Girl Genius XIX: Worth a Third of Your Grade

[HandofShadows]

He did recognize that Agatha was benevolent pretty quickly and has been helping her since then. He can tell that the Wulfenbachs aren't completely evil and cooperates with them when appropriate. I think saying that "he can't see the rare occasion of a benign or benevolent Spark when it comes along" is overstating it. He might not realize it at first glance, but he seems to be able to figure it out. I can't think of any benign or benevolent Spark that Othar hasn't recognized.

I don't think there is any question that Othar acts like a hero under the GG universe's definition of hero. Agatha called him a hero when she first met him. Why not take her word for it?

The reason Othar changed his mind about Agatha was because of her last name. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...1#.VldvnutdEdU

[eschmenk]

The reason Othar changed his mind about Agatha was because of her last name. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...1#.VldvnutdEdU

That was part of it, but it probably wouldn't have been enough because most of the Heterodynes were evil. Theo would have told Othar more about Agatha, though. ("He told me everything!") The stories Theo told apparently were enough to convince Othar that Agatha was more like her father and uncle than her previous ancestors. Also, what Othar said here was based on personal observation.

Either way demonstrates my point, though.

One more thing. We don't know if Othar realized that Theo was a spark, but Othar seemed to get along with him well enough.

[HandofShadows]

That was part of it, but it probably wouldn't have been enough because most of the Heterodynes were evil. Theo would have told Othar more about Agatha, though. ("He told me everything!") The stories Theo told apparently were enough to convince Othar that Agatha was more like her father and uncle than her previous ancestors. Also, what Othar said here was based on personal observation.

Either way demonstrates my point, though.

One more thing. We don't know if Othar realized that Theo was a spark, but Othar seemed to get along with him well enough.

The only way you proved your point was by moving the goal posts.

He did recognize that Agatha was benevolent pretty quickly and has been helping her since then.

If Theo has to spend time telling Othar about Agatha then it is NOT anywhere close to recognizing "Agatha was benevolent pretty quickly". Someone had to take time to do it. And while the old Heterodynes where evil, Agatha's father and uncle where THE hero's of their generation. Now if Othar had not said he was going to kill Agatha during the escape, I would agree with you. But he didn't.

[eschmenk]

If Theo has to spend time telling Othar about Agatha then it is NOT anywhere close to recognizing "Agatha was benevolent pretty quickly". Someone had to take time to do it.

Ah, I see that you and I have different ideas about what "pretty quickly" means.

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This isn't particularly directed at HandofShadows, but I'm thinking that maybe some people aren't thinking to look at things from Othar's POV. What Othar would have known was that Agatha refused to help him at all when they first met. Later, she seemed concerned for Othar when the wasps were loose, but she got angry when the clank rescued Othar and was actually yelling at it to stop! I can't blame Othar for not knowing what to make of Agatha from that. I know that before Othar learned that Agatha was a spark, Othar kept trying to play it up as if Agatha was a natural-born sidekick who was inevitably trying to rescue him, but I think that was just Othar acting out his Othar persona.

BTW, given that Othar could hold his own in a fight against Klaus, I have to wonder how hard Othar was actually trying if he allowed an eighteen year old young lady with a cat push him out of an airship.

[Ellen]

Hey, isn't that a ten commandments style tablet up on that one shelf? And it starts at XI with "Thou sh--" XIV looks like it starts with "No, really."

On the other side, it looks like they have the unfinished pyramid being built towards the all-seeing eye from the back of the dollar bill. I'd always understood that to represent the United States as an ongoing work that will last the ages with the ideal it was building towards/being watched over by the all-seeing eye of God. But, looking at this, I'm wondering if Tolkien was ever traumatized by a dollar bill. Looks a bit Sauron-ish.

[Landis963]

Hey, isn't that a ten commandments style tablet up on that one shelf? And it starts at XI with "Thou sh--" XIV looks like it starts with "No, really."

On the other side, it looks like they have the unfinished pyramid being built towards the all-seeing eye from the back of the dollar bill. I'd always understood that to represent the United States as an ongoing work that will last the ages with the ideal it was building towards/being watched over by the all-seeing eye of God. But, looking at this, I'm wondering if Tolkien was ever traumatized by a dollar bill. Looks a bit Sauron-ish.

The flaming eye was a Peter Jackson invention, and only appears in the context of Sauron's palantir. Of course, now the question becomes whether Jackson was traumatized by a dollar bill. (Seems more likely to be traumatized by the lack of a dollar bill, but that's just me.)

[memnarch]

Hey, isn't that a ten commandments style tablet up on that one shelf? And it starts at XI with "Thou sh--" XIV looks like it starts with "No, really."

On the other side, it looks like they have the unfinished pyramid being built towards the all-seeing eye from the back of the dollar bill. I'd always understood that to represent the United States as an ongoing work that will last the ages with the ideal it was building towards/being watched over by the all-seeing eye of God. But, looking at this, I'm wondering if Tolkien was ever traumatized by a dollar bill. Looks a bit Sauron-ish.

Yeah, and there's a space invader on the same shelf and Audrey II just below the pyramid. I don't think Tolkien would have been traumatized though; it doesn't really scream "lidless and flame".

[Emperordaniel]

There's also a sword labeled "Not Cursed!" in the lower right corner.

[Dexam]

There's also a sword labeled "Not Cursed!" in the lower right corner.

And one labelled "No longer cursed" below that.

Also spotted: Majora's Mask, a Hugo Award, the Maltese Falcon statue, a Mimmoth, the Winslow, and what I can only assume is an oversized Magic 9 Ball (instead of a Magic 8 Ball).

[Somensjev]

Majora's Mask

there's also the Master Sword, complete with pedestal of time

there's an "invader zim" symbol on the back wall

[factotum]

Wonder what the "globe being held up by a miniature Atlas" in the lower right, with the Heterodyne trilobite on the front, is? Have we seen that before?

[eschmenk]

On the other side, it looks like they have the unfinished pyramid being built towards the all-seeing eye from the back of the dollar bill. I'd always understood that to represent the United States as an ongoing work that will last the ages with the ideal it was building towards/being watched over by the all-seeing eye of God. But, looking at this, I'm wondering if Tolkien was ever traumatized by a dollar bill. Looks a bit Sauron-ish.

That's the Eye of Provenance. There is also a Hugo award above it, a Glove from the Beatles' Yellow Submarine above and to the right of it and a Cat in the Hat below and to the right of it. I spotted Winslow next to Zeetha.

Wonder what the "globe being held up by a miniature Atlas" in the lower right, with the Heterodyne trilobite on the front, is? Have we seen that before?

That's identical to Gil's "not a lamp" Heterodyne invisibility device. Gil's goldfish from the first couple of books is nearby.

[HandofShadows]

The Cat in the hat looks a lot like the cat from "Hello Kitty."

[geoduck]

The Cat in the hat looks a lot like the cat from "Hello Kitty."

Yeah, that's not the Cat in the Hat. The hat would be striped if it/he was. Over on the other side above the mermaid is (probably) a pylon from the TV series The Land of the Lost.

[eee]

Every time Phil Foglio does one of the 'large number of objects / people' scenes, there's about ten million inside jokes inside.

[Southern Cross]

That sounds to me to be a mite excessive...

[eee]

That sounds to me to be a mite excessive...

Some of them count twice.

The Winslow is almost a million jokes in itself, given how often it pops up.

If Growf were in there - and he may be - we'd be over 10 million just on him.

[Astrella]

So I stopped reading Girl Genius consistently back when the Castle Arc dragged out a lot. Is it still good? Is there a bit more flow to the story again now?

[memnarch]

So I stopped reading Girl Genius consistently back when the Castle Arc dragged out a lot. Is it still good? Is there a bit more flow to the story again now?

Basic outline is the castle is trapped in a bubble and the goal is to try and get it untrapped. It's picked up flow a good amount I'd say now that Agatha's traveled off to Paris and we get to see Gil now and then (who's not in Paris), but I wasn't super annoyed by the large castle arc, so perhaps take it with a grain of salt.

[Douglas]

If you haven't read since before the Castle Arc's completion, you have some quite dramatic events waiting for you to read. I think the story's flowing fine now, but I didn't complain much about the Castle Arc either, so that might not be saying very much.

[eschmenk]

There hasn't been any more days that lasted 2.5 years, but I don't think the pace is much different overall. Volumes 11 and 12 were probably more interesting than the ones in the castle because the story was getting closer to the climax of Act 1. (Volume 11 was still largely in the castle, though.)

I thought the slowest book was Volume 13. Its problem was that the climax for the first act was at the very beginning, so the whole book basically amounted to the denouement for the first act and laying some groundwork for the second act. So far the books in Act 2 so far have been somewhat interesting because there were some changes of scenery, but Phil's pacing and the complexity of the plot are going an issue for some people again. It's also a bit frustrating that quite a few of the questions from Act 1 haven't been answered yet.

If I had to summarize the material after the stuff in the castle, I would say that it's not exactly like being in the castle, but it's not all that much different, either.

[Douglas]

If I had to summarize the material after the stuff in the castle, I would say that it's not exactly like being in the castle, but it's not all that much different, either.

On the other hand, a fair bit has accumulated since then, so it should make for a nice archive binge regardless.

[eschmenk]

Right. Agatha stepped out of the castle four years ago; it's also about four books ago if you are keeping track of it that way. I don't know when Astrella stopped reading so she might have more to read than that to catch up, though.

Another idea would be to start with Act 2. The Foglios intended for new readers to be able to begin there. I'm the type of person who likes to know everything there is to know, so I wouldn't be happy doing that, but it might work better for someone else.

[memnarch]

On the other hand, a fair bit has accumulated since then, so it should make for a nice archive binge regardless.

The whole castle arc goes decently quick on a reread for me, so it might be similar to ripping a bandaid off if it's unpleasant. The only moment in the whole thing there I can think of that was distinctly unpleasant was the bit at the end of the whole cure Tarvek issue.

[Ellen]

Worst wake up call ever.

Seriously, even an intrepid gentleman-adventurer might be wanting to go back to bed at this point and hope the whole thing will turn out to be a very bad dream.

[wingnutx]

Time for some Othar fan service.

[Aquillion]

Something I noticed: On the page before last, Othar's immediate reaction on being told about the time bubble (and the fact that he lost 2.5 years) is to ask if everyone inside the bubble is all right.

He is a hero, at least in some ways, even if he's crazy when it comes to the topic of sparks.

[eschmenk]

He is a hero, at least in some ways, even if he's crazy when it comes to the topic of sparks.

I think his being "crazy when it comes to the topic of sparks" is mostly an act. You can tell that he stopped fighting Gil as soon as he realized that Gil had something important to tell him and, despite his digs at Klaus, Othar expected Klaus to do the right thing and oppose Lucrezia.

I think the Foglios are heavily influenced by the original Frankenstein movie where the villagers were automatically frightened by what they couldn't understand. Most people would think of sparks as automatically being bad (often they were), so a hero would kill the sparks. Othar's pretend mission to kill all sparks would seem heroic to them, so that's why Othar plays it up. However, there is something more important than that now, so Othar is no longer pretending much.

[factotum]

I see that a bit differently. I don't think Othar's mission to kill all Sparks is "pretending" at all. However, he's still aware that not all Sparks are created equal and that some are more worthy targets than others, so he will accept an alliance of convenience with one if it will get him closer to his objective. That doesn't mean he won't turn around and try to kill Gil at some point in the future, it's just it won't happen until he's sure he can't get any more use out of the alliance.

[BRC]

I see that a bit differently. I don't think Othar's mission to kill all Sparks is "pretending" at all. However, he's still aware that not all Sparks are created equal and that some are more worthy targets than others, so he will accept an alliance of convenience with one if it will get him closer to his objective. That doesn't mean he won't turn around and try to kill Gil at some point in the future, it's just it won't happen until he's sure he can't get any more use out of the alliance.

Othar is a Madman, but, like most Sparks, he is a PRACTICAL Madman.

His primary Goal is to be a Hero. He views Sparks as Evil, and the killing of Sparks as Heroic. He is willing to spare Sparks, or Ally with them in the cause of some more immediate Heroism.

Killing all Sparks is really more of a general goal, his specific goal at any one time is to be a Hero.

So yes, it is an Act, but really, his "Act" is just a more exaggerated version of the Truth. When he rants about bringing down the Empire, he means every word of it, in a general sense anyway.

It's like me saying "I should go to the Gym". Yes, I should go to the gym. But, at any given point, I have many reasons to NOT be going to the gym.