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  1. - Top - End - #811
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Wait hold on did the anime literally just have an entire set of episodes that take place in the perfect life cocooons that was just "The entire plot of Naruto part 1 but worse"?

    That's so ****ing stupid especially given what happens directly after this bit. Jesus ****ing hell christ Naruto was bad.


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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Hiruzen's father being named Sasuke is a reference to the folkloric Ninja Sarutobi Sasuke.

    According to legend, Sarutobi(which literally means "Monkey Jump) Sasuke was an orphan raised by a clan of monkeys and thus he developed physical abillities comparable to a monkey's(the Sarutobi clan owning the summoning contract with Enma the Monkey King may likewise be a reference) and was he leader of a (fictional) band of ten ninjas who, in legend, played a major role in the Japanese Civil War.

    Some people claim that Sarutobi Sasuke was completely fictional while others think he might be a fictionalized composite of two historically extant ninjas.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    1Look, my knowledge of Gundam ends at pretty much a couple of Funny Internet Reviewers reviews, that one Gundam Abridged Linkara and Team Four Star did, so you'll have to insert your own Gundamn jokes, Megas XLR is the best I can do...
    Tengen Toppa Puppet Lagann:
    Kankuro breaks free from underground sand village with his puppet mecha, faces various forces and acquires more puppet mechs, add them to make one super puppet mech, but his loses his dearest brother Naruto whose sacrifice brings him both sadness and determination to keep going until he faces the evil overlord Oorchimaru and his mutants who when defeated turns out to be keeping the population of humanity in check to protect them from the galaxy overlord known as Pain trying to kill all beings who can use chakra to keep the universe from being destroyed by them, but with his determination Kankuro along with all his friends defeats Pain with the Tenge Toppa Puppet Lagann.

    Neon Puppet Evangelion:
    Kankuro is called by his father to pilot the puppet evangelions to defeat the tailed beasts, and is joined by Sakura and his emotionless brother Gaara. They defeat them one by one, but it turns they all have big psychological problems, that the puppets are actually artificial tailed beasts locked inside puppet armor, that humanity is the last tailed beast, and this was his fathers plan to cause the rebirth of kaguya and put everyone in a shared dream while they all become chakra as the one united tailed beast so that no loneliness or conflict can ever happen again.

    G Puppet Gundam:
    Kankuro seeks his revenge on his brother Gaara for killing his father and putting his mother in a coma, and walks on an earth has been converted into a giant chuunin exams where puppet ninja mechs compete so that the winning shinobi nation rules all the world in place of warfare, and has to compete so that Neo Sand Village can rule, but along the way he faces various attempts at assassination, the same four rivals repeatedly, his old master jiraiya turning out to be evil, and the feared tailed beast puppet that infects and controls people with its demonic chakra that only through achieving Sage mode that Kankuro can purify people thus freeing them from its influence.

    Gundam Puppet 00:
    Its the future and the shinobi nations have united into three empires across the globe that use fuinjutsu to turn solar energy into chakra to power things across the globe, but warfare still exists between these three powers. Kankuro is apart of the terrorist organization known as the Akatsuki trying to bring peace to the world through a complicated plan devised by a deceased Madara to unite the three empires into one so that humanity is ready when the Otsutsuki Clan will inevitably invade them from space someday.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    By this point in the series I was begging for it all to end. Going over Itachi's backstory from his perspective would have been fine for me but by this point the show has talked about these events a dozen times it felt like.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Shino's dream is finding a new species of beetle big enough to fly on, and laughs manically. Well, that's... Disturbing.
    He's Skitter reborn!
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Wait hold on did the anime literally just have an entire set of episodes that take place in the perfect life cocooons that was just "The entire plot of Naruto part 1 but worse"?

    That's so ****ing stupid especially given what happens directly after this bit. Jesus ****ing hell christ Naruto was bad.
    No. It had a whole bunch of episodes that was a really, really good AU fanfiction of both parts non-massecre with Naruto's parents alive (sort of back-half of part 2 to end) only without Madara and the magic tree nonsense as even the silly bits with EvenMoreBonkers!Sasuke (who didn't have ANY excuses this time) were at least shorter and thus more tolerable than the main show.

    Hell, not only did we NOT have the barely-watchable train-wreck of Pain's backstory and in fact, Nagato's motivation MADE WAY MORE SENSE than in canon.

    And even the stupid parts even make SENSE because it's lensed through Tsunade's subconscious and thus is a case of unreliable narration, which was actually really clever.



    I've said it before and I'll say it again - a goodly chunk of Naruto's filler is better than a goodly chunk of its main plot. (Though I do have to give the show credit, the execution of some of the stupid, stupid ideas is actually good enough to be able to get away with it.)

    No, Naruto's biggest problem is it keeps trying to be deep and meaningful, but it just CANNOT do that, because it equates that with extreme repetativeness and without even an ATTEMPT at subtlely. (This is why the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke became narratively stale AGES ago, because it has been done to DEATH. And why I was kind of bored watching them duke it out again - sorry, but its been there done that a little too often.)

    If you did, like, a Naruto Kai series which just cut out 75% of the flashbacks and didn't try to beat everyone over the head with this "I'M BEING DEEP" it would be markedly improved. (And, yes, you'd keep the filler, much of it is really good.)

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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    No. It had a whole bunch of episodes that was a really, really good AU fanfiction of both parts non-massecre with Naruto's parents alive (sort of back-half of part 2 to end) only without Madara and the magic tree nonsense as even the silly bits with EvenMoreBonkers!Sasuke (who didn't have ANY excuses this time) were at least shorter and thus more tolerable than the main show.

    Hell, not only did we NOT have the barely-watchable train-wreck of Pain's backstory and in fact, Nagato's motivation MADE WAY MORE SENSE than in canon.

    And even the stupid parts even make SENSE because it's lensed through Tsunade's subconscious and thus is a case of unreliable narration, which was actually really clever.
    I found a lot of the early AU stuff to be really good, because it shows how Sasuke's family being around doesn't magically solve all of his problems, nor does Naruto having his family around fundamentally change who he is as a person. I was quite into a lot of the character drama they were doing.

    Then they decided to just drop all that and re-tell the Rescue Sasuke arc from part 1, only without the cool fights. This was the point where I was officially over it and ready to get back to the main plot, terrible as it was.

    Looking at the episode list, the Itachi flashback episodes go on for like, 8 episodes. Have fun with that. I'm pretty sure I watched them, but I really can't remember a damn thing. I think the only thing worthwhile is the recruitment of Hidan into Akatsuki, which was a fun little fight.

    Now that I'm actually staring at the final 100-150 episodes, I'm kind of staggered by just how much filler and flashback material there is.

    I'm curious now. How many episodes are "progress the main plot in the present", and how many are filler, flashbacks, history, or bonus material written after the end of the manga? Let's count! I'm using what Crunchyroll defines as "Season 17" just to give me a neat single page list to go from, so that's from episode 337 onwards.

    I came up with a grand total of 116 episodes out of 163 that meet the criteria above. That's a stunning amount, and looking at the list makes it way more obvious when we get a couple episodes of "actually happening right now" sandwiched between a couple of weeks of history flashbacks. And as Aotrs mentioned, a lot of the fillery flashback stuff is actually not half bad.

    At least now I understand why I felt trapped in a Tsukuyomi waiting for the series to end. You can fit the non-filler entirety of part 1 inside just the flashbacks from a single battle.

  8. - Top - End - #818
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    That's so ****ing stupid especially given what happens directly after this bit. Jesus ****ing hell christ Naruto was bad.
    I would so enjoy a Naruto Anime redone that is Abridged in Length. Literally the length of it could be cut by 60 to 80% and barely anything would be lost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I would so enjoy a Naruto Anime redone that is Abridged in Length. Literally the length of it could be cut by 60 to 80% and barely anything would be lost.
    I want to see a version done with the filler being canon personally. I like the idea of naruto being the source of a true alliance between the elemental nations due to the sheer number of small to mid sized lands he has saved and/or inspired the leaders of. It would be interesting to see narutos support base and how large it grew before the final shinobi war took place. And it helps build up on his world peace plan as well, giving him that much more impact against sasuke and his visions of how to unite the nations because its something already tangible rather than just an idea. And I admit, the idea of naruto with a sort of demi harem is hilarious as all these lady daimyos and such tend to have it bad for him to one extent or another. (Didnt shion pretty much flat out say, "Yo naruto, I want to have your babies, GIVE THEM TO ME!")
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    man finally i mean finaly bleakbane reaches the finish line mark this day folks this is possibly last naruto threat in giant forums whats it gonna be. is he gonna continue series with boruto or like RWBY threat we are gone spin our wheels for next year so we can jump on boruto train. ow boy ow boy i never knew i can see this f ing day as me and the most slow watcher of naruto can talk on same topic.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I want to see a version done with the filler being canon personally. I like the idea of naruto being the source of a true alliance between the elemental nations due to the sheer number of small to mid sized lands he has saved and/or inspired the leaders of. It would be interesting to see narutos support base and how large it grew before the final shinobi war took place. And it helps build up on his world peace plan as well, giving him that much more impact against sasuke and his visions of how to unite the nations because its something already tangible rather than just an idea. And I admit, the idea of naruto with a sort of demi harem is hilarious as all these lady daimyos and such tend to have it bad for him to one extent or another. (Didnt shion pretty much flat out say, "Yo naruto, I want to have your babies, GIVE THEM TO ME!")
    I understand this instinct, but if were to happen I wish 1) they would redo the filler for some of it is completely absurd.

    2nd) I wish the episodes would be labeled similar to how Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex happened where episodes were labeled as Story Episodes and then there is a separate category of Individual / Stand Alone / Filler / Worldbuilding etc.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    New chapter!
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    An actually pretty alright fight between Naruto, Sasuke, and Jigen, who we learn is actually just a vessel for Isshiki, the real power behind all this bull**** moon rabbit demon people. And they lose, Naruto seemingly dying (eventually). We know he's like, gone-gone for EVER due to the flash forward at the start, so like... yeah. Naruto's dead.


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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    New chapter!
    Spoiler
    Show

    An actually pretty alright fight between Naruto, Sasuke, and Jigen, who we learn is actually just a vessel for Isshiki, the real power behind all this bull**** moon rabbit demon people. And they lose, Naruto seemingly dying (eventually). We know he's like, gone-gone for EVER due to the flash forward at the start, so like... yeah. Naruto's dead.
    so new plot is rehashing of orochimaru plot with simple ending change who new we can have binder/ ninja gestalt in narutoverse well this kinda makes things bit interesting as ability to hold souls besides tailed beasts makes plot intresting for me to atleast read and ow boy oh boy danzo was smart to keep gozo tenno project absolute secret as besides kawaki only sumire has similar enough technique to kama to teach boruto how to summon and fight along with kama he has. man plot gets thicker and ticker and we are kinda on the time for kawaki's new hand and regrowing part man. If i was orochimaru i might want to clone another mitsuki right around know as there is way to good material coming in future.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    I just started getting caught up on the Boruto anime, and I came across a particular plot point that I have to rant about.

    Spoiler: Current arc of Boruto anime
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    So, Boruto and Shinki are being chased across the desert by Urashiki. They figure out that Urashiki has gone ahead to cut them off. This is where I started yelling at the TV.

    Shinki: Ah, that's why. There's a river between us and the Land of Fire, and only one bridge.

    Me: So walk across the river, you're ninja.

    Boruto: So he's waiting for us on the bridge, where there's no escape.

    Me: Walk. Across. The River. You. Are. Ninja.

    Gojo: There's another route he doesn't know about.

    Me: YEAH. Anywhere on the river will do, because YOU. ARE. NINJA!.

    Boruto: Someone has to cross the bridge or Urashiki will get suspicious when we don't show.

    Me: WHY!?!?!? YOU CAN CROSS THE RIVER ANYWHERE! Put Chakra on the soles of your feet, walk down the side of the canyon, walk across the water, and walk up the other side! THIS IS NOT DIFFICULT!!! Even if you can't do that simple task, you have a guy that can control Iron Sand with you! BUILD ANOTHER BRIDGE. Have Boruto use his "Boruto Stream" ability to fire Shiki across, it's not that big a river! YOU ARE FREAKING NINJA!


    I don't ask for much from the plots in a show like this, but COME ON.

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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Bleakbane Catches Up With Naruto

    Probably far too late to do this, but I keep getting caught up in either spending all week doing 3.Aotrs rules stuff, or tonight, Frostpunk. (In some degree of fairness, the missions are sufficiently short that once started, it's not worht leaving it half-finished, and Mum went to bed about an hour too late for me not to have started another one.)

    This edition might be, before, a bit brief. (He says.) But mostly, it seems like it's more Chibitachi anyway, so...

    The Pain of Living

    A somehwat bizarre first episode, in which Itachi and his genin team Do A Filler Arc where they have a mission to find and retrive a talking ninja cat (which requires them to wear cat ears). Itachi, of course has no shame and thus it isn't funny. (His female teammate gushes, though.) Itachi, of coruse, does ALL the heavy lifting, over and above even his jonin sensei (talk about well overlevelled...) It's harmless enough watching the doomed doofuses muck around, but there's no way they weren't killed and...

    ...

    Wow, killed off by the end of the episode in flashback, apparently by... Madara or Obito-as-Tobi, I guess, I'm not sure.

    Not even the dignity of some kind of rhyme or reason just "flashback,2 she's dead, sensri is either dead or not there, and male teammate rushing in." Itachi gets his sharingarn.

    Moving on, then...


    Shisui's Request

    Second episod sees Iatchi and Shisui doign a training exercise, both of them showing insane levels of competance. It culminates in them running into a wounded ANBU facing off against three comically Evil (and apparently, emotional) Root ANBU, which Shisui and Itachi absolutely pulverise (especially since Itachi is still a genin.)

    So once again, I am forced to ask, given all these hyper-competany nina around "HY DID NO-ONE UST FRAKING KILL DANZO?!

    Ye GODS, it's the biggest plothole of the entire series!

    Dano isn't remotely subtle! He's not some sneaky political mastermind, he spent YEARS actively working as an enemy of village and everyone just LET HIM. Sarutobi doesn't even get all the blame, the rest of the idiots just gave him a free pass.

    I really, really, REALLY would like to see a re-telling of Naruto, based on the premise that DANZO WAS FREAKING SMOTHERED AT BIRTH or something, because WOW.

    He really IS the series' main villain, forget Madara or Magic Tree Lady, no it's Danzo, and he manages this DESPITE BEING KILLED HALFWAY THROUGH.

    Uuuuuuuurgh.



    Moonlit Night

    And this massive plot hole continues to overshadow everything in the next episode, which coverse the massecre. Given hw INCREDIBLY unsubtle Danzo is, it defires BELIEF how anyone bought his massecre crap. Especially since we know that he wasn't doing it even the for reason so often espoused, "the village" where the ends justifies the means - it was all a calculated plan by Danzo to steal all the sharingarns for himself. (Something the show seems to have forgotten almost, not that it matters with his transpaerently Evil attiude.) The dude tried swiping the damned magic eyes literally more often than OROCHIMARU.

    I cannot possibly believe that wiping out Danzo and his little band of morons wasn't a lower price than massecring the Uchiha. Hell, it would have really just gone a long way to fix everything. It would been been TRIVIALLY easy to show Danzo had been collaborating with the enemy, running his own secret army beholden, not to the village, but Danzo himself and had been directed ostracising the Uchia for the explictly purpose of stealing their eyes. It could have easily swung the Uchiha into the public favour, by painting them as the innocent victims of internal and external manipulation, and it wiuld have the village a lot stronger than what happened.

    Especially as we KNOW that as soonas Danzo popped his clogs, Root/Foundation just completely evaporated. All they had to do to prevent all this was kill ONE GUY, who they all KNEW was literally a traitor who had made repeated attempts on the lives of the village ninja, including the Hokage! It wouldn't even have been hard, the guy was SO BAD as a combatant, the only reason he lasted half an episode against Sasuke was his magic Extra Lives power. And Sasuke at one point KILLED HIM WITH A SHURIKEN, which marks, I think, the ONLY shuriken kill in the ENTIRE SHOW. THAT'S how bad Danzo is!

    It's so STUPID!

    The Magic Tree Stuff makes fra more sense than anyone ever, not killing Danzo out of hand, it really does.

    Anyway, we end with Itachi in the Akatsuki with someone who head Zabuza's sword (eh?) Well, he's a dead 'un next episode.

    (Oh, to my complete lack of surpise Iatchi's little girlfriend Izumi was butchered by Obito during the massecre.)



    You know, I think I'm beginning to geninuely hare Danzo more than Vampires, the Shi'ar, Gladiator and Pain COMBINED, and that's saying something.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-09-29 at 09:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Bleakbane, the reason they didn't kill Danzo is because like, 90% of the "obviously evil stuff" that people could have reasonably known about was filler.

    In fact, I think the only flat out evil thing he did in the open was steal Shinui's eye so he could Shinui's mutant mind-controlling Sharigan for himself.

    It does rais the question of why Orochimaru didn't just bodyjack Danzo. He had to have known that Danzo had Sharingan, it was Orochimaru's technology and research into splicing the Shodai's DNA into people that let Danzo make his horrifying eldritch arm of body horror.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Bleakbane, the reason they didn't kill Danzo is because like, 90% of the "obviously evil stuff" that people could have reasonably known about was filler.

    In fact, I think the only flat out evil thing he did in the open was steal Shinui's eye so he could Shinui's mutant mind-controlling Sharigan for himself.

    It does rais the question of why Orochimaru didn't just bodyjack Danzo. He had to have known that Danzo had Sharingan, it was Orochimaru's technology and research into splicing the Shodai's DNA into people that let Danzo make his horrifying eldritch arm of body horror.
    Orochimaru's body takes on physical traits of the people he body jacks and Danzo is an uggo.


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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    I would assume it was because Danzo was too old.

    As well Danzo's body would have had to have been prepared with a curse seal, so Orichimaru would have to subdue him without killing him or being killed by him, then Danzo would have to survive the preparation. And then Orochimaru would have to immediately begin searching for a new host body Since Danzo it already an elder.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Orochimaru's body takes on physical traits of the people he body jacks and Danzo is an uggo.
    Orochimaru also uses a false skin to look like his original body and any body he possesses eventually turns into a giant snake version of his original body that's made of smaller snakes, disguised as a human by the same false skin.

    What Danzo looks like is irrelevant when by killing one old jackass that nobody would miss, Orochimaru would get his goal of having the Sharingan.

    Hell, we know from Ghost Obito possessing Kakashi that the Chakra of a Sharingan is the only thing you need to have the Sharingan, and we know that Orochimaru essentially absorbs the souls and chakra of the people he body-jacks, well, Danzo would be the ideal person to jack for Orochimaru's goal of learning every Ninjutsu.

    Danzo not only has like, a dozen Sharingan eyes to get eye chakra from, one of which was a mutant Sharingan with extra power and also a Mangkyo, but he also has Senju DNA and Chakra. I'm reasonably certain that Orochimaru knew that mixing the two was what gave the Rinnegan, the ridiculously over-powered eye that can, among other things, let you use literally any technique even ones that you normally need a special bloodline ability to use.

    Then Orochimaru could just start looking for fir, healthy young men to transfer into without any special criterion. Danzo was old, but he probably could have lasted three years if Orochimaru took it easy.

    Hell, since he'd have the extra eyes that he doesn't need, he could cast a Genjutus of a perfect, immortal body that wouldn't break down or reject him, burn one of the spare eyes to make it real, then transfer into it.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2019-09-29 at 11:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It does rais the question of why Orochimaru didn't just bodyjack Danzo. He had to have known that Danzo had Sharingan, it was Orochimaru's technology and research into splicing the Shodai's DNA into people that let Danzo make his horrifying eldritch arm of body horror.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Orochimaru's body takes on physical traits of the people he body jacks and Danzo is an uggo.
    One of the things does not make sense in Naruto in hindsight. Orochimaru cooperated with Danzo after the Uchiha massacre to create the arm. So does that mean the arm already had the sharingan when Orochimaru implanted Hashirama Senju DNA in it? Are you telling me Orochimaru would not leap at the chance to grab 10 Sharingan even if Danzo was not his desired body to overtake?

    It makes no sense.

    And also wasn't Danzo's arm not just something Orochimaru added Senju DNA too, wasn't it that horrible Shin Uchiha character that was the transition character between Naruto and Boruto? If Orochimaru knew that Shin body will not prevent the transplant of Sharingan due to it seeming to be the perfect body donor why didn't Orochimaru at least grafted Shin + Senju cells onto himself, and if he could obtain it plus a Sharingan? Yes Orochimaru was trying to make a perfect blending of these various stocks but even a temporary transplant would make sense before Orochimaru lost his arms, and especially afterwards.

    [Yeah Naruto does not make sense in dozens of ways.]
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    well I won't restate other posters so....how about a joke?

    Danzo: Hello Orochimaru
    Orochimaru: Hey Danzo, got that arm for me to put senju DNA into you?
    Danzo: yup! *holds out arm with ten billion sharingan* right here
    Orochimaru: okay I'll get to work
    Danzo: wait....aren't you going to like, attack me for my sharingans?
    Orochimaru: No.
    Danzo: ...Why? Isn't this kind of like, your entire goal? Y'know, get the sharingan and senju DNA, get all jutsu, all that?
    Ororchimaru: what can't I restrain myself to provide services to another?
    Danzo: No. You literally defied all laws of civilization and humanity to become what you are.
    Orochimaru: I don't understand why are you bringing it up?
    Danzo: because you helping me out like this doesn't make sense in the slightest! Aren't going to go for your GOAL? y'know the thing you've spent your entire life to achieve? right here?
    Orochimaru: uh, what in the, you almost sound like you WANT me to kill and devour you so you so I can achieve everything I set out to do. and while we're on things that don't make sense, aren't your goals pretty much opposed to mine, since I want revenge on the Leaf Village and you want to preserve and strengthen in it your own way?
    Danzo: well lets be honest, I'm old Orochimaru. I'm literally as old as the Third Hokage! I'm going to drop dead any day now, and then where will all my schemes have been for? Nothing. And this Leaf Village isn't MY leaf village, its SARUTOBI's Leaf Village. its corrupted by his naivete! It deserves only destruction, so what better way to make sure its destroyed than to let you devour me, so that my last act is to empower the student that defied him, to perpetuate methods that sarutobi hated? thus empowering you to finally get my revenge on all that Sarutobi created! So what do you say to that, Orochimaru?
    Orochimaru: okay, thats real beautiful, but no.
    Danzo:.......WHY!?
    Orochimaru: because honestly, Danzo, your not my beloved Itachi
    Danzo: What.
    Orochimaru: A devouring for immortality can't be this tawdry paid for thing. thats cheap and unfulfilling. It has to be for love. and I love Itachi, he is so dreamy, such a bad boy with a mysterious gaze, I want him to experience my all devouring love as the last thing he experiences in existence so he becomes apart of me in my eternal embrace, forever. Sigh! <3
    Danzo: Thats disturbing.
    Orochimaru: Thank you, I try.
    Danzo: But wait, why did you go after Sasuke then?
    Orochimaru: because his hawt younger brother is just as good! but you, I just don't feel the same about you Danzo, lets stay just enemies.
    Danzo:........just....just put the stupid Senju DNA into my arm. I'm going to use my sharingan to erase my memories of this stupid conversation afterwards.
    Orochimaru: Okay-dokey!
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2019-09-30 at 02:15 AM.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Orochimaru as a masochist confirmed, and if the pain is not just right he is not interested.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    If danzo had died way back when the second hokage named sarutobi as his successor, things would have been SO FREAKING DIFFERENT. For starters, Rain would be an incredibly different nation with danzo not constantly causing trouble. Nagato, yahiko, and konan probably would have lived decent lives, and NOT joined akatsuki (or died in the case of yahiko) Plus, didnt it turn out that danzo was behind basically everything that tobito/madera hadnt setup themselves to cause problems in the elemental nations? I admit im fuzzy on the details as ive spent the last decade reading fanfiction where everything is made up and the points dont matter, but he caused a LOT of issues long term for konoha trying to solve short term problems with violence and betrayal.

    As for orochimaru, ugh, dont even get me started on how stupid his plan was. Implant a damn sharingan, keep it covered except when copying jutsus, then after three years hop into a new body and enjoy unfettered access to every jutsu on earth. You didnt NEED itachis body to do that! It just would have been a really nice physical upgrade included with the eyes. And its one that only would have lasted three years anyways! Like, i could understand if it was a full lifetime in the new body wanting to take the absolute best for yourself, but its three years then switch for eternity. Dont get hung up on a single option! Or, you know, CLONE ITACHIS BODY! Im sure he has bled at some point in his life. Heck, there probably was a blood sample back when he was a leaf nin at the hospital. Again, you have eternity, show some frigging patience, and clone copies of itachi at a staggered interval so every three years you have a peak level itachi body to take over.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    As for orochimaru, ugh, dont even get me started on how stupid his plan was. Implant a damn sharingan, keep it covered except when copying jutsus, then after three years hop into a new body and enjoy unfettered access to every jutsu on earth. You didnt NEED itachis body to do that! It just would have been a really nice physical upgrade included with the eyes. And its one that only would have lasted three years anyways! Like, i could understand if it was a full lifetime in the new body wanting to take the absolute best for yourself, but its three years then switch for eternity. Dont get hung up on a single option! Or, you know, CLONE ITACHIS BODY! Im sure he has bled at some point in his life. Heck, there probably was a blood sample back when he was a leaf nin at the hospital. Again, you have eternity, show some frigging patience, and clone copies of itachi at a staggered interval so every three years you have a peak level itachi body to take over.
    Orochimaru makes a lot more sense if you don't take his words at face value, and you are aware of his actions in later chapters. If you do not take Orochimaru's words at face value it makes sense in a Taoist / magic system framework and certain aspects of Naruto is based around Taoism / Wu Xing's 5 phases / transitions / also called elements. Orochimaru wanted not just to master the 5 phases but go back to the beginning and end with all its permutations, to do that he needed a body / substance that was connected to all the variants of chakra ever, and the mind to learn all past techniques with the freedom to create new techniques.

    So Orochimaru didn't just want a sharingan, he wanted to be perfect, eternal, without flaw, and capable of doing everything. All those things like getting a sharingan and so on are lesser goals and you can get lost in the pursuit of ones lesser goals while working towards the larger goals. In fact this is Orochimaru's great fear with his persona how you can get lost in the quest, and lose via getting so involved with the search. Remember Orochimaru's real goal was he wanted to transcend everything. Well death is the ultimate transcendence but even in death you do not go away in this setting with its magic system and other components, and death does not go away with this philosophy. Instead you just become disperse and part of a new system of the one and the many when you die.

    Orochimaru's chakra is eternal for even without the will and the consciousness, Chakra lives in death only to be used as fire for the next generation, and thus Orochimaru changed his mind on seeking immortality after his death and reformation. Instead Orochimaru is happy merely to live and enjoy via watching the living. Orochimaru loves to watch ever since a child, his villian days, and his reformed days, it is one of the constants in his persona. Yet while Orochimaru loves to watch he fears being still.

    So it is ironic but also not ironic that "the pain of death" had taught him to enjoy the unbearable pain of watching but being unable to change the outcome but still get sympathetic joy via watching. Orochimaru has learned to enjoy stillness as long as least one part of reality is still moving. Orochimaru has faced his greatest fear and has been transformed by facing his greatest fear. That fear is still a part of him, but he is different now that he has experienced it directly and learned from the experience.

    -----

    Sidenote is it any surprise that Orochimaru never picked up nature energy / sage chakra with his temperament? Orochimaru hates still things that do not move.

    And is it any surprise that Orochimaru had disdain for Jiraya yet at the same time it wasn't loathing this form of disdain but instead was a curiosity that Jiraiya peeked. This interest in Jiraiya persisted even if the first impression, the taste of Jiraiya was unpleasant. [Put another way there was admiration and aspirations once you got past the first initial taste of Jiraiya being loud.]

    -----

    In summary Orochimaru interests make sense from a thematic standpoint all throughout the series. Orochimaru was not even aware full of what he wanted and was too afraid to face until he was forced to face it.

    The other villians in the series they may far less sense than Orochimaru.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2019-09-30 at 07:46 PM.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    we are kinda forgetting shin uchiha was latter join in his quest if he knew or remembered the shin was perfect donor for his gatter all ninjutsu plan he never bother the sasuke plan all along just clone shin atleast three times and boom you got the mangeko sharingan on new body but you can still die so shin only becomes usefull after his perfect zetsu body which he needs two of them but makes him legit dangerous enough that i think obito throws his chakra to mix for gedo mazo just to keep plans save.
    but more intresting thing is kama and sumires jutsu if bleakbane reaches us thats kinda only thing currently he might be intresting. knowledge to create unique chakra beasts and easier way to administer cursed seal. yes please.
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    New Boruto!

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    Kawaki and the rest of team dumbass rush heedlessly into danger instead of waiting for Shikamaru to assist. Dumb ****ing kids. Good chapter though, honestly.


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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Bleakbane Catches Up With Naruto

    Between the stupendously time-consuming 3.Aotrs revision I'm doing birthday trips to London (actual birthday this Thursday), we have had a little delay, but always fear, I'll always be back!


    The Darkness of the Akatsuki

    Well, this was an intesting episode of Itachi's early history with the Akatsuki. He started off with another swordsman of the mist who had the Executioner's Blade befroe Zabuza, apparently. This chap is one of the 3/7 Swordsman of the mist that surviived Guy's dad's epic arse-kicking. He's all like "this is great, I don't have to worry about anything, I just get to kill and not think at all about why!"

    Sasori is currenlty with Orocimaru (who is making "I want you body" eyes at Itachi, and not in the sexual way.

    ...

    Probably nor, anyway. And Kazuku with some guy whose identify I never caught. Anyway, they are off on their little jobs for Akatuski, until a mission comes up in Water. Simple assassination (highlight is when the dude asks Itachi if he's any good an inflitration and Itachi syas he's "average," ahahahahah, oh Itachi, and people say you have no sense of humour), but Itachi and his mate fall afoul of Yagura, at the time still Mizukage. They blend through his ANBU like nobody's business, but then Yagaru starts tails-mode-ing. Itachi's mate tri4es to deflect a beast-ball with his sword, and end up getting the executioner's blade through his innards (um, no duh, mate). Itachi manifests Amaratsu, and Yagura burns right out of tailed beast mode (though isn't, surprisingly, burned to death). Itachi's mate dies, and Itachi goes back to find out Kazuku "accidently" killed his partner who annoyed him (beause he's a crotchety old dude). Roachy tries hard to be on Itachi's team but Pain is having none of it.

    It is at this point, Roachy makes his move on Itachi and is very throughtly schooled in "Itachi Will Kick You Arse, Mate" Fu. Kabuto appears so they can bravely run away, and we end with Pain, narked they'd lost a third of the members inside, like five minutes, teaming Itachi up with Kisame.

    Yeah. This is all new ground, and it is interesting, and devoid of trying to be philosphical or anything, so it's actually pretty okay. I mean, it's not amazing, but it's a lot better than we've been having in this arc.


    Partner

    We start out with Itachi, Sasori and Kisame recruting Deidara (it is implied Itachi genjutsu'd the crap out of him), and Pain sends Sasori and Deidara straight out to assassinate Orichimaru. Sasori's all "look at my 3rd Kazekage puppet!" and Orichimaru is al "ha, I ust resurrected the 3rd Kazekage!" Which leads to a hilarious battle of 3rd Kazekage verses 3rd Kazekage, which ends when the resurrected Kazekage breaks out from the jutsu. Deidara uses the chance to blow the frickin' base up, but Roachy's gone by then, to their disgust.

    Konan, Itachi and Kazuku go to knobble a homidial immortal madman, which unsurprisingly turns out to be Hidan. (Who somehow manges to nail of Kazuku's hearts. Didn't even see Kazuku get cut, though... Does he even have blood...?) Recruitment happens...

    And we end with Itachi heading to the Leaf with Kisame.

    Again, this was quite interesting, and it didn't linger on stuff we've seen before.



    Truth

    First half of episode - recap of everything Iachi's done in the series to date. Yawn.

    Them finally -

    PLOT HAPPENS! Yaaaaaay!

    The jutsu stops shining, once Saskue finishes his long flashback, so Team Seven can finally get out.

    Madara and Black Zetsu move in to deal with these last stragglers (since apparently the remaining Hokages don't count or something...)

    Madara proceeds to point out he's brought peace to the world and ended the shinobi's fighting once and for all, and that putting everyone into an eternal dreamworld was the only way to do that.

    (I mean... He's not WRONG, as long as you're dealing with humans plural, permenant surveillance or something IS the only option, since humans pride themselves too much on their ability to be complete crap-stains all the time, so... I really can't fault him, honestly. Dude's far more merciful than I'd be...)

    And then Black Zetsu stabs him through the back.

    (This would have come as a total shock, I'm sure, if I didn't know about this years in advance. And they hadn't COMPLETELY spoiled it by showing that in the opening credits that have been running for age and ages. Despite my deep, deep misgivings about this end plot, to be brutally fair, it IS extremely well executed, to the point it is rising above the silliness in it's premise and the Final Fantasy IX out-of-nowhere end-boss.)

    Madara though, it totally flat-footed, and also paralysed. Black Zetsu is like all "muahahahahahahaha! You fool, this was my plan all the time! Thanks for doing it all for me!" Madara is like all "but I created you," and Zets's like "nuh-uh dumbass, my will is Kaguya's, moron!" And he starts draining all the chakra out of everyone. In like BOOM massive bursts of chakra and Madara starts swelling in a way that would make Chouji go "steady on, man!"

    So, turns out, the infinite tsukiyome is actually a jutsu for gathering all the chaka for Kaguya. She doesn't intend to drain them to death, though - after all, if they all die, how who they get turned over time into her soldiers? Really, Team Seven, where did they think all the White Zetsu came from, they were last time's victims!

    ...

    Wait, WHAT?!

    Oh snap, THAT'S not what I expected at all!

    Okay, this is Bad! Like really, really bad!

    Saskue and Nartuo leap in and completely fail to stop Black Zetsu, as he melts away, while taunting them how dumb and stupid they are. Madara disappears into the black slime covering his body that black Zetsu has become.

    Bye, Madara! You were the Best Villain, honestly! It was an honour and a priviledge! Don't matter the way you went out, you won, if only for a few minutes (for several filler arcs, if you want to think about it that way, which is way longer.) Pat yourself on the back, mate, you did a GRAND job!

    And then Madara's body contracts into Kaguya.

    Pants are darkened...




    Well. That was a rather abrupt tonal-shift into the second half, wasn't it?

    Still, I'm fairly sure we are back to plot now (I mean, next epsiode is the start of volume 36 and there's only 38 volumes, so we're officially in the last 42 episodes!)

    Watch them find a way to squeeze more filler in now I've said that...!

    Still, at least that cliffhangar might motivate me faster for the next installment! (I'm sure you're all cursing now...!)

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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Bleakbane Catches Up With Naruto
    So, turns out, the infinite tsukiyome is actually a jutsu for gathering all the chaka for Kaguya. She doesn't intend to drain them to death, though - after all, if they all die, how who they get turned over time into her soldiers? Really, Team Seven, where did they think all the White Zetsu came from, they were last time's victims!
    The Infinite Tsukuyomi is many things and not a single thing. It is like having a recipe and depending on how you mix the ingredients and cook the ingredients you may get different results. Brownies are not the same as Chocolate Cake and so on. You can make a crust for cheesecake and fill it with cream cheese cheesecake mixture or you can coat it with frosting.

    Infinite Tsukuyomi is merely infusing your chakra with everyone's on the planet. It is then permanent if the Rinnegan users wills it.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    I don't care what other people say.

    I like Kaguya. "Almost all of the suffering for the past several generations was caused by a woman's greed and unwillingness to let her sons be independent."

    The whole thing is building up to the ultimate big bad being some kind of cosmic horror and now, ignoring that she's an alien with Godlike Power Kaguya's basically just a normal human with human motivations. She's kind of a flat character, but her being two-dimensional I think is the point.
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

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    Default Re: Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    I don't care what other people say.

    I like Kaguya. "Almost all of the suffering for the past several generations was caused by a woman's greed and unwillingness to let her sons be independent."

    The whole thing is building up to the ultimate big bad being some kind of cosmic horror and now, ignoring that she's an alien with Godlike Power Kaguya's basically just a normal human with human motivations. She's kind of a flat character, but her being two-dimensional I think is the point.
    I agree in general for you are echoing my feelings. But let me still lodge a complaint. I wanted to see Team 7 vs Madara with his 4 limbo clones. Give 2 chapters of them fighting and then let it happened the way it happened. (And Kaguya could have been tightened up a little if the author had more time to relax and write. How hard would it have been to give Kishimoto a nice vacation and let him finish the story at his own pace.
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