Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

[Flickerdart]

I liked the Mythbusters take on implausible myths. They test it, it doesn't seem probable. But is it possible if you use enough C4?

Perhaps this sort of matchup is best handled in this way. How far would Character 1 need to go to beat Character 2 - and are they capable of going that far? If not, what's the best version of Character 2 that they could beat?

[Prime32]

Renamon is pretty strong for a Rookie, capable of taking out weaker Champion-level Digimon unaided. However, Lucario seems like the more skilled fighter.

With Rika's DigiModify cards, Renamon has a pretty broad range of abilities... but including Rika means she gets to evolve to stronger forms. Like in Charizard vs Greymon, even a Legendary or Mega Evolved Pokémon is going to struggle against a Digimon that's evolved that more than once (and she can do it three times).

On the other hand, there are Pokémon media where Mega Evolution doesn't require a trainer, so it's fairly easy to justify Lucario having its strongest abilities.

[HolyDraconus]

They did this matchup before and it was a draw back then. So I'm betting it's gonna be a friendship finish instead. Otherwise Renamon stomps. I can't even say that lucario is more skilled since its been shown that Renamon can punch above her weight fairly consistently and without a tamer. She would of been the outright strongest of the protags in that season if it wasn't for the fact that guilmon literally had hacked abilities.

[Lord Raziere]

Hm....Renamon Vs. Lucario....

depends on if you use Aura cheese.

Cause if you cheese Aura, you can basically start learning any pokemon move by replicating it with aura. Aura is an energy all humans and pokemon emit. An energy that all of them use. Different colors of aura mean different abilities, which explains typings. So if you figure out how aura works, you can basically do any pokemon move EVER. Even certain humans could probably do this. So it all depends on whether Lucario can tap into the limitless power of Aura to start throwing any move they need at them, or is just another more "normal" user of Aura (Lucario isn't even the only user of Aura to- Medicham has been said to see or sense Aura as well, implying that it has potential to become an Aura user.) While the move Aura Sphere is not actually a Lucario-exclusive move. The other pokemon that can wield use it are:
Mewtwo (the clone of one of the most powerful pokemon to ever exist)
Mew (the pokemon who has the DNA of all pokemon and can turn into any pokemon like Ditto, as well as learn any possible TM move. Ditto themselves is implied to be another failed clone of Mew.)
Togekiss
Dialga (God of Time)
Palkia (God of Space)
Giratina (God of Anti-Matter)
Mienfoo
Mienshao (it and Mienfoo being two badass martial artists themselves)
Clawitzer
Magearna (A legendary who is Fairy/Steel and is a mechanical doll)
Squirtle line (but only through breeding)

So yeah, two other martial artist themed pokemon can also tap into Aura at least enough to do the Aura Sphere attack, while six legendaries can manipulate Aura enough for it to be an attack as well, including the probable original mother of all pokemon Mew who might possibly know all moves ever, which might've been achieved through Mew cheesing her aura abilities so that she can learn so many moves.

Of course this is all theory derived from implied stuff and not really stated canon, so DB is probably to just take what they see and such and not really use Aura cheese, so Lucario's probably gonna lose.

[SKarious]

I'm pretty sure you can't cheese Aura energy like that. There's a big difference between perception, limited manipulation and total control. Lucario is shown to use Aura for detection and some energy-based attacks, but is pretty limited in the type of moves it can learn.

How about typings, though? Which pokemon type(s) would you give to Renamon and her evolution?
Lucario is steel/fighting type, which might makes him resistant to Renamon's signature grass attack, and makes psychic attacks do normal damage.
On the other hand, he takes increased damage from fighting and fire attacks so that could be troublesome. I'm pretty sure Renamon has some of those.

Also, as I've not followed digimon, assuming that's Renamon from the show, what's her fighting style? Stealth? Overwhelming force? Multi-hit combo attacks?
(The latter could activate Lucario's abilities, making him more formidable.)

[Yuki Akuma]

Renamon's primary attack would probably count as Grass-type, honestly. Kyuubimon's would be Fire- or Ghost-type, though. Taomon's attacks would be... I dunno, Psychic? Fairy? Ghost? None of which are very good against Fighting/Steel Lucario.

Renamon's secondary attacks are all probably-Fighting-or-Normal-type so, honestly, if going by Pokemon mechanics she'd be at a disadvantage from the get go.

Of course, Digimon's power scale is on a whole other level to Pokemon's, so if she gets a chance to evolve Lucario's probably screwed.

[Rynjin]

First off: Not sure how a rain of glass or crystal shards is considered Grass type. Rock or Ground, maybe, but not Grass.

Of course, Digimon uses an entirely different (and simpler) typing system so the point is moot anyway.

[Yuki Akuma]

First off: Not sure how a rain of glass or crystal shards is considered Grass type. Rock or Ground, maybe, but not Grass.

It's called "Fox Leaf Arrowhead".

[Rynjin]

I've only seen the dub (it's a good dub). There, at least, it's "Diamond Storm".

[Yuki Akuma]

I've only seen the dub (it's a good dub). There, at least, it's "Diamond Storm".

The Digimon Tamers dub is the best Digimon dub. It's fairly great.

But I am a massive weeb.

[Prime32]

I've only seen the dub (it's a good dub). There, at least, it's "Diamond Storm".

Digimon dubs delete most references that the target audience are unlikely to understand. Or sometimes they use the same name for multiple attacks or vice versa. Occasionally the new names are downright baffling, like "Cocyutus Breath" (a stream of freezing energy from the mouth, first used to attack a Digimon based on Satan) being renamed "Metal Wolf Claw".

[Yuki Akuma]

Digimon dubs delete most references that the target audience are unlikely to understand. Or sometimes they use the same name for multiple attacks or vice versa. Occasionally the new names are downright baffling, like "Cocyutus Breath" (a stream of freezing energy from the mouth, first used to attack a Digimon based on Satan) being renamed "Metal Wolf Claw".

I still prefer "Gatomon" to "Tailmon" though.

Although I wish it was "Gatamon".

"Myotismon" is better than "Vamdemon", too.

[Ravian]

I still prefer "Gatomon" to "Tailmon" though.

Although I wish it was "Gatamon".

"Myotismon" is better than "Vamdemon", too.

I suppose they felt kids wouldn't know that Myotis is a scientific name for bat.

It does still kind of confuse me that they went the the effort of using the scientific name for a type of bats, but didn't actually use the name for vampire bats. (myotis are Mouse-eared bats.) Particularly since their name "Desmodus" already makes for a very sinister digimon name.

Maybe they thought it would sound too similar to Devimon?

[Yuki Akuma]

I suppose they felt kids wouldn't know that Myotis is a scientific name for bat.

It does still kind of confuse me that they went the the effort of using the scientific name for a type of bats, but didn't actually use the name for vampire bats. (myotis are Mouse-eared bats.) Particularly since their name "Desmodus" already makes for a very sinister digimon name.

Maybe they thought it would sound too similar to Devimon?

I'm pretty sure the reason the dub changed his name from the original "Vamdemon" to "Myotismon" is that they didn't want to have the word "demon" in a kids' show. See also "Demon" changed to "Deamon" (and pronounced "de-a-mon").

The dub name is obviously someone being clever but not clever enough.

[Delicious Taffy]

Digimon dubs delete most references that the target audience are unlikely to understand. Or sometimes they use the same name for multiple attacks or vice versa. Occasionally the new names are downright baffling, like "Cocyutus Breath" (a stream of freezing energy from the mouth, first used to attack a Digimon based on Satan) being renamed "Metal Wolf Claw".

I mean, the Wikipedia article you've linked to outright states "Cocytus is referred to as a frozen lake", then goes on to say "victims are buried in ice to a varying degree", as well as "Dante's Satan is at the center of the circle buried waist-high in ice." I think it's safe to say that Cocytus is associated with ice and cold, and it fits that it would be used on a Digimon based on Satan. Either the dub team wasn't familiar with the reference, or they somehow think ice is metal and breath attacks involve claws. Maybe even a mix of both, since "Ice Breath" was basically gift-wrapped for them to use.

[Ravian]

I'm pretty sure the reason the dub changed his name from the original "Vamdemon" to "Myotismon" is that they didn't want to have the word "demon" in a kids' show. See also "Demon" changed to "Deamon" (and pronounced "de-a-mon").

The dub name is obviously someone being clever but not clever enough.

Whoops, I got the two confused. The original Digimon adventures came out when I was still pretty young and I haven't rewatched it for a while now. Digimon Tamers was my prime childhood nostalgia.

(Unfortunately Digimon Frontier turned me off the franchise so soon afterwards. Dangit Digimon you were supposed to be wish fullfillment to have a cool monster friend (that was more intelligent than a Pokemon) not just another generic superpowered wish fulfillment story.)

Still, weird that they didn't change the name of the digimon literally named after the devil itself, but just because one based after vampires (which generally aren't nearly as controversial as far as monsters go) who, almost by coincidence, also has demon in its name they have to invent a new name altogether.

[SKarious]

Welp. Renamon trailer is up, as Lucario's chances are dropping.
Seems Renamon is a serious, focused combatant who strikes quickly. I'm not sure if Lucario's defence can stand up to all those Fighting-type moves.
Not to mention Renamon's secret weapon - ghost-fire. Seems like a the pokemon move Will-o-wisp to me: A ghostly fire that burns opponents, causing fire damage and weakening their physical attacks. If Lucario gets hit by that - he's done.

[Traab]

On the other hand, they didnt seem to have covered digivolution as a thing that will happen here. So at least she will stay renamon and not go through all the stages.

[Yuki Akuma]

On the other hand, they didnt seem to have covered digivolution as a thing that will happen here. So at least she will stay renamon and not go through all the stages.

They did mention evolution, as well as showing off her Adult/Champion stage (although without actually name-dropping it).

[Kato]

I hate using the meta argument but... seeing how Wargreymon crushed Charizard, we'll probably see a fight that ends with Luci winning. I guess they'll exclude every trainer support and limit themselves to the show? That makes Renamon still powerful but I guess not up to his opponent's power.


You know what I would look forward to? A proper battle of wits. Put two normal smart people against each other and see how that ends..

[Flickerdart]

You know what I would look forward to? A proper battle of wits. Put two normal smart people against each other and see how that ends..

Meaningless in the format of Death Battle. Intelligence is not properly measured by numerical feats, unless you want to make it "this guy has an IQ of seventy bajillion, but this other guy has an IQ of ninety squillion kajillion."

[Rynjin]

Doesn't stop me from wanting to see some weird Death Battle like Kaiji vs Yugi Moto or something.

Wonder if Yami is good at E-Card?

[SKarious]

Meta-argument: I'm not sure it's useful. we did have Goku vs. Superman, which ended the same way twice.

Battle of wits: Now that would be interesting, but could take a longer episode. The closest we could get was probably Snake vs. Fisher, where the battle was mainly decided by taking out the other's support and batlefield experience.

[Lord Raziere]

Episode up. Predicting it now: Lucario loses

Spoiler: Lucario Vs. Renamon

Show

No tamers or trainers or unnatural forms allowed this time,. huh.

aaaaand Lucario wins! what.

so apparently they said that Lucario could simply hit harder and had a wider arsenal while Lucario could predict her moves.....kay?

[Traab]

Not too surprised.

Spoiler

Show

Once they mentioned the glass canon aspect and lack of ability to boost her defenses I knew how it would end. It wasnt a stomp, but renamon just didnt have the endurance to outlast what lucario could do to him. Had trainers been involved it would have been an utter stomp fest as digimon in that version get tons of boosters in addition to their evolutions.

I honestly dont care about the upcoming fight. I only recognize one of them and was never a big fan of his anyways.

[McNum]

Spoiler: Lucario vs. Renamon

Show

Eh... okay. Go Lucario, I guess. Can we maybe have a Pokémon or a Digimon fight someone else next time? Not really feeling these matches. The opponents were almost too similar here.

Spoiler: Next Time...

Show

I know Balrog. Who's the other guy? I'm predicting Balrog loses. Because Balrog. He may fight dirty, but he's a one trick pony. He hits really hard, but his technique is... lacking.

[digiman619]

Spoiler: Renamon vs Lucario

Show

To me, this is reminicent of of the Batman vs Spider-Man fight. The limitations the match set tied one of the combatnat's arms behind their back. At least in the Batman v Spider-Man match they had the decency to admit that if they had time to prepare (which is one of Batman's 3 strengths, the other two being stealth and theatrics, both of which are useless against Spidey Sense), it'd have gone the other way around.

As for the next one? I have no dog on that fight, so whatever.

[Mystic Muse]

How about Balrog versus THE Balrog? (Durin's Bane specifically.)

[Ravian]

Can't say I'm not disappointed by the result but I do get it.

Spoiler: Lucario v Renamon

Show

Once I saw that Lucario can take high power Fire Attacks and survive I realized that Renamon's Power Paw wasn't going to be the edge I thought it was. Between that and having him take on Legendary Pokemon I could see that this might not turn out well for Renamon.

It's kind of the power of marketing though. Digimon may eventually eclipse Pokemon, but low tier Digimon (where Rookies are still doing stuff) are still around the same scale as higher tier Pokemon.

The whole point of a Digimon like Renamon is to present a competent force to start with before eventually showing that they need to rise to greater heights through Digievolution. Meanwhile Lucario's essentially a series mascot like Pikachu and Charizard at this point, they gave him his own movies and let him essentially be an action hero in the series.
For him, Mega-evolution isn't so much for the sake of the plot as it is for the marketing, since it was kind of hurting Lucario's relevance as a mascot if he was being so consistently outpaced by newer Pokemon.

In essence, both series kind of started with the same premise, "This character is awesome." Digimon just followed it up with "But they have room to be more awesome." while Pokemon followed it up with "And we need to justify that awesomeness in-game."

[Rynjin]

Based on everything in the video, I can see the outcome. It's basically what I said in my first post on the fight. As close as it was though, three nitpicks I have that might have changed the outcome niggle at me:

1.) Lucario arguably would not be able to sense Renamon using Aura. Digimon are not living creatures in the same way, being literal data given physical form. I don't know if this played into the fight, but probably wouldn't have mattered either way. Main nitpick here: Renamon left a corpse; She should have burst into data fragments. =)

2.) Giving Lucario access to more than four moves. Even in the anime I don't think any given Pokemon is shown knowing more than four moves at any one time. This WOULD have made a difference, since his flexibility and access to both offense moves and buffs/healing was named as a major factor in his victory.

3.) The biggest one here. Renamon being called a glass cannon. I can see how that mistake would have easily been made, she's shown being heavily damaged a lot, often by single attacks...but the vast majority of the time these beatdowns are delivered by Champion and/or Armor or even ULTIMATE level Digimon. A Rookie being able to take attacks from an Ultimate is pretty damn tanky. As tanky as a Steel type? Maybe not. Glass cannon? Nah.

Other than that I was satisfied with the path to the outcome, though the battle seemed really lazily made.