Level 20 character vs Satima/One Punch Man

[Taelas]

I don't know of any RAW support but there's no way I'd allow a Reflex saving throw for an unconscious target.

Unconscious characters are treated as having a Dex of 0. They still get Reflex saving throws.

You can rule otherwise in your games, but it isn't RAW.

Also according to Taelas's incorrect interpretation, teleportation spells such as Dimension Door result in you being able to touch and transport a "willing" target of an unconscious creature, but that willing creature cannot willingly forgo the save, so they have to make will save and then sometimes not be transported anyway.

That is not something that happens, because that is not how the spell works. It only affects willing creatures and objects, and only objects get a saving throw.

[Beheld]

That is not something that happens, because that is not how the spell works. It only affects willing creatures and objects, and only objects get a saving throw.

That is not what the text of the dimension door spell says.

[Taelas]

That is not what the text of the dimension door spell says.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionDoor.htm

Really. Really?

"Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object)"

Please. Tell me again that that is not what it says. Please.

[Beheld]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionDoor.htm

Really. Really?

"Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object)"

Please. Tell me again that that is not what it says. Please.

None is for you, and Will Negates is for not you. Personal Spells offer no saving throw, and Will negates (objects) means that creatures and objects make will saves. "(This notation does not mean that a spell can be cast only on objects. Some spells of this sort can be cast on creatures or objects.)"

So yes, Dimension door does not say that the willing creatures you touch are not offered a saving throw. Teleport does, but Dimension Door does not.

Therefore if you claim that unconscious creatures are willing only for targets, they still make a save against Dimension Door, but if you recognize them as willing for the purposes of targets and also forgoing saves, then you can teleport unconscious people with a 100% success rate, and boosting your will save doesn't make you more likely to be left behind when the party skedaddles while you are unconscious.

[Taelas]

.... are you seriously trying to argue that "Will negates (object)" applies to creatures?

Yeah, okay, I'm done.

[Beheld]

.... are you seriously trying to argue that "Will negates (object)" applies to creatures?

Yeah, okay, I'm done.

So what do you think happens when I cast Telekinesis Violent Thrust to throw 5 goblins off a cliff? I mean, on the one hand, it says "Will Negates(object) or None" in the saving throw entry, and on the other hand it specifically says that you can use Violent Thrust to throw creatures, and it specifically says that creatures get a saving throw.

I mean, there are two options:
1) This part of the rules is not a filthy lie by the evil designers trying to trick you:

Saving Throw

...

(object)
The spell can be cast on objects, which receive saving throws only if they are magical or if they are attended (held, worn, grasped, or the like) by a creature resisting the spell, in which case the object uses the creature’s saving throw bonus unless its own bonus is greater. (This notation does not mean that a spell can be cast only on objects. Some spells of this sort can be cast on creatures or objects.) A magic item’s saving throw bonuses are each equal to 2 + one-half the item’s caster level.

2) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

I lied, there is only one option.