the mythic wealth accumulator: What about a mechanic that allows the standard "spend 1 XP, gain 5 GP worth of savings on an item" crafting mechanic to where you can dedicate a separate hoard of wealth and gain 1/5th the GP value in XPs? It is completely insane at first glance, but I think it might be something that could be refined to work within the Mythos system... I mean that as an Exalted Mythos? Probably underpowered actually... so it should fit somewhere, right?

[Lanth Sor]

That sounds horrible and hilarious. But as much as I like the idea, I feel the safer bet would be to have a benefit based on amount of gold in your hoard. If your going to do XP i advise 25g=1xp as in crafting, that is the equivalence provided.

[Jakman217]

For the Mythic Wealth Accumulator, how about a non-standard BAB? Their BAB is based off of their wealth. Or, they can bling out their gear with random gems and stuff, effectively loosing no 'wealth' in terms of useless shiny things, but it acts as though they were enchanted for them alone? Being dressed in expensive clothes counts as a charisma buff, having expensive glasses makes you look smarter therefore you are. A bit silly, but a bit in line with MONEYH IS POWAH motif in my mind.

The craziest yet, they store XP in Gold? They gain no XP and instead gain gold. Their total value*Some modifier is equivalent to the XP of their character. So any penny spent is lost XP.

[DracoDei]

I continue the long, slow process of working on the Phileotheysia. A few more concerns:
1.) Most of their early-level basic cl ass abilities aren't as strongly sacrificial as their mythos and excellencies, except in the meta-textual/meta-game sense that they are related to heal-botting, and very few people want to play the heal-bot. Later on of course they get their revivification abilities, which cost them ability burn (although they can just use a clerical scroll of the revivification spell to avoid that if they prefer). Is this going to confuse people too much?
2.) If I'm almost, but not quite satisfied with a given mythos or excellency, should I include it, or keep it separate until I can polish it some more? What about in-line editing questions for my readers? Would (()) work or should I use spoilers?
3.) Do I need to get someone to write me a Titan-story, force myself to do it even though that whole aspect of things never appealed to me, or just leave that out? I've mentioned this issue in a vague sort of way before, but I don't think I've been this clear with how I said it.

[Lanth Sor]

I continue the long, slow process of working on the Phileotheysia. A few more concerns:
1.) Most of their early-level basic cl ass abilities aren't as strongly sacrificial as their mythos and excellencies, except in the meta-textual/meta-game sense that they are related to heal-botting, and very few people want to play the heal-bot. Later on of course they get their revivification abilities, which cost them ability burn (although they can just use a clerical scroll of the revivification spell to avoid that if they prefer). Is this going to confuse people too much?

While this can be fine its important to make any special abilities fun or thematic like counter balance cure at will with taking non lethal or something. And watch for mechanics not interrupting combat too much. While the agios shield is thematic it can be very disruptive if gm/party isn't prepared for it initiating on nearly every physical attack. I would advise making the counting as a exellency or something stating they count as a Cleric equal to class level with the healing domain for purposes magic item activation.

2.) If I'm almost, but not quite satisfied with a given mythos or excellency, should I include it, or keep it separate until I can polish it some more? What about in-line editing questions for my readers? Would (()) work or should I use spoilers?

Without seeing it I couldn't advise on completeness of abilities I prefer to see the full process and unfinished ideas as it helps get a full view of the classes direction, but that seems to rather unpopular thought on giants.

3.) Do I need to get someone to write me a Titan-story, force myself to do it even though that whole aspect of things never appealed to me, or just leave that out? I've mentioned this issue in a vague sort of way before, but I don't think I've been this clear with how I said it.

Draco if you not interested in the titan stuff and looking for someone to write it I'd be happy to assist. Just let me know the "Fantasy" of the class and I'll do my best. Check out the agios and archikos for samples of my work.

[DracoDei]

While this can be fine its important to make any special abilities fun or thematic like counter balance cure at will with taking non lethal or something.

It seems to me like you are contradicting yourself here. Is it okay to have "necessary but boring, and non-sacrificial" stuff or not? I assume it is okay since you later suggest allowing a blanket ability to use clerical items (which I'm not going to do exactly because: CoDzilla).

And watch for mechanics not interrupting combat too much.

The only time the abilities in question are likely to come up in combat come down to "I can use this clerical item to heal you" (and in-combat healing is still usually a bad idea), or "I can take 10 or 20 on some heal checks".

While the agios shield is thematic it can be very disruptive if gm/party isn't prepared for it initiating on nearly every physical attack. I would advise making the counting as a exellency or something stating they count as a Cleric equal to class level with the healing domain for purposes magic item activation.

Actually, something like that is a basic class feature from level one.

Without seeing it I couldn't advise on completeness of abilities I prefer to see the full process and unfinished ideas as it helps get a full view of the classes direction, but that seems to rather unpopular thought on giants.

Have a link then.

Draco if you not interested in the titan stuff and looking for someone to write it I'd be happy to assist. Just let me know the "Fantasy" of the class and I'll do my best. Check out the agios and archikos for samples of my work.

Please do! The document is set up so that anyone can add comments, despite the fact that only I can actually edit the text itself.

EDIT: Or you can comment here of course.

[Zenna]

Hey guys, I figured I'd post what i have right now, lemme know your thoughts.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...yer&p=20337961

[ThreadNecro5]

For the Mythic Wealth Accumulator, how about a non-standard BAB? Their BAB is based off of their wealth. Or, they can bling out their gear with random gems and stuff, effectively loosing no 'wealth' in terms of useless shiny things, but it acts as though they were enchanted for them alone? Being dressed in expensive clothes counts as a charisma buff, having expensive glasses makes you look smarter therefore you are. A bit silly, but a bit in line with MONEYH IS POWAH motif in my mind.

The craziest yet, they store XP in Gold? They gain no XP and instead gain gold. Their total value*Some modifier is equivalent to the XP of their character. So any penny spent is lost XP.

If you are talking about the class I am Woking on what you are suggesting here is similar to ideas I had but could never balance, but the ideas here are amazing, especially the 'no XP but gold' one. So now I'm thinking giving the class all bad saves, only two skill points/LV, and wizard BAB, but they use gold for XP and 'invest' into bonuses for them.

well, I'm of to 'brew.

[Jakman217]

If you are talking about the class I am Woking [snip]

I'm actually not quite sure. I saw DracoDei post on it, and responded with my own idea. If he was saying his idea in regards to yours, then yes. If you want to use my ideas then go ahead, I'd love to help where I can.

Also, as a general reminder to those with mythos classes I still have the wiki up and there is a template you can use to add your own class to if you so wish. Though, I do suggest posting here also so comments can be seen by people here also. I've been bogged down with personal business so adding 7th son of sons stuff has been slow. I'd also like to add Xefas' stuff, but without permission I'd rather not accidentally step on toes.

Edit: Since the original post I've finished Elf, and added Ghost and Melanier in their entirety. Only 3 more from 7th son of sons left then I'm out of material to add with permission.

[DracoDei]

I'm actually not quite sure. I saw DracoDei post on it, and responded with my own idea. If he was saying his idea in regards to yours, then yes. If you want to use my ideas then go ahead, I'd love to help where I can.

I'm not very good at remembering who posts what. I probably had no idea who the author of what I was responding to was when I wrote that.

Happy to have been of inspiration to whoever can use the idea, regardless of who I was TECHNICALLY responding to. That idea of mine is free to use for all.

[Yasahiro]

Greetings.

Some might remember me, some might not. But I am coming here with update on Mythic Grammarist.

Proper term would now be Mythic Programmer. Viewing laws and so on set by Lawgivers and Omphalos like code, editing variables and such. Great Wheel is technically like both Virtual Reality and regular Reality at the same time to them. Class will focus on [GLITCH] tagged Mythos, inspired by Missingno(creature and the class) which will spawn a Mythic Glitch race eventually, but also other tag of Mythos for proper editing, debugging, programming. It will, of course, still use ideas of grammarism. This class is meant to remain deliciously complex and yet understandable.

Possible people for Banner include Kayaba Akihiko(Sword Art), Sans(Undertale), some more people I had written down but forgot due to typing this on phone while list is on PC. Open to suggestions though.


I will also like to announce arrival of a new, original, race. And of course, their Mythos. But the race itself will work with non Mythos games too, of course.

The people of the banner may provide hints. Archer(EMIYA) from Fate Stay Night, Genos from One Punch Man, Orpheus from Persona 3.

Central theme of which parts the Mythos will build off and focus on?
Forge

These are not warforged. This is something else...

[Jakman217]

Ok, so with a sudden, short burst of frantic work I've added All of 7th son of sons stuff to the wiki now. I also have Temotei's Askopar, and Rogthnor's WIP Rhapsados.

All of the work done so far can be found HERE. I'll be working on adding Lanth Sor and Xefas stuff soon (I completely missed the thumbs up from Lanth about 2 or 3 pages back and feel silly now).

I'm also working on my Mythic Leader idea called the Megaligeti. I'll be adding that in soon enough and looking for input. It's got quite a bit of stuff, but will probably need some rebalancing.

[silphael]

I was thinking about working on a Mythic Ascendant, as in chinese styled Immortal without making it elemental based. I don't know when I'll have to advance that project, but it's slowly making it's way in my mind... not sure it will be good, however, when comparing it with my other homebrews ><

[Jakman217]

Ok, so during my break of copy/pasting other peoples mythos classes I've finally gotten my own up on the wiki here.

I also have a discussion thread on it here so that this isn't just a thread jacking and I can keep most of the comments easy to find.

Other than this, any help and comments would be appreciated on the thread, and I'll continue my work with ctrl+C and ctrl+V.

[DracoDei]

I was thinking about working on a Mythic Ascendant, as in chinese styled Immortal without making it elemental based. I don't know when I'll have to advance that project, but it's slowly making it's way in my mind... not sure it will be good, however, when comparing it with my other homebrews ><

What can it hurt to try?

Ok, so during my break of copy/pasting other peoples mythos classes I've finally gotten my own up on the wiki here.

I also have a discussion thread on it here so that this isn't just a thread jacking and I can keep most of the comments easy to find.

Other than this, any help and comments would be appreciated on the thread, and I'll continue my work with ctrl+C and ctrl+V.

Thank you very much for your hard work!

[ThreadNecro5]

I have some details for my Class that are semi-finalised for the first draft, posing below for opinions and to make sure I don't completely mess something up.

Lore:

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Money is a curious thing, for all it is is simple metal. Yet this is a simple metal that by it’s mere existence controls the fates of nations, over which the darkest of deeds and hardest of choices made, and to which all concerns become secondary once its scent hits the air.

This is a simple fact of life and like all other originated with the Titans and the Lawgivers, in this instance, the Gilded Wyrm. The Wyrm was a greedy being, indeed it invented the concept merely so it could own it, and in the war it acted in a mercantile role, it traded and sold between those who were buying. In the end it stood atop a pile of wealth which would form avalanches when visited by smaller beings, and with with stood a Lawgiver negotiator. One with a bargain that could only exist in abstract.

Whatever the trade was over bartering took a turn for the worse when the Lawgiver sweetened the deal with folly, an then with that deal made offered imprisonment for freedom, the Wyrm saw that it had plenty of freedom, yet no imprisonment taking the offer and so was bound.
That is how the all-consuming desire for wealth came to become part of existence and marked it ever after.

Class Feature (originally a mythos, was tweaked as I recall):

Hordemaster

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The pockets, bags, sacks, and other assorted containers carried by the Chrimatia all link to a personal endless realm (referred to as your vault) that may only be accessed only by you. Any valuables the Chrimatia possess (valuables here defined as an item that is traditionally thought of as of significant worth such as jewelry, fine ornaments, bars of gold, Magic Items, or even just money itself) can be placed within the vault as a free action. Any item within the vault may be converted into 50% of its value in GP as a free action.

You may access the items held within the vault as a free action, even should your hands be tied or you have no pockets available you may access this realm. When you die all the contents of the vault are found on your corpse, no matter how little sense it would make.

Additionally you may open a portal in order to transport you inside your vault by spending a minute in concentration.

By default a vault is a dark 15x15x15 room containing only a poor quality chandelier for light. In the center of the room is a 3ft tall pillar of cracked marble, on whose top is an empty sack of rough-spun wool that, when opened when empty, emits a small cloud of dust and a live bat or moth flies out (this disappears between visits). Should you possess any valuables within your vault, they are found in this room held within appropriate devices for display (e.g jewlery could be in a box or just on a table, works of art could be hung on the wall or in sufficient amount could form a separate area to function as a gallery).

Money within the vault fills the sack until it is overflowing, at which time the sack and pillar is replaced by a chest of some nature that, when full, is replaced by a pile of gold coins proportionate to the amount of coins within the vault. As the value of all items within the vault rises, the size and opulence of the vault also does so in proportion, generally appearing as a dwelling of a sort that the Chrimatia would inhabit given the amount of money they have available.

To leave your vault you must spend a full round action, which transports you to the same location form which you entered (or the closest space should it be occupied. When you leave your vault any items inside that are not valuables are destroyed.

The 'gain GP instead of XP and invest if for stat buffs' class feature is still in development. Also what do people think about a Shinai that turns the character into a dragon literally made of your fortune (I am thinking have it replace your HP with a value equal to the amount of gold you have, so your gold is then your HP as well as your EXP).

Banner Characters: (thank you to all who offered suggestions)

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Greed- Diablo Three

Greed- Full Metal Alchemist

Ultra Greed- Binding of Isaac

Scrooge McDuck- Disney

Larfleeze- DC Comics

Smaug- The Hobbit

Takarada - Kill La Kill

Greasusus Goldtooth- Warhammer Fantasy

Some Assorted Exceptional Mythos:
The Toss of a Coin

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Prerequisites: -
You may make a ranged touch attack to throw a handful of money as a standard action. You choose any single dice to roll (a D100 is treated as one dice in this case), the creature takes an amount of damage equal to the result of the dice roll and you lose an equal amount of GP.
If you cannot pay the full amount equal to the dice roll, you instead take the same amount of damage that cannot be healed in any way until you pay an amount of GP equal to the amount you could not pay by +50%.

Mine
Prerequisites: -

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As a standard action you can target a single item that is within 30ft that you can see, and which is light enough for you to carry within one hand. The target item is immediately transported to your hand. Should the item be on the person of a creature they gain a will save to resist loosing the item.

Instead of a single item you may instead take a number of coins equal to that you can hold in one handful. You must still be able to see the coins you wish to take.

Basic manifestations:
Take it all
When using this Mythos you may take any item which you can carry instead of having the limitation of carrying it in a single hand. Additionally instead to transporting it to your hand you may instead place it within your Vault.

Window Shopping
As a swift action you may call to yourself an exhaustive list of all items a single creature or container within 30ft possesses that are a valid size for this Mythos. This list is based on the personal belief of the target creature or the creature who placed the item within the container, so if the creature is under some disillusion as to the nature of an item, or an item is cursed and the creature is unaware you would receive incorrect information when using this Manifestation.

Five Finger Discount
When using this Mythos and successively take an item, all creatures apart form you must take a Spot check with the same DC as a Saving through brought about via a Mythos. On a failure the creature does not notice the item going missing and will not notice you carrying it for a minute afterword.

Gaze of greed
Prerequisites: -

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You may spend a minute polishing a gold piece in order to copy the effect of a Scrying spell (the gold piece is used as the focus for the effect). For every 50GP you spend when using the effect, the target takes a -1 penalty on the will save.

Additionally as a move action, you may place a coin within your eye, embedding it inside. While a coin is so embedded you gain low light vision. Should you already possess low light vision you instead gain 60ft of darkvision, should you possess both your darkvision is extended by an additional 60ft.

Also I am beginning to work on another Mythos class at the same time to make a 'Mythic Nothing'. Just pointing this out in case anyone wonders why I am also posting about a completely different class in the coming days.

[Jakman217]

Do love the idea, this looks like a fun class to play. My only thing does it have to be a dragon? I'm not against the it, but being required to be a dragon feels ... limiting.

[vasharanpaladin]

Do love the idea, this looks like a fun class to play. My only thing does it have to be a dragon? I'm not against the it, but being required to be a dragon feels ... limiting.

Dragons are traditionally associated with avarice in fantasy. Also, y'know, he just said the Shintai would do that... your anthol is not required to take the Shintai in order to advance.

[Bdrone]

ThreadNecro5: with the exception of the Dragon stuff (can't say im EVER a fan of that stuff), i love the idea of this class that's the essence of greed. a core class ability that lets you store and convert things to gold, complete with the ability to duck into the dimension and wallow about in the gold? that's just awesome. Stealing items from other people just by going "MINE!"? chucking a piece of gold so big you kill someone with it but can blowback yourself? Scrying by looking through coins at someone? sweeet. plus, Chrimatia is a neat name.


not to mention that gp as xp mechanic really does sound interesting. I can't wait to see how that class fully pans out.

[ThreadNecro5]

ThreadNecro5: with the exception of the Dragon stuff (can't say im EVER a fan of that stuff), i love the idea of this class that's the essence of greed. a core class ability that lets you store and convert things to gold, complete with the ability to duck into the dimension and wallow about in the gold? that's just awesome. Stealing items from other people just by going "MINE!"? chucking a piece of gold so big you kill someone with it but can blowback yourself? Scrying by looking through coins at someone? sweeet. plus, Chrimatia is a neat name.


not to mention that gp as xp mechanic really does sound interesting. I can't wait to see how that class fully pans out.

Thank you, always nice to hear about someone enjoying your works. As far a the 'DRAGON!' stuff it will be limited to just the Shintai, a Mythos that essentially makes you a half gold dragon, and another Mythos that if you have the 'half gold dragon' Mythos also grants you a breath weapon that deals DEX damage by turning things to gold, and creatures may be animated into your golden statue servants (if you remember the old cartoon Shaolin Showdown, its like the sapphire dragon from that).

The general idea is having a dragon subtheme because dragons are the archetypical powerful money hoarding fantasy creature.


Also an Excellency idea for anyone reading this:
What do you think about an excellency that jut flat out grants say 500-1000 GP per level you have when you take it? Make it able to be taken multiple times, and probably add a limitation of only being able to take it a number of times equal to your level to prevent Mythos point cheesing.

[Jakman217]

The general idea is having a dragon subtheme because dragons are the archetypical powerful money hoarding fantasy creature.

What about king Midas? I think he's a far better representation of greed. Or the demon Mammon, who became wealthy in hell itself? Dragons get an unfairly high representation and while powerful, I think there are more interesting options than just be a dragon. Also, greed from FMA would be sub-par at this class, because he hardly got any gold in setting.