Dysfunctional Rules VIII: When General Trumps Specific

[ShurikVch]

I think this one hasn't been mentioned:

Rule on action types for Extraordinary abilities:



Factotum ability:


So, accordingly a Factotum can spend 3 points and a standard action to get a standard action. Wait what?

Spoiler

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ethically I should mention this is now contradicted by the Official glossary on the web, however the most recent 3.5 PHB is in agreement with the SRD20 that actions (ie Cunning Surge) are standard, whereas reactions or always on abilities are no action at all.

No, not exactly
SRD may say so, but, according to any single Monster Manual,

Spoiler: Using an extraordinary ability is a free action

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Using an extraordinary ability is a free action unless otherwise noted.

Using an extraordinary ability is a free action unless otherwise noted.

Using an extraordinary ability is a free action unless otherwise noted.

Using an extraordinary ability is a free action unless otherwise noted.

Using an extraordinary ability is a free action unless otherwise noted.

Rules Compendium support it too:

Using an extraordinary ability is a free action unless otherwise noted.

Dungeon Master's Guide don't specify type of action for Extraordinary Abilities:

Extraordinary Abilities (Ex): Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical. They are, however, not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training (which, in game terms, means to take a new character class). A monk’s ability to evade attacks and a barbarian’s uncanny dodge are extraordinary abilities. Effects or areas that negate or disrupt magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities.

The only book which disagree is Player's Handbook:

Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are usually standard actions that cannot be disrupted, do not require concentration, and do not provoke attacks of opportunity.

While it may cause certain problem when action type is unspecified (Is it standard or free action?), Cunning Surge is still not a "standard action to get a standard action" - after all, even PHB says "usually", not "always"

[Chronos]

And the MM and PHB rules are reconcilable: That could just mean that most extraordinary abilities are standard actions by virtue of most of them being specified as standard, but the occasional ones without a specified action type are free.

[bekeleven]

The Player's Handbook, for example, gives all the rules for playing the game, for playing PC races, and for using base class descriptions.
[...]
The Monster Manual is the primary source for monster descriptions, templates, and supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities.

All "base" classes not presented in the player's handbook are officially referred to as "Standard Classes," e.g:

New Standard Class: Factotum

Looks like the MM has it.

[Jormengand]

Fun with Elocaters:

"An elocater of 4th level or higher can flank enemies from seemingly impossible angles. She can designate any adjacent square as the square from which flanking against an ally is determined (including the square where she stands, as normal). She can designate the square at the beginning of her turn or at any time during her turn. The designated square remains her effective square for flanking until she is no longer adjacent to it or until she chooses a different square (at the start of one of her turns). The character can even choose a square that is impassable or occupied."

So, this ability allows you to flank your enemies... except that it only works on your allies.

Also, the Catsfeet spell, from Complete Mage, aids with move silently checks, only it has a verbal component.

[Debatra]

If you step on a caltrop, it injures your foot. This somehow also inhibits your flying.

[Trixie]

Weapon Graft (Fiend Folio) and Graft Weapon are both share similar dysfunction:While it's completely understandable for most weapons, I can't see how exactly grafting a Gauntlet (or Poison Ring) can cause so much penalties

See this video (yes, the gauntlet is badly made modern copy with much less articulation than originals and the guy's knowledge is barely amateur level but it does show actual medieval plated gauntlet's weaknesses).

[Jormengand]

Psicrystals belonging to Psychic Warriors, Ardents, Psychic Rogues (insert every psionic class that isn't Psion or Wilder here) and creatures with the Hidden Talent feat don't have any hit dice. This may cause funky effects when something calls their hit dice.

[PallentisLunam]

Psicrystals belonging to Psychic Warriors, Ardents, Psychic Rogues (insert every psionic class that isn't Psion or Wilder here) and creatures with the Hidden Talent feat don't have any hit dice. This may cause funky effects when something calls their hit dice.

Their stat block doesn't specify the class of their owner

[The Random NPC]

Their stat block doesn't specify the class of their owner

As we all know, text trumps table, and the text says that the Psicrystal's HD is equal to it's master's counting only Psion and Wilder. Therefore, if you get a Psicrystal without being either of those classes, your Psicrystal has 0 HD.

[bekeleven]

Can I get a judge call?

Dysfunctions that only arise because of a specific reading of the text (In combat, everyone is flat-footed until they act, so they must have been flat-footed whenever they weren't in combat, even though the text only specifies that they're flat-footed in combat. Someone who can't be flanked can't have a person on each side of them because if they did, they would be flanked.) Unless every possible reading of the text is dysfunctional no matter how you read it

Does the table making perfect sense and being the obvious intent count?

[Inevitability]

See this video (yes, the gauntlet is badly made modern copy with much less articulation than originals and the guy's knowledge is barely amateur level but it does show actual medieval plated gauntlet's weaknesses).

Yes, but still. You should be able to hold something in a gauntlet, even if that gauntlet's grafted to your skin.

[Andezzar]

You attach any melee weapon you can use in one hand—mundane, psionic, or magical—onto the end of one of your arms.

Is a gauntlet really a weapon that you normally use in one hand? To me the normal use is to it on one's hand. If you actually grab the gauntlet and hit someone instead of wearing it and hitting someone the penalties are totally understandable. I think the writers only had that way of using a weapon in mind.

[Chronos]

Quoth bekeleven:

Does the table making perfect sense and being the obvious intent count?

Not when it's clearly and explicitly contradicted by the text, it doesn't. Besides, the intent isn't obvious: Even if they meant to say "levels in psionic classes" instead of "levels in psion or wilder", that would still leave unclear the status of masters with the Wild Talent feat.

[ShurikVch]

See this video (yes, the gauntlet is badly made modern copy with much less articulation than originals and the guy's knowledge is barely amateur level but it does show actual medieval plated gauntlet's weaknesses).

Graft/power completely prevent usage of grafted hand (except for attacks).
1) How about the two-handed weapons? Shouldn't be gauntlet (even if grafted) explicitly allow to use it?
2) If gauntlet don't inflict -2 penalty on skill checks while worn normally, then why it should when grafted?
3) Later gauntlets were nimble enough to shoot pistols
4) How about the Poison Ring? It take just one finger, but (by the RAW) still make whole hand unusable

Is a gauntlet really a weapon that you normally use in one hand? To me the normal use is to it on one's hand. If you actually grab the gauntlet and hit someone instead of wearing it and hitting someone the penalties are totally understandable. I think the writers only had that way of using a weapon in mind.

Amusingly, this ruling still don't prevent from grafting retractable claws, which would go exactly in hand, and, while retracted, shouldn't prevent hand usage, or incur skill check penalties

Not when it's clearly and explicitly contradicted by the text, it doesn't. Besides, the intent isn't obvious: Even if they meant to say "levels in psionic classes" instead of "levels in psion or wilder", that would still leave unclear the status of masters with the Wild Talent feat.

Or racial manifesting...

[Story]

Fun with Elocaters:

"An elocater of 4th level or higher can flank enemies from seemingly impossible angles. She can designate any adjacent square as the square from which flanking against an ally is determined (including the square where she stands, as normal). She can designate the square at the beginning of her turn or at any time during her turn. The designated square remains her effective square for flanking until she is no longer adjacent to it or until she chooses a different square (at the start of one of her turns). The character can even choose a square that is impassable or occupied."

So, this ability allows you to flank your enemies... except that it only works on your allies.

I think the intent is pretty clear here. It's just an ambiguously used preposition.

[Jormengand]

I think the intent is pretty clear here. It's just an ambiguously used preposition.

Only you can't use against like that in English.

[Story]

You could say "against a wall" so why not "against an ally"? They were going for the other side meaning.

[Jormengand]

You could say "against a wall" so why not "against an ally"? They were going for the other side meaning.

Right, but if something is against a wall it means it's leaning on or hung on the wall, not that there's an enemy between it and the wall.

[Chronos]

On the other hand, you might refer to a hammer as being against an anvil, even though the whole point of using a hammer against an anvil is that there's something being smashed in between. Like flanking.

[Jormengand]

On the other hand, you might refer to a hammer as being against an anvil, even though the whole point of using a hammer against an anvil is that there's something being smashed in between. Like flanking.

If you say "The hammer is against the anvil", the only thing I can see that meaning is that the hammer is leaning on the anvil. If you say "The hammer is being hit against the anvil," the only thing I can see that meaning is that the hammer is being hit directly onto the anvil, with nothing in between. Either way, it doesn't make the kind of sense you want it to.

[bekeleven]

If you say "The hammer is against the anvil", the only thing I can see that meaning is that the hammer is leaning on the anvil. If you say "The hammer is being hit against the anvil," the only thing I can see that meaning is that the hammer is being hit directly onto the anvil, with nothing in between. Either way, it doesn't make the kind of sense you want it to.

These are not my associations with these terms.

Ctrl-F "Hammer Hitting Anvil"

[Jormengand]

Or we could just look up what against means directly.

in or into physical contact with (something), so as to be supported by or collide with it.

tl;dr there is no possible way in the English language that "Against an ally" can be synonymous with "Opposite an ally".

[georgie_leech]

Or we could just look up what against means directly.



tl;dr there is no possible way in the English language that "Against an ally" can be synonymous with "Opposite an ally".

I direct your attention to definition 2 here.

[PallentisLunam]

I direct your attention to definition 2 here.

Oh god, not this affected crap again.

[Jormengand]

I direct your attention to definition 2 here.

Huh. Weird that I haven't heard it used like that before, but fine.

Oh god, not this affected crap again.

Oh god, not this "Oh god, not this affected crap again." crap again.

[Story]

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this before, but I just realized that Magic Aura doesn't specifically negate its own aura. So if you cast it on an item, that item will appear nonmagical except that it also has an illusion aura.

[Inevitability]

Oh god, not this "Oh god, not this affected crap again." crap again.

Oh god, not this "Oh god, not this "Oh god, not this affected crap again." crap again." crap again.

[Debatra]

Oh god, not this affected crap again.

Oh god, not this "Oh god, not this affected crap again." crap again.

Oh god, not this "Oh god, not this "Oh god, not this affected crap again." crap again." crap again.

...Well at least it's better than arguing over "affected".

[Triskavanski]

I wonder if Bone Fiddle counts in here?

As written it can't affect undead, even if said undead are skeletal or have a skeleton in them.

[PallentisLunam]

Has anyone noted before that an Urban Ranger get a bonus to Survival against his Favored Enemy (meant to help him track) even though an Urban Ranger tracks using Gather Information and Survival is no longer a class skill for him