Erfworld 61 - Page 55

[Welf]

He can keep that up essentially forever, thanks to the Dwagon's toughness and the "heal back to full every day" rule.

This tactic only works if ansom a total nut. We now both armies - the fliers and the column - are both to strong for a normal attack, even by dwagons. This trick Parson uses only works because there were no fliers and the column was in heavy threes. Ansom only needs to call back his fliers and reunite them with the column (which Wnsom should do on his next turn). And Goblin Knob can still be taken by brutal force and wasting troops en large.

[Flakey]

I think someone brought up the visual fact of "half vampire" due to his one fang and one pointed ear, but I don't know if that was settled as "good observation" or "bad art blunder"

Not sure about what the one fang signifies, but the one ear was a mistake, all other instances of vinny have him with two pointed ears. As Steve has already shown with his links on another thread.

[scotty new]

This comic rocks! Just wanted to throw that one out there.

[Ithekro]

Well since there is no night action you couldn't have standard "nocturnal" creatures on this world. Why be a vampire that can't do anything at night? So therefore he may still be a vampire in that he controls the bats and some of the other sterotype things vampires can do that don't relate to sunlight, religion, or maybe drinking blood. Since this world seems based on what I would call "children's imagination" Some things seem tame, yet not so tame. Like the world is baed on what a child might imagine, but works within the scope of a table top, or maybe computer based tactical campaign. It is very interesting, and I wish I knew more.

It might even work as an actual game at some point in time.

[Clamps]

The last panel looks a bit like when Light monologuing in Death Note.

I can just hear the lightning for dramtic effect in that last panel.

Pretty much exactly what I thought. I totally expected L's theme to play (somehow) as Parson explained his absurdly overcomplicated plan.

[SteveMB]

Since this world seems based on what I would call "children's imagination" Some things seem tame, yet not so tame. Like the world is based on what a child might imagine, but works within the scope of a table top, or maybe computer based tactical campaign.

(pause to search to give credit where credit is due) Caleniel made an insightful observation in response to one of my comments, describing Parson as being caught in a world that is a "caricature of his own imagination".

Viewing it that way, my read is: Parts of it are childish, perhaps reflecting aspects of his psyche that he'd rather not acknowledge (the "cutesy-boop" trappings); parts of it are adolescent, perhaps reflecting his naughtier fantasies (the kinky-lesbian-BDSM vibe of Wanda's interrogation of Jillian), and parts of it reflect his openly stated interests (the war and the various tactical and strategic elements thereof).

It is very interesting, and I wish I knew more.

Join the club. (Then again, by posting here you sort of already have. )

[Thayus]

This tactic only works if ansom a total nut. We now both armies - the fliers and the column - are both to strong for a normal attack, even by dwagons. This trick Parson uses only works because there were no fliers and the column was in heavy threes. Ansom only needs to call back his fliers and reunite them with the column (which Wnsom should do on his next turn). And Goblin Knob can still be taken by brutal force and wasting troops en large.

Here's a possibility: Depends on where he placed his Dwagon-fort - and depends on if Ansom's air force is _all_ with Jillian, or if it's spread out over a few hexes. Parson knows the answer, we don't.

If the Air Force is all stacked (which would only happen if they found Jillian quickly and the units with move left all converged on her), then Parson will set the Dwagon Fort out of the way, so that the full fury of the Air Force doesn't descend on it.

However, if the Air Force is spread out - hang on.

Parson wanted to get a shot at Ansom. He's smart enough to want to make it as easy a fight as possible. Which means that he would want as few units with Ansom and Jillian as possible. At a bare minimum, Jillian was placed beyond Orly range.

Furthermore, hexes are pretty big things - at least a kilometer across, and possibly 2-3. Even air units aren't going to have much visual range, although Jillian's ability to spot targets of opportunity argues that air units can see things at least a hex or two away. But probably not much more than that, perhaps especially when you're trying to spot ground units in thick forest.

The implication of this is that the Air Force had to fly spread out in a search pattern. I'll assume that allied units within sight of each other have at least rudimentary communications, to prevent searching from being too impossibly complicated. I'll assume that part of the Archon's job is to provide additional command/control links when it comes time to gather the Air Force.

(Even spread out, Parson would not want to attack the air group. Sure, he could get his hitsies in, but then the survivors would concentrate their numbers and swarm his dwagons. Without Ansom as a prize, this potential disaster is not worth the risk.)

So, anyway, there could easily be a bunch of Orly stacks and possibly Gwiffon stacks spread out in a search pattern. Only Jamie and Rob know for sure, of course.



Ansom will need to get those air units back. Which means they need to be relayed instructions. If there are enough stacks, the warlords will not be able to escort each stack home - many of them won't be able to gather at a rally point and still have enough move to reach the column. Furthermore, being all spread out, their exact pathing will vary. If Parson sets up his Dwagon Fort in the right place, he can reasonably expect to intercept a whole bunch of unlead stacks. If the Dwagons have any kind of First Strike ability, Ambush ability (Nestle), or if their breath weapons allow them a 'fire while closing to melee' option that acts like First Strike against pure Melee units, then they can probably croak Orly stacks for zero damage and Gwiffon stacks for minimal damage. (If they get both First Strike _and_ Fire While Closing, then they might even croak Gwiffon stacks for no damage.)

Depending on the exact details, Parson may be able to croak anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 of Ansom's long-range airforce in exchange for zero casualties. Before Ansom has the opportunity to decide if he wants to try to attack the Dwagon Fort and lose more units.


What Ansom needs to do is pay the 2.5K Smucker cost for 2-way communication. I'm assuming that's 2-way for a full day. If he doesn't, what could easily happen is the unlead stacks head home and get slaughtered, then Jillian and her group head home, note the Dwagon Fort, path around it (or possibly through it if they can avoid fighting), and wind up back at the column with insufficient move left to head out and try to bust up the Dwagon Fort.

(If he does pay the fees, he can order Jillian to turn Parson's trick back on him when they encounter the Dwagon Fort: go past the outer layer, and attack the wounded Dwagons and the Warlords in the center. Vinnie, at least, would spot the potential.)



All of this, of course, IMHO, YMMV, etc., etc.

-Thayus

[Zhrec]

I love this "for an opener" thing...

[5tephen]

HaHA!

Parson PWNS.
Nice to see Stanley put in his place a little. After a few more results like this, he won't be able to be so dismissive and insulting to Parson, will he?

That won't stop him, of course.

[SteveMB]

If the Air Force is all stacked (which would only happen if they found Jillian quickly and the units with move left all converged on her), then Parson will set the Dwagon Fort out of the way, so that the full fury of the Air Force doesn't descend on it.

Jillian had already been found (by Webinar and Dora) before the air units were sent in to escort her home -- she was "escaped" to a location close to the incursion group to insure that. That indicates that there's no reason for the air units to be spread out. Thus, I don't see Parson getting a chance to pick off isolated stacks of them as they fly over the dwagon wheel of doom (assuming that he was able to find a seven-hex forest ring in the right place for that anyway).

What Ansom needs to do is pay the 2.5K Smucker cost for 2-way communication. I'm assuming that's 2-way for a full day.

My assumption is that a "Thinkagram" is a single message (or a single message with a single reply for two-way).

[jmsl]

Parson likes to live far too dangerously trying to show off with his "Oh nothing much .... pause ... 50 siege units destroyed" bit. If Wanda hadn't made the ultimate sacrifice, he might not have made it through the whole thing. Now he's probably got enough credibility to be safe, but if he challenges Stanley too much, I don't know that Stanley has the self-control to keep from punishing his super warlord.

I am stuck wondering just how this will all play out down the line. Will Parson keep "following orders" and helping Stanley or betray him? Will Wanda and or Jillian wind up having to take down Parson as part of a new side's creation? I don't really care about the strategy or war, except for the cute or sad fight scenes, but the soap opera of potential intrigue has me very hooked.

It's almost "better" getting one or two pages a week, because we get to speculate and suffer waiting for revelation. (Very D/s, really, with the extended teases, which is part of what makes that so enjoyable... but that veers outside of this forum's topic dramatically! ) If we were reading this in book form for the first time, there wouldn't be nearly as much to talk about, because we could just turn the page. Though popular fiction doesn't ever seem to lack from fan speculation...

Thus endeth my unfocused ramblings!

[Flakey]

Parson likes to live far too dangerously trying to show off with his "Oh nothing much .... pause ... 50 siege units destroyed" bit. If Wanda hadn't made the ultimate sacrifice, he might not have made it through the whole thing. Now he's probably got enough credibility to be safe, but if he challenges Stanley too much, I don't know that Stanley has the self-control to keep from punishing his super warlord.

I am not sure if its living dangerously. Parson still really does not grasp the situation hes in. Hes doing this as the whole thing is a dream, and can not really hurt him type situation. Dispite Stanley being able to order him around, literally getting him to shut up. He can not take Stanley as a threat to him seriously. Apart from that I agree with you. His own atitude still makes himself the biggest danger he faces. Unless Wanda gives him another talk and it sinks in a bit. He is likely to piss Stanley off again in the near future.

[Monan]

Oh, I also find it amusing the "wins" can start accruing on the defense side of the turn. (Assuming, of course, that defensive wins accrue experience.)

I think a unit gets minimal experience for being in a battle where they win and enact no casualties on the enemy, like in Ogre Battle 64. And if there is only one unit surviving let him get that exp. That still is a lot less units you'd be facing later. :D

[Monan]

Parson pwned them. I knew he had it in him. This is truly a pwn and not just an own.

Stanley should get an evilgasm right now.

Looking at Stanley's outfit and look of joy at the begining of this strip i'm sure he had his evilgasm somewhere inbetween the last 3-4 strips. ;)

[Monan]

Hopefully the 'destroy & withdraw' tactic doesn't boost the opposition warlords levels to much.

you're forgetting that many of the opposition units are getting smoked as a battle goes on and you have to assume that warlords are part of those units. there are some warlords left over but i doubt that they will get much exp from winning a battle where they did not croak any of the enemy. I do understand your concern and it is probnably something Parson nor we were aware of, but i don't think it will be a center of gravity.

[Monan]

For like the past 10 or so comics. Maybe more. We have been waiting for _this moment_. The moment that stanly is just floored by Parson's performance. That "Um" was the most satisfactory line thus far. I was laughing so hard...it was an evil laugh too.


PS: Alot of gamers are evil *Insert appropriate curseword*s. They will be happy, and they will laugh manically when they crush their enemies.

I agree!

Conan what is best in life?

"To crush your enemies!
See them driven before you!
And to hear the lamentations of their women!"

[Bummer]

As far as Wanda's stunned comment goes (the "That's what you did?" part), I think she's probably amazed at what he accomplished and at the same time a little upset. She just spent some time getting Stanley calm and ready for this conversation, then she realizes that she probably could have avoided some hard work if she had gotten a little more information from Parson first...

[Gitman00]

Can't wait to see what the other half of Parson's plan is. I've seen some good speculation; I guess I'm in the "Let Ansom dash himself on the dwagons at full health like waves on the Cliffs of Moher" camp

Oh, and Monan? You may want to learn to use that "edit" button rather than posting four times in a row.

[benthehater]

I think it's mostly the former; the latter seemed to me to be a measure taken in extremis. Not that I think Wanda has anything against using sex to manipulate people (there was a clear erotic element, if not actual sexual activity, in her psychological work-over of Jillian), but giving sexual favors to Stanley risks creating a precedent for a situation she will have difficulty controlling (i.e. if he gets the idea that she's available to him, she'll have to either give him what he wants whenever he wants it or expend some of her manipulative ability fending him off).

Of course, Stanley is arrogant enough in my pov to end the suggested "encounter" with something like, "That was nice, kid, but don't go reading anything into it. Onto the Sitch Room."

[benthehater]

Stanley evidently did so, via "sorta" regicide (whatever that is, exactly).


Perhaps because Wanda convinces him that whatever he ends up doing at her suggestion was really his idea all along. From that point of view, Wanda would seem to be an utterly loyal and unambitious administrator.

Or the fact that even if she could overthrow him, it's possible she couldn't weild (be attuned to (wait, did I spell weild wrong? wield?)) the Arkenhammer, and would therefore be surrounded by suddenly untamed Dwagons that couldn't be commanded.

[Ultimatum479]

Gobwin Knob could have a problem. Parson doesn't need to level up the decaying warlords, no, but what about himself? If he doesn't officially win any battles, will _he_ never level up? I think he needs to level, considering his currently crappy leadership bonus.

And, yes, I before E 'n' all, benthehater.

[ErikZ]

The whole reason the attacks worked so well is that the locals cling to the idea that you *need* to promote your warlords.

Just like you're doing.

What does it matter what levels your warlords are if you win anyway?

[BFJT]

If he doesn't officially win any battles, will _he_ never level up?

Hahaha you forgot about one of Vinnie's bats...that has got to be at least....worth...one...exp...now only if he could croke a couple more thousand bats we are in good shape

[rosebud]

You did not get it... too competent and Stanley may disband Parson for fear of him overthrowing Stanley...

Unless Parson can wield the Arkenhammer, there would be no point in overthrow any time soon. With the Dragons (and, remember, they WILL defend him to their deaths), Stanley does not have to fear Parson. And provided Stanley does not get in Parson's way (which currently seems manageable), Parson has no reason to try to overthrow him. Without the dragons, Parson has no fighting force.

We are far, far too early in this game to have a clue what is happening or where things are going. There's no strategic point in ruining things when you're still in danger, and Stanley has already showed that he has command control over Parson. It's Wanda that's an issue, and she's been compliant.

[rosebud]

Wanda gave Parson that *warn* look after he started; perhaps she realized what he was doing and thought it was a foolish risk (which is true, really, but he did get away with it).

Huh? Parson needs Stanley to view him as competent and trust him. Wanda can't be "massaging" him every turn to keep Stanley out of the way. Sure, Parson is having fun, but he's not baiting or being unreasonable. Nor is Parson unaware that Ansom still has a LOT of army left. Parson knows he needs to exploit every advantage to not only win the battle for the city but also extract as high a toll as possible since the next battles will be reconquering lost cities.

doubt anybody realizes this yet, not even Wanda or Vinnie.

Ansom makes it clear that they plan to use the siege equipment, and both Wanda and Vinnie know the battle plans. So, yes, they both realize that no siege equipment means a change of plans. And Parson knows that Sizemore knows a LOT about the tunnels, so the great thing here is Sizemore's stature grows considerably in the next stage of the battle.

What is Charlie gonna do when he realizes exactly what he just signed up to face? What is Vinnie gonna do when he realizes Ansom is in deep, deep trouble? What is the coalition gonna do when they realize they're getting annihilated to no gain?

I really dislike Charlie since he's such a darn wildcard. We do NOT know what the archon abilities are at all. As for Vinnie, if you're in the battle, you're in the battle. You do what you can. As for Ansom, the army lost its siege, but they are still 25 times as large a force, so don't start counting them out. Parson needs EVERY advantage he has to stay alive and defeat them. One victory does not a war win.

So, it does seem that Parson made a wise move in not waiting on Stanley.

Wanda TOLD him to start the turn at dawn. She specifically expected him to move. She knew that Stanley has no head for strategy, that Parson had a plan, and that for better or for worse, she needed to let Parson execute it.

This business with leveling is presumably the reason hit and run tactics are uncommon in Erfworld, and why it was so unexpected: if warlords are as important as we suppose, it is crucial to have them level up during a campaign.

If a single marbit with a single arrow can croak a warlord, this leveling thing can't be that important.

Parson likes to live far too dangerously trying to show off with his "Oh nothing much .... pause ... 50 siege units destroyed" bit.

As I said in this post, no, Parson needs to be taken seriously. That's not living dangerously, that's ensuring he lives.

Parson still really does not grasp the situation hes in.

The current set of strips should have an impact on the dynamics. It seems premature to say this until we see how that plays out. He's still very much feeling around -- it's only his, what, third day here? At least give him a week to get adjusted!

Parson doesn't need to level up the decaying warlords, no, but what about himself? If he doesn't officially win any battles, will _he_ never level up?

If he gets experience for ambushing every party that tries to attack his A dwagon stick, he'll be fine soon. Anyhow, he needs to be alive first and worry about the other niceties later. Massively outnumbered, it doesn't matter what your level is if you're dead. And if he can game this siege, I'm sure he can game getting MAXed out in stats in a day or two when he does not have to worry about staying alive. Exploiting loopholes in leveling is one of the most basic things in strategy games.

[fractal]

As I said in this post, no, Parson needs to be taken seriously. That's not living dangerously, that's ensuring he lives.

That's hardly a reason to be flippant. I imagine a matter-of-fact, "I destroyed around 50 siege units today, without any losses. I intend to do better once I'm more familiar with the rules." would absolutely get his point across to Stanley. It would remind Stanley that he was summoned to be the perfect warlord, and it might even get him some training (assuming that Stanley even has anyone good at that - Stanley himself clearly understands the rules, but may not be a good teacher).

[rosebud]

I imagine a matter-of-fact, "I destroyed around 50 siege units today, without any losses. I intend to do better once I'm more familiar with the rules." would absolutely get his point across to Stanley.

That would be an interesting approach. Curious to see if he ever reaches that point. The world here, in general, seems a bit less mature. (And I'm curious if that affects how people are expected to act, too.)

Given his current job status, he does not seem to be used to much career management. Maybe he'll learn some here.

[Monan]

There is some question as to how being disbanded would affect Parson, tho.

Great question. I doubt that we will ever know the answer cause the subject will only be approached as it previously was approached, as a threat. I think the answer will rest with the two creators of the strip.

Dude Vinnie looks like a Vampire but does not have most of the other qualities (such as not being able to go into the sunlight) so if he is one then it is obviously different from a traditional one and therefore may not be an undead... The forum already went over this...

There are lots of versions of vampires. I mean in Blade the Vampires are undead, but can not be killed by a wooden stake through the heart. You need silver. Vinnie also has a coffin in one of the previous strips, i forgot which one, but he has one. So the counterpoint that Vinnie is undead and Ansom's side has undead also stands.

[factotum]

I mean in Blade the Vampires are undead, but can not be killed by a wooden stake through the heart.

They can also appear in daylight, given a sufficiently high factor sun block (leastways, that's what happened in the first movie...).

[Freederick]

However, the fact that parson destroyed fifty siege units without losing a single dagon popped Stanley from furious to confused.

A single Dagon? That's quite impressive, taming an elder god to work for Stanley. This Parson fellow quite impresses me.

Are you familiar with the expression "Spelling Nazi"?