Making a Sage, would like input.

[unbutu]

I am joining a campaign. I'll play a 3rd party class called Sage. I would like you guys to take a look at it and comment. What do you think of the spell list. What do you think of the class features.

What do you imagine will be it's role. Do you see arrangements of class features + spells that can make great builds ?

EDIT: Here is my current biggest question. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...20&postcount=5

Updated links for the class:

If google drive works for you:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...Ws&usp=sharing

Just in case, here is another way to see it, on the creator's blog.

http://kindofonfire.weebly.com/origi.../meet-the-sage

with this as well:

Spoiler: Spell List up to lvl 4 spells

Show

Orisons - Arcane Mark, Breeze, Create Water, Daze, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Enhanced Diplomacy, Guidance, Know Direction, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Prestidigitation, Purify Food and Drink, Read Magic, Resistance, Root, Spark, Stabilize, Virtue

Level 1 Spells - Abstemiousness, Alter Winds, Ant Haul, Anticipate Peril, Aspect of the Falcon, Aspect of the Nightingale, Blend, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Command, Comprehend Languages, Cultural Adaptation, Cure Light Wounds, Deadeye’s Lore, Deathwatch, Detect Animals or Plants, Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Detect Charm, Detect the Faithful, Detect Snares and Pits, Detect Undead, Doom, Endure Elements, Enlarge Person, Entangle, Expeditious Excavation, Faerie Fire, Fairness, Feather Step, Forbid Action, Frostbite, Gentle Breeze, Goodberry, Gravity Bow, Grease, Heighten Awareness, Jump, Keen Senses, Know the Enemy, Liberating Command, Line in the Sand, Longshot, Longstrider, Mage Armor, Magic Stone, Moment of Greatness, Monkey Fish, Mount, Nature’s Paths, Obscuring Mist, Pass without a Trace, Peacebond, Produce Flame, Read Weather, Reduce Person, Remove Sickness, Shield, Shillelagh, Snowball, Snow Shap, Speak with Animals, Tracking Mark, Wave Shield, Whispering Lore, Windy Escape

Level 2 Spells - Air Step, Ant Haul (Communal), Arcane Lock, Animal Messenger, Aspect of the Bear, Badger’s Ferocity, Barkskin, Bear’s Endurance, Bestow Insight, Bestow Weapon Proficiency, Blade Tutor’s Spirit, Blur, Book Ward, Bull’s Strength, Burning Gaze, Burning Sphere, Burst of Radiance, Campfire Wall, Cat’s Grace, Create Pit, Continual Flame, Cure Moderate Wounds, Darkness, Detect Thoughts, Dust of Twilight, Embrace Destiny, Endure Elements (Communal), Escaping Ward, Flame Blade, Flaming Sphere, Fog Cloud, Fox’s Cunning, Glitterdust, Groundswell, Hidden Knowledge, Ice Slick, Investigative Mind, Knock, Levitate, Mirror Hideaway, Mount (Communal), Mud Buddy, Obscure Object, Oppressive Boredom, Owl’s Wisdom, Resist Energy, Restoration (Lesser), Ricochet Shot, River Whip, Share Language, Share Memory, Shatter, Silk to Steel, Slipstream, Snow Shape, Stone Call, Stone Shield, Tactical Acumen, Track Ship, Tremor Blast, Warding Weapon, Web, Web Shelter, Wild Instinct, Wood Shape

Level 3 Spells - Ablative Barrier, Ablative Sphere, Air Breathing, Air Geyser, Arcane Sight, Ash Storm, Aura Sight, Beast Shape I, Blacklight, Blade Snare, Blessing of Fervor, Call the Void, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Cloak of Winds, Contingent Action, Cure Serious Wounds, Daylight, Discern Value, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Fly, Force Anchor, Gentle Repose,, Harrowing, Haste, Hostile Levitation, Isolate, Monstrous Physique I, Nauseating Trail, Nondetection, Paragon Surge, Protection from Energy, Resist Energy (Communal), Secret Page, Seek Thoughts, Sepia Snake Sigil, Share Language (Communal), Slow, Spherescry, Spiked Pit, Stinking Cloud, Storm Step, Sundered Serpent Coil, Suggestion, Tiny Hut, Tongues, Undead Anatomy I, Unravel Destiny, Web Bolt, Wind Wall, Vampiric Touch

Level 4 Spells - Life Bubble
Earth Glide, Globe of Tranquil Water, Grove of Respite, Freedom of Movement,

The game is a medieval-fantasy Stargate-type thing. The party is somewhat well rounded;

Spoiler: The party

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1-Possessor(3rd party): Charisma swasbuckler
2-Vampire ish class(3rd party), Resilient strenght fighter.
3-A kinetiscist from Occult mysteries (I think it's a constitution based dps, is it ? )
4-Me : The sage (3rd party), divine, does not prepare spell, cast from a shorter Shaman list. Here is the Class information :

So I was thinking...
Role
The way I see myself playing with this party:
-We have a lot of meatshields-sword wielding people. I can buff them, they will shine, they will like it, I will love it too.
-Battlefield control spells. I love putting some ennemies in a pit while we fight the rest. Blocking a choke with grease/ a wall /a web.
-This class has access to all his learned spells all the time. It seems like if I can get the right spells for the situation, it will be wonderfull to use them :) This is the dream !

Race:
Samsaran: Want the WIS bonus. The extra spells known from the alternate race features are very welcome.

Skills
The Possessor has the diplomatic skills covered. I'll just get some knowledge, perception, sense motive. Knowledge skills become wisdom-dependant at lvl 7. I'm thinking about getting the trait where you can disable magic traps since it's a class skill and we have no rogue or dex based characters in the group.

Feats
That the biggest question. What does this guy do well, and what feats could be focused on to help it ?


Class features
See the link(Praxis, extra spells, spells swaps) I don't know what spells to prioritise, really. First impression seems that bull strenght and such buffs will quiclky become useless as they get items that boost those stats. I guess I have to find the best buffs in that spell list.

Spoiler: Attributes

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Attributes
20 point buy.
Str: 9
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 7

The wisdom gets most of the points, but I'm hesitant to go to 18. Always seemed to me like it was very punishing to go high in point buy.

[unbutu]

Just to share:

Here is the campaign page if you want to see: https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/det...chools-not-out

The year is 2003. I'm playing Park, Kim Jung Il's fictionnal younger brother, who had no hope of being crowned supreme ruler of North Korea. He would like to save the country from starvation, so need to find a way to become his father's favorite son before he pass away, otherwise a new dictator will take his place !

But that secret organisation has other plans for Park, and forcefully teleported him in that strange academy where they make heroes.

[Novawurmson]

The campaign page is blocked, as is the class on google docs. I can only see the spell list and the praxis information.

[unbutu]

Thanks for saying. I've got a new link; It really says ''Anyone with the link can view''.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...Ws&usp=sharing

Just in case, here is another way to see it, on the creator's blog.

http://kindofonfire.weebly.com/origi.../meet-the-sage

Spoiler: Spell List up to lvl 4 spells

Show

Orisons - Arcane Mark, Breeze, Create Water, Daze, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Enhanced Diplomacy, Guidance, Know Direction, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Prestidigitation, Purify Food and Drink, Read Magic, Resistance, Root, Spark, Stabilize, Virtue

Level 1 Spells - Abstemiousness, Alter Winds, Ant Haul, Anticipate Peril, Aspect of the Falcon, Aspect of the Nightingale, Blend, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Command, Comprehend Languages, Cultural Adaptation, Cure Light Wounds, Deadeye’s Lore, Deathwatch, Detect Animals or Plants, Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Detect Charm, Detect the Faithful, Detect Snares and Pits, Detect Undead, Doom, Endure Elements, Enlarge Person, Entangle, Expeditious Excavation, Faerie Fire, Fairness, Feather Step, Forbid Action, Frostbite, Gentle Breeze, Goodberry, Gravity Bow, Grease, Heighten Awareness, Jump, Keen Senses, Know the Enemy, Liberating Command, Line in the Sand, Longshot, Longstrider, Mage Armor, Magic Stone, Moment of Greatness, Monkey Fish, Mount, Nature’s Paths, Obscuring Mist, Pass without a Trace, Peacebond, Produce Flame, Read Weather, Reduce Person, Remove Sickness, Shield, Shillelagh, Snowball, Snow Shap, Speak with Animals, Tracking Mark, Wave Shield, Whispering Lore, Windy Escape

Level 2 Spells - Air Step, Ant Haul (Communal), Arcane Lock, Animal Messenger, Aspect of the Bear, Badger’s Ferocity, Barkskin, Bear’s Endurance, Bestow Insight, Bestow Weapon Proficiency, Blade Tutor’s Spirit, Blur, Book Ward, Bull’s Strength, Burning Gaze, Burning Sphere, Burst of Radiance, Campfire Wall, Cat’s Grace, Create Pit, Continual Flame, Cure Moderate Wounds, Darkness, Detect Thoughts, Dust of Twilight, Embrace Destiny, Endure Elements (Communal), Escaping Ward, Flame Blade, Flaming Sphere, Fog Cloud, Fox’s Cunning, Glitterdust, Groundswell, Hidden Knowledge, Ice Slick, Investigative Mind, Knock, Levitate, Mirror Hideaway, Mount (Communal), Mud Buddy, Obscure Object, Oppressive Boredom, Owl’s Wisdom, Resist Energy, Restoration (Lesser), Ricochet Shot, River Whip, Share Language, Share Memory, Shatter, Silk to Steel, Slipstream, Snow Shape, Stone Call, Stone Shield, Tactical Acumen, Track Ship, Tremor Blast, Warding Weapon, Web, Web Shelter, Wild Instinct, Wood Shape

Level 3 Spells - Ablative Barrier, Ablative Sphere, Air Breathing, Air Geyser, Arcane Sight, Ash Storm, Aura Sight, Beast Shape I, Blacklight, Blade Snare, Blessing of Fervor, Call the Void, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Cloak of Winds, Contingent Action, Cure Serious Wounds, Daylight, Discern Value, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Fly, Force Anchor, Gentle Repose,, Harrowing, Haste, Hostile Levitation, Isolate, Monstrous Physique I, Nauseating Trail, Nondetection, Paragon Surge, Protection from Energy, Resist Energy (Communal), Secret Page, Seek Thoughts, Sepia Snake Sigil, Share Language (Communal), Slow, Spherescry, Spiked Pit, Stinking Cloud, Storm Step, Sundered Serpent Coil, Suggestion, Tiny Hut, Tongues, Undead Anatomy I, Unravel Destiny, Web Bolt, Wind Wall, Vampiric Touch

Level 4 Spells - Life Bubble
Earth Glide, Globe of Tranquil Water, Grove of Respite, Freedom of Movement,

[unbutu]

Alright I've narrowed it down to some questions:

Concerning Praxis:

Wich one has the most value at lvl 20 ? :

+8 Shield bonus to AC
+8 Morale bonus to hit with spells (touch/rays) or weapons
+8 dmg/dice on spells, up to a maximum per target of 20
+5 to the DC to of your spells, but a spell can't be harder to resist than your highest lvl spell. (So if a lvl 9 spell has a DC of 25, Lvl 8 to 4 also have a DC of 25. Lvl 3 starts going down to 24, ect.
+8 To beat Spell Resistence

Spoiler: My try at ordering them

Show

+8 dmg /dice
+8 beat spell resistence
+8 to hit with spells/weapons
+5 spells DC max = Lvl 9 spell DC
+8 shield bonus AC (is there items that give a big shield bonus to AC ? )

[Kurald Galain]

+8 Shield bonus to AC
+8 Morale bonus to hit with spells (touch/rays) or weapons
+8 dmg/dice on spells, up to a maximum per target of 20
+5 to the DC to of your spells, but a spell can't be harder to resist than your highest lvl spell. (So if a lvl 9 spell has a DC of 25, Lvl 8 to 4 also have a DC of 25. Lvl 3 starts going down to 24, ect.
+8 To beat Spell Resistence

From weak to strong,

AC is irrelevant at level 20, you should be using other defenses.
+8 to hit isn't needed, you should automatically connect with touch attacks at that level.
8d6 extra damage (i.e. 28 on average) isn't that much at this level either.
+5 to save DC is very good.
+8 to beat SR is even better.

[vasilidor]

actually, in pathfinder i created a defense build fighter that could potentialy solo the tarasque into submision. ac 55. an extra +8 ac would not be sneazed at. it all depends on the needs of a party.