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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Magikeeper's Avatar

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    Question Help me make this ability simpler!

    I debated making a new thread for this or not.. but you don't need to know anything about the class in question to help me out!

    The following ability is incredibly wordy, I'd like to make it simpler. I'd like to make it take less OOC time as well - if there is something faster than tossing a bunch of saving throws to determine if a creature is effected that'd be nice.

    Spoiler: the ability
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    You may choose to have any creature dealt piercing damage by your spikes have one or more such spikes be stuck in them (by partially unfolding, expanding at the tip, etc) unless the creature makes a successful dexterity saving throw.

    If the spike is still attached to you (directly, not via a tether), the creature is considered grappled unless it is two or more sizes larger than you, in which case you are considered to be grappled by it. Unlike a normal grapple, the only way to end the grapple is for you to willingly release the creature/disconnect the embedded spike or for your opponent to spend an action making a strength saving throw to remove all embedded spikes (this is even if you are the one considered grappled – the opponent cannot simply choose to release you like it could if it were grappling you normally).

    If you are not still (directly) connected to the spike, then no grapple occurs but the embedded spike(s) can only be removed by the creature or someone else helping it making a successful strength saving throw as an action. A successful save removes all embedded spikes.

    A creature with one or more embedded spikes takes 2 points of piercing damage at the start of each of their turns. If you have made the twisting spike alteration you may also embed your spikes into damaged objects. Objects do not get a saving throw but do not take additional damage over time like creatures afflicted with embedded spikes do.

    Note: There is no difference between having one embedded spike and twenty - a single successful save removes all of them and the damage does not stack. This is mostly to limit the number of saving throws that actually matter – if a creature has a spike in it, don’t waste game time seeing if even more spikes get stuck in it..


    A way to not need that note at the end would be nice as well.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2015-11-12 at 04:15 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Mr.Moron's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help me make this ability simpler!

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    I debated making a new thread for this or not.. but you don't need to know anything about the class in question to help me out!

    The following ability is incredibly wordy, I'd like to make it simpler. I'd like to make it take less OOC time as well - if there is something faster than tossing a bunch of saving throws to determine if a creature is effected that'd be nice.

    Spoiler: the ability
    Show
    You may choose to have any creature dealt piercing damage by your spikes have one or more such spikes be stuck in them (by partially unfolding, expanding at the tip, etc) unless the creature makes a successful dexterity saving throw.

    If the spike is still attached to you (directly, not via a tether), the creature is considered grappled unless it is two or more sizes larger than you, in which case you are considered to be grappled by it. Unlike a normal grapple, the only way to end the grapple is for you to willingly release the creature/disconnect the embedded spike or for your opponent to spend an action making a strength saving throw to remove all embedded spikes (this is even if you are the one considered grappled – the opponent cannot simply choose to release you like it could if it were grappling you normally).

    If you are not still (directly) connected to the spike, then no grapple occurs but the embedded spike(s) can only be removed by the creature or someone else helping it making a successful strength saving throw as an action. A successful save removes all embedded spikes.

    A creature with one or more embedded spikes takes 2 points of piercing damage at the start of each of their turns. If you have made the twisting spike alteration you may also embed your spikes into damaged objects. Objects do not get a saving throw but do not take additional damage over time like creatures afflicted with embedded spikes do.

    Note: There is no difference between having one embedded spike and twenty - a single successful save removes all of them and the damage does not stack. This is mostly to limit the number of saving throws that actually matter – if a creature has a spike in it, don’t waste game time seeing if even more spikes get stuck in it..


    A way to not need that note at the end would be nice as well.

    Main Spike Ability
    You have [number of spikes] you can use as either a melee weapon or ranged weapon with [range] that deals [damage]. When you damage a creature with an attack from your spikes it embeds in them. A creature that has one or more spikes embedded in them and is not grappled makes a [saving throw] at the start of each of their turns. On a failure they take 2 damage, on a success they remove all spikes from their body.

    When you damage a creature with one of your spikes as a melee attack you may choose for you and the creature to gain the grappled condition. If the grappled condition ends for one of you, it ends for both you. You may end the grappled condition by releasing the spikes with an [action type]. The affected creature can make a strength saving throw as an action, on a success they end the grappled condition all spikes from their body.

    You are proficient with your spikes. You can't grapple a creature more than two size categories larger than you by using your spikes.

    Twisting Spike Alteration (this should be it's own entry)

    You may use your [Spike Ability] on objects. Spikes embedded in them do not deal additional damage. (No need to clarify about the saving throw, since the condition that would result from the saving throw is impossible anyway and objects can't be grappled).
    Last edited by Mr.Moron; 2015-11-12 at 07:05 PM.
    New Class (5e Homebrew):Mystic Warrior. Martial/Arcane hybrid with extra power against other spell casters. Feedback welcomed.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Magikeeper's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help me make this ability simpler!

    Hrm, that wording <mentally adjusted to take into account other class stuff> would result in more saving throws over time (just on the enemy's turn) - I imagine with the original most creatures won't waste an action removing the spikes mid-combat and just take 2 damage each round (which is preferred to spending game time making a bunch of saves, it's only 2 damage a round).

    Although your wording did give me some ideas, thanks! That would simplify things... and I suppose there aren't really many situations where you would want to throw yourself into a reverse grapple... I could move the object embedding thing to the ability that cares about that, that'd be better.. Rules for the spikes damaging stuff is elsewhere, that doesn't need to be included. Two different ways to damage creatures with a spike that is attached to you though.

    Also, wouldn't that wording result in any melee attack becoming a death match unless one the combatants had the ability to teleport? A grappled creature has no way to move nor end the effect (the ability to escape is under "grappling", doesn't appear to be an inherent part of the condition itself - although I suppose the Shove action could free you?)

    Spoiler: Ability Mark II
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    Your spikes embed themselves in any creatures they damage. At the beginning of each of their turns, an opponent with one or more spikes embedded in them takes 2 point of damage. Once per turn, an afflicted opponent may use an action to remove all spikes embedded in them.

    If you damage a creature with a spike that is still attached to your body (such as via the Goring Spike or Deadly Quills alteration), you may choose to have the spike detach itself from you when it embeds itself in a foe. If you don't detach the spike, both you and the damaged opponent gain the grappled condition until the opponent removes the embedded spike or you choose to have the spike detach itself from you (like releasing a creature from a grapple). If an afflicted opponent is more than two size categories larger than you it does not gain the grappled condition, but any movement it makes carries you with it until you detach the spike or the opponent removes it. As with throwing spikes, new spikes grow to replace any detached spikes.


    This version is pretty wordy too, but I think it's much clearer as well. I also removed the strength saving throw - if your opponent seriously spent an entire action ending the effect just letting it do that strikes me as being okay. Dumped the dex saving throw as well, seemed unnecessary for such a minor effect.. no extra rolls, yay!

    Again, thanks for your help!
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2015-11-12 at 09:59 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Mr.Moron's Avatar

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    Default Re: Help me make this ability simpler!

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Hrm, that wording <mentally adjusted to take into account other class stuff> would result in more saving throws over time (just on the enemy's turn) - I imagine with the original most creatures won't waste an action removing the spikes mid-combat and just take 2 damage each round (which is preferred to spending game time making a bunch of saves, it's only 2 damage a round).

    Although your wording did give me some ideas, thanks! That would simplify things... and I suppose there aren't really many situations where you would want to throw yourself into a reverse grapple... I could move the object embedding thing to the ability that cares about that, that'd be better.. Rules for the spikes damaging stuff is elsewhere, that doesn't need to be included. Two different ways to damage creatures with a spike that is attached to you though.

    Also, wouldn't that wording result in any melee attack becoming a death match unless one the combatants had the ability to teleport? A grappled creature has no way to move nor end the effect (the ability to escape is under "grappling", doesn't appear to be an inherent part of the condition itself - although I suppose the Shove action could free you?)

    Spoiler: Ability Mark II
    Show
    Your spikes embed themselves in any creatures they damage. At the beginning of each of their turns, an opponent with one or more spikes embedded in them takes 2 point of damage. Once per turn, an afflicted opponent may use an action to remove all spikes embedded in them.

    If you damage a creature with a spike that is still attached to your body (such as via the Goring Spike or Deadly Quills alteration), you may choose to have the spike detach itself from you when it embeds itself in a foe. If you don't detach the spike, both you and the damaged opponent gain the grappled condition until the opponent removes the embedded spike or you choose to have the spike detach itself from you (like releasing a creature from a grapple). If an afflicted opponent is more than two size categories larger than you it does not gain the grappled condition, but any movement it makes carries you with it until you detach the spike or the opponent removes it. As with throwing spikes, new spikes grow to replace any detached spikes.


    This version is pretty wordy too, but I think it's much clearer as well. I also removed the strength saving throw - if your opponent seriously spent an entire action ending the effect just letting it do that strikes me as being okay. Dumped the dex saving throw as well, seemed unnecessary for such a minor effect.. no extra rolls, yay!

    Again, thanks for your help!
    In my wording they can make a strength saving throw and that ends the grappled condition. Meaning they'd be able to use their action to end grappled (ending it for you as well), and use any movements or other things constricted by grapple normally that turn.
    New Class (5e Homebrew):Mystic Warrior. Martial/Arcane hybrid with extra power against other spell casters. Feedback welcomed.

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