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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    What I (and I think Natolaw too) was asking is, does the slide count as "move" for purposes of triggering that extra damage? Dariathlon said No, but I've seen similar situations where the answer was Yes ... stuff like sliding someone in and out of a damaging zone.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    That is not how I interpreted the OP's question. He was talking about taking the shift and slide on the next turn and dealing the extra damage at that point.

    I can see an argument for being able to claim the damage when you slide them. Since all of these are interactions within the same power, order becomes important. And because one of the effects only happens when wielding a particular weapon, the order it was written in got all screwed up. If a DM said that they wanted the slide to trigger the extra damage, I'd be fine with it. But I feel that my post better aligns with the intent of the power. Yes, I know this isn't the place to bring up intent, but I think if either reading is equally valid (which I think they are) then intent can be considered.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by dariathalon View Post
    That is not how I interpreted the OP's question ... Since all of these are interactions within the same power, order becomes important. And because one of the effects only happens when wielding a particular weapon, the order it was written in got all screwed up.
    Ahh, gotcha, makes sense.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    What I (and I think Natolaw too) was asking is, does the slide count as "move" for purposes of triggering that extra damage? Dariathlon said No, but I've seen similar situations where the answer was Yes ... stuff like sliding someone in and out of a damaging zone.
    Slide/Push/Pull are all forced movement and count as moving. With the specific exception of Opportunity Attacks.

    Powers that say 'Take damage on a move' do damage as a result of a Slide/Push/Pull that meets those options. Which tends to have some issues due to how many times one might get moved per turn/round.

    So the most modern 4e powers tend to have 'maximum of 1/turn' kind of language to prevent abuse/for clarity...

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q 38

    As a Vampire, you automatically get the at-will power at level one. It has a special effect saying that you can use it as a melee basic attack. I am pretty sure this means that you can use it for opportunity attacks as well as add the damage of the thing that you are using to make the attack with (e.g. fists, rapier etc.)

    What I am confused by, is that some of the other Vampire attacks say that you
    "Make a brutal attack" (Feral assault) or say something along the lines of 'your hunger/shadow powers give you strength and you lash out at your enemies'

    Because these are obviously physical attacks, do you add the damage of your weapon (or at the very least, your fists) onto the damage of the power?

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    A 38

    Ok, you see that part at the top of the power in italics. Ignore it, and never read it again. The bolded words are the important ones. If a power says you deal [W] damage, that's whatever weapon you are using.

    Any power that counts as a Melee Basic Attack, or MBA, can be used for OAs, and like all powers, if it has the [W], then you add your [W]eapon die to it.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    A 38

    Ok, you see that part at the top of the power in italics. Ignore it, and never read it again. The bolded words are the important ones. If a power says you deal [W] damage, that's whatever weapon you are using.

    Any power that counts as a Melee Basic Attack, or MBA, can be used for OAs, and like all powers, if it has the [W], then you add your [W]eapon die to it.
    Okay thanks, I was wondering about whether the flavour text matters or not, I didnt think it was but I was asked by my friend and I was wondering myself.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    A 38B

    Tegu answered your main question correctly, but I am worried about this bolded bit in your question:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ship's dog View Post
    As a Vampire, you automatically get the at-will power at level one. It has a special effect saying that you can use it as a melee basic attack. I am pretty sure this means that you can use it for opportunity attacks as well as add the damage of the thing that you are using to make the attack with (e.g. fists, rapier etc.)
    Vampire Slam is an implement attack which deals 1d10+dex modifier damage, even if you use it as a melee basic attack.

    Since it lacks the weapon keyword, you cannot use a weapon to make this attack, unless you can use that weapon as an implement. Please note that this does not mean that you can't describe the attack as coming from a weapon.

    Since it lacks a [W] placeholder, you cannot use your weapon's damage die as part of the damage roll of this attack, even if you are using a weapon as the implement for this power.
    Last edited by Sol; 2016-10-18 at 12:18 PM.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q 39

    So I have another question.

    In the description of the feats 'two-weapon fighting' and 'two-weapon defence', their effects say that you need to be holding a weapon in each hand. For abilities that do not have the [W] marking but can still be used basic attacks, I am pretty sure that you still apply these feat bonuses even though you do not need to wield a weapon to use these abilities.

    Am I wrong? Or is there some nuance in that RAI for some reason do apply here that I'm overlooking?

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ship's dog View Post
    Q 39

    So I have another question.

    In the description of the feats 'two-weapon fighting' and 'two-weapon defence', their effects say that you need to be holding a weapon in each hand. For abilities that do not have the [W] marking but can still be used basic attacks, I am pretty sure that you still apply these feat bonuses even though you do not need to wield a weapon to use these abilities.

    Am I wrong? Or is there some nuance in that RAI for some reason do apply here that I'm overlooking?
    Benefit: While wielding a melee weapon in each hand, you gain a +1 bonus to the damage rolls of weapon attacks that you make with a melee weapon.

    You have to hit the enemy with the melee weapon to get the bonus according to the feat. So it will only work with powers with the weapon keywords as those are the only ones in which you are actually hitting the enemy with your melee weapon.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Verbannon View Post
    Benefit: While wielding a melee weapon in each hand, you gain a +1 bonus to the damage rolls of weapon attacks that you make with a melee weapon.

    You have to hit the enemy with the melee weapon to get the bonus according to the feat. So it will only work with powers with the weapon keywords as those are the only ones in which you are actually hitting the enemy with your melee weapon.
    Ok thanks, I didn't see that last part. Sorry for asking a stupid question.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q40: Do ammunition using weapons require or use ammunition when used as an implement with an implement power? (Eg Bard casting Staggering Note with a Songbow.)

    Edit: The only relevant reference I can find is from RC p.105:
    "If a creature uses a projectile weapon to use an attack power against multiple targets, the creature needs one piece of ammunition for each target."
    Last edited by skelekon; 2016-11-13 at 03:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by skelekon View Post
    Q40: Do ammunition using weapons require or use ammunition when used as an implement with an implement power? (Eg Bard casting Staggering Note with a Songbow.)
    No. When used as an implement, they are treated as an implement, not a weapon. As such, they do not consume or require ammunition.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q41

    The party ranger is attacked with a melee attack. The party Battlemind uses Lightning Rush, an immediate interrupt, to change the target of the power to himself upon attacking the target with the power. Is the melee attack the attacker tried to make against the ranger still eligible as a prerequisite for the ranger to use Fox's Cunning, an immediate reaction, as the ranger was the original target and the trigger for Lightning Rush specifies "an enemy makes an attack against an ally"? Or is the ranger no longer able to use Fox's Cunning after the attack, because it is no longer the target due to an Interrupt, and Interrupts prelude Reactions?
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    A41

    You are correct. Immediate Reactions are taken after the trigger resolves, and the trigger in this case does not resolve as a valid trigger for Fox's Cunning.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q42: Can actions be "downgraded" in a similar manner to being able to use a Standard action to "take" another Move action?

    Example 1: A player uses their Standard Action to cast another Minor power (or to sustain a Minor power).

    Example 2: A player uses their Move Action to draw a weapon.

    Could I cast (or sustain) three minor powers in any given round by turning Standard/Move into minor actions, and is there RAW justification for this, which book should I cite in explaining to my DM?
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by CptPinkamena View Post
    Q42: Can actions be "downgraded" in a similar manner to being able to use a Standard action to "take" another Move action?
    A42. Yes. On page 268 of the Player's Handbook, there is a sidebar titled "Substituting Actions" that explains it and provides all of the potential combinations, to boot. There's even a few rules, like "Double Move", that are contingent on you understanding this.
    Last edited by ThePurple; 2016-11-27 at 10:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q43

    When Meliorating Plate Armor +1 increases its enhancement bonus to +2 because of the milestone property of the item, does that increase the base AC from +8 to +9 accordingly?

    The changes to how masterwork armor works makes it unclear to me, since now regular plate armor gives higher AC at higher enhancement bonuses.
    Last edited by Draculstar; 2016-11-29 at 06:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    A 43

    Quote Originally Posted by Draculstar View Post
    Q43

    When Meliorating Plate Armor +1 increases its enhancement bonus to +2 because of the milestone property of the item, does that increase the base AC from +8 to +9 accordingly?

    The changes to how masterwork armor works makes it unclear to me, since now regular plate armor gives higher AC at higher enhancement bonuses.
    An interesting thought, but no. The better armor must be crafted as such to get the bonus.

    Anyone else ever found it odd that adventurers of levels 15 to 20 suddenly find only feyweave, feyleather, darkhide, forgemail, wyrmscale and warplate, never lesser or greater types?
    Last edited by Dimers; 2016-11-29 at 06:57 PM.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    A 43



    An interesting thought, but no. The better armor must be crafted as such to get the bonus.

    Anyone else ever found it odd that adventurers of levels 15 to 20 suddenly find only feyweave, feyleather, darkhide, forgemail, wyrmscale and warplate, never lesser or greater types?
    No more weird than finding only certain ranges of enhancement bonuses. I always thought of it as needing a certain amount of masterwork...ness, to put the higher enhancement bonuses on. And that the difficulty and cost of making said masterwork armors means no one bothers to make the fancier set just to put a worse enhancement bonus on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    We should try to make that a thing; I think it might help civility. Hey, GitP, let's try to make this a thing: when you're arguing optimization strategies, RAW-logic, and similar such things that you'd never actually use in a game, tag your post [THEORETICAL] and/or use green text
    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    So a ranger is like a Bachelor of Applied Druidology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Jake View Post
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q 44

    Sorry if this is boring but this is more of a seeking of confirmation rather than a question.

    In PHB 1 it says that, when you wear light armour, you may add either your dexterity or intelligence modifier onto your AC. Because Ring Mail qualifies as light armor, do you still add either you dexterity or intelligence modifier onto your AC when using it?

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ship's dog View Post
    Because Ring Mail qualifies as light armor, do you still add either you dexterity or intelligence modifier onto your AC when using it?
    A44 Yes, it's light armor. If it didn't allow you to add an ability modifier, it would be absolutely laughable (it requires hide or chain mail prof and costs a feat on top of that). Ring Mail is simply hide armor that reduces the first damage against you each encounter by 2.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePurple View Post
    A44 Yes, it's light armor. If it didn't allow you to add an ability modifier, it would be absolutely laughable (it requires hide or chain mail prof and costs a feat on top of that). Ring Mail is simply hide armor that reduces the first damage against you each encounter by 2.
    It's also Hide Armor that takes Chain enchantments. In particular, people like to use it for INT based characters that grant attacks, like Warlords or potentially Bards, with the Tactician's Armor enchantment.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Thanks both of you. I was pretty sure that you could add your ability mod to it but I didn't know about the chain enchantments.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q45

    How does the damage for Raging Tempest work with censure of retribution giving +5 damage against the Oath of Enmity target?

    Spoiler: Raging Tempest Damage
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    1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage plus 1d6 lightning damage. The next time the target takes damage from an attack before the start of your next turn, it takes 1d6 extra thunder damage.


    Does the target take the retribution damage once for the main attack and once again if the target takes damage from an attack?
    Or does the target take it once for the main attack, once for the "plus 1d6 lightning damage", and a third time if the target takes damage from an attack?

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Draculstar View Post
    Q45

    How does the damage for Raging Tempest work with censure of retribution giving +5 damage against the Oath of Enmity target?

    Spoiler: Raging Tempest Damage
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    1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage plus 1d6 lightning damage. The next time the target takes damage from an attack before the start of your next turn, it takes 1d6 extra thunder damage.


    Does the target take the retribution damage once for the main attack and once again if the target takes damage from an attack?
    Or does the target take it once for the main attack, once for the "plus 1d6 lightning damage", and a third time if the target takes damage from an attack?
    In general, this is one of the issues about 4e is that the developers are inconsistent about calling essentially extra damage extra damage. There are two points of view:
    The entire damage roll is a single damage roll. Only when damage effects are either from a separate attack or on a separate effect line are they an additional damage roll.

    Each call out of +X dice that is not explicitly called extra damage is its own damage roll.

    ----

    I'd go the 1st route always. Then you do +5 damage for the one damage roll as bonuses never apply to extra damage. If your DM goes the other route, then +10 total(+5 for the 1W and +5 for the 1d6), but I think that gets ridiculously stupid in some obvious ways(such as some options adding an additional damage roll to damage rolls for infinite damage...)

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q 46

    If I have the Vilhon Wilds background ("You can reroll any Dungeoneering check, but you must keep the second result, even if it is worse.") and I'm a 5th level Ooze Master ("When you make a Dungeoneering check, you can roll twice and use either result.") ...

    Can I roll Dungeoneering twice, decide that I don't like the result, and roll one more time? Or, heck, roll two more times and take the better of those two?

    I still haven't bought myself the Rules Compendium, so I don't know what the latest wording is for powers that involve multiple rolls for one result.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q47 If you have a power that deals multiple damage instances on a single attack roll/hit (e.g. Thundering Howl) and you roll a critical hit, does the extra damage from the crit get applied to each damage instance?

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    Q47 If you have a power that deals multiple damage instances on a single attack roll/hit (e.g. Thundering Howl) and you roll a critical hit, does the extra damage from the crit get applied to each damage instance?
    Only if they're part of the damage roll of the attack roll. If they're outside the attack roll(such as Thundering Howl is), they don't.

    "Maximum Damage: When an attack scores a critical hit against a target, the target takes the maximum damage possible from the attack. "

    Where in this case, attack has to refer to 'attack roll'(because otherwise lots of things break)

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    What type of action is required to switch a Versatile weapon from one-handed to two-handed (or vice-versa)?

    No action? Free action? Minor action?

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