Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Gender
    Male

    Default If you hear them, you're already dead [Base Class]

    My first homebrew on this board. Let me know what you think.

    Woodborn Stalker

    You've always heard tails of men who entered the Elves' forest and never returned, and you always wondered what happened to those men. How did the forest swallow them up? What strange power do the Elves have?

    They have the Woodborn Stalkers.

    Those judged "worthy" are taken from birth. The only parents they know are the wood and their masters. The training is extremely rigorous- it has to be in order to eliminate the respect for life ingrained into all elves- and those who survive to become full-fledged stalkers are... not rangers, not assassins, but something else entirely. They become the woods, the thing that swallows up trespassers, the defenders of elven lands. Dangerous intruders and elven fugitives alike are killed ruthlessly and efficiently. It is ugly, but necessary to protect the homelands of the elves.




    Hit Die: d8

    Class Skills: The Woodborn Stalker's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str),
    Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Wis) Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str),
    Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Geography), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex),
    Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis),
    Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Skill Points: 6 + Int Modifier

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the Woodborn Stalker:

    Weapon and Armor proficiency:
    Woodborn Stalkers are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the Blow gun, shortbow, and short sword. Darkwood Stalkers are proficient
    with light armor, but not with shields.




    Woodborn Stalker
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Track, Weapon Focus|-|-|-|-

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Poison Use|-|-|-|-

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Sneak Attack +1d6|-|-|-|-

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Uncanny Dodge|0|-|-|-|

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Sneak Attack +2d6|0|-|-|-|

    6th|
    +6/1
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Woodland Stride, Evasion|1|-|-|-|

    7th|
    +7/2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Swift Tracker, Sneak Attack +3d6|1|-|-|-|

    8th|
    +8/3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Improved Uncanny Dodge|1|0|-|

    9th|
    +9/4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Crippling Strike, Sneak Attack +4d6|1|0|-|-|

    10th|
    +10/5
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Death Attack|1|1|-|-|

    11th|
    +11/6/1
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Sneak Attack +5d6|1|1|0|-|

    12th|
    +12/7/2
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Camouflage|1|1|1|-|

    13th|
    +13/8/3
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |Sneak Attack +6d6|1|1|1|-|

    14th|
    +14/9/4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |Improved Evasion|2|1|1|0|

    15th|
    +15/10/5
    |
    +x9
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |Sneak Attack +7d6|2|1|1|1|

    16th|
    +16/11/6/1
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Hide in Plain Sight|2|2|1|1|

    17th|
    +17/12/7/2
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |Sneak Attack +8d6|2|2|2|1|

    18th|
    +18/13/8/3
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Skill Mastery|3|2|2|1|

    19th|
    +19/14/9/4
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |Sneak Attack +9d6|3|3|3|2|

    20th|
    +20/15/10/5
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |Improved Death Attack|3|3|3|3|[/table]

    Track
    At first level, woodborn stalkers recieve Track as a bonus feat.

    Favored Weapon
    At first level, woodborn stalkers recieve weapon focus as a bonus feat applied to any one weapon they are proficient with (stalker's choice).

    Poison Use
    Woodborn stalkers are trained in the use of poison and starting at second level never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to a blade.

    Sneak Attack
    Identical to the rogue abillity, though the progression is delayed two levels.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex)

    Starting at 4th level, a woodborn stalker retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.)

    If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below).

    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
    At 8th level, woodborn stalker can no longer be flanked, since he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies rogues the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the assassin. The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the assassin can flank him (and thus sneak attack him).

    Woodland Stride (Ex)
    Starting at 6th level, a woodborn stalker may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment.

    However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect him.

    Evasion (Ex)

    At 6th level, a woodborn stalker can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the ranger is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless ranger does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Swift Tracker (Ex)

    Beginning at 7th level, a woodborn stalker can move at his normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty. He takes only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.


    Crippling Strike (Ex)

    Begining at 9th level, woodborn stalker can sneak attack opponents with such precision that his blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent
    damaged by one of his sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage. Ability points lost to damage return on their own at the rate
    of 1 point per day for each damaged ability.

    Death Attack (Ex)

    If a woodborn stalker studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target woodborn stalker's choice). While studying the victim, the woodborn stalker can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the stalker or recognize the stalker as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 4 + the stalker's class level + the stalker's Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the stalker. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the stalker has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds.

    Improved Evasion (Ex)

    As the rogue special ability

    Camouflage (Ex)

    At 12th level, a woodborn stalker can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or
    concealment.

    Hide in Plain Sight (Ex)

    While in any sort of natural terrain, a woodborn stalker with this ability can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

    Skill Mastery
    (Ex)
    As the rogue ability

    Improved Death Attack (Ex)
    At 20th level, the woodborn stalker has perfected his death attack abillity. From here on, the DC of the woodborn stalker's death attack is equal to 10 + his INT modifier + his class level.





    Spell DCs, caster level, and bonus spells are Wisdom-based.

    1st-Level Woodborn Stalker Spells
    Alarm, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Delay Poison, Detect Animals, Detect Poison, Detect Snares and Pits, Endure Elements, Entangle, Hide from Animals, Jump, Longstrider, Obscuring mists, Pass without Trace, Sleep, Speak with Animals, True Strike



    2nd-Level Woodborn Stalker Spells

    Barkskin, Bear's Endurance, Cat's Grace, Hold ANimal, Silence, Snare, Speak with Plants,
    Spider Climb, Spike Growth


    3rd-Level Woodborn Stalker Spells

    Command Plants, Darkvision, Deep Slumber, Diminish Plants, Neutralize Poison, Reduce Animal, Non-Detection, Repel Vermin, Tree Shape, Water Walk


    4th-Level Woodborn Stalker Spells

    Animal Growth, Commune with Nature, Freedom of Movement, Locate Creature, Poison, Tree Stride
    Last edited by Human Paragon 3; 2007-06-14 at 08:47 PM.
    Click the spoiler to see all the great games I design:
    Spoiler
    Show


    Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.

    Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)

    PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.

    Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
    Spoiled Flush Games

    Twitter... where I talk about game design and beer.

  2. Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kyace's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Kentucky
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If you hear them, you're already dead [Base Class]

    Is it kosher to give a full BAB class sneak attack? Even delayed two class levels, they will end up hitting more often and making more attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by starwoof View Post
    Your manly chin makes Jay Leno weep.

  3. Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Ohio

    Default Re: If you hear them, you're already dead [Base Class]

    It just doesn't feel very unique; just a Ranger/Rogue hybrid with a Death Attack thrown in. Also, the lack of Trapfinding hurts the class' ability to fill a Rogue's role (and therefore, any primary role) in a party. It looks pretty balanced though; the hit dice and full BaB help the class in combat enough to make up for its fairly lackluster features.
    Last edited by TO_Incognito; 2007-06-14 at 07:14 PM.

  4. Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If you hear them, you're already dead [Base Class]

    Not sure on the Bab. That's part of why I posted it. I don't think it's pound for pound stronger than any of the core classes even with full BAB, but I'm not 100% positive.

    I made this class a while ago to fill a niche. I feel like a lot of players want the killer in the woods and ranger and rogue both seem to fall short of the mark. It's not as useful as a rogue in a dungeon situation by any means, but that's not the intention of the class. For better or for worse, it's built to wait in the woods and kill those who attempt enter or leave.
    Click the spoiler to see all the great games I design:
    Spoiler
    Show


    Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.

    Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)

    PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.

    Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
    Spoiled Flush Games

    Twitter... where I talk about game design and beer.

  5. Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    JackMage666's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Central Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If you hear them, you're already dead [Base Class]

    Weapon Focus
    At first level, woodborn stalkers recieve weapon focus as a bonus feat aplied to any weapon they are proficient with.
    Whosajiggawha!

    (Try saying that, it's fun!)

    Anyway, wow. Really, really, really strong. If my calculations are correct, they recieve more bonus feats at first level than a fighter does at 20th. Also, throw ina level of fighter, and you have Weapon Focus with all weapons (excluding exotic). Wowwy.

    In other words, a lot too strong, especially with good BAB already.
    If there's a rule, there's someone out there trying to figure out how to get around it just to piss off his DM.

    Spoiler
    Show
    - The Jack-signal. Thanks Jokes!

    Avatar created by Yeril, who made it look awesome.

  6. Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kyace's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Kentucky
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If you hear them, you're already dead [Base Class]

    Warning, some math content and opinions in spoilers. Open at own risk.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Mathematically, A Woodborn Stalker will deal (on average) 3.5 HP less damage in a sneak attack standard attack but deal that damage atleast 5% more often (after 3rd level) than a rogue. At level 5, and every 4 levels after, the sneak attack will hit another 5% more often, as a standard attack, than a rogue's, up to 25% more often at level 20. On full attacks, Woodborn Stalkers not only hit more often, they begin making more attacks sooner. This quickly gives them the edge in damage output.

    At level 20, a rogue at +15/+10/+5 BAB and 10d6 sneak attack while a Woodborn Stalker has +20/+15/+10/+5 BAB and deals 9d6 sneak attack.

    Lets say two level 20 elves are 30 feet away from a Balor (AC 28 flatfooted). Both have 24 (+7) Dex and both are using +4 Longbows (by free weapon proficiency). With no other feats or items, assume they both surprised the Balor at once.

    The rogue will have a full attack of +26/+21/+16/+11 that will deal 1d8+10d6+4 (ave. 43.5) damage. Assuming average rolls on attack rolls of 10, only the first two attacks will hit, each dealing 43.5 damage. This deals 87 damage if the arrows are cold iron or 57 damage if not.

    The Woodborn Stalker will have a full attack of +31/+26/+21/+16/+11 that will deal 1d8+9d6+4 (ave. 40) damage. Again assuming average rolls of 10 on the attack rolls, the first three attacks will hit, each dealing 40 damage. This deals 120 damage with cold iron arrows or 75 damage without.

    Now instead of a rogue, lets turn the other Elf into a Ranger with the favored enemy of Outsider (Evil) with the same stats and bow. The Ranger really hates evil outsiders and has favored it since the beginning. The Ranger will have a full attack of +31/+26/+21/+16/+11 (or +29/+29/+24/+19/+14/+9 with Rapid Shot). With Rapid Shot and an average roll of 10, the first 4 attacks will hit (the fourth barely) each dealing 1d8+14 [10 for favored enemy, 4 for +4 bow] (ave. 18.5 damage). This will deal the Balor 74 damage with cold iron arrows or 44 without. Of course the ranger doesn't have to be within 30 feet of the angry Balor so we'll forgive them the least damage. Besides, the ranger is making more attacks than anyone else so will likely make more crits bringing this up more in practice.

    3/4s BAB classes like the rogue need sneak attack to keep dealing enough damage to matter. The sneak attack itself is just flavor to explain where the damage is coming from. Full BAB classes shouldn't really need sneak attack to deal enough damage to matter, they simply deal damage normally. Sneaky class don't need to throw a bunch of d6 die to prove they are sneaky, the flavor of sneak attack is different from the crunch of sneak attacks. At level 20, a pure rogue will deal 35 damage per sneak attack just from the sneak attack. A woodland stalker will deal, on average, 10% less sneak attack damage but hit 25% more often.


    If you want to keep them about fair, you could instead give the woodland stalker less sneak attack by a slower progression. Instead of delaying the progression by 2 levels, have it increase less often. It should be possible to have a full BAB class with 3/4 sneak attack progression be roughly balanced with a 3/4 BAB class with full sneak attack progression. Instead of 9d6 at level 20, 7d6 should be closer to balanced. It would still be strong for a full BAB class, but the limits of sneak attack should almost make up for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by starwoof View Post
    Your manly chin makes Jay Leno weep.

  7. Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kyace's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Kentucky
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If you hear them, you're already dead [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by JackMage666 View Post
    Whosajiggawha!

    (Try saying that, it's fun!)

    Anyway, wow. Really, really, really strong. If my calculations are correct, they recieve more bonus feats at first level than a fighter does at 20th. Also, throw ina level of fighter, and you have Weapon Focus with all weapons (excluding exotic). Wowwy.

    In other words, a lot too strong, especially with good BAB already.
    I think that is meant to be a single feat.

    Weapon Focus
    At first level, woodborn stalkers recieve weapon focus as a bonus feat aplied to any weapon they are proficient with.
    The key words seem to be "bonus feat" singular and "applied to any weapon" as apposed to "applied to all weapons". It only gives +1 to attack rolls anyway so unless the player is trying something cheesy, like some power/class ability to change out known feats with new feats, it doubt its the too bad. Besides, any fighter who spends all their feats from levels 1 to 20 on Weapon Focus for different weapons has a screw loose.
    Quote Originally Posted by starwoof View Post
    Your manly chin makes Jay Leno weep.

  8. Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: If you hear them, you're already dead [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyace View Post
    I think that is meant to be a single feat.


    The key words seem to be "bonus feat" singular and "applied to any weapon" as apposed to "applied to all weapons". It only gives +1 to attack rolls anyway so unless the player is trying something cheesy, like some power/class ability to change out known feats with new feats, it doubt its the too bad. Besides, any fighter who spends all their feats from levels 1 to 20 on Weapon Focus for different weapons has a screw loose.
    So then it should be something more like:

    At first level Woodborn stalkers gain the Weapon Focus feat. This feat can be applied to any one weapon with which the Woodborn stalker is proficient.

    or perhaps more clearly:

    At first level Woodborn stalkers gain the Weapon Focus feat.
    Recent Ancient Attempts at homebrewing :

    Daoist(Prc), Kinderhorror (MitP:8-0), Gribble(MitP: 11-1), Shardfiend(MitP:8-0), Sun Tyrant(MitP:6-0), Sunworshiper(MitP: 3-0),Spidaren (MitP: 7-0), Movie Themed Feats

    Any & all advice and opinions, and votes, are welcome

  9. Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If you hear them, you're already dead [Base Class]

    Changed weapon focus to be a bit more clear. Will probably change sneak attack to 3/4 and spread out some of the two-fer class abilities when I get around to it.

    BTW, Kyace +1 for the math work.
    Last edited by Human Paragon 3; 2007-06-14 at 08:49 PM.
    Click the spoiler to see all the great games I design:
    Spoiler
    Show


    Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.

    Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)

    PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.

    Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
    Spoiled Flush Games

    Twitter... where I talk about game design and beer.

  10. Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kanagawa, Japan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If you hear them, you're already dead [Base Class]

    A nice Ranger variant this, though it probably should be labelled as such. in some ways I get the feeling that there ought to be a Prestige Class for the concept to go with this Base Class. Good job.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •