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  1. - Top - End - #1291
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Two in a row that aren't obvious at least. So if anything else, these ones are interesting.

    My money is on Ichigo. I also dropped the series because it was getting too stupid, and I technically made it further into Naruto until dropping that one as well.

    Naruto has a lot of different tricks, and they can be quite powerful. Ichigo has one trick, but he's really good at it.

    But on the basis that I think Bleach ends up in a much dumber place then Naruto, that Ichigo will have the edge.
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I dropped Bleach after the Fullbringer arc (I stand by that being one of the best arcs after the first one no matter what people say, up until the end completely undoes all the consequences of both that AND the previous arc), but I did finish Naruto.

    Naruto is a literal demigod by the end of the series, and has some pretty solid raw power, landscape changing attacks, etc. If nothing else he has Ichigo beat on VERSATILITY if nothing else. Naruto is a really ****ty ninja in regards to that but he still has 4-5 really solid attacks (and more in Bort from what I've seen, he seems to take advantage of his demigod status making chakra nature affinity meaningless for him, but I haven't been keeping up with it) where Ichigo has...one. One single attack.

    Ichigo's big finisher also has the downside of being an explosion, and we all know those are meaningless in anime. Naruto's finisher (Rasenshuriken and bigger variations) is a weirdly sophisticated move for being designed and developed by such a dumbass, creating an AoE that is essentially billions of microscopic knives carving into you at the cellular level, so I think he wins on attack effectiveness (if not raw power) as well. On the flipside Ichigo may not HAVE cells, his main combat mode being a ghost, but he does BLEED in that form, so iunno.

    Naruto ends up with the better waifu, so he wins the moral victory as well.

    More seriously, I dunno how the fight is gonna play out. If it were on the merits of which series is better, I'd give it to Naruto (its lowest lows are about as good as some of Bleach's high notes), but this is about who's better in a fight and Kubo is all about that wish fulfillment bull**** and informed powerups that don't really mean anything, so Ichigo PROBABLY has an edge?
    Didn't ichigo literally had the power at one point to fight God? Plus, thanks to Boruto, Naruto isn't done growing. I would give it to ichigo now, since Naruto still has cap going and isn't in endgame mode, even tho both combatants have warped reality..... huh...
    Last edited by HolyDraconus; 2017-10-18 at 03:11 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #1293
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Two in a row that aren't obvious at least. So if anything else, these ones are interesting.

    My money is on Ichigo. I also dropped the series because it was getting too stupid, and I technically made it further into Naruto until dropping that one as well.

    Naruto has a lot of different tricks, and they can be quite powerful. Ichigo has one trick, but he's really good at it.

    But on the basis that I think Bleach ends up in a much dumber place then Naruto, that Ichigo will have the edge.
    I think the issue is it's way easier to tell the scaling in Naruto than Bleach. By the end of the Save Rukia arc, Ichigo makes a big ol' blast that touches the sky. By the end of where I left off...he makes a big ol's blast that looks the same size as that, but we're told it's stronger.

    In Naruto we see the attacks visibly grow larger, visibly cause more collateral damage, and visibly do more against the villain du jour than the smaller attacks did.

    Ichigo only has one mode as far as "big attack" goes, so it's impossible to tell what's going on in any given panel.
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I think the issue is it's way easier to tell the scaling in Naruto than Bleach. By the end of the Save Rukia arc, Ichigo makes a big ol' blast that touches the sky. By the end of where I left off...he makes a big ol's blast that looks the same size as that, but we're told it's stronger.

    In Naruto we see the attacks visibly grow larger, visibly cause more collateral damage, and visibly do more against the villain du jour than the smaller attacks did.

    Ichigo only has one mode as far as "big attack" goes, so it's impossible to tell what's going on in any given panel.
    That's hilarious. Ichigo has so many forms, so many multipliers and still has 'I swing with sword' as the big attack.

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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Eh, I'm fine with the last result... though I'm sure a lot of people will disagree...


    Next time... gosh, this is going to be another **** show. Never got into Bleach but iirc from people argueing on the internet he can turn intangible to normal attacks so... this is either going to be super boring or some Bleach fans will be very salty...
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    Well then...
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    I'm a little annoyed by the blade thing. Wolverine's claws cut through atoms too and Thor shrugged being stabbed in the back by all six blades after multiple slashes. And they brought up Thor's hammer being broken (thor 3 scenes only for some reason) but claimed WW's lasso is unbreakable. WW & Bizzaro Superman have broken it using their strength before. And sort of like Thor's relationship with Mjolnir if you doubt the truth it reveals or don't accept it the rope becomes destroyed. Under one such instance, WW became a frail old women unable to talk until it was repaired. But, that's Death Battle for you.

    Also calling it, Naruto wins in the next one. Ichigo's power scale is all over the place like Goku and he has that megavolt comment like Goku's weight scene early into the Buu arc and DB will use that to overshadow how while Ichigo was completely out of power his Blut was still so powerful it could block the coupe de grace from the guy that can cut through fifteen million degree atom destroying fire. Plus very few people understand the ending to Bleach, just like DBGT's final scenes. Naruto through, he once had the Sage's floating spheres of annihilation and that guy created a moon.
    Last edited by Mato; 2017-10-18 at 03:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    oh gods, Ichigo Vs. Naruto. they couldn't just leave well enough alone.

    I don't see this turning out well no matter who wins. I can't root for either of them, even if Naruto is technically the better protagonist. and series.

    I mean, whats the reasoning for Naruto winning? he has better tactics and wider variety of skills to use.

    whats the reason for Ichigo winning? he has more power.

    So its a big "greater versatility Vs. greater power" match up. what has death battle done historically for that? I don't remember Ichigo being particularly overwhelmingly more powerful than Naruto, the whole greater force logic needs like no room for doubt to work, or Naruto would win this with the right combination. remember, for greater force to work, it needs to be so overwhelming that Naruto can't adapt or trick around it and for all of Ichigos power I don't see him having something to make sure of that, his one attack while powerful, is also predictable to anyone with a head for tactics and strategy, which Naruto has shown multiple times to be good at.
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    Well then...
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    That stings. Also Boomstick's pun was awful, thus amazing. "He's done Thor!"

    Can't really argue with this one, they're both stupid fast and strong, but Wonder Woman had the stupider feats so she wins. Comics are fun like that.

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    Naruto! Versus! Ichigo!

    Man, I feel sorry for whatever continent that fight will be on. This is going to be hilariously destructive. Any bets on who wins? Not all that into Bleach.
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    Thor was pretty much robbed on this one, and it was obvious how it was going to go the moment you realized Wonder Woman lost her last matchup and he won his. Then again she got kind of robbed against Rogue, Rogue should never have started with Ms. Marvels powers so I suppose it all evens out down the line.
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  9. - Top - End - #1299
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
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    Thor was pretty much robbed on this one, and it was obvious how it was going to go the moment you realized Wonder Woman lost her last matchup and he won his. Then again she got kind of robbed against Rogue, Rogue should never have started with Ms. Marvels powers so I suppose it all evens out down the line.
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    At least they called out how ridiculous having Thor fight Raiden was.
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
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    Thor was pretty much robbed on this one, and it was obvious how it was going to go the moment you realized Wonder Woman lost her last matchup and he won his. Then again she got kind of robbed against Rogue, Rogue should never have started with Ms. Marvels powers so I suppose it all evens out down the line.
    Meh, it still shouldnt have been a fight. Wonder woman can shatter planets with her raw power. Ms marvel style rogue? Not even remotely. Same for combat speed. Her absorption was never instant so it should have ended with one mega punch then wonder woman yawning for a second as she shakes the blood spatter off her knuckles. Anyways, with this fight, it all comes down to the tale of the tape. They judged thor at x strength y speed and z durability, and wonderwoman had her stats so all else being relatively equal, its all about who can shatter the biggest planet and survive said shattering.

    Upcoming battle is going to be awesome, if only for the superman/goku rage it will cause. If it wasnt for the fact that he really REALLY isnt in the same league yet, I would say make it a three way battle between naruto ichigo and luffy just to get all three of the bigger names in anime together. As for the two actually fighting, im actually looking forward to it. Both have landscape shattering backlash attacks, both have utterly absurd speed, both have good long range attacks and durability. Im not entirely caught up on ichigo and his best feats by the end of the series so I dont know if he actually moves beyond mountain destroying attacks or just destroys them with a different set of powers.
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Im not entirely caught up on ichigo and his best feats by the end of the series so I dont know if he actually moves beyond mountain destroying attacks or just destroys them with a different set of powers.
    He really doesn't have any new feats.

    He learned how to call his Hollow Side out and mix a Gran Ray Cero with Getsuga Tensho which was enough to nearly slice Ywach in half, call him a formidable opponent, and say he has no room for error as he activates his godmodding ability. Bankai Ichigo was such a threat his sword needed to be severed immediately. But nothing is really displayed other than his Blut and trying to figure out how fast he can travel down some stairs. There are a lot of other power feats and those scale up Ywach pretty fast since by the end he absorbs all of the Wandenreich.

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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Out of curiosity, how far away from being on par with these two monsters would you people say luffy is right now? I mean, his first mate is already at mountain destroying range, though in his case its a clean cut, not a disintegrating backlash. His powers are more blunt impact than anything else, so we dont have a TON of big explosion feats to work with. His best probably being his final attack on doflamingo and the sheer devastation it caused to dressrosa. Though im sure if we wanted to, we could work with the final cracker launch and determine how much force it would take to project someone that far, that fast, and through that many obstacles.
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Out of curiosity, how far away from being on par with these two monsters would you people say luffy is right now? I mean, his first mate is already at mountain destroying range, though in his case its a clean cut, not a disintegrating backlash. His powers are more blunt impact than anything else, so we dont have a TON of big explosion feats to work with. His best probably being his final attack on doflamingo and the sheer devastation it caused to dressrosa. Though im sure if we wanted to, we could work with the final cracker launch and determine how much force it would take to project someone that far, that fast, and through that many obstacles.
    They're on different scales. One Piece has a somewhat more realistic world. Bullets are fatal to even strong people, for instance.

    While there are some pretty epic feats to work with, Zoro cutting up Pica (who's the size of a large building, not a mountain) is NOT the same as "mountain destroying" in the sense of Naruto literally atomizing a tall mountain from root to stem and leaving a crater underneath.

    Endgame Naruto (and I presume Bleach) is close to lower end DBZ power scale. Naruto and Sasuke working together have (theoretically) the power to create the moon, at least, since that's a feat consistently credited to the Sage of Six Paths and I'd say that's AT LEAST as hard as blowing it up.

    I don't see endgame Luffy ever blowing up a moon. Oda's too good at controlling his power scaling for that.

    As to whether Luffy could take either in a fight, that's a bit of a different story. It COULD be argued that he can output enough force to maim or kill either, but Luffy's never going to have the insane terrain destroying power (hopefully). Oda likes to keep his fights relatively man-to-man with some collateral damage, not on the scale of "Two guys fight and the earth is literally in danger of blowing up in the crossfire".
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2017-10-19 at 12:58 PM.
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Endgame Naruto (and I presume Bleach) is close to lower end DBZ power scale. Naruto and Sasuke working together have (theoretically) the power to create the moon, at least, since that's a feat consistently credited to the Sage of Six Paths and I'd say that's AT LEAST as hard as blowing it up.
    And thats if we're not including Boruto-version Naruto, whose had like near ten years to become even stronger, and can whip out his kyuubi state and control it effortlessly like nothing, and takes on the people that made and planted Kaguya there in the first place, who are aliens and just naturally possess things like the freaking rinnegan, travel across dimensions. Boruto is going to get insane, its just keeping itself on the down to earth low-powered stuff about keeping the peace as long as possible until everything starts going to hell.
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    And thats if we're not including Boruto-version Naruto, whose had like near ten years to become even stronger,
    Actually in the Sharingan arc Naruto fails to dodge a sword and says he's gotten slower because he has been stuck behind a desk. His peak power was at the climax of the fourth ninja war, he hasn't used the Truth Seeking Balls or even the eight elemental Rasenshurikens since then.
    Last edited by Mato; 2017-10-19 at 02:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    Actually in the Sharingan arc Naruto fails to dodge a sword and says he's gotten slower because he has been stuck behind a desk.
    True. I doubt Ichigo got any stronger during his epilogue though.

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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    True. I doubt Ichigo got any stronger during his prologue though.
    I'd agree but I think you mean epilogue.

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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    I mean, ultimately, Ichigo is an impossibly fast swordsman with deep reserves of energy, a superpowered evil side, and beam weapons. Whereas Naruto is an impossibly fast ninja with deep reserves of energy, a superpowered evil side, and ranged weapons, and also an arsenal of other techniques, including a healing factor, illusions (which explicitly work on Shinigami), minion summons, and a really really big transformation. Yeah, they just keep applying templates to Ichigo to bring him up to the next tier, but each template basically just augments what he already does, which is attack things with a sword.

    I assume that this fight is going to be based on each character's peak abilities, not Naruto's present (possibly deteriorated) ability level. And I don't anticipate that ending well for Ichigo.
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    I mean, ultimately, Ichigo is an impossibly fast swordsman with deep reserves of energy, a superpowered evil side, and beam weapons.
    And invisibility, energy sensing, blut-invincibility, a healing factor that works if he dies, soul-based telekinesis, his sword can open gates to other dimensions, and potentially could use reality warping spells and use Sklaverei to rip everything away from Naruto to access a Hollowfied Sage of Six Vollstandigs form since he finally was able to control his reiatsu by the end of the series. But probably more importantly is in Bleachverse, power does explicitly trump techniques and render them worthless. And if you want to say Ichigo has never been shown to learn Kido on screen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Whereas Naruto is an impossibly fast ninja with deep reserves of energy, a superpowered evil side, and ranged weapons, and also an arsenal of other techniques, including a healing factor, illusions (which explicitly work on Shinigami), minion summons, and a really really big transformation.
    Then you probably should not have listed genjutsu, a healing factor, or really anything outside of a more powerful punch ball and clones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Yeah, they just keep applying templates to Ichigo to bring him up to the next tier, but each template basically just augments what he already does, which is attack things with a sword.
    Actually Ichigo has been shown to recognize weaknesses in techniques and exploit them. In the Fullbring arc he tricked someone into realizing his technique's weakness so they left them selves open to his counter-counterattack. Which is a pretty good feat considering he had only been at it for a year or so. Naruto kind of does the same, but he relies on people not knowing which clone is which rather than exploiting his own weaknesses. Except Naruto grew up in a world full of diverse techniques and trained for over a decade to reach that level of skill.

    Ichigo also gains ridiculous amounts of power during a fight which has allowed him to consistently beat opponents that were stronger than him before they started. But Naruto's transformations are extremely short, like Kurama runs out of chakra within eight minutes and Sage Mode barely even lasts for two attacks and has to be independently charged up prior to usage while Naruto can barely use his shadow clones. Naruto is just going to burn his energy up making Ichigo even stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    And I don't anticipate that ending well for Ichigo.
    That's something we can agree on, Ichigo gets decapitated by a Truth ball in a sword shape. It's the perfect amount of injustice to both characters.
    Last edited by Mato; 2017-10-19 at 05:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    feats without context are useless. you can take any feat out of context and claim anything with it, to truly compare them, we need to examine them in context.

    I still maintain that either one winning is bad. because of arguments like Ichigo having hax powers like that, compared to Naruto. because if Ichigo wins, everyone is going to hate it because everyone knows that while yes those Bleach powers happened, they are also bull and kind of stupid so its like who really likes the powers enough to WANT to see someone fight using them.

    while if Naruto wins, the people who argue for such hax bull to win no matter how what despite how illogical the writing is will get angry, and argue for bad writing powers to win no matter what, which just makes more headaches for other people.

    and then there is the fact that Death battle doesn't use power scaling. they for some reason keep to a strict visual interpretation of someone's fighting ability, so if someone says Ichigo is more powerful but Naruto does something more visually impressive while Ichigo doesn't, Death Battle will ignore the informed ability and say that Naruto is actually stronger because of what is shown.

    and then there is the fact that death Battle doesn't subscribe to Shonen stuff like "getting stronger in the middle of battle", nor do they necessarily seem to care about specific rules of a universe or another- this a battle between two people and their abilities, not a battle between two universes rules. Chakra isn't spirit particles after all, so the same rules don't apply either way. I find it highly unlikely that they're going to let Ichigo be intangible to Naruto since that would make for a pretty short and anti-climactic fight and they need to have some sort of meat to it for people to watch it.

    Edit: And thats assuming they don't low-ball Ichigo by using the Soul Society Arc Ichigo or something, because that is probably the one everyone knows about, and you know how Death Battle likes to target the most popular well known version of the character. there is tons of ways they can screw around with this.
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Naruto does something more visually impressive while Ichigo doesn't
    Funny you should mention that because Naruto's greatest feat was back when he was trying to learn how to throw the Rasenshuriken which cut through a mountain smaller than Ichigo's block sword annihilated. Everything else comes from assuming Naruto's super modes make him more powerful because he fighters opponents using more powerful displays of abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    and then there is the fact that Death battle doesn't use power scaling.
    They do. Like in the last episode where they used Quicksilver to calculate Thor's speed or as the title reminds everyone of, part of Toph's scaling was based on what Bumi could do under the premise they both were titled Earthbender masters. Death Battle is consistently inconsistent.

    But people will become angry no matter what, most of the time it has very little to do with who Death Battle claims would win but over how little they know about the characters. Ichigo is a hax character, a Mary Sue designed to be the best without even trying. Naruto is not and even at his peak he still botches the final blow and uses funny tricks like nudity to win. You could draw a line and put Goku on one end and Luffy on the other, Ichigo sits closer to Goku and Naruto sits closer to Luffy, both in terms of the character's power and their author's ability to tell a good story.

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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    Funny you should mention that because Naruto's greatest feat was back when he was trying to learn how to throw the Rasenshuriken which cut through a mountain smaller than Ichigo's block sword annihilated. Everything else comes from assuming Naruto's super modes make him more powerful because he fighters opponents using more powerful displays of abilities.

    They do. Like in the last episode where they used Quicksilver to calculate Thor's speed or as the title reminds everyone of, part of Toph's scaling was based on what Bumi could do under the premise they both were titled Earthbender masters. Death Battle is consistently inconsistent.

    But people will become angry no matter what, most of the time it has very little to do with who Death Battle claims would win but over how little they know about the characters. Ichigo is a hax character, a Mary Sue designed to be the best without even trying. Naruto is not and even at his peak he still botches the final blow and uses funny tricks like nudity to win. You could draw a line and put Goku on one end and Luffy on the other, Ichigo sits closer to Goku and Naruto sits closer to Luffy, both in terms of the character's power and their author's ability to tell a good story.
    Now now, Ichigo may be a Mary Sue, but he does try
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  23. - Top - End - #1313
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    So worst case scenario then: they buy into the mary sue logic again.

    Ichigo will win then, because I think its more logical for Naruto to win. as predicting what Death Battle will do to spite me has produced accurate results before, and if I'm wrong, then I'll get a pleasant surprise.
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  24. - Top - End - #1314
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    They're on different scales. One Piece has a somewhat more realistic world. Bullets are fatal to even strong people, for instance.

    While there are some pretty epic feats to work with, Zoro cutting up Pica (who's the size of a large building, not a mountain) is NOT the same as "mountain destroying" in the sense of Naruto literally atomizing a tall mountain from root to stem and leaving a crater underneath.

    Endgame Naruto (and I presume Bleach) is close to lower end DBZ power scale. Naruto and Sasuke working together have (theoretically) the power to create the moon, at least, since that's a feat consistently credited to the Sage of Six Paths and I'd say that's AT LEAST as hard as blowing it up.

    I don't see endgame Luffy ever blowing up a moon. Oda's too good at controlling his power scaling for that.

    As to whether Luffy could take either in a fight, that's a bit of a different story. It COULD be argued that he can output enough force to maim or kill either, but Luffy's never going to have the insane terrain destroying power (hopefully). Oda likes to keep his fights relatively man-to-man with some collateral damage, not on the scale of "Two guys fight and the earth is literally in danger of blowing up in the crossfire".
    In this scene we see picas foot smashing down into MANY buildings. Seconds later he is utterly towering over another very very big building, it barely comes up to his waist. If by the size of a tall building you mean as tall as the sears tower and as wide as the sears tower laying on its side, maybe. But he is still a solid mass of stone and death battle has already stated they judged that initial slice as more powerful than a hydrogen bomb. Im pretty sure hydrogen bomb level force is end game bleach and naruto tier.
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  25. - Top - End - #1315
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Your problem there is trusting Death Battle math, and pure math in general when talking about the use of pseudo-magic. With Haki in the mix, stone may as well be made of cardboard. It's not increased force, it's (in D&D terms) reducing the hardness of a material (or giving yourself the equivalent of Adamantine's properties or better, potato pohtahtoe and all).

    Pure force is also not really an accurate measure, since I'm pretty sure cutting power and explosive power aren't equivalent. As evidenced by...there not being any sort of explosion or the heat and atomization of material a hydrogen bomb would output.

    I did forget how big Pica was though. Or he just looks smaller on the page.
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  26. - Top - End - #1316
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    There's one thing in Naruto's favor that we do need to remember. Naruto is kind of... crazy. He does things in a fight no one would ever think of. Best example, of course, being when they needed an opening against Kaguya and nothing sane worked... "Reverse Harem Jutsu!" And then naked teenage boys swarmed the immortal goddess, distracting her just long enough for there to be an opening and get a hit in. Naruto thinks of things like that. He is really good at reading people and using that against them. He may be book dumb, but he's kind of a tactical genius, if an unconventional one. Especially if he can use clones transformed into something else. He gets creative with that.

  27. - Top - End - #1317
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    There's one thing in Naruto's favor that we do need to remember. Naruto is kind of... crazy. He does things in a fight no one would ever think of. Best example, of course, being when they needed an opening against Kaguya and nothing sane worked... "Reverse Harem Jutsu!" And then naked teenage boys swarmed the immortal goddess, distracting her just long enough for there to be an opening and get a hit in. Naruto thinks of things like that. He is really good at reading people and using that against them. He may be book dumb, but he's kind of a tactical genius, if an unconventional one. Especially if he can use clones transformed into something else. He gets creative with that.
    This. Ichigo is extremely tactical, in many ways moreso than Naruto. But Naruto is unpredictable, in a big way. When Ichigo fights full out, it's a battle of gods against gods; when Naruto fights full out, he may be incredibly powerful, but (despite having a superpowered evil side and healing factor) he's still fairly mortal, and yet he still manages to fight gods. He's just so bizarre sometimes that he manages to pull a win out, not by overpowering his opponent, but by catching them completely off guard.

    It seems clear that people are able to dispute the power scaling between the two. I'll definitely agree that Ichigo is hax, at least. But, aside from the scene where Ichigo defeated an opponent who could predict his moves by being unpredictable, Ichigo's general style is simply to throw himself at his opponent, depending on his power and toughness to help him survive until he can figure out that opponent's gimmick, and then to exploit it. By contrast, while Naruto's tactic is similar, Naruto has more capacity for the strange, and a willingness to use it. Naruto will not only look for his opponent's weakness; he'll do something bizarre in order to gain an opening, and then exploit that. And in terms of personality, not power, Ichigo can be exploited by Naruto's staple technique. Let's not forget that Ichigo is a shounen protagonist, which means that he has a weakness to lady parts. Per the Bleach Wiki, "Ichigo becomes extremely shy and uncomfortable around nude or immodestly dressed women, a fact both Yoruichi Shihōin and Rangiku Matsumoto have teased him for." That is going to leave him wide open in this fight, and if this turns into a game of rocket tag, Naruto needs only one opening to win.

    Frequently, in these fights, they focus on the thing that's unpredictable or unstoppable, and Naruto excels at the former, specifically.
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  28. - Top - End - #1318
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    There's one thing in Naruto's favor that we do need to remember. Naruto is kind of... crazy. He does things in a fight no one would ever think of. Best example, of course, being when they needed an opening against Kaguya and nothing sane worked... "Reverse Harem Jutsu!" And then naked teenage boys swarmed the immortal goddess, distracting her just long enough for there to be an opening and get a hit in. Naruto thinks of things like that. He is really good at reading people and using that against them. He may be book dumb, but he's kind of a tactical genius, if an unconventional one. Especially if he can use clones transformed into something else. He gets creative with that.
    That's just because of plot armor though. In a real fight doing "lol I'm so dumb and random" type things is a billion times more likely to get you punched in the mouth than it is to get the other guy to lower his guard.

  29. - Top - End - #1319
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Calling it now, Ichigo fails to Harem no Jutsu because he is a prude.
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  30. - Top - End - #1320
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    Default Re: Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Your problem there is trusting Death Battle math, and pure math in general when talking about the use of pseudo-magic. With Haki in the mix, stone may as well be made of cardboard. It's not increased force, it's (in D&D terms) reducing the hardness of a material (or giving yourself the equivalent of Adamantine's properties or better, potato pohtahtoe and all).

    Pure force is also not really an accurate measure, since I'm pretty sure cutting power and explosive power aren't equivalent. As evidenced by...there not being any sort of explosion or the heat and atomization of material a hydrogen bomb would output.

    I did forget how big Pica was though. Or he just looks smaller on the page.
    Of course, you are forgetting this is a Death Battle matchup. So even if you disagree with the numbers, and you are probably entirely correct, those are the ones they would use. As an additional point, yes bullets are lethal in one piece. You know whats lethal in naruto and bleach? Knives and swords.
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