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2015-11-11, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- Location
- In eternity.
- Gender
How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Greetings, all!
I was pondering Wizard gishes lately and discovered a way to get full Wizard casting and 16+ BAB in 20 levels! This requires early entry tricks, flaws, and writing a background where you're probably more of a hero than you already are mechanically at level 1. Still, it's at least theoretically possible!
I assume for this build that Heighten Spell + Metamagic School Focus works more than once per spell, thereby allowing me to cast level 4 spells at character level 1.
Any Good LA0 Aasimar Transmuter1 (0.5 BAB)/Ruathar3 (2.75 BAB)/Raumathari Battlemage3 (5 BAB)/Dragonslayer1 (6 BAB)/Spellsword1 (7 BAB)/Abjurant Champion 5 (12 BAB)/Sacred Exorcist6 (16.5 BAB)
1: Combat Casting, Heighten Spell, Metamagic School Focus, [Scribe Scroll OR Fighter Bonus Feat]
3: EWP: You Bastard! Sword
6: Dodge, [Iron Will from O Hole]
(Take what you want from here feat-wise.)
Build Requirements
-13 STR: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
-13 DEX: Dodge
-Fractional BAB stacking
-A willing GM
-Some LA0 source of martial weapon proficiency (I went with LA0 Aasimar, AKA 'Savage Aasimar')
-Good Alignment: Sacred Exorcist
Build Negatives
-Your martial abilities bloom late. You're basically a Wizard who minors in martial prowess. Even a single level of Crusader or Warblade would help you tremendously at level 1 or 2 just to get you some noteworthy martial abilities.
-Despite taking a feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency, you're probably better off as an archer and caster until polymorph et al.
-You're more MAD than most Wizards. You, for some odd reason, absolutely require 13 STR for EWP: BS.
Build Positives
+You're a frickin' Wizard with a base caster level = to your character level! You could light all your feats on fire and still be awesome!
+You have more skill points and a broader skill list than most Wizards. You also have more HP (larger hit dice on most levels) and higher base saves
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2015-11-11, 11:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- Cambridge, MA
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
You know Wizard 10/Rainbow Servant 10 has full 20 levels of Wizard casting and 20 bab right?
amazing avatar of my favorite character, Gheera, by Pesimismrocks
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2015-11-12, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
World of Madius wiki - My personal campaign setting, including my homebrew Optional Gestalt/LA rules.
The new Quick Vestige List
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2015-11-12, 01:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2015-11-12, 02:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Extended signature here. Contains: 2 avatars, 3 quotes, a doggo and his friends.
Kitchen Crashers: an adventure building Iron Chef - First edition running 20/04/18-18/05/18.
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2015-11-12, 02:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Location
- Cambridge, MA
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Yup. Full BABies and CL 20 on a wizard is pretty easy.
amazing avatar of my favorite character, Gheera, by Pesimismrocks
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2015-11-12, 03:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
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2015-11-12, 04:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Extended signature here. Contains: 2 avatars, 3 quotes, a doggo and his friends.
Kitchen Crashers: an adventure building Iron Chef - First edition running 20/04/18-18/05/18.
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2015-11-12, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- Location
- In eternity.
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Yes, divine power works. My version still grants 16 BAB (at L20) even without magic. So there.
The race (LA0 Aasimar) is mostly locked in for this build due to needing proficiency with martial weapons for Raumathari Battlemage.
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2015-11-12, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
If you're interested, the local gish handbook provides a bunch of other standard gish builds, most of which don't require spells to work.
Extended signature here. Contains: 2 avatars, 3 quotes, a doggo and his friends.
Kitchen Crashers: an adventure building Iron Chef - First edition running 20/04/18-18/05/18.
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2015-11-13, 04:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Gender
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2015-11-13, 04:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- material & internet plane
- Gender
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2015-11-13, 05:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
He means the Savage Progression version here, which is a legit outsider.
Tiefling or Neraph would also work.Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2015-11-13, 06:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- ⚣
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
A single level of ardent with the Magic Mantle, Supernatural Transformation (Psionics), and lots of StP erudite/Psychic Chirurgery abuse can net you full psionic manifesting, full arcane casting, and full divine casting all three. You just need to boost the hell out of your Wisdom score to get lots of power points to manifest with.
Last edited by Rubik; 2015-11-13 at 06:40 AM.
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2015-11-13, 07:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
What is this "Psionics" ability you're taking Supernatural Transformation for? Ardents don't have any such class ability, as far as I'm aware. Their class abilities are Power Points/Day, Powers Known, Mantles, and Assume Psionic Mantle, none of which are valid choices for Supernatural Transformation.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2015-11-13, 07:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- ⚣
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Last edited by Rubik; 2015-11-13 at 07:37 AM.
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2015-11-13, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
I just checked Complete Psionic and the Expanded Psionics Handbook. The sample Ardent has no such ability listed, nor do any of the sample prestige class characters. Some of the monsters have "Psi-like abilities", but that is obviously plural, AKA multiple abilities, and Supernatural Transformation requires you to choose just one. Some of the statblocks in EPH have "Powers known", but again, we already knew Ardents have that as a class ability, and it's not marked as (Sp) or (Ps). The only statblocks I can find with "Psionics" as an ability are ones like the Mind Flayer, for whom it consists of several different spell-like abilities, not just one.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2015-11-13, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Dascarletm, Spinner of Rudiplorked Tales, and Purveyor of PunsThanks to Artman77 for the avatar!
Extended Signature
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2015-11-13, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2015-11-13, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Dammit, beat me to it. Though I would like to note, Moderate depravity only gives you one bonus feat, so it does still require a feat to meet Eldritch Corruption's prerequisite (or just dive into Severe Corruption for yet another bonus feat, covering the whole cost of early entry).
That being said, 4 feats at first level is doable.
1: Base feat at 1st everyone gets.
2: Human bonus feat.
3: Bonus from selling your soul (you an extra if you lease it instead, I believe, but that's more of a pain).
4: Bonus from being moderately corrupted or depraved.Last edited by Necroticplague; 2015-11-13 at 03:58 PM.
Avatar by TinyMushroom.
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2015-11-13, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
I always wondered is there any rules saying you may start with corruption, or start the game having sold your soul. Of course any DM can say that you did as part of your backstory, but in the vein of a full RAW theoretical discussion...
Dascarletm, Spinner of Rudiplorked Tales, and Purveyor of PunsThanks to Artman77 for the avatar!
Extended Signature
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2015-11-13, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Extended signature here. Contains: 2 avatars, 3 quotes, a doggo and his friends.
Kitchen Crashers: an adventure building Iron Chef - First edition running 20/04/18-18/05/18.
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2015-11-13, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Moderate Depravity doesn't turn you into a crazy murderhobo either, and there's nothing that forces tainted characters to be evil. If anything, the vast majority of Depravity symptoms are more a danger to yourself than anyone else. And anyway, you only need it for a couple levels. Once you're in Rainbow Servant it self-qualified from its casting advancement in soon enough time, so you can have your taint cleansed at level 5.
Avatar by TinyMushroom.
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2015-11-13, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Taint registers as evil to a Detect Evil spell, but it doesn't necessarily represent an alignment change, although it might. Heroes of Horror notes (on page 67) that characters with moderate depravity generally won't be Good, but they may be Neutral, which is good enough for Rainbow Servant.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2015-11-14, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Location
- Denver, CO
- Gender
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2015-11-14, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Gender
Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
I'm confused why 16 BAB is such a common goal, as if it were the main thing you needed on the melee side. You really want that attack at a -15 to hit that badly? I'd be more concerned about the -4 to all my other attacks. And yeah, high optimization can do almost anything including 20 BAB.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2015-11-14, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Location
- Denver, CO
- Gender
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2015-11-14, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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- ⚣
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Re: How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!
Which can be done via medium BAB and Snap Kick. Also Two Weapon Fighting. Also Cleave. Also a bite attack. Also Combat Reflexes.
There are much better ways to get additional attacks than 16+ BAB, and so long as you have a good enough attack bonus to make them hit, you're just about as well off.
The one and only thing is Power Attack bonuses, but so long as you kill what you're hitting, anything more is overkill.
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2015-11-14, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Location
- Denver, CO
- Gender
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2015-11-14, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- ⚣
- Gender