OOTS #1012 - The Discussion Thread

[schmunzel]

It's the vampire in gas form, and it'll probably look better in the printed book.

What I really wonder though, is at what point in the timeline this is happening?
As it is the Exarch in Vampire Mistform, it is after the Belkster was thrown out of the window.
But is it directly afterwards or did some time pass ?
If the former is true (my guess) we might get V trying to inform Roy / look what happened after the Vampire was disposed of.
Perhaps V (the familiar) detects Belkar down in the snow and Belkar still gets to save the day ?

I cannot imagine an other outcome as the ex-exarch being defeated, as he was just surprised by the presence of the animal companions.
I do not see him slaying them.

Plus I restate what I said last thread - I cannot see Roy chasing Durkula through dwarfen lands.

sch

[Killer Angel]

I'm puzzled.
Only six out of seven have voted, there should be still one vote.
Let's say Hel know the missing vote will be a no. I wonder what kind of backup plan could change the vote of gods / demigods. AFAIK They are unaware of what's happening in the moot, they just vote and see / hear themselves.

[Zorgoth]

A) Grab orb.
B) Resume gaseous form.
C) There is no Step C.

It's enough of a delay to plot-justify a confrontation before he is able to pop out.

[8BitNinja]

I do have a question about the strip. Why is Roy wasting time swinging his sword?

He is a smart guy. He knows that his sword probably gives him a 5 foot reach. He can estimate that the radius is 10 feet long. Drukon is not 5 feet tall. Why waste time trying to hit Roy with the sword? Go grab the spear and chuck it!

At the same time I would see any D&D player doing what Roy is doing. But... with Roy's intelligence it would seem best to try other weapons. Like the spear thrown earlier.

He could chuck his sword

If he misses, there are plenty of other objects to chuck

[Breccia]

I'm puzzled.
Only six out of seven have voted, there should be still one vote.
Let's say Hel know the missing vote will be a no. I wonder what kind of backup plan could change the vote of gods / demigods. AFAIK They are unaware of what's happening in the moot, they just vote and see / hear themselves.

No backsies.

[Zorgoth]

It's enough of a delay to plot-justify a confrontation before he is able to pop out.

(I'd still expect the vampire to escape. A new vampire isn't going to show up just to get toasted by V.)

[8BitNinja]

(I'd still expect the vampire to escape. A new vampire isn't going to show up just to get toasted by V.)

He isn't entirely new, he was around ten or twenty strips ago, but we haven't been able to focus on him

[Porthos]

It wasn't just first page-itis. I have to admit I was confused about what was going on as well.

In my defense, I read it while I was still a little sleepy, but that is only a minor excuse.

See, the thing is, I didn't count the number of votes as they happened. Frankly, I'm not sure how many readers will. So when there was (what looked to be) the Dramatic Vote, Roy's and Hel's reaction to it, followed by "Durkon"'s ominous 'one vote left' comment, with an immediate cutaway to the Mechane.....

Well, I can absolutely see how there could be confusion due to how things were structured and paced.

(For the record, I totes recognized Gontor )

So perhaps everyone who got it right away could cut the rest of us a little slack, eh?

[Quibblicious]

I think it's terrible because there is no strategy and the game is completely random. After all of the property is bought up you are basically executing a probability machine.

House rules are poor attempts to remedy that. It's better remedied by simply never playing Monopoly. Ever.

Monopoly was invented as a game to show how terrible capitalism is.

So to Hel with Monopoly.

I have now closed the circle

[schmunzel]

Spoiler

Show

She gets all the souls under Plan B as well: as soon as the last gate is destroyed, the gods destroy the world, exactly as they would under Plan A. There really is no difference between the two scenarios as far as Hel is concerned. The outcomes where she doesn't win all involve either the continued existence of this world or the unmaking of everything by the Snarl.

I absolutely do not see where Hel wins when the souls are devoured by the snarl????
She wins as soon as the gods tear down the world as the souls of the dwarfs who do not die honoraly in this scenario (a case I would argue) are hers.
In the other scenario she might get a better stand, but not as queen of the Pantheon - in case the gods can control the snarl before they get annihilated.


sch

[schmunzel]

...

After a little reflection, I actually see a kind of neat detail in all this: the strip opens with Loki's "bad parent" comment, because Hel is bad at being a villain. And then, later on in the strip, we (apparently) see another example of her incompetence as a villain: her Big Plan for destroying the world in the face of the rest of the pantheon was, "Exactly enough demigods promised me they'd vote my way"? I'm sure Xykon would have some witty remark about how feeble that is. Likewise, I think her Plan B will be something equally weak, because she really has no experience as a Grand Villain on the scale of Xykon. (Now the Dark One if he ever directly appears may very well be more of a Xanatos Gambit grandmaster. We've seen some indications of that already.)

Ohhh what a lovely twist - I absolutely havnt thought in that direction :)

[Quibblicious]

Seven new priests walk into the room;

...

Are there any other questions about what is going on in this strip? I'm thinking I must have done a really bad job on this one if everyone is so confused.

I was expecting a joke with this opening line... (I read it along the lines of "A Rabbi an a Priest walk into a bar..." )

I understood the strip right off. It took a few minutes to connect the new vampire with the deceased Stone Creed priest, but only because I hadn't re-read the last couple dozen strips in a while.

Nicely twisted and turned, btw.

Spoiler

Show

Oh, and if Durkula and Gonstrodamus teleport away, Durkula may be without his staff, forcing him to resume his nocturnal ways *or* to burn spell slots maintining the resistance to daylight.

[Breccia]

Read up to the end of page 3 and no one had posted this yet, so I'll throw it out there:

I feel that this comic provides 100% proof that Belkar is still alive. Considering how long the fight took, Belkar had plenty of time to finish his fall. His animal companion is still just chilling there, doing things like "not eating the birdy" and relaxing on a flying ship, which leads me to believe that he's still an animal companion and not just a basic animal. Ditto for his other animal companions. They are all acting like he is still alive rather than dead.

This could be me just being heavily biased into the "Belkar is dead" camp, but, I don't think animal companions work that way. The character has to issue commands the animal must observe; a telepathic bond of any kind is neither overtly stated nor strongly implied. I know of no game rule that says animal companions get a telepathic message when their master dies, especially one that wakes them from slumber. The topic has been discussed on this very website!

[Lheticus]

Admission time--I thought the vampire on the airship was somehow DURKON FROM THE FUTURE.

Also, I'm sure this has been answered already, which is why no one else is asking it, but...would destroying the current universe actually stop the Snarl at all? If the Snarl is a high enough order of entity to kill an entire pantheon of D&D gods, surely it would survive even an ultimate apocalyptic event?

[Giggling Ghast]

I knew immediately the vampire was the Creed of the Stone priest. Durkula mmust have used his staff to rapidly transform him.

[Breccia]

I absolutely do not see where Hel wins when the souls are devoured by the snarl????

She doesn't. But the gods have about ten, fifteen minutes to react, and they can easily blow up the planet in that time -- or so Loki's already said. Source. That act would give Hel all the souls she needs.

[Porthos]

Admission time--I thought the vampire on the airship was somehow DURKON FROM THE FUTURE.

Also, I'm sure this has been answered already, which is why no one else is asking it, but...would destroying the current universe actually stop the Snarl at all? If the Snarl is a high enough order of entity to kill an entire pantheon of D&D gods, surely it would survive even an ultimate apocalyptic event?

The plan regarding World 3.0 is that PRESUMABLY they'll do a better job of sealing it this time. I.e. without any Rifts for the Snarl to escape.

[wyrmhole]

I understood that all of this happened, but it didn't and doesn't make any sense for why this happened. The timing is off and not yet explained.

The Mechane shot with Durkon's voice-over establishes that the Mechane scenes are happening in real time, after the sixth vote. Yet no reason is presented for why the seventh vote hasn't happened yet.

Either Hel's plan B is to influence the seventh vote, in which case we need an explanation for why he's standing around waiting. Or Hel's plan lets her win even if she loses the vote, in which case it would have been better dramatically for the seventh vote to be cast, Hel "loses", and then after Roy's false triumph we cut away to the Plan B that makes it all moot.

Needs a script doctor to link up the events in a more coherent narrative. It might make sense in the next strip, but this one doesn't do it standing alone.

No, it's fine. The seventh vote was delayed by unrelated talking, and we are simultaneously seeing the first hint of the backup plan simultaneous with everyone at the Moot about to receive the seventh vote. There doesn't need to be an explanation for why, once we've changed scenes to the Mechane, that we haven't switched back to hear that seventh vote. It would not be "better" if this comic clearly established whether or not that seventh vote was going to decide in favor of Hel or against., It would not be "better" if it clearly indicated whether Hel's backup plan was an alternate way to get the vote or was a alternate way to achieve her goals if she lost the vote. It's all perfectly coherent and full of tension and mystery. It's a cliff-hanger which makes the reader want to find out what the explanation is, which is how (ideally) every comic page should end.

[Bulldog Psion]

It wasn't just first page-itis. I have to admit I was confused about what was going on as well.

In my defense, I read it while I was still a little sleepy, but that is only a minor excuse.

See, the thing is, I didn't count the number of votes as they happened. Frankly, I'm not sure how many readers will. So when there was (what looked to be) the Dramatic Vote, Roy's and Hel's reaction to it, followed by "Durkon"'s ominous 'one vote left' comment, with an immediate cutaway to the Mechane.....

Well, I can absolutely see how there could be confusion due to how things were structured and paced.

(For the record, I totes recognized Gontor )

So perhaps everyone who got it right away could cut the rest of us a little slack, eh?

Same here; I didn't count. I was trying to get the comic read and make a post in the time it took for a file to upload to my current client's site. I just looked at it, mentally short-cut to "three for, three against, Hel's supporter changed their vote, that's that" and went on from there.

I'm also in the "cut us a little slack, sheesh" camp.

Especially the guy about a page ago who out and out called us mental defectives.

(And, yes, I did recognize Gontor. I wonder if the lady dwarf has also been turned and is off on another mission?)

[schmunzel]

I made a wild guess, ages ago, that Durkula could potentially use vamped Earth clerics to collapse the building and crush everyone. It could still happen. And Roy has provided inspiration about dropping buildings on people before...

But now my real question: what would be the value to Hel of having the thrall destroying V's spellbook? I mean, that's it right there on the desk, right? Seems like a pretty easy target to me.

blast it I havnt thought of that one!
But in good conscience I cannot imagine that that was the (primary) goal.

sch

[sumneros]

i have a feeling that there may be some strip monopoly going on

[schmunzel]

lol, ya. Maybe he's giving them a second teleport orb in case they lose this one?

That indeed would be nefarious!

[wyrmhole]

Same here; I didn't count. I was trying to get the comic read and make a post in the time it took for a file to upload to my current client's site. I just looked at it, mentally short-cut to "three for, three against, Hel's supporter changed their vote, that's that" and went on from there.

I'm also in the "cut us a little slack, sheesh" camp.

Especially the guy about a page ago who out and out called us mental defectives.

(And, yes, I did recognize Gontor. I wonder if the lady dwarf has also been turned and is off on another mission?)

My only problem was identifying Gontor, but then I payed closer attention to his clothes and what kinda looks like a rock on his chest made it click, combined with figuring that this wasn't a completely random new vampire dwarven cleric out of the blue, who else could it be?

It's okay to take a little time working out the details of a comic (or book, or movie, etc), and it's okay if it's designed that way.

[Breccia]

i have a feeling that there may be some strip monopoly going on

"And I thought it was hard playing Jenga with you!"

Heh heh. Entendre!

[Raimen]

Registered to point out an (apparently) unnoticed art error.

In Panel 1, the Priest of Bragi's sash hangs over his right shoulder to his left waist. When casting Bragi's vote in panel 6, it goes from his left shoulder to his right waist.

[wyrmhole]

Registered to point out an (apparently) unnoticed art error.

In Panel 1, the Priest of Bragi's sash hangs over his right shoulder to his left waist. When casting Bragi's vote in panel 6, it goes from his left shoulder to his right waist.

It's like Haley's magical loose strand of hair, swapping sides depending on view angle. ;)

[wulffhunter]

Now I see.
There is only one who can save the world.
Only one "god."
The Dark One

Hey wait, what did Durkula mean by Roy giving him the idea? When did Roy do this? What idea?

[Red Planet]

I think we're all missing the real question: Is it Elan or Haley that's the top hat?

[Porthos]

It's okay to take a little time working out the details of a comic (or book, or movie, etc), and it's okay if it's designed that way.

Who says we don't?

Hope you're not implying something here, actually.

Remember, I didn't criticize anything here. And when this is read in preferred format (either as a book or serially on the web), it's going to be fairly apparent what is going on.

All I was doing was showing that, yes, it would be fairly easy to misconsture what is going on in this solitary strip due to the way it was structured (go back and read my breakdown to see what I mean). When it is taken in total with the following strips, it won't matter.

But in this one case? Yes, it was indeed a little unclear. There wouldn't be so much visceral and immedaiate reaction if it wasn't a little confusing for some.

Doesn't mean it was bad storytelling. Doesn't mean it was good, either. But I do think the confusion wasn't intended, given Rich's comment earlier in the thread.

[Nightcanon]

Oh, Roy. Your kingdom for a crossbow with fancy bolts

Yeah, disappointing that Roy doesn't seem to have a better plan for the moment than climbing on the anti-life shell and confirming that his sword isn't long enough to hit Durkula from any direction...