Fifth Edition Binder Class III

[Submortimer]

A simpler modification might be to allow the normal True Strike to be cast bonus action once/long or once/short rest.

It already has a 1/rest ability in spiritual weapon.

I put in a temporary fix: granting a fighting style (twf, gwf, or duelig), but I'm not sure I like that either. Maybe allowing a bonus action attack with any melee weapon you're wielding?

Also, changes to the subclasses have been made. I don't remember what we did to the Empty Vessel ability. Changes are as follows:

• Sealed Fate now gains extra attack at level 7 (it's later than usual, but the only place I could fit it in)
• Occult Fate now gains all three of Prestidigitation, Thaumaturgy, and Druidcraft.
• Occult Fate can bind one additional Minor Spirit.
• Occult Fates 17th level ability allows them to renegotiate an additional time per day.
• Twisted Fate's unnatural weapons ability has been re-written to fit more with 5e design (and is similar to the Warshaper's ability)
• Twisted Fate's 17th level ability changed to match new 3rd level ability
• Most references to the Sorcerer spell list in Eldritch fate changed to Warlock
• Anima casting ability simplified.

To add to that, the Pixie and the Cherub Minor Spirits are up as well.

[WarrentheHero]

I think the minor Spirits offer an inherent strength over all of the other classes.
Because most of them offer you a cantrip and a bonus-action damage source, your ability to deal damage at low levels is tremendous. For example, the Torchling offers you 2d10 per round, and the Frostling gives you 2d8+Xd4, and a slow, per round.

And then there's the Blade Spirit, its own host of strong. I look at that and I see 7 levels of multiclass for free.

• A one-level dip in Fighter for fighting style
• A three-level dip into Cleric for Spiritual Weapon. Admittedly this is once/day
• A three-level dip into Warlock for Pact of Blade.

I do like the idea, definitely. But I'm concerned that the Spirits are each too powerful, and Blade Spirit in particular stands out to me as stronger than its brethren.

One possible fix is to allow them to cast their granted cantrips as a bonus action. This means they can still do other things such as spellcast, attack, etc, but it lessens their guaranteed damage-per-round.
Another thought is to remove the damage as a bonus action and change that to some other bonus action thing. For example, Torchling could give you something similar to a lesser version of Aym's Golden Halo wherein you're wreathed in flames and melee attackers take some small amount of fire damage (d4? Cha mod?).
It should be noted that not all Spirits have this problem. Poltergeist, Will-o'-the-Wisp, Lantern, and Imp stand out in my mind as examples, mainly because they don't have damage cantrips, and so their abilities don't let you just sit in the background and cast spells at things.

I don't have any real thoughts on fixes to Blade Spirit yet, though. One thing that immediately comes to mind is the need to drop the weapon-shifting, as it steps on Warlock's toes and does it a level early. Perhaps keep the shifting property, but make so I can only shift to weapons you are proficient in, and remove the Psychic damage? This way its baseline is not all that great, but it allows you to combo well with certain Vestiges that grant you proficiencies (Andras and Haagenti come to mind). I feel it would still be on the strong side, but it's a step. As for the Fighting Style feature, as I said earlier it's somewhat like a multiclass for free (I don't know anyone who multiclass Fighter because they want Second Wind). Not only that, it can become irrelevant based on what you choose and who your Vestiges are. For example, if you choose GWF, and then decide to bind to Haagenti very often, either the Spirit choice was wasted, or Haagenti isbless powerful because she basically grants one less benefit.

One final question: cab these Spirits be attacked? Some things such as a Lantern or a Poltergeist I can understand not being targrs of attacks, but if I'm an Orc and I saw an Imp run up at me, scratch me, and run back, I'd want an opportunity attack, as well as to actually attack the thing. Same can be said for Hell Hound, Pixie, Cherub, All of the -Lings, and any other ones that look like critters. And if they can't be attacked, what happens if they "get hit"? Does the Blade pass through them? Are they unaffected by that fireball?

Overall I like the look and feel of this feature, but it's definitely in overdrive right now.

[Submortimer]

I think the minor Spirits offer an inherent strength over all of the other classes.
Because most of them offer you a cantrip and a bonus-action damage source, your ability to deal damage at low levels is tremendous. For example, the Torchling offers you 2d10 per round, and the Frostling gives you 2d8+Xd4, and a slow, per round.

And then there's the Blade Spirit, its own host of strong. I look at that and I see 7 levels of multiclass for free.

• A one-level dip in Fighter for fighting style
• A three-level dip into Cleric for Spiritual Weapon. Admittedly this is once/day
• A three-level dip into Warlock for Pact of Blade.

I do like the idea, definitely. But I'm concerned that the Spirits are each too powerful, and Blade Spirit in particular stands out to me as stronger than its brethren.

One possible fix is to allow them to cast their granted cantrips as a bonus action. This means they can still do other things such as spellcast, attack, etc, but it lessens their guaranteed damage-per-round.
Another thought is to remove the damage as a bonus action and change that to some other bonus action thing. For example, Torchling could give you something similar to a lesser version of Aym's Golden Halo wherein you're wreathed in flames and melee attackers take some small amount of fire damage (d4? Cha mod?).
It should be noted that not all Spirits have this problem. Poltergeist, Will-o'-the-Wisp, Lantern, and Imp stand out in my mind as examples, mainly because they don't have damage cantrips, and so their abilities don't let you just sit in the background and cast spells at things.

I don't have any real thoughts on fixes to Blade Spirit yet, though. One thing that immediately comes to mind is the need to drop the weapon-shifting, as it steps on Warlock's toes and does it a level early. Perhaps keep the shifting property, but make so I can only shift to weapons you are proficient in, and remove the Psychic damage? This way its baseline is not all that great, but it allows you to combo well with certain Vestiges that grant you proficiencies (Andras and Haagenti come to mind). I feel it would still be on the strong side, but it's a step. As for the Fighting Style feature, as I said earlier it's somewhat like a multiclass for free (I don't know anyone who multiclass Fighter because they want Second Wind). Not only that, it can become irrelevant based on what you choose and who your Vestiges are. For example, if you choose GWF, and then decide to bind to Haagenti very often, either the Spirit choice was wasted, or Haagenti isbless powerful because she basically grants one less benefit.

One final question: cab these Spirits be attacked? Some things such as a Lantern or a Poltergeist I can understand not being targrs of attacks, but if I'm an Orc and I saw an Imp run up at me, scratch me, and run back, I'd want an opportunity attack, as well as to actually attack the thing. Same can be said for Hell Hound, Pixie, Cherub, All of the -Lings, and any other ones that look like critters. And if they can't be attacked, what happens if they "get hit"? Does the Blade pass through them? Are they unaffected by that fireball?

Overall I like the look and feel of this feature, but it's definitely in overdrive right now.

To answer your question, no, they cannot be damaged or targeted, as is mentioned in the actual class feature description. They are, for all intents and purposes, as substantial as a flaming sphere.

I totally hear your concern about Blade spirit. That's not the final form at all, just a placeholder for now. That's one of the minor spirits that I'm considering level gating (to level 5) to minimize dip abuse, along with Gustling, pixie, and ghost.

I'll admit, it is a hard swing in the other direction. Current playtesting has shown a decided lack in DPR for binders with not as much to make up for it, and almost no bonus action options. I had thought that I could drop the damage of all the bonus action options, but it hasn't seen much in the way of number crunching yet.

Edit: made a few edits to the Minor Spirits. Torchling is still the biggest damage, but the average is now similar to EB + AB (10 vs. 8.5 at level 2, 15.5 vs 19 at level 5). Blade spirit meshes better with Sealed Fate, as was the intent, and has a bonus action damage option that is in line with Polearm Master. Added level gate, and removed bonus psychic damage.

[Scarce]

Look, I want to keep the discussion on properly balancing the Minor Spirits, but I want to point out that some of the subclasses you are modifying are very early versions. I highly recommend you roll-back Occult Fate to this version before you adapt it. Same with Twisted Fate, which is here.

Back to the Minor Spirits:

I think the feature would work better if it wasn't level-gated. After all, once you get to 5th level, it feels like your'e making a sub-optimal decision when you bind something that isn't Prerequisite 5th level, which limits the amount of choice a player feels like they have. My goal would be to get them to the same basic level.

What is blade spirit just added+1d4 to your melee damage as a bonus action? (Also, I'm fine with it's transformation, but it would make sense of it could only form melee weapons you are proficient with.)

Poltergeist should deal bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, as appropriate to the item thrown. Without specifying this, it allows you to throw a decorative painting for slashing damage.

You didn't address Will-o-the-wisp granting advantage. I would suggest that the next attack roll against gains a +1d4 bonus.

If you wanted to drop level gating, Gustling could get Fog Cloud (maybe 1/short) instead of levitate, Pixie could deal 1d4 poison and disguise self 1/short, and Cherub can heal a fixed 10 hit points as a bonus action instead of giving Prayer of Healing.

[Prince Zahn]

It just occurred to me that the Binder thus far gets a lot of resistances. With minor spirits factored in, a fifth level binder might choose to bind with Aym for fire resistance, and with Shax for lightning resistance, and take cold resistance from a frostling, and have his Lantern on standby for any situation where radiant damage might be used against you. Later level vestiges offer resistances to those energies, too (sans radiant) as well as poison and thunder, spell damage, necrotic damage absorption, and resistance to P/B/S damage from nonmagical weapons. Twisted Fate can also grant an immunityresistance to 3 different kinds of damage.
It might be something to look into, because it sounds like a lot of resistances to me.

[Scarce]

It just occurred to me that the Binder thus far gets a lot of resistances. With minor spirits factored in, a fifth level binder might choose to bind with Aym for fire resistance, and with Shax for lightning resistance, and take cold resistance from a frostling, and have his Lantern on standby for any situation where radiant damage might be used against you. Later level vestiges offer resistances to those energies, too (sans radiant) as well as poison and thunder, spell damage, necrotic damage absorption, and resistance to P/B/S damage from nonmagical weapons. Twisted Fate can also grant an immunityresistance to 3 different kinds of damage.
It might be something to look into, because it sounds like a lot of resistances to me.

You might be right, with the recent inclusion of Minor Spirits at least. (Though I suspect it might only be a thing to worry about for high-level design.) It might pay to swap some of the spirit resistances with abilities similar to those granted by races, and to trade Twisted Fate's Impervious for something else.

[Prince Zahn]

You might be right, with the recent inclusion of Minor Spirits at least. (Though I suspect it might only be a thing to worry about for high-level design.) It might pay to swap some of the spirit resistances with abilities similar to those granted by races, and to trade Twisted Fate's Impervious for something else.

On the contrary. Radiant damage again notwithstanding, the resistances gained by minor spirits are given by vestiges as well (eventually, but several in packages), by level 10 you could have resistance to 5 different energies (maybe more) at once and have another minor spirit for a backup resistance if you need it. That is by far more than everyone barring bear totem barbarian (who can only keep it up while raging).

I agree with the notion of similar to those granted by races, but I don't endorse actual Copypasting of racial traits. Keeping to that power though is alright I imagine. Let's see how that goes.

As for swapping impervious, I'm open to suggestions?

[Submortimer]

Look, I want to keep the discussion on properly balancing the Minor Spirits, but I want to point out that some of the subclasses you are modifying are very early versions. I highly recommend you roll-back Occult Fate to this version before you adapt it. Same with Twisted Fate, which is here.

Back to the Minor Spirits:

I think the feature would work better if it wasn't level-gated. After all, once you get to 5th level, it feels like your'e making a sub-optimal decision when you bind something that isn't Prerequisite 5th level, which limits the amount of choice a player feels like they have. My goal would be to get them to the same basic level.

What is blade spirit just added+1d4 to your melee damage as a bonus action? (Also, I'm fine with it's transformation, but it would make sense of it could only form melee weapons you are proficient with.)

Poltergeist should deal bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, as appropriate to the item thrown. Without specifying this, it allows you to throw a decorative painting for slashing damage.

You didn't address Will-o-the-wisp granting advantage. I would suggest that the next attack roll against gains a +1d4 bonus.

If you wanted to drop level gating, Gustling could get Fog Cloud (maybe 1/short) instead of levitate, Pixie could deal 1d4 poison and disguise self 1/short, and Cherub can heal a fixed 10 hit points as a bonus action instead of giving Prayer of Healing.

Huh, good point on the subclasses, though the link for the Occult Fate is broken. I still think unnatural weapon should work similarly to the Warshaper's ability, and that abilities which affect that should change: it fits more with 5e design, and makes it way less cumbersome (not to mention the possible brokenness of getting something like 6 attacks a round mixed with hex or hunters mark).

Onto minor spirits:
I'm fine not level gating them, but it does follow course with something like the Warlock's invocations.

Blade Spirit: if I do something like that, I'll bump the damage up to 1d6. At that point, it is a weaker but always available form of Colossus strike, except that it uses your bonus action.

Poltergeist: that is obviously the intent, but without the micromanaging. I assume that any binder who uses a poltergeist has whatever type of object he needs on hand to do whatever sort of damage he wants. It's needlessly complicated otherwise. Also, I'm pretty certain a poltergeist could cut your head off with a decorative painting...just saying

Will o wisp: I like that idea. Done.

Gustling: I also like that idea. Done.

Pixie: poison damage should always be higher than other types of damage, since SO many things are resistant to it (this is why Poison Spray does a d12 of damage), and im fine with disguise self at will: The level gate was added in arbitrarily, anyways.

Cherub: again, gate added arbitrarily. I chose prayer of healing because, though it heals for a lot, it is strictly out of combat.

Do me a solid and play test the crap out of these things next chance you get.


Also, Zahn, I think the resistance thing will work itself out. It seems like you'd need to plan pretty specifically to get all the resistances you're talking about, and other classes can do it sooner and better (cough bearbearian cough). I don't think it'll end up being an issue.

[Scarce]

Huh, good point on the subclasses, though the link for the Occult Fate is broken.

Fixed.

I still think unnatural weapon should work similarly to the Warshaper's ability, and that abilities which affect that should change: it fits more with 5e design, and makes it way less cumbersome (not to mention the possible brokenness of getting something like 6 attacks a round mixed with hex or hunters mark).

In that case, it might deserve yet another full rewrite.

Do me a solid and play test the crap out of these things next chance you get.

Totally. It was the DM's birthday this week, so the session got cancelled for drunken revelry, but we'll get another chance next week.

[Submortimer]

Totally. It was the DM's birthday this week, so the session got cancelled for drunken revelry, but we'll get another chance next week.

Oh hey, What day? Mine was the 2nd.

[Submortimer]

Alrighty, updated the subclass post to the most recent versions of all 4 final subclasses. Upon further review, Occult fate does not need any changes. All other changes are in place, though I'm still looking at twisted fate.

[Scarce]

Alrighty, updated the subclass post to the most recent versions of all 4 final subclasses. Upon further review, Occult fate does not need any changes. All other changes are in place, though I'm still looking at twisted fate.

Happy Birthday! Ben's birthday was yesterday

Using Warshaper as a template for the Twisted Fate might be a really good idea (bonus action to switch), if you can figure out how to incorporate vestige's natural weapons in it somehow.

[Submortimer]

I'm sure I can, it'll just take me a little bit.

And thanks!

[Prince Zahn]

Also, Zahn, I think the resistance thing will work itself out. It seems like you'd need to plan pretty specifically to get all the resistances you're talking about, and other classes can do it sooner and better (cough bearbearian cough). I don't think it'll end up being an issue.

I know the bearbarian can get that resistance, but I think it's a design issue because you don't actually need to make specific or difficult investments to get resistance to everything that matters, at least not with stronger vestiges. What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the Binder.

[Scarce]

I know the bearbarian can get that resistance, but I think it's a design issue because you don't actually need to make specific or difficult investments to get resistance to everything that matters, at least not with stronger vestiges. What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the Binder.

That's a solid point, but fixing would be a long and complicated process. I think I'm going to wait and see if it presents an actual problem in playtesting before I move to address it. After all, large numbers of resistances could basically help to make up for some of the class's shortcomings.

[Prince Zahn]

That's a solid point, but fixing would be a long and complicated process. I think I'm going to wait and see if it presents an actual problem in playtesting before I move to address it. After all, large numbers of resistances could basically help to make up for some of the class's shortcomings.

Fair enough I merely wanted to point this out.

[WarrentheHero]

I'm wondering about the changes to Occult Fate, specifically the 3rd level ability. Was it really that strong before? I used and it felt natural and fun to have another Vestige option per day. I didn't regard it as being that powerful.

Now we've moved from getting a Vestige (with a chance of Good or Poor Pact) all day to getting them Poor (Good at 13th) for a fee minutes.

Also, the lack of Prestig/Druid/Thaum/Mage Hand cantrips is just another removal of power, and not even "real power". Those cantrips are designed to be nifty at best.

I can understand the general idea of the change, but I'm uncertain it was necessary. What are/were thoughts about this?

[Scarce]

I'm wondering about the changes to Occult Fate, specifically the 3rd level ability. Was it really that strong before? I used and it felt natural and fun to have another Vestige option per day. I didn't regard it as being that powerful.

Now we've moved from getting a Vestige (with a chance of Good or Poor Pact) all day to getting them Poor (Good at 13th) for a fee minutes.

Also, the lack of Prestig/Druid/Thaum/Mage Hand cantrips is just another removal of power, and not even "real power". Those cantrips are designed to be nifty at best.

I can understand the general idea of the change, but I'm uncertain it was necessary. What are/were thoughts about this?

The difference here is a power level thing between the subclasses. When we were build-testing the earlier Occult Fate against the other subclasses, it tended to always get more features and better features earlier than the other subclasses by having another vestige. The newer one (though, granted, it's a few months old now) attempts to focus in on being the best at being a binder, while not outright being better than the other subclasses.

And you still kinda get another vestige, but now it's more strategic and you need to know when to deploy it. You get a single Extra Vestige, with the option to use it as the Empty Vessel or a Shared Vestige instead. This seemed to provide less outstanding power, and in playtesting has thus provided a measure of flexibility that is fun, but by no means too powerful.

Also, this betters fills the thematic niche of being the 'default' or 'beginner' subclass, like the Champion is to the fighter.

[Submortimer]

The difference here is a power level thing between the subclasses. When we were build-testing the earlier Occult Fate against the other subclasses, it tended to always get more features and better features earlier than the other subclasses by having another vestige. The newer one (though, granted, it's a few months old now) attempts to focus in on being the best at being a binder, while not outright being better than the other subclasses.

And you still kinda get another vestige, but now it's more strategic and you need to know when to deploy it. You get a single Extra Vestige, with the option to use it as the Empty Vessel or a Shared Vestige instead. This seemed to provide less outstanding power, and in playtesting has thus provided a measure of flexibility that is fun, but by no means too powerful.

Also, this betters fills the thematic niche of being the 'default' or 'beginner' subclass, like the Champion is to the fighter.

Pretty much this. The Occult Fate is more about versatility than power: you have more vestige options in a given day than any other type of binder, plus you get a zombie pet.

Also, with the inclusion of minor spirits, everyone across the board got a power boost, so the occult fate should be fine.

[Submortimer]

Made a few changes to Twisted fate. I think it works much more cleanly now: anyone who is familiar with Scarce's Warshaper or the spell Alter Self will notice similar text, and that is now by design.

[Submortimer]

Hey all, wanted to keep this guy fresh in everyones mind.

Do we think that there are still changes that need to be made? Are we comfortable with things how they currently are? can we make up a PDF and put it out on the site so that we can get some more extensive playtesting going?

[Scarce]

Hey all, wanted to keep this guy fresh in everyones mind.

Do we think that there are still changes that need to be made? Are we comfortable with things how they currently are? can we make up a PDF and put it out on the site so that we can get some more extensive playtesting going?

Well, I'd be more than happy to work on the PDF, but I'd like to get one more session of playtesting out there before I call things final. By the way, is the gustling intended to have a prereq right now?

[Prince Zahn]

Hey all, wanted to keep this guy fresh in everyones mind.

Do we think that there are still changes that need to be made? Are we comfortable with things how they currently are? can we make up a PDF and put it out on the site so that we can get some more extensive playtesting going?

I don't think I have much to add right now. Looking forward to seeing the PDF I wonder what your blog fans will think about it, guys.

[AirApparent]

Hello all, I'm a big fan of the binder and love how the product has come out.

Considering there is one role I think that a vestige doesn't cover so far, healer, might I propose a Buer workup?

This is just my quick build, feel free to rip it apart, but so far the only ability to heal as a binder is through the cherub spirit.

Spoiler: Buer, Grandmother Huntress, DC 15

Show

Saving Gift:
You can cast the cantrip Spare the Dying.

Healing Gift:
As an action, you may touch a creature to have them regain hit points equal to 3d8 + your spellcasting modifier. This ability has no effect on constructs or undead. Once you have done so, you cannot use this ability again until you complete a short or long rest.
At 11th level, this raises to 5d8 + your spellcasting modifier, and 7d8 + your spellcasting modifier at 15th level

Delay Poison and Disease:
Each ally within 30 feet of has resistance to poison damage and cannot have the poisoned condition for as long as they remain in the area. Furthermore, allies within the area automatically succeed on saves to avoid contracting a disease and are immune to the effects of any disease they are infected with, but only while within the area.

Buer’s Knowledge:
You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks and checks made with the Healing Kit and Herbalist’s kit. You also add your proficiency bonus to Wisdom (Survival) checks made to follow tracks.

Fast Healing:
You regain 1 hit point every round, up to your maximum hit points. This increases to 2 hit points at 13th level, and 3 hit points at 18th level.

Spoiler: Binding Information

Show

LegendLegend: Buer tells many different stories about how she
came to be a vestige, so her true origins remain obscure. In various popular versions of the tales, she is a beautiful elf maiden who fell to evil satyrs, a virtuous human ranger killed by a chimera, or a green hag slain by a lammasu. It’s likely that Buer herself cannot remember who she was in life or what brought her to her current state, and the stories she tells are cobbled together from the shreds of her memory that remain. Regardless of what her true form once was, most binders believe that she possessed great skill as a hunter and healer in life.
Manifestation: Buer’s form is that of a five-branched star, or wheel, composed of satyr legs. She has two faces, one positioned on each side of her wheel-shaped body at the center point where the five legs meet. One face is that of a green hag, and the other is a raging, leonine visage with an unruly mane and beard. Buer constantly moves within her seal, rolling from foot to foot as she traverses its circumference. She always keeps her raging face outward, but she speaks from her green hag face in a friendly manner with a gentle voice. When her body rolls in such a way that her hag face cannot see her summoner, Buer grows frustrated and begins yelling curses at her body.
Sign: Your feet turn into satyr’s hooves, giving you a curious tip-toeing gait. These hooves prevent you from wearing normal boots or shoes, but magic footwear reshapes to fit you.
Influence
Flaw: My memory is poor, and I often briegly forget even familiar information.
Trait: I cannot bring myself to kill living things needlessly, save those that should be hunted

[Scarce]

Hello all, I'm a big fan of the binder and love how the product has come out.

Considering there is one role I think that a vestige doesn't cover so far, healer, might I propose a Buer workup?

This is just my quick build, feel free to rip it apart, but so far the only ability to heal as a binder is through the cherub spirit.

Spoiler: Buer, Grandmother Huntress, DC 15

Show

Saving Gift:
You can cast the cantrip Spare the Dying.

Healing Gift:
As an action, you may touch a creature to have them regain hit points equal to 3d8 + your spellcasting modifier. This ability has no effect on constructs or undead. Once you have done so, you cannot use this ability again until you complete a short or long rest.
At 11th level, this raises to 5d8 + your spellcasting modifier, and 7d8 + your spellcasting modifier at 15th level

Delay Poison and Disease:
Each ally within 30 feet of has resistance to poison damage and cannot have the poisoned condition for as long as they remain in the area. Furthermore, allies within the area automatically succeed on saves to avoid contracting a disease and are immune to the effects of any disease they are infected with, but only while within the area.

Buer’s Knowledge:
You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks and checks made with the Healing Kit and Herbalist’s kit. You also add your proficiency bonus to Wisdom (Survival) checks made to follow tracks.

Fast Healing:
You regain 1 hit point every round, up to your maximum hit points. This increases to 2 hit points at 13th level, and 3 hit points at 18th level.

Spoiler: Binding Information

Show

LegendLegend: Buer tells many different stories about how she
came to be a vestige, so her true origins remain obscure. In various popular versions of the tales, she is a beautiful elf maiden who fell to evil satyrs, a virtuous human ranger killed by a chimera, or a green hag slain by a lammasu. It’s likely that Buer herself cannot remember who she was in life or what brought her to her current state, and the stories she tells are cobbled together from the shreds of her memory that remain. Regardless of what her true form once was, most binders believe that she possessed great skill as a hunter and healer in life.
Manifestation: Buer’s form is that of a five-branched star, or wheel, composed of satyr legs. She has two faces, one positioned on each side of her wheel-shaped body at the center point where the five legs meet. One face is that of a green hag, and the other is a raging, leonine visage with an unruly mane and beard. Buer constantly moves within her seal, rolling from foot to foot as she traverses its circumference. She always keeps her raging face outward, but she speaks from her green hag face in a friendly manner with a gentle voice. When her body rolls in such a way that her hag face cannot see her summoner, Buer grows frustrated and begins yelling curses at her body.
Sign: Your feet turn into satyr’s hooves, giving you a curious tip-toeing gait. These hooves prevent you from wearing normal boots or shoes, but magic footwear reshapes to fit you.
Influence
Flaw: My memory is poor, and I often briegly forget even familiar information.
Trait: I cannot bring myself to kill living things needlessly, save those that should be hunted

Before I actually dig into the mechanics/writing here, we really need to discuss if we want the Binder to be able to magically heal. What do you guys think?

I've been against this because I think that the binder is fundamentally an arcane caster, and wizards, sorcerers, and warlocks can't heal. Even just giving them some way to cast Cure Wounds is a major game-changer.

[JNAProductions]

Erm... Bards. Arcane casters who get Healing Word and Cure Wounds.

And if you don't want them healing, make a similar spell with a higher healing die that only gives THP.

[Prince Zahn]

Erm... Bards. Arcane casters who get Healing Word and Cure Wounds.

And if you don't want them healing, make a similar spell with a higher healing die that only gives THP.

Like False Life?

Where arcane casters go, Bards are the exception to the role. I'm the last person to properly tell you why that is.

I agree that actual healing is not something this iteration of the Binder should be equipped with. If we make a Buer, healing should not be the focus nor intent of it.

[Scarce]

Where arcane casters go, Bards are the exception to the role. I'm the last person to properly tell you why that is.

Something about AD&D druid prerequisites?

I agree that actual healing is not something this iteration of the Binder should be equipped with. If we make a Buer, healing should not be the focus nor intent of it.

Look, I think we need playtesting before we make that call for sure. My worry is that since it's the only source of healing, it has a very high strategic value, possibly more than any of the other vestiges. Healing is just that important in the grand scheme of things. But I will say this: previous playtesting sessions have revealed that this class feels more like a cleric than a sorcerer or a warlock, and that might mean Buer is something worth considering.

Also, AirApparent actually put forth a really, really good draft, so that's already there if we want it. We might be able to balance it if we make Healing Gift apply only to creatures other than yourself and Fast Healing apply only until your are at half your maximum HP. It's rather declawing it, but it keeps things balanced.

I'd love to hear what Submortimer thinks on the subject.

[WarrentheHero]

So just a couple days ago I had a session as an Occult Fate Binder 11/Warlock 2. We're 13th level and most of the party is pretty stupid overpowered, but in thing kept nagging at me as I was playing the new version of Occult Fate: I felt like I had lost my versatility.

The reworking of Extra Vestige means that I had a small variety of 'holdout vestiges' that I could use if I needed to. But when that's not in use, I have 3 Vestiges like everyone else. So I have some versatility present, yeah. But then one of the players at my table asked if I could bind one of my Vestiges to them and I responded with something similar to "No, I might need it later." That bugged me and it wasn't until recently that I realized why. I felt that I had been limited in my subclass to the point where I could enjoy one or another feature, but not both. I could either have a Vestige on-call for myself, or I could bind them to someone else and after 10 minutes become just like any other Binder sans subclass.
Maybe I only feel this way because I started with another note powerful version of the subclass and I'm still just adapting to the change; I'll have to play more sessions to be sure. But to me something just isn't quite right when using one class feature locks me out of using another.

Having said all of that, I understand that versatility doesn't mean "do anything" so much as it means "can do anything" so there isn't an inherent problem with making choices. But at the table I felt that my choices were limiting me, especially when compared to the other subclasses whose features are 'always on'.

I don't have any suggestions at the moment, but I wanted to share my thoughts and experiences about the new Occult Fate.


Concerning things not about the Occult Fate specifically, the Minor Spirits were somewhat useful, though in this particular session we didn't do too much combat so they couldn't properly shine. I did discover that Aoskar's teleport is probably too strong. A free 15-foot teleport as an action, however much you want per day? It's not Misty Step, but in a lot of situations it's roughly equivalent.
I did have a bunch if fun as Zagan; I think he's in the right place. Bonus points because I used his Serpent's Terror on a group of Yuan-Ti, scaring them if themselves.
I was also bound to Ipos for a small while, but that was for roleplay, not combat. I feel like Ronove is the better unarmed Vestige, despite Ipos's bonus action. Having said that, if their two features stack the way I think they do, it looks like a fun combo.

[Submortimer]

On Buer: I'm almost totally fine with this as presented. Having a 1/short rest, single target heal is nowhere near as overpowering as giving a wizard the ability to cast cure wounds. Vestiges do all kinds of crazy things, and healing can certainly be be one of them.

That being said, fast healing should only work while you are below half health: otherwise, it ends up being strictly better than the Champion's 18th level ability.

On Occult Fate: I can understand your hesitation at the lack of personal versatility, but the Occult Fate is designed to be the "Support Caster" of the subclasses. You should always strive to either have a pet or give another character a vestige if at all possible, since that means more vestige powers can be used during a given turn than normal. with your minor spirits, you should have something to do on any given round, and let your minions do all the heavy lifting.

At least, thats how I see it.