Mythos Homebrew Discussion III: Grievous Imbalance Is A Feature

[vasharanpaladin]

What about king Midas? I think he's a far better representation of greed. Or the demon Mammon, who became wealthy in hell itself? Dragons get an unfairly high representation and while powerful, I think there are more interesting options than just be a dragon. Also, greed from FMA would be sub-par at this class, because he hardly got any gold in setting.

Midas is more associated with short-sighted thinking (wishes that whatever he touched would turn to gold, without stopping to consider what that would entail) and hubris (what resulted in the aforementioned wish to begin with; he thought he'd outsmarted a god) than with greed specifically. The result is certainly appropriate to the concept, I certainly wouldn't look askance at a mythos that gives one the Midas touch, but as far as embodiments of said concept go, Midas himself isn't one.

Mammon could probably stand to be referenced a few times in the fluff, but he's also not appropriate to think of as an embodiment of avarice. The serpent is temptation, the dragon is its more fantastic cousin.

And FMA Greed is not only appropriate, but nearly required. Money isn't the whole end of avarice; Greed wants people, he wants friends or family. He doesn't defend them because they're his friends, he defends them because they're his friends. Which makes him one of two characters listed for that banner that fall to the "white" end of the moral charts.

[Jakman217]

My problem is that dragons are overused and boring. And besides, if you look at eastern dragons wealth has little if anything to do with them.

I think tainting a class based on a supreme greed, material hording, and ultimately shallow wealth doesn't need to turn to a dragon. It seems so rote and standard that I may as well make a mythic unarmed fighter and make become humanoid and go super saiyan as a shintai. It's overdone, and highly limiting to force a race change on a raceless concept. I think a demon, at least as an option, would be better.

If you want me to be more direct, creating a shintai which should be considered a central-most feature that forces an ephemeral concept like greed to become a specific creature is painfully limiting. What if I want to be a demon of greed? Maybe I want to effectively be a skeleton of pure gold? Maybe I want to be a misshapen blob of sentient gold that is so heartless and greedy that a snake moving on it's belly in the dirt cannot represent how low I stoop for wealth.

A dragon is a proud and vicious beast, but a dragon would not stoop for a singular dropped coin. Mammon was literally defined as always bent over looking for material wealth at all times, just as a true embodiment of greed should. It may be vicious, it may be eternally hungry, and have a temper that can be compared to dragons, but true Greed is without pride, dignity, or grace.

[VoodooPaladin]

Try focusing on the parts of dragons that have to do with wealth and greed, and leave out the rest. Have a hoard and guard it jealously, but what does wealth have to do with scales, wings, and breathing fire? Let him smell gold; let him smell fear. If greed is about more than shiny trinkets, then let him collect people, places, and concepts. A dragon is a tyrant. If this Mythos becomes a tyrant, it has to do so in a way that is still centered on Being Richer Than God. Otherwise you really should just go take a shot at Io's Mythos.

[EdroGrimshell]

Try focusing on the parts of dragons that have to do with wealth and greed, and leave out the rest. Have a hoard and guard it jealously, but what does wealth have to do with scales, wings, and breathing fire? Let him smell gold; let him smell fear. If greed is about more than shiny trinkets, then let him collect people, places, and concepts. A dragon is a tyrant. If this Mythos becomes a tyrant, it has to do so in a way that is still centered on Being Richer Than God. Otherwise you really should just go take a shot at Io's Mythos.

This might be better represented by The President of The Company from The Gamer webtoon, adding people into a collective driven by the idea of gaining profit, able to spend money to buy back life to its members, buy lands and make things it doesn't want to happen not happen, etc. It's an even better representation of Greed than a dragon and is by far more interesting because it does what VoodooPaladin suggests, emphasized by me, letting them just collect, to Hoard, everything, not just gold, not just gems or works of art, or other valuable.

[Jakman217]

And I just realized I had another good example of a greed character. 'C: The Money of soul and possibility Control'. It's literally an entire setting where everyone's power is defined by money. Every single character and monster could fit in this class.
Example characters.
Kimmimaro Yoga, the MC, would be an example, but he never really fight directly he leaves it to the next character.
Msyu, his demon companion who is literally powered up the more money she (Kimmimaro) has and is able to burn money to fight stronger.
The final option would be Masakaki, the banker and overseer of the realm they fight in.

Seriously, if you want some inspiration, I suggest paying a look at this. Though it does have an economics bent, but that's rather fitting for the class.

Oh, and idea for a suicide/last resort attack from the show.

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Scorched Earth: You may as a full round action burn your wealth to explode yourself. for every 100 gp you burn you may deal either an additional d6 of fire damage, or increase the radius of the explosion by 5 ft. Reflex half, and the land is now on fire for 1 round/100gp.

Manifestations: Change element, more power, stuff about burning your less material assets, and other such stuff.

[Zenna]

When picking a mythos, do you gain a basic mani immediatly AND advanced next level?

[Jakman217]

When picking a mythos, do you gain a basic mani immediatly AND advanced next level?

Yes, you gain a basic the level you gain the mythos and the advanced kicks in the next level. You don't have to necissarily chose the advanced the level before, but it's suggested.

[7th son of sons]

Checking in between bouts of working, working on schoolwork, and working on my next mythos class, I'd like to add in my own suggestions for some classic Greed characters:

Wario: A Man who literally ignored a captured damsel to acquire more wealth, his entire motivation in Wario World was to get more money, and basically all his motivations in life are because he's a greedy b*stard.

Mr. Krabs: Sold Spongebob's Soul for 62 cents, will abandon his post for a penny, bathes in money, dates money, and has made a wide variety of terrible decisions in the name of, what else: Money.

Count Olaf: The amount of insane, evil, and downright rediculous things this man did in the name of the Baudelaire fortune is astounding.

Gilgamesh (Fate Version): He's incredibly insistant that everything of value is his, to the point of wanting the holy grail not to use it or because he wants the grail, but because he doesn't want anyone else to have it. As an added bonus, by the lore of the series, Gil used to actually own EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD. And that's impressive.

[VoodooPaladin]

Mr. Krabs: Sold Spongebob's Soul for 62 cents, will abandon his post for a penny, bathes in money, dates money, and has made a wide variety of terrible decisions in the name of, what else: Money.

I made an attempt at a "Money Mythos" awhile back. Here's one from my notes. Meenah Peixes, from Homestuck. Regularly steals her friends' clothes and sells them back at a profit. Cheated the author of her own story out of its funding. Spent multiple eternities sitting in her palace, counting her riches. And then grew up to become the unconditional Empress of the Universe, despite being implied to have never having actually ruled over anything in her life.

[ImperatorV]

I made an attempt at a "Money Mythos" awhile back. Here's one from my notes. Meenah Peixes, from Homestuck. Regularly steals her friends' clothes and sells them back at a profit. Cheated the author of her own story out of its funding. Spent multiple eternities sitting in her palace, counting her riches. And then grew up to become the unconditional Empress of the Universe, despite being implied to have never having actually ruled over anything in her life.

You forgot the multiple-story tall gold statue of herself.

[VoodooPaladin]

You forgot the multiple-story tall gold statue of herself.

Thanks for the catch, there. Would you like some Prawn Shop to go with that?

[ThreadNecro5]

I have took on board the offered suggestions, I will make the dragon based stuff more customisable (if it was not clear the Shintai would not turn you into a literal dragon but more replace your body with all your money, which would them form into a dragon-like shape, if anything mechanics would likely be closer to a construct with partial swarm abilities, with a fly speed and breath weapon coming form different mythos). Oddly enough a lot of the ideas that were handed out were similar to ones I had but were jet to write up at the time.

Also, is it listed anywhere the value of a soul in GP?

Finely I have a couple of Fantastic mythos, the second of which I am on the fence between Fantastic or Legendary.

A Wealth of Trust
Prerequisites: - Must have at least three beings who consider you an ally (as defined below)

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You gain a +4 bonus on Diplomacy an Bluff checks when on allies. An ally is defined as a being who personally knows you, thinks of you in a non-negative light, and can generally be counted on to preform minor requests and show trust in you. Additionally whenever using aid another, you and all allies within 60ft increase the bonus by an amount equal to the number of allies within 60ft.

In addition to this whenever an ally is made to attempt to betray you or knowingly act against your interests, they gain a bonus of any saves/rolls to resist equal to half your Chrimatia level. Should no such roll be made, the initiator of the effect instead takes a penalty of all rolls to succeed equal to half your Chrimatia level.

Advanced Manifestations:
Trust Me
A number of times per day equal to your charisma modifier, you may mimic the effects of a Suggestion spell. Uses of this spell are specific to each ally, so if you had a charisma modifier of +3, you would have three uses on each individual ally, not a flat three uses.

Willed goods
When an ally dies, and you were not the one who killed them or knowing assisted in their death, you gain complete knowledge of all possessions they own, from jewels, land, and titles, to their underwear. You may select any one object they owned. Should the possession logically pass to someone else or another wishes to dispute your taking of it, then they must pass a will save. Should they fail you inherit the item and all believe it right that you do so (or at the very least do not complain about whatever oddity.).

Armour of Comradeship
You and all allies within 60ft succeed on attempt to use aid another with no roll needed. Additionally should you or an ally within 30ft become the target of an effect, you or an ally within that range may get in the way of it. Should they do this the original target may use aid another on the interrupter and they become the new target of the effect. Should they survive the interrupter may preform a standard action that must be used to attack the source of the effect they interrupted. Should a creature take a standard action in this way they loose their next rounds standard action.

Weight of Avarice
Prerequisites: -

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Should a being attempt to steal an something you own (be it the literal taking of an item, or a more metaphorical stealing such as through attempting to turn an ally against you, or to live on land you own without permission), they are (upon preforming the act, such as casting a spell to achieve the result, simply pocketing a gold coin, making a diplomacy check on your ally, or making the mental choice to settle on land you own) cursed. This curse, popularly dubbed Avarice, may be resisted with a will save and causes the cursed creature to slowly turn to gold, taking one point of Dexterity Drain for each hour they remain within a quarter of a mile of you, land you own, one of your ally's, or anything that is definitively yours. The curse is removed when the thief ends their attempts to take the possession from you, and it is returned (e.g. A coil is given back to you or a suitable representative, or a spell that turns an ally against you ends). Should the curse be removed the Drain becomes Damage. Outside of the quarter of a mile distance the drain instead becomes every 24 hours instead of each hour.

Should the item have been damaged since it was stolen returning it fails to remove the curse (for non material things damage constitutes permanent effects, including instantaneous magical effects or permanent mental trauma). Should the object be again stolen by, or traded to, another creature the one who now possesses the item also must save against Avarice as if they sole it, as well as the original thief. Thin continues to spread in a similar manner.
Should the creature fail to become cursed with Avarice and the item has not been returned to the vault, the creature must save to resist being cursed with Avarice every 24 hours. A creature reduced to zero Dexterity by Averice turns fully into a golden statue, with select parts of their anatomy, such as horns or teeth, occasionally becoming some type of precious gemstone instead.

Additionally you gain a melee touch attack that, should it hit a creature forces them to save against a similar affliction to Avarice that forces the creature to pass a Will save or take 1d4 Dexterity damage for a minute, with a will save to resist the damage each round. Should they be reduced to zero dexterity, they are turned to a golden statue as if by Avarice.

Creatures turned to gold by Avarice are worth 1000GP per HD they possessed to a minimum of 1000GP. This value does not count class levels.
By paying an amount of gold equal to the value of the golden statue you may animate it, which in mechanical terms is achieved through the statue turning back into the original creature, with class levels removed, and applying the Gilded template to them. If the creature has no HD, they gain one level of Warrior. You control all creatures with the Gilded template that you caused to gain the template, and all such creatures are transported to your Vault.

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Gilded Template:
Size and Type
Type changes to Construct.

Hit Dice
Racial HD are Replaced with an equal number of Construct HD

Speed
As typical for base creature

Armour Class
As typical for base creature

Attack
If they lack a natural attack, a Gilded creature gains a Slam attack as a Primary natural attack that deals 1d6 damage.

Full Attack
As typical for base creature

Special attacks
As typical for base creature

Special qualities
A gilded creature gains the mindless special quality, DR5/Adamantine or, should they already have any DR higher than 5, it instead becomes an equal amount of DR that is now penetrated by Adamantine.

Abilities
- Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma become 10 if they were higher, otherwise no change.

Skills
As typical for base creature

Feats
No change beyond the Mindless Quality.

Basic Manifestations:
Breath of Golden Vapour
You gain a breath weapon identical to your melee touch attack that may be used every 1d4 rounds. You may not use the touch attack when the breath weapon is recharging.

Golden Servants
You may transport a creature with the Gilded template form your Vault to a space within 10ft (creatures larger than medium may have their space extend beyond this point, just one of the spaces they take up must be within this radius) of you. You may only have a total HD of such creatures outside of you vault equal to four times your Chrimatia level.

[vasharanpaladin]

Also, is it listed anywhere the value of a soul in GP?

Book of Vile Darkness lists them at 250gp for one in larval form (naturally found in the Lower Planes), or 200gp for one in a receptacle (usually resulting from a spell such as soul bind or trap the soul).

[Defiantnight]

Book of Vile Darkness lists them at 250gp for one in larval form (naturally found in the Lower Planes), or 200gp for one in a receptacle (usually resulting from a spell such as soul bind or trap the soul).

It may have been a different book, but I seem to recall it also mentioning that increasingly powerful souls were worth more, without giving actual prices to them. I like to think that those are for commoner's souls, not level 30 wizard souls, but that's just me.

Edit: Weight of Avarice looks like a Legendary mythos, but I don't know how they're tiered.

[vasharanpaladin]

It may have been a different book, but I seem to recall it also mentioning that increasingly powerful souls were worth more, without giving actual prices to them. I like to think that those are for commoner's souls, not level 30 wizard souls, but that's just me.

Yeah, it doesn't say exactly whose souls. Lords of Madness also has a formula for determining slave costs (CR^2*100gp; round fractional CRs to 1), also noting that neogi will tend to jack up the price depending on other traits and who they're selling to. "Other traits" being at a premium when you're talking about balls of light, this could probably also be adapted somehow?

[JKTrickster]

Sorry to pop back in here unannounced but was there ever any plans for a Mythos class based on the Moon?

We have one based on the Sun now, but was wondering if anyone had anything related to the Moon. As far as I know, the closest reference was the Mythic Lycanthrope Feat/Mythos.

[VoodooPaladin]

We have one based on the Sun now, but was wondering if anyone had anything related to the Moon. As far as I know, the closest reference was the Mythic Lycanthrope Feat/Mythos.

Primal Fury was the one to come up with the idea. He called it the Somnari, but it wasn't completed. This is what I could find of it.

Spoiler: Somnari Introduction

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The Somnari

"I think you're like me. A nameless, senseless queen, with many shapes, and an invisible kingdom. Not just black like Lord Square, or white like Ms. Viv's smile. A brilliant shade of purple... That's your real crown." ~Mabel; Zebra Girl

I have no name... no True Name at least. I have given myself many titles though, such as the Great Dreamer, the Argent Madonna, the Queen-Mother of Storyfolk, the Ninefold Chimaera, and a host of others you can neither pronounce nor comprehend while awake; but they mean nothing. I am the Moon of the Lawgivers, and it was I who brought the First Night to the world, allowing it respite from my brother's burning glory. I still haven't received any thanks for that, by the way. But then... how could my siblings, or anyone else, think to thank me? I barely even exist.

The mind of a Primordial is such a curious thing, isn't it? It is a combination of a host of lesser minds, who are themselves combinations of those lesser than they. Unlike your kind, they have no ability to simply "forget" that which comes to mind, as that would require an entire legion of entities to do the same. No, everything that is discarded has to go somewhere. As you may have guessed by now, I am the byproduct of the Sun's conception, making me his antithesis, his foil, and his shadow. Where he drags others down the path to his glory bound by unbreakable virtues, I guide them to their own with transient whispers and fevered visions. While he has protected allies with the bulwark of his unquenchable courage, I would feed them to their darkest fears, proving they can protect themselves... should they survive. And where he would strike his foes down with unquestionable purity, I would heap upon them imaginary sins such that they crumble under their weight, leaving them utterly crippled with suicidal shame.

So, it seems you have stumbled into my story, little mortal; tread carefully, for it is one of thankless glory and horrid nightmares. You will fade from the thoughts of others just as dreams fade from the waking mind. Your eyes will see the world not as it is, but as it could be, as it wishes to be, and as it must never be. You are my child now, my Somnari, and you are doomed to madness. But fear not sweetling, for the road to insanity is paved with indescribable wonders.

Spoiler: Planned Somnari Mythos

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What A Day For A Daydream
Prerequisite:-

I do not govern only the dreams that come at night, my child. I rule even those idle fancies that constantly drift in and out of your minds. I do so love how, even in the midst of a terrible conflict, your thoughts can wander and touch upon the most ridiculous of notions. I think your kind underestimates just how valuable a short attention span can be.

In order to use this Mythos, you must take a move action to roll a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2), and fail. You CANNOT fail this roll intentionally. If you succeed in failing, your mind drifts away, and you begin to daydream. While you are daydreaming, you gain a bonus to your Will Save equal to your Charisma modifier, but you can only move at half your base land speed. You may not move beyond this speed, regardless of your other modes of transportation. This state lasts as long as you care to maintain it. You take no other penalties, but you may take no hostile actions while daydreaming. If you do, the state ends immediately.

This lethargic state is incredibly infectious; as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, you may sigh or yawn. All who hear this expression of exhaustion must succeed on a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2), or take 1d6 non-lethal damage per two Somnari levels. As their own fatigue sets in, they drift closer and closer to dreamland; if a creature takes enough non-lethal damage from this ability to equal their current hit point total, they fall asleep. When undead are subjected to this ability, they feel the call of the grave, and begin to fall apart; undead take a like amount of lethal damage from this ability.

Advanced
It's Such A Beautiful Day, Isn't It? (Requires 4 Ranks in Diplomacy): While daydreaming, you may ask someone about the state of the weather, or something equally as meaningless to the current situation. If you succeed on a Diplomacy check opposed by your target's Sense Motive check, they also begin daydreaming. They gain none of the benefits you get from daydreaming, only the reduction in speed, and the inability to act in a hostile manner for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. If they are attacked, this state ends immediately. Once a creature successfully saves against this ability, they cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours. This a language-based mind-affecting ability.

When you use this on an ally that is suffering from a mind-affecting ability, they are allowed another saving throw with an additional bonus equal to your Charisma modifier.

Just Five More Minutes: In response to a hostile action, you may politely ask your attacker to leave you alone for a little while. If they succeed on a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2), their attack continues. If they fail however, they begrudgingly leave you alone for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier, choosing to attack someone else. If there is no one else they wish to attack, they impatiently wait for the duration instead. A creature can only be affected by this ability once every 1d4 rounds. If your attacker fails this save by 10 or more, they are compelled to leave you alone for five minutes.

If you have fallen asleep due to the 'I Fell Asleep Beneath The Flowers' manifestation, the DC for this ability increases by 1 for every tier of Mythos you have access to.

I Fell Asleep Beneath The Flowers: If you fail a saving throw against a mind-affecting ability while daydreaming, you may neutralize it by taking an immediate action to fall asleep. While sleeping, you are immune to mind-affecting abilities, and gain a dodge bonus to your AC equal to your Charisma modifier. This state lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier, and cannot be ended prematurely. If you fall asleep in, or somehow end up in, a harmful area you may take move actions to remove yourself from it. Upon learning this manifestation, you can no longer be caught flatfooted or be coup de graced while sleeping.


The Sandman Cometh
Prerequisite:-

Twilight has always been my favorite time of day... or night, depending on how you look at it. As I drag the cloak of night across the sky, I place a single grain of silver sand upon each eye of every mortal about to drift off to sleep, that they might gain entry into the Region of Dreams. Just between you and me, I like splashing the stubborn ones with a little extra; they make the most delightful sounds when they finally doze off.

You can conjure magical silver sand seemingly from nowhere. You can splash this sand in your opponent's face as a melee touch attack, or throw it as a ranged touch attack out to 60ft; you may extend this range to 120ft by halving the damage. It deals 1d8 non-lethal damage per two Somnari levels. This damage becomes lethal when used against undead creatures, such is the power of the call to the Final Rest. Rather than Strength or Dexterity, you gain a bonus to attack and damage equal to your Charisma modifier.

It must be noted that using the sand in this way is NOT considered a hostile action for the purposes of the 'What A Day For A Daydream' Mythos.

Basic
Bring Me A Dream: By sprinkling this sand over the eyes of a sleeping or unconscious creature, you can give them exceptionally pleasant dreams. In addition to pleasant dreams, dying creatures you use sleep-sand on are automatically stabilized. Each round spent sleeping heals the target for a number of hit points equal to half the damage of your sleep-sand. The target sleeps for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier, waking early if they are fully healed, or if you choose to wake them. If a hostile action is taken against a character sleeping in this way, they awaken immediately, and may defend themselves normally. Using sand in this way is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

Make Him The Cutest That I've Ever Seen: Anyone struck by your sand must succeed on a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2), or be Fascinated by you for (Charisma Modifier) rounds.

Advanced
Don't Have Nobody To Call My Own: If a creature is benefiting from a status effect, such as barbarian's rage or a spell, they must make a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2) when struck by your sand. If they succeed, nothing happens and they are immune to this effect for 24 hours. If they fail, they lose a single beneficial effect of your choice to the bottomless void of ennui and despair.

Please Turn On Your Magic Beam: By collecting the sand in your hand and softly blowing upon it, you create a stream of sand that refracts light so beautifully it's no wonder others mistake it for moon-beam. You may deliver your sleep-sand in a line attack that requires a Reflex Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2) to avoid. This line extends out 15ft per tier of Mythos you have access to. You can only use this attack once every 1d4 rounds. You may also create a cone attack with a great sweeping gesture out to the same distance, though you may only use this method once every 2d4 rounds.


I Fell Asleep Beneath The Flowers
Prerequisite:-

It almost breaks my heart to hear that so many mortals think time spent sleeping is time wasted. Almost. It doesn't matter how they may feel about it, they know that without sleep, they would be reduced to shambling wretches within days. I sometimes wonder what they find so difficult about a few hours of rest. Seems like the simplest thing in the world to me.

As a full round action, you can fall asleep. Often times, you will immediately fall prone, though you may remain standing by leaning on a wall, tree, cane, or other similar object. Regardless of your position, your tossing and turning always seems to keep you just out of harms way, allowing you to retain your Dexterity bonus. While sleeping, you gain a +2 bonus to your Will save for each tier of Mythos you have access to. If you do fail a Will save against a mind-affecting ability, it takes a full round for you to wake up before it can take effect. You can take no actions while sleeping, unless you possess another Mythos or manifestation that says otherwise. You may sleep as long as you like, though it takes another full-round action to awaken.

This lethargic state is incredibly infectious; as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, you may sigh or yawn. All who hear this expression of exhaustion must succeed on a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2), or take 1d6 psychic damage per two Somnari levels.

Upon learning this Mythos, you can no longer be caught flatfooted or coup de graced while sleeping, nor are you considered helpless.

Basic
A Sleep Like Death: You gain Hibernate as a bonus feat. In addition, you can sleep for any length of time without food, water, or even breathing. You may be quite hungry or thirsty upon waking, but suffer no ill effects. By purchasing this manifestation a second time, you heal 1 point of ability drain if you sleep for 8 uninterrupted hours. If you sleep for 24 full hours, you heal 2 points of ability drain.

Rain-Or-Sleet Ignorance: So long as you sleep, you gain a resistance of 5 against fire, cold, electricity, acid, and sonic damage. You may purchase this manifestation up to three times, each purchase beyond the first adding 5 to your resistances.

Advanced
Just Five More Minutes: If you fail a will save against a charm or compulsion effect while asleep, you may delay it for a while, opting to sleep a little longer instead. Each round you wish to stay asleep, you must succeed on an opposed Charisma check. Both you and your opponent receive the following bonuses (HD + Charisma Modifier). If you manage to beat their check five times, the effect is completely neutralized. This check is made as a free action at the beginning of your turn and your opponent's turn.

I Dream Of You Amid The Flowers: While sleeping, you dream of your friends, safe and happy. While sleeping, choose an ally. They gain one of the following bonuses: a deflection bonus to their AC, or a bonus to their Fortitude, Reflex, or Will saving throws; this bonus is equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may take a move action to provide this bonus to a different ally, or change the type of bonus an ally is receiving. This effects characters regardless of distance, even across planes.

[Defiantnight]

I find it hilarious that you can yawn and make your enemies sleepy, or make them wait a few minutes to attack while you catch a few more Z's.

[Lanth Sor]

So I'm working on an idea for a Mythic Mage. It uses essentia to power its Stuff. As far as spells I was needing to define where issues would arise for making things at will. The first point I have is you gain Highest Mental Modifier + 2 per level essentia. And may only invest 1 + 1 ever three levels past one. SO 4th(2)/7th(3)/10th(4)/13th(5)/16th(6)/19th(7).

By investing essentia equal to the spell level you gain the ability to cast the spell. Now I was planning on being able to cast spells at-will as soon as you gain access to them. But i know there are some spells that would be just broken, IE pathfinder witches get cure light wounds at level 1. Immediate thoughts would be to have it be at will but limiting the effects on a single target or effects lasting hours being changed to 24 hour duration and only one instance being active per time prepared.

An alternative way to mitigate the problem would be to take a Shadow Magic Approach. You invest enough to meet the spell level and gain it as an arcane spell 1/day for every 1 you invest over the minimum you gain an extra casting. If you invest 2 over the spell level it is cast as a spell like ability. If you invest 5 over the level it is cast as a supernatural ability. So a 2nd level spell would be arcane 2-3 essentia would be cast arcane spell, 4-6 essentia would be cast a spell-like abilities and at 7 essentia invested they would be supernatural abilities. If a 0 level spell is chosen it is usable at will and becomes spell-like at 4th level and supernatural at 13th level.

[Tacitus]

My feeling for Mythic Mage has always been there either should not be one or they should not grant spells but rather have each mythos give a related family of effects that scale with level. Similar to learning a sphere of influence, take a mythos to gain fire effects. Burn with flames, fire swords, fireballs, fire elementals, the fire of inspiration/leadership, etc. Healing, and suddenly start learning the entire healing subschool. Bindings. A massive pile of CC effects.

That or gain components of spells and every "spell" they cast is a lego mishmash of these components. I cast an Adjective Noun that Verbs Nouns. Blazing Sword that Wields Itself. Chilling Bolts that Weakens Enemies. Massive Summon that Taunts Foes. Chained Bolt that Heals Allies. Healing Song that Cleanses Allies. Build your own spells dammit! XP

[Lanth Sor]

While I do understand the merit of build your own spells it has been my experience that system can be inherently Broken(Same issue with Technology based on real science). Prime example being the ridiculous Chaos Mage(had a player at level 4 make party member glow with the intesnity of the sun literally and then make a black hole and for his final magic trick he mad a ring of wish out of a rock that he could not use and lasted 1 round. To revive the party member killed by the black hole.) While the shenanigans lead to awesome story that is so unreasonable. There is a mitigation in the forms of paths of chaos where you hit 10 crit fails and you cease to be a character period, with no way to undo it including true resurrection and wish/miracle.

While doing individual mythos providing access to basic abilities may work I am very leery of anything free form as being used as one thing I've found like cancer is the phrase "At DM Discretion" Which is next to required for free form systems.

[Jakman217]

I suggest you take a look at the Sphere's of power books from PF (3pp). Its a lot more freeform than the standard spell system, and removes both the first few levels weakness while removing the high level godmode engage section.

If you want a copy of it pm me and I'll see about sending it to you. It may not be exactly what your looking for but it may help you a bit.

[ThreadNecro5]

I just had a brainwave with applying a GP cost to a soul. what if the cost was the expected wealth by level of the creature? Counting racial HD into the final number.

[JKTrickster]

Primal Fury was the one to come up with the idea. He called it the Somnari, but it wasn't completed. This is what I could find of it.

Spoiler: Somnari Introduction

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The Somnari

"I think you're like me. A nameless, senseless queen, with many shapes, and an invisible kingdom. Not just black like Lord Square, or white like Ms. Viv's smile. A brilliant shade of purple... That's your real crown." ~Mabel; Zebra Girl

I have no name... no True Name at least. I have given myself many titles though, such as the Great Dreamer, the Argent Madonna, the Queen-Mother of Storyfolk, the Ninefold Chimaera, and a host of others you can neither pronounce nor comprehend while awake; but they mean nothing. I am the Moon of the Lawgivers, and it was I who brought the First Night to the world, allowing it respite from my brother's burning glory. I still haven't received any thanks for that, by the way. But then... how could my siblings, or anyone else, think to thank me? I barely even exist.

The mind of a Primordial is such a curious thing, isn't it? It is a combination of a host of lesser minds, who are themselves combinations of those lesser than they. Unlike your kind, they have no ability to simply "forget" that which comes to mind, as that would require an entire legion of entities to do the same. No, everything that is discarded has to go somewhere. As you may have guessed by now, I am the byproduct of the Sun's conception, making me his antithesis, his foil, and his shadow. Where he drags others down the path to his glory bound by unbreakable virtues, I guide them to their own with transient whispers and fevered visions. While he has protected allies with the bulwark of his unquenchable courage, I would feed them to their darkest fears, proving they can protect themselves... should they survive. And where he would strike his foes down with unquestionable purity, I would heap upon them imaginary sins such that they crumble under their weight, leaving them utterly crippled with suicidal shame.

So, it seems you have stumbled into my story, little mortal; tread carefully, for it is one of thankless glory and horrid nightmares. You will fade from the thoughts of others just as dreams fade from the waking mind. Your eyes will see the world not as it is, but as it could be, as it wishes to be, and as it must never be. You are my child now, my Somnari, and you are doomed to madness. But fear not sweetling, for the road to insanity is paved with indescribable wonders.

Spoiler: Planned Somnari Mythos

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What A Day For A Daydream
Prerequisite:-

I do not govern only the dreams that come at night, my child. I rule even those idle fancies that constantly drift in and out of your minds. I do so love how, even in the midst of a terrible conflict, your thoughts can wander and touch upon the most ridiculous of notions. I think your kind underestimates just how valuable a short attention span can be.

In order to use this Mythos, you must take a move action to roll a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2), and fail. You CANNOT fail this roll intentionally. If you succeed in failing, your mind drifts away, and you begin to daydream. While you are daydreaming, you gain a bonus to your Will Save equal to your Charisma modifier, but you can only move at half your base land speed. You may not move beyond this speed, regardless of your other modes of transportation. This state lasts as long as you care to maintain it. You take no other penalties, but you may take no hostile actions while daydreaming. If you do, the state ends immediately.

This lethargic state is incredibly infectious; as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, you may sigh or yawn. All who hear this expression of exhaustion must succeed on a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2), or take 1d6 non-lethal damage per two Somnari levels. As their own fatigue sets in, they drift closer and closer to dreamland; if a creature takes enough non-lethal damage from this ability to equal their current hit point total, they fall asleep. When undead are subjected to this ability, they feel the call of the grave, and begin to fall apart; undead take a like amount of lethal damage from this ability.

Advanced
It's Such A Beautiful Day, Isn't It? (Requires 4 Ranks in Diplomacy): While daydreaming, you may ask someone about the state of the weather, or something equally as meaningless to the current situation. If you succeed on a Diplomacy check opposed by your target's Sense Motive check, they also begin daydreaming. They gain none of the benefits you get from daydreaming, only the reduction in speed, and the inability to act in a hostile manner for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. If they are attacked, this state ends immediately. Once a creature successfully saves against this ability, they cannot be affected by it again for 24 hours. This a language-based mind-affecting ability.

When you use this on an ally that is suffering from a mind-affecting ability, they are allowed another saving throw with an additional bonus equal to your Charisma modifier.

Just Five More Minutes: In response to a hostile action, you may politely ask your attacker to leave you alone for a little while. If they succeed on a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2), their attack continues. If they fail however, they begrudgingly leave you alone for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier, choosing to attack someone else. If there is no one else they wish to attack, they impatiently wait for the duration instead. A creature can only be affected by this ability once every 1d4 rounds. If your attacker fails this save by 10 or more, they are compelled to leave you alone for five minutes.

If you have fallen asleep due to the 'I Fell Asleep Beneath The Flowers' manifestation, the DC for this ability increases by 1 for every tier of Mythos you have access to.

I Fell Asleep Beneath The Flowers: If you fail a saving throw against a mind-affecting ability while daydreaming, you may neutralize it by taking an immediate action to fall asleep. While sleeping, you are immune to mind-affecting abilities, and gain a dodge bonus to your AC equal to your Charisma modifier. This state lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier, and cannot be ended prematurely. If you fall asleep in, or somehow end up in, a harmful area you may take move actions to remove yourself from it. Upon learning this manifestation, you can no longer be caught flatfooted or be coup de graced while sleeping.


The Sandman Cometh
Prerequisite:-

Twilight has always been my favorite time of day... or night, depending on how you look at it. As I drag the cloak of night across the sky, I place a single grain of silver sand upon each eye of every mortal about to drift off to sleep, that they might gain entry into the Region of Dreams. Just between you and me, I like splashing the stubborn ones with a little extra; they make the most delightful sounds when they finally doze off.

You can conjure magical silver sand seemingly from nowhere. You can splash this sand in your opponent's face as a melee touch attack, or throw it as a ranged touch attack out to 60ft; you may extend this range to 120ft by halving the damage. It deals 1d8 non-lethal damage per two Somnari levels. This damage becomes lethal when used against undead creatures, such is the power of the call to the Final Rest. Rather than Strength or Dexterity, you gain a bonus to attack and damage equal to your Charisma modifier.

It must be noted that using the sand in this way is NOT considered a hostile action for the purposes of the 'What A Day For A Daydream' Mythos.

Basic
Bring Me A Dream: By sprinkling this sand over the eyes of a sleeping or unconscious creature, you can give them exceptionally pleasant dreams. In addition to pleasant dreams, dying creatures you use sleep-sand on are automatically stabilized. Each round spent sleeping heals the target for a number of hit points equal to half the damage of your sleep-sand. The target sleeps for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier, waking early if they are fully healed, or if you choose to wake them. If a hostile action is taken against a character sleeping in this way, they awaken immediately, and may defend themselves normally. Using sand in this way is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

Make Him The Cutest That I've Ever Seen: Anyone struck by your sand must succeed on a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2), or be Fascinated by you for (Charisma Modifier) rounds.

Advanced
Don't Have Nobody To Call My Own: If a creature is benefiting from a status effect, such as barbarian's rage or a spell, they must make a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2) when struck by your sand. If they succeed, nothing happens and they are immune to this effect for 24 hours. If they fail, they lose a single beneficial effect of your choice to the bottomless void of ennui and despair.

Please Turn On Your Magic Beam: By collecting the sand in your hand and softly blowing upon it, you create a stream of sand that refracts light so beautifully it's no wonder others mistake it for moon-beam. You may deliver your sleep-sand in a line attack that requires a Reflex Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2) to avoid. This line extends out 15ft per tier of Mythos you have access to. You can only use this attack once every 1d4 rounds. You may also create a cone attack with a great sweeping gesture out to the same distance, though you may only use this method once every 2d4 rounds.


I Fell Asleep Beneath The Flowers
Prerequisite:-

It almost breaks my heart to hear that so many mortals think time spent sleeping is time wasted. Almost. It doesn't matter how they may feel about it, they know that without sleep, they would be reduced to shambling wretches within days. I sometimes wonder what they find so difficult about a few hours of rest. Seems like the simplest thing in the world to me.

As a full round action, you can fall asleep. Often times, you will immediately fall prone, though you may remain standing by leaning on a wall, tree, cane, or other similar object. Regardless of your position, your tossing and turning always seems to keep you just out of harms way, allowing you to retain your Dexterity bonus. While sleeping, you gain a +2 bonus to your Will save for each tier of Mythos you have access to. If you do fail a Will save against a mind-affecting ability, it takes a full round for you to wake up before it can take effect. You can take no actions while sleeping, unless you possess another Mythos or manifestation that says otherwise. You may sleep as long as you like, though it takes another full-round action to awaken.

This lethargic state is incredibly infectious; as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, you may sigh or yawn. All who hear this expression of exhaustion must succeed on a Will Save (DC 10 + Charisma Modifier + Class Level/2), or take 1d6 psychic damage per two Somnari levels.

Upon learning this Mythos, you can no longer be caught flatfooted or coup de graced while sleeping, nor are you considered helpless.

Basic
A Sleep Like Death: You gain Hibernate as a bonus feat. In addition, you can sleep for any length of time without food, water, or even breathing. You may be quite hungry or thirsty upon waking, but suffer no ill effects. By purchasing this manifestation a second time, you heal 1 point of ability drain if you sleep for 8 uninterrupted hours. If you sleep for 24 full hours, you heal 2 points of ability drain.

Rain-Or-Sleet Ignorance: So long as you sleep, you gain a resistance of 5 against fire, cold, electricity, acid, and sonic damage. You may purchase this manifestation up to three times, each purchase beyond the first adding 5 to your resistances.

Advanced
Just Five More Minutes: If you fail a will save against a charm or compulsion effect while asleep, you may delay it for a while, opting to sleep a little longer instead. Each round you wish to stay asleep, you must succeed on an opposed Charisma check. Both you and your opponent receive the following bonuses (HD + Charisma Modifier). If you manage to beat their check five times, the effect is completely neutralized. This check is made as a free action at the beginning of your turn and your opponent's turn.

I Dream Of You Amid The Flowers: While sleeping, you dream of your friends, safe and happy. While sleeping, choose an ally. They gain one of the following bonuses: a deflection bonus to their AC, or a bonus to their Fortitude, Reflex, or Will saving throws; this bonus is equal to your Wisdom modifier. You may take a move action to provide this bonus to a different ally, or change the type of bonus an ally is receiving. This effects characters regardless of distance, even across planes.

That looks so promising as a start! The emphasis on dreams and sleep looks really nice!

But after reading the way the Moon won its challenges, I wonder how the class can even be structured? A Mythos class based on the moon? What mechanics would it use? What type of class would it look like?

I'm obviously very interested but its hard to even think about where to start...

[Lanth Sor]

That would be terrifying. Also I strongly agree that Fate Stay Gilgamesh embodies greed, he also embodies royalty, king of kings.

What would be defined as the bases for magic, I have; Air, Water, Earth, Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity, Sound, force, charm, Compulsion, Foresight, far-sight, Identification, Summoning, Teleportation, Creation, Destruction, Shaping, Reconstruction, Enhancing, Animation, Reanimation, Healing, Repairing, necrotic infusion(inflict spells), Restoration(non +/- energy based), Figment, Phantasm, Emotion, Protection, Purging(dispel), Calling, Shadow, glamer, Pattern, Polymorph.

Right now for Magos I'm thinking Van Hohenheim(FMA), Xerath(LOL), Aegwynn(Warcraft), Doctor Strange(Marvel), Caster(Fate Stay Night Unlimited Blade Works), Nethys(Pathfinder God of Magic), still working on the roster.

[VoodooPaladin]

That looks so promising as a start! The emphasis on dreams and sleep looks really nice!

But after reading the way the Moon won its challenges, I wonder how the class can even be structured? A Mythos class based on the moon? What mechanics would it use? What type of class would it look like?

Well, to be fair, the Moon as described is the Moon. A Somnari is merely an Anthol of the Moon's Mythos. As an adult, fully-matured Titan, the Moon will have attained Sempiternal Mythos, and is thus at minimum almost level 30. A Titan is a microcosm, and therefore need not expend wealth to innovate Mythos; one can assume she has every Mythos that a Somnari can qualify for. The difference is a matter of raw scope.

I've actually thought about this before. Still have notes for a Lunar Mythos of a different sort, right here. Not very good, but eh, whatever. The big thing about Somnari is that they're sold as dreamers, but all we got was sleep. I actually think I remember coming up with a neat quote to help refocus it. Something like...

The Moon does not cast illusions. She is illusion. But you can't look away: what right have you, when lies tell truth?

[khadgar567]

That would be terrifying. Also I strongly agree that Fate Stay Gilgamesh embodies greed, he also embodies royalty, king of kings.

What would be defined as the bases for magic, I have; Air, Water, Earth, Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity, Sound, force, charm, Compulsion, Foresight, far-sight, Identification, Summoning, Teleportation, Creation, Destruction, Shaping, Reconstruction, Enhancing, Animation, Reanimation, Healing, Repairing, necrotic infusion(inflict spells), Restoration(non +/- energy based), Figment, Phantasm, Emotion, Protection, Purging(dispel), Calling, Shadow, glamer, Pattern, Polymorph.

Right now I'm thinking Van Hohenheim(FMA), Xerath(LOL), Aegwynn(Warcraft), Doctor Strange(Marvel), Caster(Fate Stay Night Unlimited Blade Works), Nethys(Pathfinder God of Magic), still working on the roster.

agreed with gilgamesh aka ultimate greed with unlimited ego works( guys ego need his own universe he is beaten in several paths( even in fanon) and bastard never changes or get the idea) and aegwynn is quite of ( dont play mmo but personaly guarantee effing a dark god shows her power very well), plus caster from unlimited blade works just wants to find a new home and love ( check sakura portion of next war)

[Lanth Sor]

and aegwynn is quite of ( dont play mmo but personaly guarantee effing a dark god shows her power very well), plus caster from unlimited blade works just wants to find a new home and love ( check sakura portion of next war)

You are just confusing me I'm referring to mythic mages and who should be in the banner. But Aegwynn used magic to extend her life hundreds of years past her mortal existence, on top of soloing the most powerful force in the burning legion. Caster may have had simple goals in the end but she was an indisputable master mage. I'm looking for mages that look at magic and refuse convention and create their own because convention cant comprehend how to manage their power.

[khadgar567]

You are just confusing me I'm referring to mythic mages and who should be in the banner.

yes

But Aegwynn used magic to extend her life hundreds of years past her mortal existence, on top of soloing the most powerful force in the burning legion.[/QUOTE] she do that to keep her son medivh safe from bunch of power thirsty politics obsessed mages of tirisfall

Caster may have had simple goals in the end but she was an indisputable master mage. I'm looking for mages that look at magic and refuse convention and create their own because convention cant comprehend how to manage their power.

medea in that version is came from nearly age of gods so she cast with true names rather than current chant based style of UBW when

[Lanth Sor]

I feel like where having different conversations. Are you saying they are bad options or reinforcing them as good ones?