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  1. - Top - End - #781
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    The thing about evolution is that it's totally random. No guiding force.

    Mutations just happen. If they happen to make someone even sligtly more likily to reproduce, they get passed on and over the generations.

    As I understand it, from the time of Asura and Indra till the Leaf Village was founded it was basically just endless war between individual clans.

    Indra's descendants have the Sharingan, a power that activates and grows stronger in response to mental and emotional distress.

    Teh Sharingan has dozens of combat applications, vastly increasing the odds of survival and thus reproduction in a war scenario.

    Which means that, while seemingly counterproductive, among Indra's descendants it would be the ones who were most prone to suffering from psychological stress and instability would be the strongest and thus the most likily to not die in battle, and thus the most likily to live long enough to have kids.

    Over the course of a few centuries--especially since the Uchiha probably had a habit of marrying cousins since every Uchiha we see looks very similar and honestly if you're trying to preserve a genetic trait--and every Uchiha is genetically prone to psychological illness from generations of compounded crazy.

    And the Wars didn't stop when the villages were founded. If anything they got worse, and Ninja fights are very high risk, so Uchiha with weaker Sharingan are still more likily to die so the crazy genes compounding keeps going to Sasuke's generation.

    Of course, since the warring is over with most villages being allied and threats being small groups and outside threats coupled with warfare being different, it's likily that Sasuke's descendants won't be selecting for mental instability and this straight might fade with time.

    The fact that future Uchihas won't be inbreeding for at least several generations would help too.
    Another possibility being, the sharingan itself is such an overwhelming positive on the the "survive long enough to reproduce" scale, that even being batspit crazy isnt enough to counteract the sum total of its benefits. As an example of what I mean, if we were absolutely identical in every way, but I am blind, you would estimate that your chances of survival in an uncivilized world are higher than mine, right? I have a significant disadvantage compared to you. However, now assume that my being blind makes me roughly 5x faster, stronger, more durable, and allows me to sense danger like im spiderman. Suddenly the fact that im blind doesnt mean im less likely to survive than you. Its still a big disadvantage as sight is better than no sight, but the other benefits I get more than make up for it.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Ramza your a smart person and I respect that, but I have to break your heart and tell you that your giving people way too much credit by assuming anyone aside from a biologist knows enough about the history of evolutionary theory to actually intentionally write any of those into anything. as well as giving anything but dedicated history nerds any credit about how much they care about outdated theories of evolution and genetic inheritance.
    This is my point! *Laughs* you are giving too much credit that the Naruto storymakers (Kishimoto and now his successor Kodachi plus related company) know how evolution works, and even if they know how it works you assume they care and want to make the rules of evolution (as we understand them today) apply and map onto a fantasy fiction world.

    The whole point of a fantasy fiction world is you have the power of creation, the power of storytelling, the power of narration and you get to decide how the world works.

    And we actually have evidence that rules of genetics as we understand them in our world (evolution plus mendelian inheritance aka the plant guy who figured out dominant and recessive genes) does not apply to the Naruto world.

    For example "bloodline limits" need not be transmitted via blood or body parts but can be transferred merely by unique chakra profiles and these chakra profiles are not transmitted mother and father to daughter and son. Sometimes they are just given from one person to another as strangers, or one person to another as relatives.

    For example.

    Obito sending chakra from the land of the dead (the pure world) to Kakashi and suddenly Kakashi has a bloodline limit even without the magic eyeballs.
    Naruto manifesting bloodline limits that the tail beast have even though he does not have the beast himself inside him anymore, just echos of their chakra the beasts gave him as gifts.
    The whole Asura and Indra chakra reincarnating over time and space where the chakra reincarnates but not the souls themselves with Asura and Indra, and the chakra only reincarnates if the personality / temperament of the reincarnations are similar enough to Asura and Indra.
    So on and so on.

    Furthermore we have bloodline limit users that have a bloodline limit that is not seen for generations such as Kimimaro (bone guy) and Wood Release. Kimimaro as a child is locked up for he manifests the bloodline limit and the head of his clan feared this child and no one of Kimimaro generation of Kaguya had the power only the child had no one living of the Kaguya clan (it was a bloodline of myth.)

    Likewise with wood release most of the wood release users we see are tied to the First Hokage and his DNA in some way with organ / dna grafting yet the same can not be said for Moegi Kazamatsuri (Konohamaru former girl teammate with orange pigtails that stand up. Part of team Ebisu.)

    Now perhaps this is all a double recessive gene required to manifest these bloodline limits in a Mendelian Inheritance fashion. Perhaps but it is unlikely. The more likely thing is we can't just transfer over our real world rules of how the world works onto a fantasy world with magic and magic eyeballs.

    Doing so is motivated reasoning, you are seeing patterns in the raw data that may not exist but you want them to exist..

    -----






    My point is this is fancy fantasy, just turn off your brain and its own memory system of how the world is supposed to work and just take delight into the story and only remember the rules the text itself specifically teaches you as rules that apply to the text.

    We already know from the text itself that fancy eyeball magic and its predecessor that is chakra is a memory system itself and it transfers superpowers, memories, souls, etc completely irrespective of the two memory systems we are familiar with in our human real world which is genes and which is human culture and the lived memory that is human culture. Recently humans have also created other memory devices such as film, audio, writting, so on and so on, but magic chakra is so much a better memory system per the text.

    And this memory system modifies your phenotype, your exposed traits, the observed characteristics you manifest to the external world.

    A wizard did it. Accept that.

    -----

    I apologize if I am a little too intense in this thread recently. Fantasy is supposed to be fun.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    This is my point! *Laughs* you are giving too much credit that the Naruto storymakers (Kishimoto and now his successor Kodachi plus related company) know how evolution works, and even if they know how it works you assume they care and want to make the rules of evolution (as we understand them today) apply and map onto a fantasy fiction world.

    The whole point of a fantasy fiction world is you have the power of creation, the power of storytelling, the power of narration and you get to decide how the world works.

    And we actually have evidence that rules of genetics as we understand them in our world (evolution plus mendelian inheritance aka the plant guy who figured out dominant and recessive genes) does not apply to the Naruto world.

    For example "bloodline limits" need not be transmitted via blood or body parts but can be transferred merely by unique chakra profiles and these chakra profiles are not transmitted mother and father to daughter and son. Sometimes they are just given from one person to another as strangers, or one person to another as relatives.

    For example.

    Obito sending chakra from the land of the dead (the pure world) to Kakashi and suddenly Kakashi has a bloodline limit even without the magic eyeballs.
    Naruto manifesting bloodline limits that the tail beast have even though he does not have the beast himself inside him anymore, just echos of their chakra the beasts gave him as gifts.
    The whole Asura and Indra chakra reincarnating over time and space where the chakra reincarnates but not the souls themselves with Asura and Indra, and the chakra only reincarnates if the personality / temperament of the reincarnations are similar enough to Asura and Indra.
    So on and so on.

    Furthermore we have bloodline limit users that have a bloodline limit that is not seen for generations such as Kimimaro (bone guy) and Wood Release. Kimimaro as a child is locked up for he manifests the bloodline limit and the head of his clan feared this child and no one of Kimimaro generation of Kaguya had the power only the child had no one living of the Kaguya clan (it was a bloodline of myth.)

    Likewise with wood release most of the wood release users we see are tied to the First Hokage and his DNA in some way with organ / dna grafting yet the same can not be said for Moegi Kazamatsuri (Konohamaru former girl teammate with orange pigtails that stand up. Part of team Ebisu.)

    Now perhaps this is all a double recessive gene required to manifest these bloodline limits in a Mendelian Inheritance fashion. Perhaps but it is unlikely. The more likely thing is we can't just transfer over our real world rules of how the world works onto a fantasy world with magic and magic eyeballs.

    Doing so is motivated reasoning, you are seeing patterns in the raw data that may not exist but you want them to exist..
    1. Thats just high level Sharingan hax. Itachi has transferred stuff to Sasuke through pure magic before using the Sharingan, like a program before. he did when he died the first time.

    2. that bijuu hax. you expect incredibly powerful pure chakra entities to work the same as they do humans? they're practically divine creatures of myth, and when divinities get involved metaphysics often enters an Air State where anything can happen. as opposed to the usual state of metaphysics when magic is involved which is a liquid state

    3. the reincarnation involved the ghost of Sage of the six Paths- you know, one of the most hax beings in this entire franchise- empowering them with halves of his chakra. not exactly getting them from their own souls. the power of Hagoromo Ostusuki is not Indra or Asura. also kind of probably air state metaphysics going on here.

    4. Kimimaro: there are such a thing as dormant genes and genetic traits skipping generations, it happens
    Moegi: that is in Boruto, where people have figured out how to put every Jutsu onto a kote, and technology and knowledge have advanced significantly. it could simply be advancements in figuring out how to combine chakra natures using hand signs alone, and there is no reason why people wouldn't want to implant Moegi with hashirama cells if they had the technology, and Orochimaru is the one who figured it out and still alive to do it today, so he could've totally given Moegi some of that hashirama goodness. and Yamato (y'know the wood user that Orochimaru's experiments managed to be successful on?) is still alive in Boruto, so there is still a living sample of hashirama cells being used and can be harvested from to transfer to others.

    I'm not denying there is wizards doing things, but there should be more nuance in what kind of doing is happening, and better measurement of how bull**** that "did it" is. quite simply I found this a good measurement:

    Solid State metaphysics: real world physics, no change
    Liquid State metaphysics: the world when magic is introduced, gaining less consistency but more flexibility, but still has rules it follows
    Air State metaphysics: the magic goes high level and physics goes wonky not much consistency or rules involved
    Plasma state metaphysics: too much magic, everything disintegrates or dies. nothing can survive at this level of magic.

    we don't need resort to air state metaphysics assumptions when there liquid state metaphysics explanations. you don't need to resort to liquid state metaphysics explanations when we have a solid state metaphysics explanation, and a liquid state thing can still follow a solid state rule.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Why are you trying to force your level of hard magic or soft magic onto a story written who has not revealed his preference? Craving consistency and predictability **with how you define consistency and predictability** on a writter who has not announced this is an absurd endeavor.

    You are trying to make your subjective perceptions and subjective logic into totalitarian essential universal and thus object rules. Well fiction does not work that way.

    Magic can be many things the writer gets to choose.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Why are you trying to force your level of hard magic or soft magic onto a story written who has not revealed his preference? Craving consistency and predictability **with how you define consistency and predictability** on a writter who has not announced this is an absurd endeavor.

    You are trying to make your subjective perceptions and subjective logic into totalitarian essential universal and thus object rules. Well fiction does not work that way.

    Magic can be many things the writer gets to choose.
    I'm not. why are your trying to force yours with "a wizard did it"? ninjas aren't wizards.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    this is nuts as you guys acting like car with broken with breaks speeding down hill carrying nitroglycerinslow down will ya.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    this is nuts as you guys acting like car with broken with breaks speeding down hill carrying nitroglycerinslow down will ya.
    So in this metaphor, I am Deidara and Lord Raziere is Sasori, correct?

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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    I'm not. why are your trying to force yours with "a wizard did it"? ninjas aren't wizards.
    Right. The guys who are flinging spells around like it's going out of style aren't wizards*.

    If they walk like a duck and talk like a duck I'm calling a ninja a wizard.
    Mage.
    Caster.
    Whatever.

    *Okay, the sorcerer class might be a better way to represent them, but that's beside the point.
    Last edited by Kantaki; 2019-06-11 at 04:45 PM.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    So in this metaphor, I am Deidara and Lord Raziere is Sasori, correct?

    Art is a bang! 💥
    eh it fits. I do have red hair after all, and I would rather be ageless than a bomb idiot.

    @ Kantaki: that is a western biased term, sir. please stop forcing this western culture ideal of magic upon shows, especially anime ones. they're like the worst term for what they do. it makes them sound as if they're from harry potter, and I honestly? dislike harry potter. the anime is cooler than harry potter and deserves to be cooler than that. its like, the stupidest memetic idiocy to refer to all magic as wizards.

    this is honestly why I hate memes. they are just mindless reductionism in joke form. now know what I am truly rebelling against in this world: memes. the greatest symbol of mindlessness and thoughtlessness this world has ever seen. maybe for once, a wizard didn't do it, huh, because wizards aren't a thing in that universe, perhaps wizards aren't even a word that means anything to them, perhaps referring to everything by lowest common denominator term you can think of should be taken out back and shot in the head like the lazy stupidity that it freaking is, and perhaps all memes should die, because they serve no freaking purpose and are just ignorance incarnate.

    so screw your laziness and refer to them as freaking ninja and jutsu because thats what they're named as, if you don't care enough to be that lazy, then why are you even here? stop poisoning discussion with lazy thoughtless memes.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    eh it fits. I do have red hair after all, and I would rather be ageless than a bomb idiot.
    Hey Deidara is a bomb idiot that knows his Zen Buddhism. He shouts Katsu 喝 all the time after all.

    Katsu 喝 means to shout or to yell. Buddhist teachers sometimes yell this at students much like in martial arts you may yell the similar sound Kiai when making an attack. (In Katsu the u is silent, note how to pronunce this symbol is very different in other asian languages such as Cantonese.)

    The idea is that Katsu, to yell, to shout, may focus one's attention as an individual or as a teacher to a student one may yell it disrupt your attention when you are doing a bad logic. It is not supposed to be a pleasant sound, it by itself is not a road to enlightenment, but the proper timing it can be a corrective 💥. Art is a bang! Katsu 喝 !

    Also Katsu is sometimes invoked in death poems, not poems that celebrate death but instead poems that show the transition between life and death and to emphasize that this transition occurs. Death poems often have a dark humor or a crashness to remind people that of the beauty of life, but also life is not eternal, this too shall pass and all that jazz.

    Aka there is a reason why Deidara uses the Seal of Confrontation with his Katsu 喝 all the time, and not the partner Seal of Reconciliation to signify the fight / conflict has ended and peach has begun.

    We speak highly of Madara and Hashirama, but not of the loudmouth bomb idiot. When in reality they were much alike.

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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Hey Deidara is a bomb idiot that knows his Zen Buddhism. He shouts Katsu 喝 all the time after all.
    ah yes that thing that doesn't exist because the hypothetical people that believe in it believe they don't either. I only talk about people that exist, and aren't dreams because they believe in a hypothetical religion that thinks all including themselves is a dream.

    sure is nice existing rather than being a hypothetical bomb idiot that doesn't and never did exist even in within their own fictional universe. I however respect even things that only hypothetically exist, like orcs, or buddhists. its their hypothetical culture after all, and if they don't want to say they exist, I will respect that if the situation ever comes up.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    @Raziere: Well, excuse me for my culture influencing my terminology*.
    Not going to look up new vocabulary past midnight...

    But really, the word ninja seems to imply a certain degree of sneaky assassin-ness, while Naruto and friends (and foes) are... not.
    Magic-users how ever you want to call them it the better description.
    If you say ninja I'll punch my screen...

    *Well, not really.
    It's not like I'm typing in german after all.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    I wonder if you could make for an interesting shounen where the ninja act like stealthy killers all the time? Could you manage to create an air of tension and drama as both enemies try to sneak up on the other while setting a trap in case they get snuck up on? Could we demonstrate a proper power creep for this sort of genre when the goal is to be silent and deadly? Where a single effective strike with no warning is the peak of skill? Like sure, flashy fireballs and lightning dragons are cool and awesome and neat, but watching a fight where you are never sure when the opponent will show up behind the character and slit their throat could cause for some epic fake outs and dramatic moments.

    Picture it like this, we go back to the wave arc, the mist is natural. Suddenly with only an instants warning a massive zanbatou comes flying out of the mist. Kakashi makes everyone duck for cover, and silently motions the students to hide with the client. They look up at where the sword collided with the tree, but its already gone. Now the game of cat and mouse begins. Team seven has scattered so they can hide easier, nobody is sure who is alive, who is dead, or where the next attack will come from. Naruto is setting up trip wires and snares as quietly as possible along with noise makers for warning if the enemy approaches, sasuke is thinking he is hard enough to sneak up on the mystery killer, kakashi is trying to make sure he doesnt lose track of the killer so he can sneak past and murder the client and/or his students, and sakura is shaking in her little hiding spot, hoping tazuna doesnt make a peep and get them both killed. The tension is spooled up so high its unbearable, every shift of grass is a jump scare the people involved are desperately trying not to perform. Kakashi is thinking, "Is that zabuza hiding there? Or is it a trick? If its him I can kill him now, if im wrong I leave myself open, or even worse, my client/students." We hear a quiet gasp, a slicing sound, then silence again. Who was just killed? Is it over?
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    ah yes that thing that doesn't exist because the hypothetical people that believe in it believe they don't either. I only talk about people that exist, and aren't dreams because they believe in a hypothetical religion that thinks all including themselves is a dream.

    sure is nice existing rather than being a hypothetical bomb idiot that doesn't and never did exist even in within their own fictional universe. I however respect even things that only hypothetically exist, like orcs, or buddhists. its their hypothetical culture after all, and if they don't want to say they exist, I will respect that if the situation ever comes up.
    And you do not get my criticism.

    There are layers of Canon.

    Things that are stated flat out in the text. Diegeticallyto narrate from a source that is impeachable.
    Secondary Sources like databooks.
    Things that are stated flat out in the text. Diegeticallyto narrate from a source that may be trustworthy or may be not trustworthy.
    Things that are stated flat out in the text. Diegeticallyto narrate from a source that is unreliable.
    References that do not impact the mechanics of the world.
    The User filling in the blanks with things unsaid.

    The bolded, italics thing is always theory and never "knowledge" as in "to know", you filling in the blanks is drawing assumptions. This is how the human brain works, we need pattern recognition to organize data, but when we use pattern recognition it is always an ambiguous state.



    Is this a Rabbit or a Duck? Is it Rabbit Season or Duck Season?

    -----

    I have no problem with you having your theories, your fan canon inside your head. We all need fan canon to tell a story that is ambiguous. I do have a problem when you say this is the one true way, and the only way it would make sense, for in the theory of evolution, and using evolutionary principles magic is genetic and how these genes are passed down are like how all other phenotypes are passed down.

    Sorry but that is fan canon, and my problem is not with you making it but being snide and saying this is the only way things can possibly work. That is you assuming the power of the storyteller when you are not. This is gatekeeping.

    And it is not even good gatekeeping for you are kind of wrong on the details, Naruto plays fast and loose with the idea of what is genetic and what is not, and how genes influence phenotype.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Snip
    That sounds awesome.
    I totally would watch that version.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    That sounds awesome.
    I totally would watch that version.
    Yeah as a stand alone it sounds awesome, im just not sure you could build a series around it. How many ways can the stealth battle be interesting before it gets repetitive? You might have to be willing to actually kill main characters sometimes just so the suspense is real.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    I can deflate that concept (for Naruto, at least) with but five words: Might Guy and Rock Lee.



    I suppose you could just go all, Prnce of Tennis or whatever, and just go totally off the rails with it (note, I know of this only via clips and hearsay, I would never willing watch a sports program, real or fictional, not matter how silly).



    Equestria Girls Friendship Games that I have literally just finished watching doesn't count, it's not a sports program, it's a human-pony-program that happens to vaguely involve competition at some point, hush.

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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    So in this metaphor, I am Deidara and Lord Raziere is Sasori, correct?

    Art is a bang! 💥
    no you two are married couple in the wheels arguing something like cat herding while fighting over last piece of potato chip in the bag.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    I can deflate that concept (for Naruto, at least) with but five words: Might Guy and Rock Lee.



    I suppose you could just go all, Prnce of Tennis or whatever, and just go totally off the rails with it (note, I know of this only via clips and hearsay, I would never willing watch a sports program, real or fictional, not matter how silly).



    Equestria Girls Friendship Games that I have literally just finished watching doesn't count, it's not a sports program, it's a human-pony-program that happens to vaguely involve competition at some point, hush.
    Oh yeah, them. They... they didnt last long in the ninja program. I like to think that both washed out of training due to an inability to stfu, but rock lee might have been passed through due to the need to increase numbers in the years after the stealthy mountain sized 9 tailed fox snuck into konoha and leveled it. Quietly of course. /nod
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  20. - Top - End - #800
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    I do feel like you can reasonably call ninjutsu and genjutsu "ninja magic" if you really want. They're not wizards of course, but they do use an inner energy source to cast spell-like abilities.


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  21. - Top - End - #801
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    I literally made a Naruto ninja in 3.x by having a cleric reflavoured plus a two or three levels of monk.

    (Were there likely more representative ways of making a Naruto ninja in D&D? Oh, certainly, but that wasn't the point.)

  22. - Top - End - #802
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Yeah as a stand alone it sounds awesome, im just not sure you could build a series around it. How many ways can the stealth battle be interesting before it gets repetitive? You might have to be willing to actually kill main characters sometimes just so the suspense is real.
    I mean, it's not as if regular Naruto is any less repetitive.

    But, yeah. I guess the best way would be somewhere halfway.
    So there are jutsu, but mostly stealth/illusion/misdirection ones.
    With flashy techniques being a rare exemption.
    Trump cards and last resorts, not the standard.
    Well... unless you're Deidara.
    Can't see him as anything not a crazy bomber.

    Someone like Kakashi would probably be famous for pulling of ambushes despite the ludicrous flashiness of his chidori.
    Same goes for Guy and Lee with enough physical power that they frankly don't need much in the way of tricks.

    And of course... Naruto.
    Although he actually is surprisingly stealthy all things considered...
    Refuge in audacity for the win?
    No, seriously, I would keep Naruto mostly as he is for a more stealth focused series.
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  23. - Top - End - #803
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    see, my way of fixing Naruto wouldn't really be.....more stealth specifically by itself....it would be there, but that isn't the point.the concept of ninjas wielding magic is fine, its just that Naruto uses the magic all wrong for ninja purposes.

    ignore chidori, look at Sasuke's great fireball technique. look all these big powerful destructive jutsu thrown around. why the heck would they have these techniques in the first place?

    my elemental ninjutsu would have them do more with less. earth user? is someone who picks up a pebble and uses a jutsu to accelerate it to bullet speeds to snipe you. a water user is someone who drowns you with your own drink. an wind user is someone who just suffocates you. fire user is just the earth user but with a candle flame or a wind user with smoke. a lightning user can just kill you with an overcharged taser touch or metal wire, not this chidori nonsense.

    just a bunch of assassination techniques that you need things like clone jutsu and replacement jutsu to defend against them or your just instantly dead. and that more destructive stuff is more for smoking you out of hiding or when minimalist assassination techniques fail.

    and then there is unlimited yet unrealized potential of genjutsu. and not just for combat- but for a lot of things that are incredibly important for being a spy and such.

    like think of espionage ninja flick as an anime. that the ninjas are irregulars and guerrilla style fighters and so on, because the way Traab describes stealth is boring, and doesn't capture how truly awesome it could be, think less "everyone is someone trying to sneak and stab someone else" and more "oh frack any ninja could potentially be a sniper without a gun, anything you hear, see, taste, or feel could be illusion to distract or fool you, oh frack are they filling the room with gas? GET OUT! *suddenly chokes, dies and poofs* OH FRACK THEY GOT A WIND USER, TAKE COVER! where is he captain!? I don't know, gotta smoke out, do something to get them out of hiding" y'know, ninjas meet vietnam war.
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2019-06-12 at 12:35 PM.
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  24. - Top - End - #804
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Bleakbane Catches Up With Naruto


    Heeeere's Bleakbane!

    (As if a concurrent Bleakbane plays wasn't enough to upset everyone with...!)

    Where were we?

    Oh yeah, that's right, a Sasuke who went from quite good to more insane than canon Sasuke more or less on the proverbial penny...



    Leaving the Village

    So, Sasuke konks out Izumu and Tetsuo as he leaves the village for power, because this Sasuke is completely bonkers.

    Kakashi shows up and... Wow, goes down like a sack of wet potatoes. Really, Kakashi, you didn't think to take some genjutsu precautions...?

    In the hospital, Sakura overhears the Third, Forth and Tsunade de-briefing Kakashi. Minato orders a lock-down, because the Uchiha really don't need this right now.

    Oh crap. Sakura runs right off to...

    ...Apparently see Shikamaru, who calles the rest of the Twelve together.

    Huh. That's... Really sensible, actually!

    Nauto is of course off after Sasuke, and Shikamru decides to... Go with him on his own.

    Really. The whole rest of the konoha twelve are there and you pair are going on your own?

    *skullpalm*

    So, off they go, sneaking out via Kiba's secret Akamaru-walking tunnel.

    Minato waves off Kushina's concern Naruto is not home. Oh BOY is he going to regret that SO MUCH later. He is going to be on the couch for weeks.

    Meanwhile FRACKING DANZO is of course sending Root ANBU to make sure Sasuke gets to Roachy and kill anyone trying to stop him. BECAUSE OF COURSE HE IS.

    And... Um... If the hairstyles are not misleading, Yugao and Anko are Foundation?!

    Uh... What...

    The Not-ANBU, nevermind how close Naruto and Shika are actually getting, decide to murder them. Fortunately, Team Gai arrives, because Neji spotted them because Neji is frickin' awesome.

    Shika pretty quickly figures these guys are aiming to kill, and thus can't be working for the hokage...



    Pursuers

    This episode brings us to the start of volume 35 of the DVD. Notable, because 38 should be the last. (Volume 37, out in about three days, actually, is up to all but the last 14 episodes). So the end is very much in sight!



    We start out with Deidara blowing aload of sand nin up, to the annoyance of Hidan, Kakazu and Zetsu, since they wanted them intact... for reasons. Bickering ensues.

    Meanwhile, Naruto yanks off the mask of the ANBU facing him and yes, it's Anko. (WHAT THE HELL, TSUNADE'S SUBCONSCIOUS! Anko would NEVER!)

    Shikamaru grabs Naruto and yells at everyone to run. He says they shouldn't waste time on one-on-one fights. Hahahahahaha, shots fired, finally someone wised up and you're going to break this up into one-on-one fights like the last Sasuke retreival arc anyway, aren't you?

    Yes, yes, you are. Lee is first, dropping back to tackle one of the sword wielders th... OH COME ON?! Hayate?! How... How does Tsunade even know he was sick? He died well before she came back!

    Ah well, Lee goes fifth gate and... Cut to Naruto doing the tired "I'm gonna get you back Sasuke!" thing.

    We briefly cut back to the Akastuki, now joined by Sasori, handing in the bodies. Hidan is still well-peeved at Deidara (and, to be fair, with good reason), but Sasori point out (via flashback) that Deidara throwing a fit of pique over that village mission and blowing up the "village" (so THAt was what happened!) and Yahiko allowed them to easily con Nagato and Konan with one of Minato's kunai into joining them. Because Nagato and Konan are FRACKING STUPID.

    Akatsuki is trying to increase its military might, but Sasori doesn't know why. (Guess they ain't after the tailed beasts, so what they are up to is a mystery.)

    Back at the chase, its now Tenten's turn to grab a massive long whip (... No, no, I'm just going to leave that one) and drag Yugao into a fight. Tenten isn't doing bad, considering she's up against a top Foundation ANBU and is only a chunin (hah, shows what Tsunande's subconscious thinks, don't it?) and she's only got a handful of scrolls, and Yugao slashes her penultimate one apart.

    And then, using her last scroll, Tenten straight-up no-sell blocks Yugao launches her Moonlit Night attack - with a fracking frying pan!

    Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    Oh Lichemaster, Tenten, you are the [expletiving] BEST, you really are!

    Sasuke has almost reached Roachy, where he is likely to be eated.



    Collision

    Sasuke and Roachy are in a big tower, reached by a rope bridge. It's here that it becomes Neji's turn to be the delaying action against Anko and the other Root Anbu, who - crap, it's Sai! (Well, at least that makes SENSE.)

    Whiel Sai flies overhead after Shikamaru and Naruto, Anko attacks Neji, from with the range of his eight trigrams, and the last we see is her getting the excrement kicked out of her, because she's fighting Neji Fracking Hyuga.

    Shikamaru attempts to hold Sai with Shadow Possession, while Naruto legs it up toward the roof. Sai is like "this is nothing personal, just doing my. By the way, did you happen to look at the weather forecast, it's cloudly with a chance of rain."

    Oh crapbaskets. No more shadow. Shikamaru is like, "well. [Excerement.]"

    Up top, Orochimaru and Sasuke meet. Roachy is all "and what do you want?"

    And Sasuke replies with "the power to hold the world in my fist." Actual quote, or as close to it as I can.

    Wow. I mean. That... Wow. Dude is absolutely complete fracking bonkers, but I can almost respect that.

    Naruto is interrupted by erstatz-Kimmimaro, only it's... Tenzo? What the what? That... Makes rather LESS sense, since Tenzo was Kakashi'd before the divergeance point, wasn't he?

    Roachy bites Sasuke and gives him the curse mark...

    Naruto just goes four-tails. Tenzo tries to hold him with the tailed-beats suppressing thing, but Naruto amps up to five tails and blasts through the jutsu - and Tenzo - like it was made of cheese, tells Kurama to get knotted, switches tailed mode off, and he's healed fully before he's up the stairs.

    Sadly, Sasuke has already mastered the curse-seal in, like five minutes without going unconscious. For reasons.

    Naruto tries his best to talk Sasuke down, but Sasuke is all, I'mma kill your face. So Naruto goes Sage mode. Sasuke dodges the punch and gets all cocky until the WIND from the impact smacks him around. Haha!

    This doesn't last though since Naruto times out and Sasuke is still not listening to reason. They end up in a Kirin-verses-Rasanshuriken... Which itself ends with Sasuke putting his fist through Naruto's left lung. This doesn't really phaze Naruto (I mean, seriously, he's had worse) and he keeps on trying to talk Sasuke down, saying they are even more then same than in canon, and Naruto basically looked up to Sasuke and made him his rolemodel, blah blah blah.

    Sasuke, is astonishingly self-entitledly going "why couldn't you stay weak! How dare you be good at stuff! I alone should be the most powerfullest!" the in most jaw-droppingly arrogant and a just... Impressive level of the terrible-twos.

    Naruto finally says, "right, fine." He grabs some tailed power, just heals off the three-four inch hole in his chest in about two seconds (I said he'd be fine didn't I?) and then they do the whole rasangan verses chidori thing like they always do, which is kind of a come down from the previous, more powerful attack thing. They leap towards each other yelling, as per usual - *yawn* - this is so over-repeated that it and then Surprise Itachi Appears and Takes the Chidoi!

    What the what!?

    UNHOLY FRACKING CRAP!

    I did not see that coming.

    So, Itachi is like "be nice to my little brother Naruto" and then poofs into a cloud of light (what-the-what? again) and they continue their attacks because they are in mid-leap, but suddenly both are in fracking shock.

    Cue a big ball of wierd crap that appears, Sasuke's headband gets scraped (Naruto chucked it at him just before the exchange) and then we see Sasuke standing over Naruto's body WHAT ARE YOU KIDDING ME HOW THE FRACK DID HE oh, right, he has manky-yoyo sharigarn now.

    Nice job, Itachi, you made him stronger! You can never manage not to frack it up can you? You are SO BAD at this.

    Oricimaru is like, "whelp, that was fun!" and we end with Sasuke stomping off into the woods.

    This is wierd, I wonder where they're going with this, since we're post-timeskip, so...



    Well, next episode looks like Pain's attack on the village, so its not hanging around.



    The arc is back to being really good, aside from Sasuke's utterly insane alignment flip. This Sasuke is out-and-out unquestionably Evil, even by canonSasuke's low standards! - but it takes reuge in the sheer audacity of Sasuke's arrogance such that it's actually more watchable than mopey Sasuke. You can't quite beleive how bonkers it is, but that makes it sort of engaging.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-07-12 at 08:08 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #805
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    True. Kitten-kicking Evil Sasuke is definitely more fun to watch.
    But also even dumber.

    I mean at least with Emo-Sasuke I can understand how- or at least why -he came to his scewed up conclusions*, even if I don't agree with them.

    Kitten-kicker-Sasuke just comes off as a powerhungry fool who has no such excuses.


    *At least until he outdoes himself towards the end.
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