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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiadoppler View Post
    What type of action is required to switch a Versatile weapon from one-handed to two-handed (or vice-versa)?

    No action? Free action? Minor action?
    Free. So do at will, but DM can say enough.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q 48.
    In the almost opposite of 47, how do crits work for area attacks? Those only have one damage roll, but multiple attack rolls. So does the damage increase for all of them if I critically hit at least one of them?
    Last edited by Necroticplague; 2017-02-02 at 09:09 PM.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticplague View Post
    Q 48.
    In the almost opposite of 47, how do crits work for area attacks? Those only have one damage roll, but multiple attack rolls. So does the damage increase for all of them if I critically hit at least one of them?
    Nope. You roll for the same damage to be applied to all others hit by the attack, and the enemy critted receives the full crit damage, without a roll.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q49

    Character A says something true. Character B doesn't trust that character A is telling the truth. Character B rolls Insight. What does character A roll? (It's not Bluff, because they're not lying.)

    In the past, after fumbling around to try to suddenly think up a solution mid-game, I've had it be a Diplomacy roll, with the Diplomacy result assisting the Insight roll against a static DC. (DC is looked up from DC by level chart on the back of the DM screen. Difficulty is chosen based on how outlandish the initial statement is, rounding down.)
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Thajocoth View Post
    Q49

    Character A says something true. Character B doesn't trust that character A is telling the truth. Character B rolls Insight. What does character A roll? (It's not Bluff, because they're not lying.)
    Are Characters A & B both Player characters, which is what your questions implies? 4E isn't designed for Player v Player interactions in this way.

    If "Character A" is an NPC, I wouldn't have her roll at all; instead, set the DC to a level-appropriate mark, either medium or hard at your discretion. Depending on the result against this static DC, your description may be:

    "Though at first you doubt her, you see the truth in Character A's claim because of [insert believable but spurious and misleading fact here]" (Player B fails the check by 5 or more),

    "Character A is adamant in her claim" (failed check by Player B),

    "Character A's claim seems dubious, at best, but she seems to believe it to be so" (successful check by Player B), or

    "Character A seems to believe her claim, but you know it do be untrue because of [insert useful infomation here]" (character B exceeds successful check by 5 or more).
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by darkbard View Post
    Are Characters A & B both Player characters, which is what your questions implies? 4E isn't designed for Player v Player interactions in this way.

    If "Character A" is an NPC, I wouldn't have her roll at all; instead, set the DC to a level-appropriate mark, either medium or hard at your discretion. Depending on the result against this static DC, your description may be:

    "Though at first you doubt her, you see the truth in Character A's claim because of [insert believable but spurious and misleading fact here]" (Player B fails the check by 5 or more),

    "Character A is adamant in her claim" (failed check by Player B),

    "Character A's claim seems dubious, at best, but she seems to believe it to be so" (successful check by Player B), or

    "Character A seems to believe her claim, but you know it do be untrue because of [insert useful infomation here]" (character B exceeds successful check by 5 or more).
    Character B being a player and A being an NPC is the usual case for this happening, and when it has happened it's always caught me off guard.

    The reverse is something that I feel could occur in, perhaps, a skill challenge or something... But I haven't actually seen it occur.

    If a player wants to roll a die against another player, I rule that the other player is the DM for that roll. Basically "It's between you two, so it's your problem to figure out." This hasn't happened in any of my games though, luckily. Players getting along with one another is a good thing. So no, both being players is not in the question.

    And if they're both NPCs, then why am I rolling at the table? (Hey, who wants to watch a puppet show that doesn't involve your characters?)

    -----

    Generally, when it's happened, I've always had an internal reaction of "Huh? Why would you find that not to be believable? Are you rolling just because you want to throw in a D20 roll?", followed by "Well, if I don't roll anything and just say "You believe they're telling the truth", the player isn't likely to feel like that's fun."

    Statements on the level of: "Some of the town guards like to stop at the inn for a drink after their shift."

    Like... Why are you even rolling insight on that?

    So having a mechanics-level response ready for the roll will allow me to put more of my brain into "What does the player actually need right now? What's not being fun enough?"

    -----

    So your suggestion is basically to take out the diplomacy roll that I was having assist that insight against the DC. I really only threw that in there so the player didn't get their answer before the result comes, because if it IS a lie, then A rolls bluff, so not hearing a die hit the table behind the screen would give a meta-answer... But really, that's fine since it's almost always stuff the player shouldn't really need to roll insight on... So that makes sense. Thanks.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    A successful Intuiton roll will tell the player the NPC isn't lying and a pointless d20 roll will obscure the detail that the other person isn't bluffing.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q 50

    In Heroic tier, are there any ways of preventing OAs for ranged attacks by a character beyond Staff or Mighty Crusader Expertise or Shadowdance armor? I've been playing around with the Cavalier|Warlock build I posted and am reconsidering Avernian Knight as a PP in favor of Questing Knight. In any event, I would like to make Hellish Rebuke a possibility for this character without getting smacked by OAs by all the enemies with which he will be surrounded as a group's defender.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    A 50

    Shimmering armor, available 1 level before shadowdance. You can be OA-free for at least one attack per encounter with a rod of time distortion or a z'tal/serpent familiar. I suppose Sling Expertise, Drow Fighting Style or Thri-Kreen Shooter/Thrower counts too, if you can get the appropriate weapon type to be an implement for you.

    That's all I see that's even close to reasonable. The halfling feat Nimble Spellcaster only works for area attacks, armor of night is paragon tier, and the belled branch symbol only works for divine powers.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Yes, thanks, but Shimmering armor (cloth only) isn't going to work on this plate-wearing, shield-using Cavalier hybrid. Really, the only thing I found that's remotely possible is using Razordark Bracers (L11 Common item), which is really only available from level 7 (L+4 per DMG parcel system) or possibly level 6 if the character were to save all found cash-equivalent loot from first level on for purchasing it.

    But I appreciate your efforts. Realistically, I think Hellish Rebuke will thus only come into play at low levels when the character wins initiative and as an opening attack before moving into Defender position.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    A50

    Quote Originally Posted by darkbard View Post
    Yes, thanks, but Shimmering armor (cloth only) isn't going to work on this plate-wearing, shield-using Cavalier hybrid. Really, the only thing I found that's remotely possible is using Razordark Bracers (L11 Common item), which is really only available from level 7 (L+4 per DMG parcel system) or possibly level 6 if the character were to save all found cash-equivalent loot from first level on for purchasing it.

    But I appreciate your efforts. Realistically, I think Hellish Rebuke will thus only come into play at low levels when the character wins initiative and as an opening attack before moving into Defender position.
    I'd note three things:
    +1 Aversion Staff is essentially a Heavy Shield as long as you've got a target cursed, in your aura, or marked. Which is essentially your issue. i.e. Staff Expertise can work for you provided you get proficiency, somehow...

    At 2nd level, you can use Call of Challenge to Divine Sanction. So you shift away from targets, Divine Sanction a bunch of them, and then Hellish Rebuke.

    I think at some point I said I'd liked human for the race choice? This is one of the reasons - makes this more practical and immediately useful - you can get Hybrid Armor, proficiency with Staff, and Staff Expertise by 2nd level.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    What's the point of elite monsters? Couldn't you just add higher level monsters?

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by hencook View Post
    What's the point of elite monsters? Couldn't you just add higher level monsters?
    There's a big difference in the way the math works between levels as opposed to between roles (minion, standard, elite, solo). Throw too high a level monster at the party, and they will never be able to score a hit against its defenses, for example. Or it may hit them with every attack, rather than half its attacks. Etc.
    Last edited by darkbard; 2017-03-19 at 07:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by hencook View Post
    What's the point of elite monsters? Couldn't you just add higher level monsters?
    They're how to make a 'Big Bad Evil Guy' feel impressive, without it being represented by the PCs mostly missing. Which ends up being frustrating.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by hencook View Post
    What's the point of elite monsters? Couldn't you just add higher level monsters?
    Because a higher level monster doesn't generate as engaging an encounter that feels like "a really tough foe".

    Higher level, beyond the first few levels, in 4e mostly grants nastier status effects, a +1 to hit per level and a +1 to all defences per level. The rate at which damage per hit and HP scale ends up being less important.

    Take a tough monster, 2 levels above the party. Your chance to hit is roughly 50%, and its chance to hit you is roughly 50%.

    The XP value of a level+6 monster (a monster 6 levels above the party) is roughly twice that of the level+2 monster. If you are level 20, the level+6 monster has 16% more HP and deals about 16% more damage than the level+2 monster per hit. It hits your party 70% of the time, and you hit it 30% of the time.

    Most of its "toughness" comes from "miss miss miss miss". Its hits don't feel super hard, even if they are very reliable.

    In comparison, an elite level +2 monster might hit 1.5 times harder and target 2 of you. Instead of 4 higher AC, it has twice the HP -- so you still hit it 50% of the time, but it takes twice as many hits to defeat it. Instead of your control effects missing a lot, it has abilities that mitigate control effects and shrug them off after a bit of harm.

    It is a monster tailored to be a large part of an encounter for level 22ish foes, instead of a monster designed to be a small part of an encounter for level 26ish foes.

    Solo monsters are worse; a level 30 normal monster against level 20 characters is hit 10% of the time and hits you 90% of the time, but only has about 32% more HP and deals 32% more damage than the level 22 monster. The fight is a wiff-fest.

    And that one monster isn't doing a whole pile of things to interact with all of the players. In a normal fight, with roughly equal numbers of foes, there is lots of complex state to interact with; a single high level monster is *boring* even if it was hard to defeat in comparison.

    In short, much of what makes higher level monsters exponentially harder in 4e is in their ATK/DEF bonus, and that breaks down beyond a +/- 4 level range of PCs. To patch this they needed minions/elites/solos.

    Even if that wasn't needed, both difficulty *and complexity* need to be managed. If you have 30 foes, they need to be simple for the DM to run them. If you have 1 foe, it can be exceedingly complex and the DM won't be bogged down. Solo monsters can have very complex mechanics to make interesting fights; elites can have somewhat complex mechanics. Normal monsters have to be simple enough that the DM can juggle 5 of them. Minions must be extremely stateless, so the DM can smoothly run 30 of them at once.

    In an encounter, there are two axis; complexity and difficulty. For a well designed encounter, both must be at reasonable levels for the party and the DM. Level in 4e mostly scales difficulty; solo/elite/normal/minion scales both difficulty and complexity, as does number of foes.

    Having both available is one of the reasons why it is so easy (assuming well designed 4e monsters) to throw together enjoyable tactical combats in 4e.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q51 Weird question that, for some reason, never came up for me before.

    If you have a power that does multiple melee attacks- say, for example, Brutal Barrage- can you use a weapon in one hand for one attack and a weapon in the other hand for another? I'm not talking about getting extra attacks- just whether you could make the three attacks with different weapons.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by masteraleph View Post
    Q51 Weird question that, for some reason, never came up for me before.

    If you have a power that does multiple melee attacks- say, for example, Brutal Barrage- can you use a weapon in one hand for one attack and a weapon in the other hand for another? I'm not talking about getting extra attacks- just whether you could make the three attacks with different weapons.
    A51 According to the Compendium:

    Attack: Constitution vs. AC. Make the attack three times.

    Hit: Constitution modifier damage.

    That means that there is no weapon attack involved. Just the fact that you use the weapon in character doesn't mean that you do the weapon's damage. My guess for describing this would be saying you use the flat edge of the blade. If you just mean in general, I would say no, because it says "make the attack three times".
    Last edited by dadada; 2017-04-10 at 08:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    A. 51

    Brutal Barrage has the Weapon keyword and its range is Melee Weapon, so there is definitively a weapon involved with the attack.

    Best I can tell, the RAW is ambiguous regarding the question, thanks to the ambiguity between "Attack" meaning an Attack Power vs. "Attack" meaning an Attack Roll. Some relevant text:

    A one-handed weapon is light enough or balanced enough to wield in one hand. A creature can carry a one-handed weapon in each hand, but doing so does not let the creature make extra attacks in a round. The creature must choose which of the weapons it is wielding when it makes a weapon attack. If a weapon attack power allows the use of two weapons, one of the weapons must have the off-hand property.
    Attack: An attack roll and its effects, including any damage rolls. The word “attack” is sometimes used as shorthand for “attack power.” Some attack powers include multiple attacks, and some powers, such as magic missile, are designated as attacks yet lack attack rolls (using such a power counts as making an attack if the power has a target).
    An off-hand weapon is light enough that the attacker can hold it and attack effectively with it while also holding a weapon in his or her main hand. An adventurer can't attack with both weapons in the same turn, unless he or she has a power that allows such an attack, but he or she can attack with either weapon.
    I believe the spirit of the rules is that you can't switch which weapon you're using mid-power unless the power explicitly allows it, but the letter of the rules doesn't actually forbid you from doing so.

    Unless someone has some specific text I overlooked which definitively clarifies this, any further discussion should probably be moved to its own thread.
    Last edited by tiornys; 2017-04-10 at 09:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q52 If a creature that has resistance to a damage type gains vulnerability to that damage type, does it count as having both resistance and vulnerability, or just one or the other? So, for example, if a monster with resist 10 cold was hit by somebody using frostcheese, would they get combat advantage?

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilphon View Post
    Q52 If a creature that has resistance to a damage type gains vulnerability to that damage type, does it count as having both resistance and vulnerability, or just one or the other? So, for example, if a monster with resist 10 cold was hit by somebody using frostcheese, would they get combat advantage?
    A52 They both apply. See page 224 in the Rules Compendium.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q53: A character must have at least one of each type of power of its class(es) (AW, E, D, U) when possible, correct? This comes up most often for hybridized characters. My question: Does this mean that a non-hybridized character cannot take a Skill Utility power or Theme power until level 6? And a hybridized character cannot take a Skill Utility power or Theme Utility power until level 10?
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    A 53

    Short answer, no. Long answer, make a thread, because there's a lot to unpack here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    I'm not sure this requires its own thread, but I'll start one anyway....
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q54

    How does one resolve the to-hit rolls of powers that generate more than one attack roll against a variable number of enemies?

    Should all of the targets be declared at start and dice rolled at once? Does a player get to declare targets and roll one die at a time, giving him/her the chance to move on to a new target if the first has been killed?
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    A 53

    Short answer, no. Long answer, make a thread, because there's a lot to unpack here.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Q55



    If the triggering attack is a Close Burst, is its origin where the attacker was when using the power or where he is after the swap?
    Last edited by Marcloure; 2017-06-03 at 12:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcloure View Post
    If the triggering attack is a Close Burst, is its origin where the attacker was when using the power or where he is after the swap?
    The former. When a power is interrupted, you cannot change any choices or parameters of the interrupted power; that's basically the point of having interrupts. So yes, the enemy ends up in the area of his own attack.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    The former. When a power is interrupted, you cannot change any choices or parameters of the interrupted power; that's basically the point of having interrupts. So yes, the enemy ends up in the area of his own attack.
    Keep in mind that this is only dangerous for the attacker if the power they used has the entry that states "Target: All creatures in the burst/blast". If it says "enemies" or even a specific number (since you can always opt for *fewer* if a specific number is mentioned), swapping positions with the target wouldn't make them get hit by the power because, in the first case, they're not a legal target and, in the second case, they probably won't *choose* to target themself.
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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePurple View Post
    Keep in mind that this is only dangerous for the attacker if the power they used has the entry that states "Target: All creatures in the burst/blast". If it says "enemies" or even a specific number (since you can always opt for *fewer* if a specific number is mentioned), swapping positions with the target wouldn't make them get hit by the power because, in the first case, they're not a legal target and, in the second case, they probably won't *choose* to target themself.
    Actually this will almost never be dangerous for the attacker in the case of a Close Burst attack, regardless of targeting. PHB p. 272: "Unless a power description notes otherwise, a close burst you create does not affect you."
    Last edited by tiornys; 2017-06-03 at 11:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread 3

    Can I get some insight on Q54?
    Last edited by Meta; 2017-06-04 at 10:28 AM.
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