Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

[Kato]

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But it nowhere says technology is forbidden. And using technology also requires skill, to an extent. It's like the people complaining about how CGI is lazy, since they likely never tried to do any CGI...
Don't get me wrong, Boruto has a bad conscience and tries to hide this for a reason, but except for Naruto being against this technology.... how is it worse than any other ninjy weapon?


More in general... eh, fine chapter. Okay, okay chapter. Nothing majorly bad... except maybe the ominous talk of the scroll which tells us absolutely nothing. Great writing, totally not mysterious on purpose and stuff.

[LaZodiac]

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But it nowhere says technology is forbidden. And using technology also requires skill, to an extent. It's like the people complaining about how CGI is lazy, since they likely never tried to do any CGI...
Don't get me wrong, Boruto has a bad conscience and tries to hide this for a reason, but except for Naruto being against this technology.... how is it worse than any other ninjy weapon?


More in general... eh, fine chapter. Okay, okay chapter. Nothing majorly bad... except maybe the ominous talk of the scroll which tells us absolutely nothing. Great writing, totally not mysterious on purpose and stuff.

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I think the issue is because it allows him to do stuff he can't ACTUALLY do, no matter how hard he trains. What's the point of having a contest of personal strength and growth if you're going to use something to make you not have to grow as a person?

Like, look at it this way. Ten Ten uses weapons. Weapons are tools that let her attack at long range. But she's got to throw them, learn how to throw them, do all the chakra stuff to control them, and so on. The implication of the ninja scroll pellets is that you just slot them in and they do the work. Aim and shoot, without any REAL effort involved. Now, lets say Bort MADE the ninja gauntlet himself, and made all of those pellets himself, THEN it'd be okay. Kankuro doesn't get **** for using puppets because he made those things, after all. So that's the differences, I think, between a regular ninja tool and a device that lets even a non ninja throw super power blasts around like a high tier ninja.

[Rater202]

Spoiler: IIRC

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In the movie that that this is adapting, the Gauntlet was also an untested and unapproved Ninja Tool, so.

[Ramza00]

Ninja Weapons

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One of the problems of ninja weapons is they do not improve Chakra. They do not improve your base stats with manipulating the physical components of chakra or the spiritual / mental components.

Now proper chakra control is important, it raises your base stats including strength, endurance, speed, and agility. Proper Chakra control will allow you to do the basics such as walking on water or walking on walls. Proper Chakra Control is necessary to disrupt Genjutsu.

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Ninja Weapons are self contained systems, they have nothing to do with the user. In the Chunin exams the whole point is to show off the power of the user for the sake of the village. Thus Ninja Weapons is against the spirit and the purpose of the Chunin Exams, the whole point of the Chunin exams is not to win, nor is it to cheat to win, the whole point of the Chunin Exams is to a fake war game, a military training exercise where you show off the power of your nation's regiment of troops vs another nation's regiment of troops.

Now a secondary purpose of the chunin exams is to be a place for self advancement in that regiment of troops. To get a promotion, like moving up from cadet/ensign to lieutenant.

[Kato]

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I think the issue is because it allows him to do stuff he can't ACTUALLY do, no matter how hard he trains. What's the point of having a contest of personal strength and growth if you're going to use something to make you not have to grow as a person?

Like, look at it this way. Ten Ten uses weapons. Weapons are tools that let her attack at long range. But she's got to throw them, learn how to throw them, do all the chakra stuff to control them, and so on. The implication of the ninja scroll pellets is that you just slot them in and they do the work. Aim and shoot, without any REAL effort involved. Now, lets say Bort MADE the ninja gauntlet himself, and made all of those pellets himself, THEN it'd be okay. Kankuro doesn't get **** for using puppets because he made those things, after all. So that's the differences, I think, between a regular ninja tool and a device that lets even a non ninja throw super power blasts around like a high tier ninja.

Yes, but he still needs to use them (somehwhat) strategically. While it makes things easier for him, they are not an instant win button (or shouldn't be). He needs to consider when to use which scroll and how. Granted, this is a different and arguably lower level of skill requirement but it's still skill.

[Frozen_Feet]

I think the real problem, as Rater202 noted, is that the device is untested and unapproved, and Naruto is not happy with his son being used as a test dummy.

[ben-zayb]

I mean, does Sand Shield require skill? Does activating a cursed seal? Does Suigetsu's physical invulnerability in water form? Does Kimimaro's KG lottery? I mean, the first two are tacked with hefty drawbacks, but that's it.

[Mato]

Gaara consciously augments his shield of sand when he anticipates it's not good enough, the cursed seal will kill you if you don't learn how to use it, the Hozuki liquid form ability is technique classified as a secret water technique making it at least partially knowledge based, not much is known about Kaguya's bloodline limit but Kimimaro is an expert at combining his bloodline & taijutsu which probably years of personal training to achieve.

I feel the argument is debating the two extremes when it's the middle in question. Side A says tools bad and lists the various reasons and side B on the other hand refuses to accept it because a tool is only as good as it's user but have taken it to the extreme that using a tool must also inherent mean you are some kind of super expert professional. But what's really going on is that the purposes of determining a ninja's promotion and evaluating their abilities using a tool that rapidly fires off all fire elemental types (and any sealed bloodline) simply pushed the line to far and it was barred for misleading the judges and being unfair to anyone who didn't have either a free trial or deep pockets.

Remember the tool's development isn't restricted and Boruto wasn't the first or only ninja to use it. It is simply banned from the chunin exams. I like to think of it like how the military uses guns & hummers but they still need to train their survival and unarmed skills and achieve a certain level of fitness just in case their equipment breaks or runs out. And if that doesn't work, how about how many tests in school were you allowed to take with google open in front of you?

[lord_khaine]

I think the real problem, as Rater202 noted, is that the device is untested and unapproved, and Naruto is not happy with his son being used as a test dummy.

From the anime it seemed very clear, that what he were unhappy with, were catching his son cheating on the test.

I mean, does Sand Shield require skill? Does activating a cursed seal? Does Suigetsu's physical invulnerability in water form? Does Kimimaro's KG lottery? I mean, the first two are tacked with hefty drawbacks, but that's it.

It hardly matters if those things require skill to use or not. The exam is a place where they test ninja's against each other, but while you cant randomly give some of them a sand shield, and should not give them a cursed seal, then you can give such a device.
And its something that would scew the test results, the same way as if you randomly gave swords and shurikens to 1/3 of them.

[khadgar567]

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Yeah but he cheated in a bad way, if that makes sense? He just used technology to be good, without any actual skill involved. He'd of been out in every round if he didn't have friends who are actually just good ninjas.

One could argue Naruto was the same way but at least he TRIED.

Spoiler: same scene from movie

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he prepares two shurikens to beat him but decides to use the device for little show boating plus they train same problem with sasuke

[Starwulf]

For those of you who read Naruto fanfiction, I recently found one that had somehow slipped under my radar, and man, it may very well be the best I've ever read, and if not the best(Echoes and Third Fangs fic are still top contenders), it's definitely top 3. https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4573620/1/A-Drop-of-Poison

It's premise is, Iruka gets knocked out by Mizuki due to poison on the giant windmill shuriken that Iruka took in the back for Naruto. As such Naruto fails the academy and ends up having to repeat. Before that happens though, he discovers one of his clones had a cloned version of the Forbidden Scroll on his back, and this leads to....many, many changes. I don't want to say too much else, but I can say it's well written, with very few spelling/grammatical errors(I'm not even sure if I've noticed any at all to be honest, but that may be because the story is so good), and while it's apparent Naruto is becoming very powerful, it's not an instant thing, and it's in a rather different fashion then normal.

[Swaoeaeieu]

For those of you who read Naruto fanfiction, I recently found one that had somehow slipped under my radar, and man, it may very well be the best I've ever read, and if not the best(Echoes and Third Fangs fic are still top contenders), it's definitely top 3. https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4573620/1/A-Drop-of-Poison

It's premise is, Iruka gets knocked out by Mizuki due to poison on the giant windmill shuriken that Iruka took in the back for Naruto. As such Naruto fails the academy and ends up having to repeat. Before that happens though, he discovers one of his clones had a cloned version of the Forbidden Scroll on his back, and this leads to....many, many changes. I don't want to say too much else, but I can say it's well written, with very few spelling/grammatical errors(I'm not even sure if I've noticed any at all to be honest, but that may be because the story is so good), and while it's apparent Naruto is becoming very powerful, it's not an instant thing, and it's in a rather different fashion then normal.

you were right. its a pretty decent fic. even if i dislike reading good ones which are unfinished/abandoned. not knowing how it ends grinds my gears :P

[Starwulf]

you were right. its a pretty decent fic. even if i dislike reading good ones which are unfinished/abandoned. not knowing how it ends grinds my gears :P

I'm actually not sure it's abandoned, going off of reviews, and comments from the earlier chapters, plus how long the fic has gone(from 2008 until March of this year), it would appear that the author just has a very, very slow update process. Initially it seemed like they only updated it once every 6 months to a year, but then started to update once a month for a period of time, and then recently fell off the wagon again. It's quite possible he/she might churn out another update in the near future and maybe even return to a more frequent update schedule. I'm keeping my fingers crossed :)

[Swaoeaeieu]

I'm actually not sure it's abandoned, going off of reviews, and comments from the earlier chapters, plus how long the fic has gone(from 2008 until March of this year), it would appear that the author just has a very, very slow update process. Initially it seemed like they only updated it once every 6 months to a year, but then started to update once a month for a period of time, and then recently fell off the wagon again. It's quite possible he/she might churn out another update in the near future and maybe even return to a more frequent update schedule. I'm keeping my fingers crossed :)

ill just atribute that to me not understanding fanfiq.net then. i though the last update was 2008 XD

[Starwulf]

ill just atribute that to me not understanding fanfiq.net then. i though the last update was 2008 XD

:) No, that's just when it was published. Right before that it says "Updated: Mar 4". Since there's no year next to that, it indicates that it's March 4 of this year.

[Swaoeaeieu]

well, now im finished with that fic. Does anyone have any good recomendations? weirdly enough Naruto is one of the few things i can tolerate fanfiction of...

[Douglas]

well, now im finished with that fic. Does anyone have any good recomendations? weirdly enough Naruto is one of the few things i can tolerate fanfiction of...

Time Braid is really good. Sakura gets stuck in a Groundhog Day style time loop with the reset point being the start of the Chunin Exam. Somehow, she has to learn how to survive the Forest of Death (complete with Orochimaru encounter), pass the preliminary combat trial, and prevent Orochimaru's invasion from devastating Konoha, all without relying on fickle luck that she can't consistently repeat. And that's just the beginning.

[Swaoeaeieu]

Time Braid is really good. Sakura gets stuck in a Groundhog Day style time loop with the reset point being the start of the Chunin Exam. Somehow, she has to learn how to survive the Forest of Death (complete with Orochimaru encounter), pass the preliminary combat trial, and prevent Orochimaru's invasion from devastating Konoha, all without relying on fickle luck that she can't consistently repeat. And that's just the beginning.

yea i read that one. my favorite, except for the demon enslaving hinata thing... that just felt wrong to read :s

maybe i should have mentioned the once i did read... So far the once i remember are Time braid, chuunin exam day, drop of poison, reaching for a dream (wich is also pretty good but lewd as all heck), and I am not going through puberty again.
all nice once. also i tried some others but couldnt get through em, so i dont remember the names i guess.

[Traab]

Reaching for a dream has multiple sequels if you are interested in the continuing adventures of naruto, though crossovers abound in them. dc comics in one, seikiri in another, sg1 in a third, etc.
The Hope of the Senju Clan is a good one, still updating, if slowly. Its a strong naruto story with one heck of a twist for its start. The Mouse of Konoha is awesome, even if its a slow updater. Its so far primarily a story about a young naruto getting a lesson along the lines of there is no such thing as a free lunch. He takes that lesson to heart and turns the world on its ear. Its a long story already and he only recently started the academy. If you enjoy that, read Win Some, Lose some. Its a collection of mainly one shots, but they are all good length, and a lot of really interesting story premises there. And The Beast Cometh is an interesting naruto crossover with the justice league. Meh, you know what? Do an author search for me Tribernator and take a gander through my favorites list. Its primarily naruto or harry potter but since you can do category searches as well im sure you will find a few good fics out of the nearly 800 or so in my favorites.

[Douglas]

Just remembered Lighting Up the Dark. The basic premise is that intelligence and clever tactics are powerful and valued above all else, and the scary thing about the Bijuu isn't how powerful they are (in fact, they have no more power than a normal ninja) but rather how smart they are. The author does a very good job of coming up with plausible non-hand-wavy ways to showcase the creativity of the characters and how important it is. It's not complete and updates infrequently, but it is still being worked on.

[Starwulf]

Just remembered Lighting Up the Dark. The basic premise is that intelligence and clever tactics are powerful and valued above all else, and the scary thing about the Bijuu isn't how powerful they are (in fact, they have no more power than a normal ninja) but rather how smart they are. The author does a very good job of coming up with plausible non-hand-wavy ways to showcase the creativity of the characters and how important it is. It's not complete and updates infrequently, but it is still being worked on.

It's funny you mention this story as I just so happen to be reading it right now. Only a few chapters in but I'm enjoying it so far :)

[Swaoeaeieu]

Just remembered Lighting Up the Dark. The basic premise is that intelligence and clever tactics are powerful and valued above all else, and the scary thing about the Bijuu isn't how powerful they are (in fact, they have no more power than a normal ninja) but rather how smart they are. The author does a very good job of coming up with plausible non-hand-wavy ways to showcase the creativity of the characters and how important it is. It's not complete and updates infrequently, but it is still being worked on.

Just finished that one (as in, i read all of it thats out so far) and that is a good one! indeed smartly written. thanks for letting us know!

[LaZodiac]

New Bort!

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Wow what utterly ****ing garbage hamfisted dialogue and plot points. Bort is using a machine to be better, the god rabbit idiots are doing the same only it's not a machine it's just a drug they use. IT's...I get it man. Symbolism. I get it.

And NAruto's gonna go die in a fight against these two people who are not even remotely a threat to anyone in anyway because...how are they supposed to be a threat compared to Kaguya again?

[Swaoeaeieu]

New Bort!

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Wow what utterly ****ing garbage hamfisted dialogue and plot points. Bort is using a machine to be better, the god rabbit idiots are doing the same only it's not a machine it's just a drug they use. IT's...I get it man. Symbolism. I get it.

And NAruto's gonna go die in a fight against these two people who are not even remotely a threat to anyone in anyway because...how are they supposed to be a threat compared to Kaguya again?

Spoiler: new chapter

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Didnt the scroll say even kaguya warned about these guys? Maybe not because they are stronger, but are mega greedy for all that yummy chakra and therefore dangerous?
but yea i agree, they do not seem like a big enough threat to make it believable that naruta dies here... maybe just get a bit beat up. something to teach Bort to work instead of dope or something

[Ramza00]

New Bort!

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Wow what utterly ****ing garbage hamfisted dialogue and plot points. Bort is using a machine to be better, the god rabbit idiots are doing the same only it's not a machine it's just a drug they use. IT's...I get it man. Symbolism. I get it.

And NAruto's gonna go die in a fight against these two people who are not even remotely a threat to anyone in anyway because...how are they supposed to be a threat compared to Kaguya again?

Why they are a threat?

Using spoilers only from the first five chapters of the manga.

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Chapter 2 of Boruto established those two are from the same clan as Kaguya. Chapter 2 also established the skinner guy has both Byakugan in his main eyes, and 2 rinnegans in the palms of his hand. Once again with Chapter 2, the two rinnegan allow him to do something similar to the Preta / Hungry Ghost path version of the Rinnegan with absorbing techniques but there are some key differences unique to this new villain. This new villain uses 1 rinnegan located on his right hand, understand the technique and absorb the technique, and then replicate the technique with his left hand, except the technique is magnified by the villain's / Otsutsuki massive chakra reserves and chakra control.

If you want to think seriously about it, the villain is a big "ninja tech tool" in biological form since the ninja tech tools work the same way where someone stores chakra and technique into a scroll (the right hand), while the ninja tool then later on replicates the technique at a later date (the left hand)

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: new chapter

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Didnt the scroll say even kaguya warned about these guys? Maybe not because they are stronger, but are mega greedy for all that yummy chakra and therefore dangerous?
but yea i agree, they do not seem like a big enough threat to make it believable that naruta dies here... maybe just get a bit beat up. something to teach Bort to work instead of dope or something

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Yeah. And even wth what Ramza said below...how is this at all a threat? Kaguya could just teleport people into an acid dimension full of acid. She just DIDN'T for some reason. She still seems far more threatening these these losers.

Hell, Sasuke snarked at them. Maybe when they do kill Naruto (because they clearly DO kill Naruto at some point, the flashfoward at the start of the series makes it pretty clear he's dead) we'll see, but right now...they seem really lame.

Why they are a threat?

Using spoilers only from the first five chapters of the manga.

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Chapter 2 of Boruto established those two are from the same clan as Kaguya. Chapter 2 also established the skinner guy has both Byakugan in his main eyes, and 2 rinnegans in the palms of his hand. Once again with Chapter 2, the two rinnegan allow him to do something similar to the Preta / Hungry Ghost path version of the Rinnegan with absorbing techniques but there are some key differences unique to this new villain. This new villain uses 1 rinnegan located on his right hand, understand the technique and absorb the technique, and then replicate the technique with his left hand, except the technique is magnified by the villain's / Otsutsuki massive chakra reserves and chakra control.

If you want to think seriously about it, the villain is a big "ninja tech tool" in biological form since the ninja tech tools work the same way where someone stores chakra and technique into a scroll (the right hand), while the ninja tool then later on replicates the technique at a later date (the left hand)

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This all makes sense and yet still doesn't really feel like it works. If not for the second guy and his absorbo hands Shikamaru would of outright killed that last guy. Shadow him and then stab him to death. These guys are NOT strong. They're just using tolls.

I realize that's the POINT, but having the guy outright say it the way he did, bragging about his drugs, makes the point way too blunt. It makes me sad because it just further reminds me of how Naruto had such subtle and good writing before, like with Haku and Zabuza. Now we've got this bunny eared mother****er bragging about his cool drugs and how they can make anyone as strong as a god with no effort HMM WHAT'S THAT BORT NO EFFORT HMMM SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING YOU DID HUH?

It's just...this could of been good but they just aren't even trying, it feels.

[Ramza00]

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This all makes sense and yet still doesn't really feel like it works. If not for the second guy and his absorbo hands Shikamaru would of outright killed that last guy. Shadow him and then stab him to death. These guys are NOT strong. They're just using tolls.

I realize that's the POINT, but having the guy outright say it the way he did, bragging about his drugs, makes the point way too blunt. It makes me sad because it just further reminds me of how Naruto had such subtle and good writing before, like with Haku and Zabuza. Now we've got this bunny eared mother****er bragging about his cool drugs and how they can make anyone as strong as a god with no effort HMM WHAT'S THAT BORT NO EFFORT HMMM SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING YOU DID HUH?

It's just...this could of been good but they just aren't even trying, it feels.

Yes the writting can be better.

Fun trivia fact

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One of the two villain's name is Momoshiki, Momo as in Peach (the skinny one is momoshiki).

It is likely he is referencing a folk tale of Japan the peach boy of Momotarō. In the story Momo was found in a peach by an old couple and they adopt him as a child (this is similar to Kaguya who was found in a piece of bamboo and raised by an old man). Now there are many folk tales about Momotaro involving him having super strength and scaring off oni / demons / ogres from a nearby island, and in some of the stories Momotaro is a child who listens to his parents but in other stories he is a lazy brat who constantly falls asleep. (Evidence points to the good boy story being a later creation when it was used to try to instil values into children as an aesop).

Well it appears boruto will be going with the lazy brat version of Momotaro.

[Traab]

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Yeah. And even wth what Ramza said below...how is this at all a threat? Kaguya could just teleport people into an acid dimension full of acid. She just DIDN'T for some reason. She still seems far more threatening these these losers.

Hell, Sasuke snarked at them. Maybe when they do kill Naruto (because they clearly DO kill Naruto at some point, the flashfoward at the start of the series makes it pretty clear he's dead) we'll see, but right now...they seem really lame.

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This all makes sense and yet still doesn't really feel like it works. If not for the second guy and his absorbo hands Shikamaru would of outright killed that last guy. Shadow him and then stab him to death. These guys are NOT strong. They're just using tolls.

I realize that's the POINT, but having the guy outright say it the way he did, bragging about his drugs, makes the point way too blunt. It makes me sad because it just further reminds me of how Naruto had such subtle and good writing before, like with Haku and Zabuza. Now we've got this bunny eared mother****er bragging about his cool drugs and how they can make anyone as strong as a god with no effort HMM WHAT'S THAT BORT NO EFFORT HMMM SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING YOU DID HUH?

It's just...this could of been good but they just aren't even trying, it feels.

Bah,

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dont do shikamaru down. That guy might as well be called japxanatos. The only reason he doesnt kick all of the butt in naruto is a lack of raw power to back up his brain. Honestly, thats his only weakness is being overwhelmed by so much sheer power no plan can counter it. Otherwise he is a scary scary man I wouldnt want to face in a dark alley. (especially not a dark alley )

[LaZodiac]

Bah,

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dont do shikamaru down. That guy might as well be called japxanatos. The only reason he doesnt kick all of the butt in naruto is a lack of raw power to back up his brain. Honestly, thats his only weakness is being overwhelmed by so much sheer power no plan can counter it. Otherwise he is a scary scary man I wouldnt want to face in a dark alley. (especially not a dark alley )

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I'm actually not intending to be down on Shikamaru, it's just that of all the people who matter in this entire cast he's the only one who actively did anything to directly stop these people and it worked. If Momoshiki didn't have rude eyeball hands that eat things, this arc would be over. I LOVE that. Shikamaru rules.

[Traab]

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I'm actually not intending to be down on Shikamaru, it's just that of all the people who matter in this entire cast he's the only one who actively did anything to directly stop these people and it worked. If Momoshiki didn't have rude eyeball hands that eat things, this arc would be over. I LOVE that. Shikamaru rules.

Ah ok,

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I thought it was a sort of, "If someone as pathetic as shika could nearly win" etc etc etc. Because yeah, shika rules against anyone that doesnt have casual nation reshaping power levels. Against them he has to restrict himself to advising naruto and the other monsters of combat. And lets be honest, the whole "aha, you thought you had me but I also have this skill/partner/secret sauce ability" thing is kind of a staple of naruto at this point. All the way back to zabuza and haku. First the very existence of haku being a get out of death free card. Then the fight against haku showing us the surprise one handed ninjutsu seals, THEN haku broke out the bloodline. Speaking of one handed seals, did that ever come up again?