Degrees of "Masterwork"

[Cicciograna]

I don't like the idea that a masterwork sword crafted by a 1st level Commoner is the same quality of a masterwork sword crafted by a 20th level Expert: the DC to craft it is the same, the mechanical effects too, the only difference is in crafting time due to the different amount of ranks in the appropriate skill; more, I don't like the idea that both sword could, theoretically, become +5 Vorpal Longswords: I always imagined that both Anduril and Barrow-downs swords are of masterwork quality, but the former should be many orders of magnitude better than the latters.

So I made up a system of "masterwork degrees", in which basically weapons and armors can have different levels of quality if the crafter accepts a higher DC: better weapons (armors) would have additional bonuses; more, the highest DC, the highest the magic bonus the weapon (armor) can receive.

{table=head]

DC

|

Max Magic Bonus

|

Weapon bonus

|

Weapon cost

|

Armor bonus

|

Armor cost
20

|

+0

| +1 on Attack rolls |

+300

| -1 Skill check penality |

+150
22

|

+1

| - |

+400

| - |

+250
24

|

+2

| - |

+500

| - |

+450
26

|

+3

| Item weights only 2/3 |

+700

| +1 Max Dex Bonus |

+650
28

|

+4

| - |

+900

| - |

+800
30

|

+5

| - |

+1000

| - |

+950
32

|

+6

| +1 on Damage rolls |

+1200

| Item weights only 2/3 |

+1100
34

|

+7

| - |

+1500

| - |

+1300
36

|

+8

| - |

+1800

| - |

+1500
38

|

+9

| +1 on Critical range (*)|

+2200

| -1 Skill check penality (**)|

+1800
40

|

+10

| - |

+2600

| - |

+2200

[/table]

(*) Stacks with Improved Critical, but works after the Feat (the Crit range is doubled, then its increased by 1); doesn't stack with Keen edge or the keen weapon property.
(**) Stacks with the first reduction, for a cumulative -2 penality to SKill checks.

With this system, a high level Experts is more significant than a Commoner with ranks in Craft (Weapons), as better masterwork weapons can receive a better enchantment.

Tell me if you think this is crap, or give some suggestion to improve the system.

[lesser_minion]

Pathfinder added in a feat which let you use appropriate Craft skills to enchant magic items and use your ranks in place of a caster level.

Dragon also had some rules for customising mundane weapons in ways other than "+1 to hit" - for example, by including a fuller, or a serrated blade.

Some of the effects were a bit unrealistic (the useful function a fuller performs is to eliminate less useful material, making the blade lighter for the same resilience and less cost, whereas in Dragon magazine it adds +2 hardness).

I quite like your system though - it makes sense, although I like the idea of a guy with 20 ranks in Craft being able to actually work magic on the blade itself, as in Pathfinder. If you're going on real-world, non-magical stuff, bear in mind that even with things like the Fuller, there isn't that much you can do to make the blade lighter.

Note also that a specialist should have a chance of hitting DC 40 (pinnacle of real-world human endeavour) skill checks by about level 5 or 6.

[Harperfan7]

Cool. I think I'll probably use this.

I think I would probably expand it to DC 50 and spread them out over that.
Instead of reducing weapon weight, what about helping ignore damage reduction?
On armor, shouldn't there be an increased AC somewhere in there?

[lesser_minion]

Increased hardness and hitpoints would also be an option - the Folded Steel Technique would have been ridiculous applied to decent quality iron (IIUC, it was never adopted in Europe for precisely that reason)

[Cicciograna]

Cool. I think I'll probably use this.

I think I would probably expand it to DC 50 and spread them out over that.

My first idea was to reach DC 50, but I made a small calculation which pointed me towards a lesser DC.
I start from the assumption that a crafter works "taking 10" on his check: this axiom can work or not for you, but I chose to start from this. So assuming he takes 10 on every check, to craft a DC 50 itam he would need a skill score of at least 40, and from this value we can subtract many factors:

• -2 for assistants;
• -2 for masterwork tools;
• -3 for Skill focus;
• -1 for a base Int of 13;
• -3 for an increase of Int to 18 at level 20.

This gets us to a score of 29 that should come from skill ranks, which means that the crafter should be of level 26, assuming he doesn't use magic items to boost his abilities (such as an Headband of intellect or some tool that grants +10 to Craft checks), a little bit too high for me, but it could work for you.

Instead of reducing weapon weight, what about helping ignore damage reduction?

This could be nice, but as DR is material-based (such as 15/silver) or supernaturally-based (such as 10/chaos) I purposedly left it out.

On armor, shouldn't there be an increased AC somewhere in there?

This too, I purposedly left it out. I don't want to turn an armor in a better armor: if a breastplate gives its level of protection, a masterwork version of it would have different qualities, be lighter or less cumbersome, but it won't give a better defense beacuse it is still a breastplate. But obviously you are free to increase the AC value of your armor, if you please: my only suggestion is to give this property late, beacuse a too easily achievable AC increase without resorting to magic could lead to its abuse.

Increased hardness and hitpoints would also be an option - the Folded Steel Technique would have been ridiculous applied to decent quality iron (IIUC, it was never adopted in Europe for precisely that reason)

This is really nice. One could say that for every degree of quality over the first, hardness increases by 1 and hit points by 2, for example.

Note also that a specialist should have a chance of hitting DC 40 (pinnacle of real-world human endeavour) skill checks by about level 5 or 6.

Yes, I know. But I desired to have epic crafters to be really epic (I'm not using the word "epic" in D&D terms - I'm using it as an adjective), so to have really good weapons it's not sufficient to be an expert crafter: it takes you to be a real god among metal workers, something like Hephaestus, the best of the best...or in game terms, a level 17-18 Expert.

[Fortuna]

Perhaps say that every +6 to the DC is a degree of quality, but give some options about what increases. Perhaps give the choice between the options given at every degree, but say that you cannot use the same option twice consecutively. That way, a nigh-epic Expert can choose what awesomeness they have their weapon possess.

[Cicciograna]

Perhaps say that every +6 to the DC is a degree of quality, but give some options about what increases. Perhaps give the choice between the options given at every degree, but say that you cannot use the same option twice consecutively. That way, a nigh-epic Expert can choose what awesomeness they have their weapon possess.

I was originally thinking about this option, but discarded it because couldn't come up with enough properties to enhance . Any help is welcome, if you have any idea just suggest it!

[Set]

Having each of the MW properties be individual would be neat;

The 'generic' MW sword would be +1 to attack and have +5 to the Craft DC (which would make MW simple weapons or light armors a trifle easier and MW exotic weapons and heavy armors a bit harder, since Craft DCs range from 12 to 18).

Adding a +1 to hardness and +X hit points could require another +5 to the DC. (With X being based on the size of the item. A dagger or short sword would only get +1 hit point, while a longsword or shortspear would get +3 and a quarterstaff or halberd would get +5, for instance. 'Shirt' armors like the Chain shirt or Breastplate would get +3, while all full body armors would get +5.) This enhancement would be one of the very few that could be taken more than once, perhaps.

Adding a +1 to damage rolls would be +10 to the DC.

Adding +1 to Max Dex Bonus for armor would be +5 to DC.

Removing -1 worth of Armor Skill Check Penalty could be another +5 to DC.

Adding to Critical Threat, I'd skip. Instead, the weapon might gain +1 to hit additionally on rolls to Confirm critical threads.

Specially reinforced armor (but not shields), on the other hand, would grant an extra +1 Armor Bonus against rolls to confirm critical threats like DiY Ysgardian Heartwire. This might be another option that one can take more than once, creating a suit of armor that gives +2 AC vs. rolls to confirm Crits, for example.

Some things, like changing armor from Medium to Light, or increasing the die size of a weapon, would be beyond the reach of mastercrafting.

The various 'craft' templates from DMG2 (feycraft, githcraft, etc.) might also be good places to pillage for enhancements.


There might even be some funky restrictions that result in a crafter being able to enhance a MW weapon or MW suit of armor for a limited time, honing blades before a battle to give the users a +1 to their first damage roll (or first few damage rolls, depending on how well he makes his check), or, by fitting the armor on the individual personally, giving that person a +1 MDB and -1 ACP for that day's work. Not everyone can bring a personal 'fitter' or 'sharpener' along with them, so it would be incentive for someone in the group to study Armorsmithing or Weaponsmithing. This would remove that functionality from the Craft check in creating an item, and only apply to 'normal' Masterwork items, but give the Crafter something to do *during* the adventure, instead of just between adventures.

This option would replace the permanant +1 damage MW option with the 'sharpen before battle' option, but might be acceptable to stack for the purposes of MW armor and further increased MDB / ACP bonuses and penalties.

(Indeed, it would make the most sense for MDB and ACP bonuses from MW armor to be the result of custom fitting, and only to apply to a specific single individual, for whom the armor is specifically crafted and fitted. For anyone else, the armor wouldn't even give the *normal* -1 ACP benefit, as it needs to be adjusted by an Armorsmith (at a relatively easy check) to do so, and will never give it's special increased benefit to anyone other than the person it is designed for (barring the use of alter self or something...).