Warhammer 40K Fluff Thread XI - Juggling Idiot Balls

[Voidhawk]

Well, that all went to **** hilariously quickly. By my count, the Imperium is losing/lost horribly on every single planet in the Cryptus system. The Sisters were the only ones to have even a sliver of temporary success. I guess that's what happens when you let a hivefleet make planetfall without weakening it through naval battles: ten thousand Carnifexes, multiple Biotitans, and Pyschic everything.

I generally like rooting for Tyranids in fluff, but here it seemed almost too easy: deploy overwhelming force, wait for enemy commanders to be idiots. With the amount of damage inflicted and number of broodbeasts deployed, it seems like there's nothing that could possibly be done to pull out any kind of Imperial victory (pyrrhic or otherwise).

Oh wait. We haven't seen any Space Marines yet.

[The Glyphstone]

Wait, wasn't this the last planet in the cluster? So the Tyranids win?

[Wraith]

The Sisters of Battle are still alive, I think? Though probably not much left of them by now.

[Drasius]

To be fair, it sounds like the 'Nids are playing a 2500 point game with 25000 points.

IG Player; Yep, I've got a handful of guard squads, some SWS and HWS, a couple of stormtroopers in valks, ogryn with a lord commisar counts as, a couple of priests, a full squadron of hydras and a baneblade
'Nid player; Yeah, OK, I've got hundreds of tyrannocytes, over a hundred carnifexes, armfuls of genestealers, loads of maxed out Zoanthropes, a walking tyrant in pod with tyrant guard in a pod
IG Player; Uhhh, I think you might be a touch over on points man, can I see your codex please?
'Nid player; Nah I left my 'dex at home, but it's fine. Besides, this is 7th and I've got a melee army and you've got a ranged army. I didn't even take any fliers and my hive tyrant doesn't even have any wings. You've got a superheavy too you cheesemonger, and mine are just over there sitting on the shelf, do you want me to go get them? What more do you want?
IG player; *sigh* I guess. Roll for sides?

[Blackhawk748]

To be fair, it sounds like the 'Nids are playing a 2500 point game with 25000 points.

IG Player; Yep, I've got a handful of guard squads, some SWS and HWS, a couple of stormtroopers in valks, ogryn with a lord commisar counts as, a couple of priests, a full squadron of hydras and a baneblade
'Nid player; Yeah, OK, I've got hundreds of tyrannocytes, over a hundred carnifexes, armfuls of genestealers, loads of maxed out Zoanthropes, a walking tyrant in pod with tyrant guard in a pod
IG Player; Uhhh, I think you might be a touch over on points man, can I see your codex please?
'Nid player; Nah I left my 'dex at home, but it's fine. Besides, this is 7th and I've got a melee army and you've got a ranged army. I didn't even take any fliers and my hive tyrant doesn't even have any wings. You've got a superheavy too you cheesemonger, and mine are just over there sitting on the shelf, do you want me to go get them? What more do you want?
IG player; *sigh* I guess. Roll for sides?

As we all know, this is how Nids win in fluff. Nice to see them actually using their overwhelming numbers, especially when Carnifexes can apparently get Without Number

[Eldan]

If only it worked that way on the table. My nids go from loss to loss.

(Last win I had was in our 2 vs. 2 500 pts per player tournament. It was hilarious, we brought around 70 gants and two hive tyrants against footslogging marines.

[Cheesegear]

Wait, wasn't this the last planet in the cluster? So the Tyranids win?

Last planet was a while back; Lysios, Asphodex/Phodia, Ixoi, Aeros and Tartoros. Perdita is a Dead World and not worth defending.
We're now back on Asphodex, and we're about to head to Lysios again.

All of this has happened in the span of three days. That's how overwhelming Tyranids are.

[Red Planet]

Thanks for these updates, Cheesegear!
Quick question: Genestealer cults are eaten up like the rest of the population when the Hive Fleet arrives, right? Do they know that and welcome it, or are they expecting some less horrible fate? How do they persuade members to carry out the activities of the cult on that basis? Is it psychic domination, instincts from the 'stealer strain, or are they actually motivated by wanting to 'become one with the Hive Fleet' or something like that?

[Manticoran]

Thanks for these updates, Cheesegear!
Quick question: Genestealer cults are eaten up like the rest of the population when the Hive Fleet arrives, right? Do they know that and welcome it, or are they expecting some less horrible fate? How do they persuade members to carry out the activities of the cult on that basis? Is it psychic domination, instincts from the 'stealer strain, or are they actually motivated by wanting to 'become one with the Hive Fleet' or something like that?

Nope, they expect to be eaten. It's a combination of psychic domination and the fact that the members of the cult are actually part genestealer for the most part. I believe there's some kind of pheromone control type thing that Genestealers can exert over their cults due to the way they're tampered with. They're probably Fearless in game rules, for instance, if we ever got game rules for Genestealer Cults that weren't horrible.

[Grim Portent]

Genestealer cults are all part of a mini-hive mind ruled by the patriarch. They have individual minds and personalities, but they're driven by an instinctual desire to protect the brood and further it's goals. They get subsumed into the Hive Mind when it approaches the planet.

Genestealers and their hybrids are notable for being the only Tyranids who don't always want to be eaten. Some actively seek to avoid it by stowing away on ships fleeing from the Tyranid fleet. This is part of what the Hive Mind intended of course, since it means they spread without needing direct oversight. Some members of the cult will escape from the fleet to spread their taint across the stars, the rest get ensnared by the will of the Hive Mind and act as early battle shocktroopers, assassins and saboteurs.



Ymgarl Genestealers are the exception, since they long to be devoured and assimilated back into a fleet more than anything, but no fleet will take them for fear of their unstable genetics.

[Blackhawk748]

Nope, they expect to be eaten. It's a combination of psychic domination and the fact that the members of the cult are actually part genestealer for the most part. I believe there's some kind of pheromone control type thing that Genestealers can exert over their cults due to the way they're tampered with. They're probably Fearless in game rules, for instance, if we ever got game rules for Genestealer Cults that weren't horrible.

Ask and ye shall recieve. Note that that is for Heralds of Ruin Kill Team.

[Manticoran]

Ask and ye shall recieve. Note that that is for Heralds of Ruin Kill Team.

Kind of cool, but I want to run an actual ARMY that's a Cult. Like some kind of weird Lost and the Damned and Tyranid hybrid thing.

[Blackhawk748]

Kind of cool, but I want to run an actual ARMY that's a Cult. Like some kind of weird Lost and the Damned and Tyranid hybrid thing.

Ya, i wish that was a thing. I mean Heretics and Renegades with Genestealer allies could work, not great, but itll work.

[Cheesegear]

Cheesegear Reads: The Shield of Baal

Spoiler: Previously in The Red Scar

Show

Shield of Baal: Leviathan
Warning
Breach!
Battle of Lysios
Battle of Asphodex
Battle of Ixoi
Battle of Aeros
Battle of Tartoros
The Dragon Strikes
Psychic Escalation

Let's recap;
General Dhrost and Governor Flax are both MIA. Contact on Ixoi, Aeros and Tartoros are all lost. Sure wish we had someone cool to lead the fight...

Back to the Good Part!

• Canoness Magda Grace is still being hunted by the Lictor that took her eye. Tyranids still haunt her dreams. She thinks she's having waking nightmares, but, for all she knows, the shadows she jumps at could be all too real. Blooded but unbowed, her resident Order Dialogus jury rigs a bunch of servo-skulls and laud hailers.
• Grace jumps atop an Exorcist and starts reading from the Book of St. Lucius. In the morning, The Eyes of Cryptus slowly rising to look upon the Canoness about to give her speech.
  'She spoke of the light of the Astronomicon, the flame of defiance that burns in every human breast...'
• Some members of the crowd yell obscenities, some scream for Cryptus to smite Grace down. Members of the crowd near the hecklers beat the **** out of them. The Lysians want to hear Grace speak. She's going to save the world and everything! What has Cryptus ever done for us? All hail this new-fangled Emperor, right boys?
• At some particularly high-point of Grace's speech, the sky turns purple-black...LICTOR ATTACK!
• The Sororitas erupt in a fire of Bolts, Melta and Flame. The biggest Lictor rears up behind Grace (what, was it hiding in the tank!?), Grace takes a dive-roll off the top of the Exorcist, hitting the dirt, she rises facing the great Lictor, Bolt Pistol in hand, she shoots the Lictor in the head, brain matter bursting all over the Exorcist.
• ...The vox-skulls hadn't swayed from Grace's person the entire time. Everyone sitting in front of a TV of Lysios just saw the Sororitas get attacked, live, and Grace herself, personally slaying the biggest one. Here she is. The Slayer of Dragons. The 'Giant' that the seers prophecised had come to Cryptus in its darkest hour to slay the dragons. The Lysites personally present, throw dried seaweed at Grace.
• ...The Lysites look to the sky, seeing the large form of Ixoi. The planetary sign for the signal that a huge tidal wave is about to hit their position. Time to move.

• Many crawlers have joined Grace's convoy, to be personally under her protection. Many of the nomads had begun kneeling in her presence and calling her 'Saint Grace'.
  '...she had been re-educating the Lysite yokels at the barrel of a bolter, and now this.' She had finally got the nomads' attention, and now she couldn't get rid of it. At least Grace has the good sense to know that being called a 'Saint' is asinine...Unlike that failure Shrike.
• The nomads were to evac off planet, and get out of the way, while the Sororitas did the fighting. So far, so good.
• Grace sees the green-blue line on the horizon, and the bio-ships in the sky. If Grace timed it right, the Tyranids would be swept away by the tidal wave at the last minute.
• Seeing that the Sororitas vehicles had stopped, the nomads turn their vehicles around to reinforce the Sororitas... No, no, no. That is not the plan.

Stupid yokels. Don't they know Grace is trying to save them!?

The Second Battle of Lysios

• Grace's Dialogus tells her that the nomads were coming back to be martyred in their new Emperor's sight.
• Grace isn't planning on dying, she's luring the Tyranids into a trap. The nomads have no idea what they're doing.
• Raveners and Trygons burst up through the ground. Again and again. The goal doesn't seem to be to eat or attack the Sisters and the nomads. No, the Tyranids' goal simply seems to be to get in the way. To slow down the column. Even with her Rhinos being equipped with Dozer Blades, the Rhinos are still getting Tyranid bits lodged in their tracks.
• Seraphim can fly. It's the best tactical advantage you can have. Everyone knows. The Seraphim tells Grace that there's the tidal wave coming from the south and two Swarms of Tyranids coming from the east and west.
• Grace hears the voxes of the convoy in front of her armoured column. Spitting out prayers to Cryptus and the Emperor alike. Obviously, the conversion to the Imperial Creed didn't take on everyone.
• The convoy turns around to save their saviour, artillery strikes hitting the Tyranid line. Well...If you're going to die anyway, die guns blazing.
• The Sisters are now standing atop their Rhinos, singing their prayers to The Emperor while they blast Tyranids with Bolters. Retributors and Exorcists take care of the Trygons and Mawlocs, while everyone else, deals with the rest.
• 'As far as turning back the Tyranid swarms went, however, they might as well have been throwing rocks into the sea.'
• The Astra Militarum's dropships have braved the Tyranid blockade, and arrive to take the Sisters back into space.
• Too late. GrimDark happens. The planetary tidal wave hits the ruined city.
• 'The tidal wave was stronger than the largest Mechanicus god-machine.' Hundreds of Sisters die from the tidal wave, crushing them inside their armour.
• Grace is surprised when her Rhino 'bumps' against the evac ship's ramp, too focussed on the tidal wave and its cataclysmic destruction.
• She sees a family running for their life, she shoots her Bolt Pistol behind the family into the Tyranids chasing them.
• One, two, five, ten seconds tick by. The drop ship pilot decides enough is enough, and it's time to go. Grace screams through her vox for him to wait just a bit longer. Nope. The pilot is the one in charge, and he's looking at wave after wave of Tyranids closing on his position, with an orbital tidal wave about to hit him, in like, a minute.
• Grace watches as the dropship rises off the ground, and the ramp slowly closes on the nomads who were only seconds too late for redemption.

Of course it would. Because why would it not?

Spoiler

Show

Something flickered in the corner of her vision. She turned to see a monstrous figure made of blades emerge from the darkness behind the ramp's pistons. Six eyes glimmered in the gloom, a sight that had haunted her nightmares for years. The hated thing even bore the detonation scars from the last time she had killed it.
'I'll slay you a dozen times if I have to,' she snarled, pointing her bolt pistol at its mass of feeder tendrils.
The pistol clicked dry.
The nest of tentacles shot out, wrapping around her helmet and yanking it free. She roared her defiance as the Lictor's mantis claws whipped down for her unprotected neck.
Then, in a double spray of blood, the Matyr Saint of Lysios finally found the redemption she craved.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU...
You're not allowed to have heroes. EVERYONE DIES. What!? You thought there'd be happy ending? Hell no! And **** you for thinking otherwise! Sisters don't even have a real Codex! Why would you ever think that anybody gets to live at the end of a 40K story? None of these people even have Codex entries. Or models. Do you really think GW gives a crap about continuity? No, just introduce a whole bunch of characters, and then kill them all off. It's not like anybody would get attached to any of them anyway. Who's with me? Right, guys?

Besides, killing off all the characters now, means GW can introduce a bunch of new ones in the next book! Forget character development! Just keep throwing in new ones on an endless conveyor belt. That's what people really want. MOAR CHARACTERS!!! You'll identify with one of them eventually...Just kidding, they're dead now. I hope you had a backup character just in case. What do you mean lack of character development leads to lack of audience engagement? What do you even know about anything!? Huh!?

*Huff*

I'm not against people dying. I'm not even against my favourite characters dying. I'm against everyone dying.
If your response is "Cheese, it's GrimDark. That's what happens at the end." Well, this isn't the end. There's still Karlean's story; Deathstorm, and a whole 'nother book to go.
Spoiler alert; I hope you like Blood Angels, 'cause that's what you're going to get from now on.

I can't make a sighface big enough.

Tune in soon for the epilogue of Shield of Baal: Leviathan...

[Drasius]

Tune in soon for the epilogue of Shield of Baal: Leviathan...

Technically the 'Nids survived, so, ya know, not everyone died.

Besides, it's a book about the 'Nids, it's effectively their 7.5 codex (since it was the first of the competative formation books IIRC), why shouldn't they get to win hard before the BAngles come in and stomp them while they brofist the 'Crons?

[Tome]

Can somebody give the Sororitas a win for once? Seriously. I don't even mind if it's against Tau.

Hell, just don't kill off the cool Cannoness, the ending was already plenty grimdark. Bloody astartes never have to put up with this.

[Voidhawk]

Contact on Ixoi, Aeros and Tartoros are all lost.

Sisters die protecting an evacuation that has already been infiltrated by Lictors.

Welp. Along with the Asphodex evacuation getting drowned under Pyschic monstrosities and Bio-Titans, that's five out of five planets lost. GG.

All in all, this is a complete and total loss for the Imperium. There is literally nothing left to fight over here. I have no idea what the Blood Angels hope to achieve (when/if they finally deign to turn up), but this is now a job for any Naval vessel that can administer an Exterminatus or five. Of course, they'd first have to break through the fleet of undamaged bioships that are chowing down on the planets, so good luck with that.

So... is the next book going to deal with a completely different solar system?

[Blackhawk748]

Started awesome, then became Needlessly Grimdark

Then the Cannoness died, and not like the Epic Badass that she is.

Thats all that needs to be said. This system is a total lose, GG Imperium, you F****d up, especially you Blood Angels. Way to support your allies. The solution is now Nuke it from Orbit.

Honestly, even with the Idiot Ball getting passed around in Kauyon and Mont'ka, they where well written. This doesnt seem well written to me.

[lord_khaine]

Well.. not that i normally mind seeing the imperium lose for a change, but i can see that the normal "noone but Space Marines Matters" are getting to other people as well this time.

And yeah, i would say its bad technique by the writers. If they kill some of the POV characters then it usually increase the tension to see who survives.
But if the muppets kill off all of them, then it just means people are less likely to get invested in the next characters they introduce.

[Blackhawk748]

Well.. not that i normally mind seeing the imperium lose for a change, but i can see that the normal "noone but Space Marines Matters" are getting to other people as well this time.

And yeah, i would say its bad technique by the writers. If they kill some of the POV characters then it usually increase the tension to see who survives.
But if the muppets kill off all of them, then it just means people are less likely to get invested in the next characters they introduce.

"Noone Matters but Space Marines" has always annoyed me. For this reason, of the 5 WH 40k novels i own (yes im aware its not a lot ) only 1 is about Marines, and that is Dark Adeptus, which is A) by Ben Counter and B) about Grey Knights, so i let it slide. The others are Faith and Fire, Hammer and Anvil, Fifteen Hours, and Xenos. Now in these remaining 4 only one is super Grimdark (guess which one) and in that the death was fitting to the plot.

I get that this is a fight against Nids, i get that its supposed to be Grim, Dark and Hopeless, but for ****s sake at least let the Cannoness take that stupid frakking Lictor with her. Or better yet, let the Civies escape. This whole situation is just making me feel like a PC with a super railroady DM with a giant DMPC Mary Sue complex.

"You all fought hard, and died before the Swarm, but now, in the systems darkest hour, they shall be saved by the Mary Sue Brigade! Blood Angels!"

Yes i know this is a bit unfair, but thats what it feels like. The writers have established this so far:

1. The Tyranid Hive Mind is very flexible
2. That this Hive Fleet has a metric crap ton of Stone Crusher Carnifexes
3. That it has Harridans
4. That it has freakin BIO TITANS!
5. That it can spam Psykers like no tomorrow
6. That there are enough organisms and biomass that this fleet can overrun 4 planets in 3-4 days

Ya, way to set up an unbeatable enemy. I dont see how the Blood Angels are gonna be able to beat all of that without Plot Contrivance or like a dozen full Chapters of backup.

[Voidhawk]

Yes I know this is a bit unfair, but thats what it feels like. The writers have established this so far:

1. The Tyranid Hive Mind is very flexible
2. That this Hive Fleet has a metric crap ton of Stone Crusher Carnifexes
3. That it has Harridans
4. That it has freakin BIO TITANS!
5. That it can spam Psykers like no tomorrow
6. That there are enough organisms and biomass that this fleet can overrun 4 planets in 3-4 days

Ya, way to set up an unbeatable enemy. I dont see how the Blood Angels are gonna be able to beat all of that without Plot Contrivance or like a dozen full Chapters of backup.

The thing with Tyranid Hive Fleets, is that whenever the Imperium/Eldar/Tau/whoever fight one they first have a giant space battle with it. They blow up as many of the big ships as they can and try to scatter the smaller ones, but then have to retreat and the remainder get through to scatter spores over the planet. Here, that didn't happen. The Navy down right ignored the fleet, presuming it would die in the cold-vortex-thingy, so not a single bioship was destroyed before they flooded the system.

The way I've always imagined fleets to work, is that each Hive-ship/Norn-Queen has a production specialty. Any of them can do anything in a pinch, but each one has something they prefer/are optimised for. One likes churning out Carnifexes, one makes everything pyschic, one just spams a billion gaunts, etc. And usually some/most of those specialists would be destroyed in their Hive-ships, or be otherwise unable to send their broods down to the planet. But here that didn't happen: instead you get to see the entire force of the Tyranids unleashed. Every Norn-Queen gets to do what they're best at, at once, with nothing holding them back. Whatever strategy or trick you try and use they have a counter for it, and can cover the world in that counter. A million guardsmen get met with a billion gaunts, a hundred void-shields meet ten-thousand carnifexes, a trio of alpha-psykers get drowned out by dozens of Zoanthropes and multiple Bio-Titans.

Hive Fleet Behemoth destroyed Tyran in a single day. Small splinters of Kraken can overwhelm lightly defended worlds in less than a week. You must ALWAYS fight Tyranids in space. The Admiral who screwed this up deserves a long and public torturing by the Inquisition.



Then again, if you look at this as an Only-War campaign gone horrilby wrong (a-la DM of The Rings) it all becomes pretty funny. The GM is of the Gygaxian "You vs Me" type, and the players are all idiots.

So the campaign is set up so that the first event is a set-piece battle between fleets at this giant ice-vortex; depending on how well the players do will make the rest of the campaign easier or harder. But after hearing the overly-long and scary description of the vortex and screwing up all their Knowledge:(Nids vs cold) checks, the players decide it's far too dangerous to take their precious ships in there. The GM had estimated that they'd blow up around half the fleet before planet fall, so had over-CR'd the 'Nids hugely, but he always refuses to change encounter difficulty after the fact.

Trying to give them a small break, the GM then splits up the 'Nid armada and has them attack all the planets at once. But instead the players just make things worse: unable to decide about which planet to prioritise they instead split the party, sending one to each of the worlds. Not only does this mean they each get completely ruined by the double-difficulty-for-a-full-party encounters, the GM is supremely irritated by having to run seperate sessions for each of their fights.

Finally, a pair of late joining players show up, and get given previous NPCs for their trouble. The first is supremely bored, constantly looking at his phone, and just disinterestedly pilots the guy from the intro who sent the players info about the system being attacked. The second is a min-maxing ***, who optimises a background NPC using splat-book-abuse and the Pysker-Battle-Squad rules to somehow give himself a trio of slave Alpha Pykers at level 1. At this point the GM finally gives up, announces "Psychic Bio-Titans Fall, Everybody Dies!", and calls the train wreck to a halt.

"So, who wants to try Death Watch next time? We could all be Blood Angels!" announces the min-maxer...

[Manticoran]

Then again, if you look at this as an Only-War campaign gone horrilby wrong (a-la DM of The Rings) it all becomes pretty funny. The GM is of the Gygaxian "You vs Me" type, and the players are all idiots.

So the campaign is set up so that the first event is a set-piece battle between fleets at this giant ice-vortex; depending on how well the players do will make the rest of the campaign easier or harder. But after hearing the overly-long and scary description of the vortex and screwing up all their Knowledge:(Nids vs cold) checks, the players decide it's far too dangerous to take their precious ships in there. The GM had estimated that they'd blow up around half the fleet before planet fall, so had over-CR'd the 'Nids hugely, but he always refuses to change encounter difficulty after the fact.

Trying to give them a small break, the GM then splits up the 'Nid armada and has them attack all the planets at once. But instead the players just make things worse: unable to decide about which planet to prioritise they instead split the party, sending one to each of the worlds. Not only does this mean they each get completely ruined by the double-difficulty-for-a-full-party encounters, the GM is supremely irritated by having to run seperate sessions for each of their fights.

Finally, a pair of late late players show up, and get given previous NPCs for their trouble The first is supremely bored, constantly looking at his phone, and just disinterestedly pilots the guy from the intro who sent the players info about the system being attacked. The second is a min-maxing ***, who optimises a background NPC using splat-book-abuse and the Pysker-Battle-Squad rules to somehow give himself a trio of slave Alpha Pykers at level 1. At this point the GM finally gives up, announces "Pyschic Bio-Titans Fall, Everybody Dies!", and calls the train wreck to a halt.

"So, who wants to try Death Watch next time? We could all be Blood Angels!" announces the min-maxer...

...New headcanon accepted, this makes this entire thing SO MUCH FUNNIER. Now thinking of it as being kind of like Darths & Droids but for 40k.

[lord_khaine]

I get that this is a fight against Nids, i get that its supposed to be Grim, Dark and Hopeless, but for ****s sake at least let the Cannoness take that stupid frakking Lictor with her. Or better yet, let the Civies escape. This whole situation is just making me feel like a PC with a super railroady DM with a giant DMPC Mary Sue complex.

This is often the default purpose of 40k Writhing. In the grim darkness of the 40K, people die to make Space Marines look good...

Hive Fleet Behemoth destroyed Tyran in a single day. Small splinters of Kraken can overwhelm lightly defended worlds in less than a week. You must ALWAYS fight Tyranids in space. The Admiral who screwed this up deserves a long and public torturing by the Inquisition.

To be fair though, the plan they came up with for dealing with the Tyranid fleet were pretty nice. Wait on the other side of the warp anomaly, and pound anything that makes it though into rubble.

But its just then huge amounts of DM fiat that Tyranids can firstly recover almost instantaneously from being frozen down to the absolute zero.
Is one thing that they can survive, but thawing should take them weeks in such a cold place as space.

And they should meanwhile have been sitting ducks for the waiting fleet. Capital ships have the firepower to level cities, turn rock and metal into their component gasses.
A bit of water should not offer any sort of protection from that.

[Cristo Meyers]

Honestly, even with the Idiot Ball getting passed around in Kauyon and Mont'ka, they where well written. This doesnt seem well written to me.

I know. I head-desked so hard after reading the update that I'm seeing double. It's like someone read Game of Thrones, took all the dumbest stuff from it, and decided to write a 40K story...

[Cheesegear]

Hell, just don't kill off the cool Cannoness, the ending was already plenty grimdark. Bloody astartes never have to put up with this.

They actually do.

So... is the next book going to deal with a completely different solar system?

Nope.

This doesnt seem well written to me.

Yes and no. But I'll talk about that later.

but i can see that the normal "noone but Space Marines Matters" are getting to other people as well this time.

It's not that. As Drasius said, it's the Tyranids' book. They have to win. Mostly. What they shouldn't do is win totally. But, the major problem with Tyranids is that by their very nature, they can't have a PoV character. At least, not a character that I could see these terrible writers writing. Because we have no PoV character, we can't relate to anything that the Tyranids do. But, the people we can relate to, are all dead.

It wouldn't matter if the next book was about Eldar. Not to me, anyway. The next book will have zero continuity with the first book, because all the characters from the first book, are dead. It's almost as if, if you don't play or care about Tyranids, you don't even need the first book to understand the campaign.

And yeah, i would say its bad technique by the writers. If they kill some of the POV characters then it usually increase the tension to see who survives.
But if the muppets kill off all of them, then it just means people are less likely to get invested in the next characters they introduce.

This is the core problem, and it has nothing to do with the fact that the next characters just so happen to be Space Marines.

Ya, way to set up an unbeatable enemy.

Which, as far as my understanding goes, is the point of Tyranids. Tyranids fall. Everyone dies. It's one of the forseeable futures of 40K. Hell, Tyranids brought The Silent King out of retirement for that very reason.

I know. I head-desked so hard after reading the update that I'm seeing double. It's like someone read Game of Thrones, took all the dumbest stuff from it, and decided to write a 40K story...

For all that people say that GRRM has a huge murder-boner; 4 out of 5 of the Stark kids are still alive, Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion are still alive. GRRM kills everyone except the main characters, and when he does kill a main character, it's a big deal.

[Blackhawk748]

Which, as far as my understanding goes, is the point of Tyranids. Tyranids fall. Everyone dies. It's one of the forseeable futures of 40K. Hell, Tyranids brought The Silent King out of retirement for that very reason.

They are supposed to be hard to beat. They are supposed to be a massive, seemingly invincible force, that requires sacrifice to defeat. That isn't what we get here. We get:

A. Imperium wielding the Idiot Ball
B. Nigh on infinite Carnifexes/Other massive scary creatures
C. The biggest bug carpet i have ever seen
D. An idiotic Planetary Governor who is apparently dealing with Genestealers

This isn't the Battle of Macragge, where, maybe, just maybe, the Imperium can pull off a win. This is Tyran. You dont win, you just lose, and theres nothing to save. The planets are stripped to nothing and the cores are extracted.

[Manticoran]

Well, that's basically just what happens when you don't bring something like the combined force of an entire Space Marine Chapter along with most of a Segmentum's fleets into one location when dealing with concentrations of Tyranids.

Honestly, from what I've seen so far, I'd view this as being not a terribly major incursion by the 'nids. The numbers of 'nids they're throwing out is at "Standard" so far, not "High".

And they could have written POV about 'nids from like, Genestealer Cult perspective, or even kind of from a Hive Tyrants perspective, but I'm not sure what the perspective of a Hive Tyrant would even feel like, since Synapse creatures effectively ARE all of the 'nids in their Synapse range as far as perception is concerned by my understanding.

But they even introduced the fact that there WERE large Genestealer/Cultist presence on at LEAST one of the planets, with a Planetary Governor owing them some kind of favor or something? They could have easily written a story that has that Cult through the whole system at this point, which would then make more sense as to why the Hive Fleet is hitting this location.

As far as Fleet goes, isn't this supposed to be a tendril of Leviathan? When is this supposed to take place? Pre or post Leviathan being diverted into Orc space? Is this even the right area for Leviathan? Like, we can already justify 'nids being ANYWHERE by "Well it's a Hive Fleet Kraken splinter fleet!", why is this one Leviathan?

[Cheesegear]

I'd view this as being not a terribly major incursion by the 'nids.

It isn't. It's one System. It's certainly possible that other, nearby Systems are being attacked, but we're not told that that's what's happening. Certainly, it isn't being treated as a Sector-wide threat. The sole reason that everything has gone as badly as it has, was because the Grand Cryptan Armada did close to nothing to thin the numbers.

As far as Fleet goes, isn't this supposed to be a tendril of Leviathan?

Yes. It's only a Tendril, not the real thing. I'm just going to assume that the real players in the Imperium are dealing with the main bulk of Leviathan, and that the men - and women - in Cryptus are the muppets that the Imperium sent in to deal with what should have been an easy-mode fight.

When is this supposed to take place? Pre or post Leviathan being diverted into Orc space?

996. Abraxes saves Vitria, warns the Imperium.
998. The Cryptus Campaign.
999. Octarius War.

Is this even the right area for Leviathan?

Anywhere is the right area for Leviathan. If you're in the Ultima Segmentum, you're fair game.

Spoiler: SPACE SHARKS!!!

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Unlike Kraken and Behemoth, Leviathan didn't attack from the Galactic Rim, hitting Macragge and the Tau Empire first, working inwards, one planet after the next.. Leviathan attacked from underneath the Galaxy, which means that no one target was hit 'first', but, rather, multiple Systems and Sectors were hit at the exact same time.

[Manticoran]

Anywhere is the right area for Leviathan. If you're in the Ultima Segmentum, you're fair game.

Spoiler: SPACE SHARKS!!!

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Unlike Kraken and Behemoth, Leviathan didn't attack from the Galactic Rim, hitting Macragge and the Tau Empire first, working inwards, one planet after the next.. Leviathan attacked from underneath the Galaxy, which means that no one target was hit 'first', but, rather, multiple Systems and Sectors were hit at the exact same time.

Right, but I thought Leviathan was still mostly in Segmentum Tempestus rather than Obscurus? You had the big tendril that was going towards Terra that gets crushed, and the second one that gets diverted into dealing with the Orkz in the Ultima Segmentum, so that's the South and East on the Galactic Plane, as where Cryptus is in the North. I didn't think Leviathan hit the WHOLE galactic plane, just was going in at a weird angle compared to everything else.

As for my other mentions, that was mostly talking to the people who were all "This isn't even fair!" about the Tyranids, going "Actually this seems fairly minor, from all description."

[Cheesegear]

Cheesegear Reads: The Shield of Baal

Spoiler: Previously in The Red Scar

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Shield of Baal: Leviathan
Warning
Breach!
Battle of Lysios
Battle of Asphodex
Battle of Ixoi
Battle of Aeros
Battle of Tartoros
The Dragon Strikes
Psychic Escalation
Slayer of Dragons

And now...For the stunning conclusion of Shield of Baal: Leviathan

• All of this has taken place in less than 3 days.
• Cryptus had fallen faster than the previous four Systems. So...The Imperium already knew about the Cryptoid Tendril, from four other Systems that had fallen before...That we're only just hearing about now? On the very last page of the book? Wow. Anyway, it's heavily implied that from the previous four Systems, this particular Tendril had already learned plenty about the Imperium and had 'hyper-evolved' to meet the challenge. Meanwhile, the Imperium is still using the same technology that they were using ten thousand years ago. To fight the Tyranids properly, you have to adapt almost as fast as they do.
• Because each Hive Fleet is different, even, each Tendril is different, and in addition to the Tyranids' ability to block the Imperium's communications, nearly every single time that the Imperium meets Tyranids, they'll be subtlely different, slightly smarter, etc, etc.
• Of the 40 billion people that populate the System, the Imperium has barely saved one million.
• Ixoi was filled with cloud and spores, the Hive Ships above Ixoi lowered their mouthparts to the planet...
• Asphodex, and the Hive City of Phodia, is overrrun. Augustus Flax has been sighted fleeing back to his underground lair.
• Dhrost...Has disappeared. 98% of Dhrost's command is dead. It is presumed that he killed himself in some dark alley, but, unless someone finds the body...He's MIA, presumed KIA.
• Aeros is lost.
• Tartoros is dead. The only sign of the Imperium still intact is the great solar lens floating in orbit.
• One last, lone Astropathic signal is sent through the Warp. Miraculously, the message is received, and, fortuitously, the recipient of the teleprayer has the will and might to send help to Cryptus. 'By the time the would-be saviours arrived in-system, they would only be dooming themselves.' Cryptus is already lost. It would be kind of pointless to send help now...

The one bright spark of the Invasion is that Lysios is not lost. While pretty much everyone on the planet is dead, the tidal wave crushed everyone and everything that looks like a Tyranid. So, while everyone is dead, the planet is intact, and a new population can be ferried in at the earliest opportunity. Providing that the Invasion can be pushed out of Cryptus, obviously. There are barely one thousand Lysite nomads left.
Magda Grace, herself, was cut down by the very same Lictor that had been following her since Dessecran (a planet mentioned in her backstory). Turns out, that that particular Lictor was just another Lictor that the Hive Fleet created, expended, absorbed and reconstituted a thousand times.
...*Deep breath*
NO. Forge Better Narratives. Here we go...

That's the kind of thing that you base the entire campaign around. Especially if you're going to so far as to tie Grace's backstory into her death. Especially if it just so happens that the Lictor who took her eye about a decade ago is the same one to kill her. Especially if she makes mention that she's killed the same creature almost a dozen times. No. **** it. Here's what you do, morons.

Warning; The Following is writing a better story than what actually happened.

One; It's not a Lictor. It's an Alpha Warrior. No. Better. Go ****ing full Leviathan-mode. Alpha. Everything. The Cryptoid Tendril is led by an Alpha Shrike. You want better Fliers? Make a God-damned Alpha Shrike as the leader of the swarm. Leviathan means greater Synaptic control. ****ing great. The Alpha Shrike is an ML1 Psyker, and knows Dominion. Maybe throw on a Norn Crown. Give it Maw-Claws. I don't care. "But Cheesegear, Shrikes don't have models, so how would GW make an Alpha Shrike?" ...I don't know and I don't care. If you want to make that argument, then GW should have removed Shrikes from the Codex. They didn't. Therefore, anything based on Shrikes should be fair game. Thanks to getting shot in the head so many times, he's evolved a face-plate.

Spoiler: Artist's Rendition

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PROTIP: Don't get shot in the head.

****. Then you friggin' throw it on Lysios. Holy crap. It's got wings, and claws that will rip your head off. The Dragon of Cryptus. You've done it! You've made an actual Dragon. You've got your antagonist. The Slayer of Angels. Using his Maw-Claws he's ripped apart Seraphim like they're nothing. The Dragon has tangled with Grace before, and took her eyeball. If this organism is going to fight Magda Grace a dozen or so times, he racks up Preferred Enemy (Sororitas). He, himself, has evolved to kill Sisters, and not much else. Fan-tucking-fastic.

Those nightmares that Grace keeps having? That's the Hive Mind tracking her. We, the readers, know that Tyranids are greatly attracted to Warp-signatures. What makes Grace so special? Why would the Hive Mind evolve an organism specifically to kill her? Why? It doesn't make any sense. If you're going to keep throwing the same Lictor organism at Grace for a dozen times, you need to have a reason. PLOT. DO YOU WRITE IT!? THIS IS CALLED FORESHADOWING! You can't have things do things for no reason. Especially if they don't make sense.

Under the Eyes of Cryptus, The Dragon uses his Dominion power to convert people to The Cult of the Dragon. Similar to a Genestealer Patriarch/Broodlord using their pseudo-hypnotic powers get humans to do what they want, The Dragon does the same thing. It helps that The Dragon of Cryptus can turn the sky purple-black seemingly at will, blocking out the Eyes of Cryptus. The Hive Mind has seen this 'Imperial Cult', and will turn the Humans' own need for something greater than themselves to be their undoing.

Then, to make it extra terrifying, Tyranids have tongues, they have teeth. They don't appear to have lips. But that's not a problem. Give the Dragon very, very, very limited speech - the Hive Mind has evolved - like Caesar in those new Planet of the Apes movies. You don't need lips to say 'Kneel!'. Terrifying. Tyranids can talk. Lysites bow before The Dragon. Before you know it, Grace is fighting her way through Cultists - Genestealer and the regular kind.
The Dragon plows his way through Sororitas. The Bane of Angels, unrivaled. He says the one word he knows; Kneel.

Grace, flinching under the Dominion, kneels. The Dragon tastes victory. Grace refuses this outcome. It is anti...Everything. This is not how this ends. Grace screams 'For the Emperor!' and slits up The Dragon. Oh, by the way, this new-and-improved version of Grace uses a Jump Pack. Under the Eyes of Cryptus, in the sky, on wings of fire, Grace duels The Dragon, in full view of everyone. Grace slays The Dragon, but, in turn, she is mortally wounded, and plummets towards the ground. Game over.

Blood Angels arrive. The Dragon has been reformed, better than ever. The Hive Mind has taken the living experiences of The Dragon of Cryptus, and thrown into the body of a Flyrant. The Sanguinor comes out of nowhere to save the day as per usual. But he's not enough. Then, suddenly, the Blood Angel Psykers feel the strongest Warp-presence that they've ever felt... Out of the ashes and into the fire, strides Magda Grace. Clad in golden armour with a sword that burns with the light of The Emperor Himself. A Living Saint. No wonder the Hive Mind was attracted to her, no wonder the Hive Mind needed her dead before she could attain her true power.

Saint Grace, dead-and-reborn, salutes Azkaellon The Sanguinor, and The Sanguinor salutes her right back. Two kindred spirits, bound and united in the light of the Emperor.
Grace moves alongside The Sanguinor. "Let's do this ****!" The Sanguinor nods. They activate their Jump Packs at the same time, sword-points forward. Back-to-back golden badasses, they go to slay The Dragon, who will go with them!?

DAMN IT.
You make one protagonist. Maybe two or three, tops. Then you make an antagonist. I know. You can't relate to Tyranids, and any attempt to try would really only be a disaster and full of fail. But, what you can do, is make the Tyranids memorable. Tyranids can learn, especially in death. Since any single organism in a Tyranid swarm can potentially die over a thousand times and then some, you could easily get a hyper-intelligent warrior-beast (e.g; Swarmlord), that becomes a real PitA for anyone trying to deal with it.

This is so easy. /headesk.

Whatever.
Tune in next time when we delve into Shield of Baal: Deathstorm...