Erfworld 61 - Page 55

[xKiv]

Hahaha you forgot about one of Vinnie's bats...that has got to be at least....worth...one...exp...now only if he could croke a couple more thousand bats we are in good shape

But he just started, so he's what - level one?
That 1 XP might[1] be just enough for level 2 ;-)

[1] slightly obscurey-referential note: it is "might", not "may"

[Ganurath]

"For an opener."

Was I the only one who thought that that facial expression was scary as boop?

[Freederick]

I love the *warn* expression in panel 4 -- "Don't screw this up", and perhaps a dash of "You'd better have made this worth it, or you won't need to worry about what he's going to do to you."

I think it was "Don't you dare tell him I told you to move without waiting for him." see Erfworld 47, panel 12

I’m guessing that it has something to do with ambushing Ansom’s air units when he desperately orders them back to the column to provide air support. Perhaps Parson has positioned his dwagons between the column and the incursion group so the air units will unsuspectingly run right into them.

Heh... It'll be "Guess who can't get enough of our dungeon slop?" all over again.

[Freederick]

Hopefully the 'destroy & withdraw' tactic doesn't boost the opposition warlords levels to much.

There were no warlords with these stacks, AFAWK.

I think someone brought up the visual fact of "half vampire" due to his one fang and one pointed ear, but I don't know if that was settled as "good observation" or "bad art blunder"

Actually, it was half-settled as half of either. See here.

[Rufus]

I'm guessing we'll see a reverse exploit of the selective engagement mechanic on Ansom's turn:

Since Ansom's units don't have warlords, they cannot selectively engage. Because of the fog of war, they can't easily steer around Ansom's units. So Parson's set up a gauntlet of dwagons hidden in heavy trees, and dropped the warlords off with them. As Ansom's units pass by, the dwagons can then fleece them of any remaining fliers or other key units.

[xKiv]

I'm guessing we'll see a reverse exploit of the selective engagement mechanic on Ansom's turn:

Since Ansom's units don't have warlords, they cannot selectively engage. Because of the fog of war, they can't easily steer around Ansom's units. So Parson's set up a gauntlet of dwagons hidden in heavy trees, and dropped the warlords off with them. As Ansom's units pass by, the dwagons can then fleece them of any remaining fliers or other key units.

AND, since the dwagons *do* have warlords with them, they can opt to do this only to stacks that are not too powerful, iiuic.
Nice.

[Ganurath]

Looks like Leeroy and friends will be getting their XP after all.

[Wolf53226]

Who's really to say if Parson can level anyway. We make the assumption that because he is now in the world that he will behave as if he has always been there, but that may not be true.

[magney]

AND, since the dwagons *do* have warlords with them, they can opt to do this only to stacks that are not too powerful, iiuic.
Nice.

Not quite. "Flying stacks with a commander may selectively engage non-fliers on their own turn" (emphasis added). We're talking about Ansom's turn here - Stanley's dwagon-warlord stacks don't have the option of selective engagement on Ansom's turn.

[VariaVespasa]

Couple items- Parson said "at ALMOST no cost", not at NO cost, so I would expect phase 2 to involve some real combat. So taking a major bite out of the enemy air force, even at the cost of a few dwagons, may well be what he has in mind next. It would be well worth it.

And second item- Do Ansom and co know that Stanley has the lookamancer set-up and thus the intel advantage or not? If not then the sheer cuteness of Parsons attacks may give it away. What they can do about it is another question, of course.

[SteveMB]

And second item- Do Ansom and co know that Stanley has the lookamancer set-up and thus the intel advantage or not? If not then the sheer cuteness of Parsons attacks may give it away. What they can do about it is another question, of course.

I'm assuming that they don't. The best evidence I can think of for this is that, if the Coalition knew that Stanley had an all-seeing-eye view of the area, Jillian's repeated escapes wouldn't be suspicious -- they'd be flat-out preposterous.

The sudden black eye, with more apparently to follow, will be a clue that Stanley has gotten himself some competent, an even ingenious, leadership. That speech where Ansom assured his allies that one reason their victory is assured is because Stanley "has squandered his leadership corps" may come back to bite him in the butt.

[erewhon]

This tactic only works if ansom a total nut. We now both armies - the fliers and the column - are both to strong for a normal attack, even by dwagons.

This is correct, as stated in canon.

This trick Parson uses only works because there were no fliers and the column was in heavy threes. Ansom only needs to call back his fliers and reunite them with the column (which Wnsom should do on his next turn).

While this can be done, it won't even slow Parson down. Note he has movement supremacy combined with battlespace awareness AND perfect CCC. He can take his attack stacks up to the column, regardless of air cover, attrit as much as he is able, and withdraw at will. He attacks only where Ansom is weak.

He attrits air cover units first, then damp-mops whatever he just exposed. Over and over and over....

As long as he withdraws back into the fog of war, Ansom can't find him to reduce him, and even if he does, Ansom's long-range units that can attack in trees are wimpy or rare.

Ansom's ONLY hope is to rush Gobwin Knob and try to reduce the heaviest fortification on the planet without benefit of seige units.

There's a reason what Parson is doing is an 'exploit'. It is brutal. He wasn't kidding when he told Wanda it was huge. :)

And Goblin Knob can still be taken by brutal force and wasting troops en large.

Correct. Indeed, that's Ansom's only hope. He has to endure the attrition, pay the butcher's bill, and go head-on as fast as possible against a very strong fortification.

The issue then becomes, can he keep his allies together in that sort of a colossal bloodbath?

[Ganurath]

The issue then becomes, can he keep his allies together in that sort of a colossal bloodbath?

I doubt the Shady, Luckless, Schlemiel, or Lofty Elves will stick around. If Ansom's counterattack to the dragons is based on Forest-Capable units, I can see the Woodsey Elves bailing after being drawn into a trap. Not wanting to have to pick up the slack of their comrades, the Superfluous Elves will leave. I'd imagine one or two of the Marbit leaders leaving if their men took heavy casualties during the raids. This leaves Ansom with the Eager Elves, a fraction of the Marbits, the forces of Vinny and Charlie, Zamussels, and the forces of Jetstone itself. Although, It'd be interesting if the Shady Elves waited until the last second to leave, turning things in favor of Gobwin Knob and gaining an ally for SW&P.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

I wouldn't count Ansom out just yet...while his plan has gone to hell in a handbasket by Parson 'giving him the business'...I think that his forces will turn around and start to give them a real run for their money.

I do think that you are at least partially correct though. Many of his allies will abandon the cause for fear of losing too many units against an apparently superior foe...Once Ansom's forces are pretty much down to those most loyal, I think that Vinnie will be set loose and we will see a real battle...once you are not hampered by an overabundance of forces...you can be a bit more mobile...sometimes it is harder to attack a smaller force that can be adequitely controlled than an enormous mob that is too big to manuver effectively.

Just look at Warhammer 40k as an example...when armies rely on mobility, having swarms of troops works against your plans. Squads become too large to move about the battlefield easily, and one wrong move can cut off your units from doing what they need to do because your heavy cannot get through the mob of 30+ units between them and their target. Sacle back the battle, and you will see the force be much more mobile and able to adapt to changing circumstances much more easily than with 200+ units on the field in their path.

[Vreejack]

As far as Wanda's stunned comment goes (the "That's what you did?" part), I think she's probably amazed at what he accomplished and at the same time a little upset. She just spent some time getting Stanley calm and ready for this conversation, then she realizes that she probably could have avoided some hard work if she had gotten a little more information from Parson first...

This is an important observation. When Wanda stormed off to interdict Stanley she seemed to have something in particular in mind when she accepted Parson's comments without question. Otherwise she would not have been so surprised by what he actually did. Parson said he was going to change the whole course of the battle, so she should not have been shocked unless she had something else, something particular, in mind.

Unless she just hadn't given it much thought and assumed that Parson was exaggerating. I am not sure if that would be in character for her or not. She is very cynical and trusts to her own abilities more than anything else.

[kreszantas]

I wouldn't count Ansom out just yet...while his plan has gone to hell in a handbasket by Parson 'giving him the business'...I think that his forces will turn around and start to give them a real run for their money.

I do think that you are at least partially correct though. Many of his allies will abandon the cause for fear of losing too many units against an apparently superior foe...Once Ansom's forces are pretty much down to those most loyal, I think that Vinnie will be set loose and we will see a real battle...once you are not hampered by an overabundance of forces...you can be a bit more mobile...sometimes it is harder to attack a smaller force that can be adequitely controlled than an enormous mob that is too big to manuver effectively.

Just look at Warhammer 40k as an example...when armies rely on mobility, having swarms of troops works against your plans. Squads become too large to move about the battlefield easily, and one wrong move can cut off your units from doing what they need to do because your heavy cannot get through the mob of 30+ units between them and their target. Sacle back the battle, and you will see the force be much more mobile and able to adapt to changing circumstances much more easily than with 200+ units on the field in their path.

Well its large right now because the original "feint" was to split the forces on this or next turn; therefore you wont have a bad mob problem, and most likely Webinar and Dora would be involved in that part however got diverted due to the Jillian rescue mission. Parson just caught him at the right time when the forces are flyer/non-flyer split and the feint had not split yet. The "false" wins also gave Ansom a superiority attitude thus they all celebrated; however reality will set in, thus we may see his reaction this turn when it starts.

[JazzManJim]

Gobwin Knob could have a problem. Parson doesn't need to level up the decaying warlords, no, but what about himself? If he doesn't officially win any battles, will _he_ never level up? I think he needs to level, considering his currently crappy leadership bonus.

I'm not convinced, given his current position, that he needs much of a leadership bonus. He's not actually leading troops in the field.

[Douglas]

According to this Klog, his position as Chief Warlord means his leadership bonus is applied to ALL Gobwin Knob forces regardless of whether he's there to lead them in person. Given that, levelling himself up would be a Very Good Idea if it could be done safely without losing anything too important in exchange.

[Vreejack]

According to this Klog, his position as Chief Warlord means his leadership bonus is applied to ALL Gobwin Knob forces regardless of whether he's there to lead them in person. Given that, levelling himself up would be a Very Good Idea if it could be done safely without losing anything too important in exchange.

Would that even improve his command bonus? It's an interesting question. Apparently Erfword's command bonus is based purely on the "presence" of the commander, and not on their actual ability to intelligently command troops. Since leveling is supposed to represent an increase in experience, how would that effect his presence?

What if ranking commanders actually is tied directly to what they have learned on the field? Not that doesn't make any sense because uncroaked do not actually learn anything. Somehow the ranks must add to this ephemeral "command bonus" in a way that is not clear.

Perhaps Parson is already like, rank 50 or something and he will never get more, or perhaps fate will rear its head and as Parson gains experience points he also starts to lose weight and build muscle, thereby improving his presence.

[SteveMB]

Would that even improve his command bonus? It's an interesting question. Apparently Erfword's command bonus is based purely on the "presence" of the commander, and not on their actual ability to intelligently command troops. Since leveling is supposed to represent an increase in experience, how would that effect his presence?

I would think that a record of racking up victories will improve one's effective presence.

[Vreejack]

I would think that a record of racking up victories will improve one's effective presence.

I had discounted that, but I suppose that reputation is worth something after all.

[Airshark]

Hopefully the 'destroy & withdraw' tactic doesn't boost the opposition warlords levels to much.

There were no opposition warlords. Parson mentions that in his Klog as giving him an advantage, because he can choose when/where to withdraw, and they can't.

[erewhon]

According to this Klog, his position as Chief Warlord means his leadership bonus is applied to ALL Gobwin Knob forces regardless of whether he's there to lead them in person. Given that, levelling himself up would be a Very Good Idea if it could be done safely without losing anything too important in exchange.

I wonder if Parson's bonus stacks with other Warlord bonuses?

If so, that's pretty huge. Just by existing, Parson gives all his Warlords +2 ranks.

Ranks? Levels? Bonus? Hrrrrm. :D

[Hecore]

I wonder if Parson's bonus stacks with other Warlord bonuses?

If so, that's pretty huge. Just by existing, Parson gives all his Warlords +2 ranks.

Ranks? Levels? Bonus? Hrrrrm. :D

Seeing as Ansom is chief warlord for the other side I'd assume that Ansom already gives a bonus to his troops.

In fact, I'm thinking that a chief warlord gives bonuses to all troops and warlords under the command of a chief warlord also give additional bonuses to troops. For example, if Lord Manpower had a bonus of 5 and was controlling a stack of dwagons, the dwagons would get an effective bonus of 7. If the dwagons had no commander in the stack they would only get a bonus of 2.

However, it could work that only the largest bonus applies to troops. A stack could have 3 warlords (an 8, a 6, and a 2) and would be comanded by a chief warlord that had a rank of 5. The bonus to the stack would be 8.

I am wondering how the rank applies to troops. I think it's a straight boost to all stats (Move*, Hits, Combat and Defense, as seen in Klog #4), despite the fact that it favors weaker units^. A percentage boost is too small, and assuming that bonus doesn't stack then the difference between the weakest and strongest warlords still isn't that huge. Considering what Jillian said to the commanders in page 50 it is not unreasonable to think that a bonus of 5 is average. Therefore the difference in bonus points between 2 average commanders would be rather minimal. The points still remain very important -- in matched battles the higher ranked commander would usually win, and for stacks without a commander the rank of a chief warlord would be vital.




*I think it might not apply to move - it seems more logical to apply either to Hits, Combat and Defense or just Combat and Defense.

^How many commanders are you going to commit to weak units? That's just asking them to get picked off.