Heroes of the Storm II: Thread. Augmented. Logical Decision

[Gandariel]

Some of those orbs, it was so tragic--like the one where the enemy had just 20ish health left! So close!

#Minglife

The purpose of my Ming build is not actually killing people, anyways.

It's just "overtax the enemy healer, force him to OOM constantly, keep all enemies at half HP so that they are never truly prepared for a teamfight".

Like that one moment on the bottom lane, where they had to burn Ancestral on ETC before engaging into us. (They still somehow massacred us in that fight, but at least I knew I was doing stuff right).

Then again, kills are always nice and people escaping with 20 Health is always annoying ;P

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yeah, I did notice there was a ton of poke going out there. Did a good job starting and sustaining fights, for sure!

[Gray Mage]

Was it just me or where there terrible lag and dc issues today after the update? Couldn't go through a single draft and spent most of a game disconnected.

[Keltest]

Was it just me or where there terrible lag and dc issues today after the update? Couldn't go through a single draft and spent most of a game disconnected.

Seemed fine to me, although I do remember there being an alert of some kind going out.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Was it just me or where there terrible lag and dc issues today after the update? Couldn't go through a single draft and spent most of a game disconnected.

Yeah, they had some authentication server issues today.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Ho-lee smokes. That was an intense game.

Unstable vs. War Dogs

We were able to go into the draft with a solid idea of some of their preferences (the opening Tyrande ban was definitely targeted at one of their players), and probably should've denied more, but so it goes. We got sloppy during some parts, but pulled off some absolutely wonderful plays.

I also need to learn to Sunder better.

[Gandariel]

Will watch when I get a chance.

But can I just say, I absolutely love Auriel?

I never play support and found most of them kind of boring, but Auriel... she's so amazing!

No mana, i can spam everything.

Hitting enemies in the center of her Q is actually rather hard, and it takes a while to complete the quest if you're not good.

Her E is situational but super strong, both as self peel and as combo (and occasionally poke / interrupt)

Her D needs some management as you need to rotate between allies as their CDs rotate

Her R makes for some awesome saves.

And her W has a short cooldown, heals for a ton, and is also dependent on how much you're attacking.

And her damage is also pretty decent! I've had top siege damage without really going out of my way to do it!

I don't think I've ever had so much fun with a support, I'm definitely buying her and ill feel less sad when I'm forced to support in HL :P

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I agree about Auriel! I'm a little sad I don't have the gold for her, because I've had a great time with her on free rotation.

[Gray Mage]

What kind of comp is good on the new maps?

[Frog Dragon]

Don't know about Warhead yet, but on Brexit Holdout, you need the following.

Mild theorycraft warning.

- A strong solo laner. If the enemy team picks Zag and you don't pick a hero who can fight Zag in lane (like Thrall, Rexxar, or Chen), the Zagara will eventually take your walls and wells. Because of the size of the map and the large amount of obstructions in the middle, rotating lanes to help a struggling solo is costly. And if you lose the lane too hard, contesting that beacon will become very difficult for your team.

- Good point contention. This is another reason Rexxar is good, he does this exceptionally well in the sololane. In the 4-man lane, you need heroes that can march on up to a point and stand there while being difficult to remove from that point. Basically this means you benefit from a heavy, sustained frontline. Beacon fights take a long time and you want to get that point. If you outsustain your opponent you can force damage trades on the point between your respective tanks until you eventually win the point. So heroes like Arthas, Kharazim, Brightwing do well.

- A global really helps. If you have a global in your 4-man, you can do the following. Imagine you just won the pokefight, maybe someone spent their well and is really chunked out and has to hearth. Maybe you actually got a kill. Regardless, the end result is that the enemy 4-man won't be taking your beacon anytime soon. If you have the global, you can instantly turn your solo lane into a 2v1 and secure the beacon + a potential kill.

- Some good waveclear. It's a 2-lane map but the swarm has an insane combined healthpool, and the structures are pretty garbage at taking them out (towers and forts tend to focus zerglings and die to guardians and so forth). So if you're up against a big zerg swarm your heroes need to be able to clear them properly. This isn't so much an issue if you win the beacon race, but if you have no good zerg clear even a weaker wave can overwhelm your forts.

Don't pick Xul though, he might be able to clear the zerg but he will never help you win on this map, only lose less.

TL;DR: Pick a solo laner. Draft a 4-man that fight over the point for a long time. Draft enough waveclear to not die to zerg. Draft a global if you can.

[Gandariel]

Not listening to Frog strats is also apparently really helpful. Or so I hear.

[Frog Dragon]

Feel free to chip in with your own ideas if you have them.

[Gandariel]

I've told you so many times! My comp ideas are always genius and perfect. You just don't appreciate them :P

For the record, one of my proposals:

TLV, Zeratul, Falstad, Brightwing, Dehaka
On Blackheart's bay (but others work, too)

TLV gain mad XP and act as bait.

Everyone else combines into a global-ranged, super mobile killing machine.

Viking is far out gaining XP, one or two enemies are coming to kill him? Boom, three globals and suddenly it's free kills for you.

Also Zeratul might be guarding one of the Vikings, but which one?

The only weakness of this build (like any TLV build) is teamfighting, BUT.
1) in Blackheart's bay you don't really have to teamfight to win. You have a lot of great Disengage ults (BW, Falstad, Zeratul).

2) if you want more staying power you can swap Dehaka for a more "normal" solo tank.

Drafting: (another great advantage of this build) the only high priority hero you need is Falstad. Everyone else is almost guaranteed to be easy to pick up.


This works super well on BHB, but also Garden of Terror, and others.

[Keltest]

I've told you so many times! My comp ideas are always genius and perfect. You just don't appreciate them :P

For the record, one of my proposals:

TLV, Zeratul, Falstad, Brightwing, Dehaka
On Blackheart's bay (but others work, too)

TLV gain mad XP and act as bait.

Everyone else combines into a global-ranged, super mobile killing machine.

Viking is far out gaining XP, one or two enemies are coming to kill him? Boom, three globals and suddenly it's free kills for you.

Also Zeratul might be guarding one of the Vikings, but which one?

The only weakness of this build (like any TLV build) is teamfighting, BUT.
1) in Blackheart's bay you don't really have to teamfight to win. You have a lot of great Disengage ults (BW, Falstad, Zeratul).

2) if you want more staying power you can swap Dehaka for a more "normal" solo tank.

Drafting: (another great advantage of this build) the only high priority hero you need is Falstad. Everyone else is almost guaranteed to be easy to pick up.


This works super well on BHB, but also Garden of Terror, and others.

The problem of course is that they'll just bait your global kill squad to the bottom lane, go kill both top Vikings (and Zeratul, if hes there), then steal your wallets and go pay off the pirate to kill you some more with your own money. Pushing is not an important power on BHB, but you absolutely cannot afford to avoid every teamfight.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The problem of course is that they'll just bait your global kill squad to the bottom lane, go kill both top Vikings (and Zeratul, if hes there), then steal your wallets and go pay off the pirate to kill you some more with your own money. Pushing is not an important power on BHB, but you absolutely cannot afford to avoid every teamfight.

Good luck killing the Vikings. A good TLV player can just keep them safely soaking back while the deathball roams--and there's nothing stopping the deathball from just pushing bot.

The real strength of this comp on BHB, though, is that you can completely avoid teamfights while also steamrollering all the camps on the map (including sending Baelog to solo their camps), which is how you win. And if they camp turn-in, you just keep pressing the advantage in-lane, destroying forts and stuff. Camping turn-in on BHB is a losing strat.

The fact is, though, you can definitely afford to avoid the fighting at the initial turn-in. Plus, you'll grab 5 coins early, then you just keep roaming.

[Frog Dragon]

Generally even in very high level play, vikings do die. When you are splitting your attention 3-ways, it is difficult to keep 3 relatively fragile targets alive. Opponents who are familiar with vikings will seek to freeze lane combat and pressure the lane viking out of soak or kill them. Vikings aren't hard to kill.

[Gandariel]

The problem of course is that they'll just bait your global kill squad to the bottom lane, go kill both top Vikings (and Zeratul, if hes there), then steal your wallets and go pay off the pirate to kill you some more with your own money.

Well if they baited my squad on bot I expect to get a kill from that.

They kill mid lane viking, the top lane one has time to escape . And Zeratul is invisible, so he's fine.

One kill for one Viking, and my whole team is pushing bot lane (and reasdy to port back if needed) while the enemies are out of position.

And even if we don't get a kill, who cares. Viking lifes don't matter much, and we still have continuous XP advantage.

Pushing is not an important power on BHB, but you absolutely cannot afford to avoid every teamfight.

Wait what?

BHB is *the* only map in which you can afford to avoid every teamfight and pushing can just win the game on its own.

[Keltest]

Well if they baited my squad on bot I expect to get a kill from that.

They kill mid lane viking, the top lane one has time to escape . And Zeratul is invisible, so he's fine.

One kill for one Viking, and my whole team is pushing bot lane (and reasdy to port back if needed) while the enemies are out of position.

And even if we don't get a kill, who cares. Viking lifes don't matter much, and we still have continuous XP advantage.

not if your two top Vikings are both out of their lanes you don't. Only Eric really has the ability to actually stay in a lane when someone is trying to push him out of it, and that comes to the detriment of your other two Vikings. Relying on TLV alone for all of your lane presence is a dangerous gamble specifically because it relies on the opposing team not having a clue how to get them out of the lanes. And your global force is going to struggle to contest the two top lanes because its 4v5 assuming zeratul shows up to help (the Vikings are dead or otherwise unhelpful because the enemy showed up) and, as you say, doesn't want to teamfight at all.

Wait what?

BHB is *the* only map in which you can afford to avoid every teamfight and pushing can just win the game on its own.

I think you and I have a different definition of pushing. Its not pushing (to me) if youre never leaving the middle of the map and using Blackheart to do damage, that's controlling the objective. You have to actually be pushing out for it to be considered pushing.

[Gandariel]

You do actual pushing with the Vikings, yes.

The idea is that the opponents *can* try ganking out of position Vikings, but if they don't move together they are in constant danger of wipe.

1-2-3 people go top for a quick gank? Boom, global squad appears and kills them for free (the other vikings retreat momentarily as the global CDs recharge)

(Remember that VP and Gust can separate enemies very well)

Your entire 5-man team goes together? Sure, have a free viking or two. I'll take XP on the other lanes, mercenaries, and maybe a turn in.

My point is, with this comp you have :

1) your opponent has to realize exactly what you're doing or die hopelessly

2) low risk (free viking deaths)

3) huge rewards if you pull it off (get 2 free kills, then you actually CAN teamfight for a while, neutralizing the only real advantage your opponent had)

4) only high priority pick is Falstad.

[Keltest]

You do actual pushing with the Vikings, yes.

The idea is that the opponents *can* try ganking out of position Vikings, but if they don't move together they are in constant danger of wipe.

1-2-3 people go top for a quick gank? Boom, global squad appears and kills them for free (the other vikings retreat momentarily as the global CDs recharge)

(Remember that VP and Gust can separate enemies very well)

Your entire 5-man team goes together? Sure, have a free viking or two. I'll take XP on the other lanes, mercenaries, and maybe a turn in.

My point is, with this comp you have :

1) your opponent has to realize exactly what you're doing or die hopelessly

2) low risk (free viking deaths)

3) huge rewards if you pull it off (get 2 free kills, then you actually CAN teamfight for a while, neutralizing the only real advantage your opponent had)

4) only high priority pick is Falstad.

It takes very little game knowledge to see the Vikings split soaking while the others roam and gank. When the Vikings first came out, they had a massive winrate because people were unprepared for that. Now, everyone and their cat expects that from the Vikings. And as you say, it has very few high priority picks, so the enemy team can get exactly what they want as well. Just last picking a nova and not being an idiot with her (a tall order, I know) is enough to stop this from working because she picks off a Viking before anyone can get there to stop her, and boom, no more lane soak and terrible teamfight.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I think you and I have a different definition of pushing. Its not pushing (to me) if youre never leaving the middle of the map and using Blackheart to do damage, that's controlling the objective. You have to actually be pushing out for it to be considered pushing.

See, if all you do is never leave the middle of the map, your opponents have free reign to take camps, claim most of the doubloons, and destroy your forts more efficiently than you are destroying theirs with the objective. And your opponents can rotate on one of the chests when they spawn, and unless you 5-man rotate and guess right, they'll have a favorable fight, and get the 5 doubloons there.

Eventually, you have to do something about those mercenary camps that are pushing everywhere, and you'll have to leave middle.

Camping turn-in is the best way to lose BHB.

[Keltest]

See, if all you do is never leave the middle of the map, your opponents have free reign to take camps, claim most of the doubloons, and destroy your forts more efficiently than you are destroying theirs with the objective. And your opponents can rotate on one of the chests when they spawn, and unless you 5-man rotate and guess right, they'll have a favorable fight, and get the 5 doubloons there.

Eventually, you have to do something about those mercenary camps that are pushing everywhere, and you'll have to leave middle.

Camping turn-in is the best way to lose BHB.

Ok, to be clear, i didn't mean literally sitting around Blackheart with your whole team, that would be moronic. But i rarely if ever have to go into the enemy's territory unless i already have the game completely in hand and want to just finish it. The composition in question is going to struggle to react to anybody who can pick off the Vikings quickly, such as nova, and without the XP from that lane soak, at best youre fighting 4v5 with a composition built around ganking people and avoiding large teamfights. It has a gimmick which can, theoretically, catch people unaware, but the counter to it is very simple and it lets the enemy get their choice of high priority picks to boot in a draft.

[ChaosOS]

http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/...2016-9-27-2016

Patch notes!

Highlights relative to PTR:

Alarak Buffs!

Valla Buffs!

Chromie (Mostly) Buffs!

Gul'Dan Buffs!

[Keltest]

http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/...2016-9-27-2016

Patch notes!

Highlights relative to PTR:

Alarak Buffs!

Valla Buffs!

Chromie (Mostly) Buffs!

Gul'Dan Buffs!

Buffs for everyone!

[ChaosOS]

http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/game/heroes-brawl/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIordfmxqQM


Heroes of the Storm is getting a Brawl mode!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Nice! That's been in the works since last year's Blizzcon. Glad it's finally becoming a reality.

So, this week's Chair League game went horribly. We got stomped hard. But I was able to spend time afterwards going over the replay with our dedicated support player, who is the player with the least playtime in the game, but he's Diamond 3, and easily the best player all-around on the team, I think. (IIRC he has a background in other MOBAs.) I'm going to be learning a lot, working on pain points, and such.

In somewhat worse news, I somehow totally tanked my placements. Went 0-10 and now I'm Bronze 3.

[Gandariel]

I feel your pain. Kinda.

I was Diamond 2, went 3-7, got placed in Platinum 1.

I'm meeting so many potatoes it's ridiculous.

First pick nova, last pick "troll pick afk because of first pick nova", double support on Battlefield of Eternity (not Tyrande) (enemy had 2x our Immortal damage, we were actually winning teamfights but we lost all objectives), and of course a barrage of "you guys are_______" (Late to objectives, focusing tank, suiciding, yadda yadda)

I had a 9 deaths Raynor complain that I was bad because I missed one Stormbolt (which was basically a poke, not an important one) "this mura can't hit stuns".
Luckily my team backed me up and the Raynor never spoke again (but still kept feeding, despite us telling him to please stay in the back, YOUR TRAIT IS EXTRA RANGE) but it's ridiculous how everyone keeps complaining about everyone else.

Sadly it's human nature, but still.


In other news: I really love new Valla. Stutter stepping is so basic, fun and rewarding, with that awesome clicking sound. I could do it all day. I really enjoy out-trading people because I'm a better mechanical player than them.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Oof, that bites.

On the plus side, I handily won my first post-placement game with a Mura/Dibbles/Azmo/Malf/Aba comp. I was the Muradin, and I think he's probably my best HL "carry". He just explodes when he hits Level 16 and can take Give 'Em the Axe. And, blessedly, nobody raged despite our somewhat odd comp. It was pretty nice. Got MVP on that, too.

I know it's too much to hope for, probably, but it'd be great to see a lot more games like that. I'd like to be able to fight back to Silver, at least.

[Frog Dragon]

Normally with Muradin I would recommend Heavy Impact for the extra CC, but with a talented hat on you, Muradin just becomes an unstoppable juggernaut. I've ran this combo in team league and duoQ and it legitimately gets to the point where the hatted Muradin can just 1v4.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yeah, coordinated, I'd value Stoneform or Heavy Impact normally, but I do feel like the extra damage helps in an uncoordinated/low MMR environment. (I otherwise go the Thunderclap -> Healing Static build to stay in the fight pretty much forever.)