New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    tomaO2's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    I couldn't help but notice the lack when I looked at the last panel of today's comic. Looking over the pages he clearly had them at the beginning but around page 32 or so they disappeared. I can understand not using them for more distant shots. You don't have to bother all the time but when you do close ups on his face they really should still be there.

    Unless this is a sign that Parson is turning into an Elfworld units as time goes on...

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    Do you see anyone else with pupils...

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    He lacks pupils in most the closeups. Look at previous pages.

    I have to go back to page 35 to see a well lit closeup with pupils. He does have a hint of them in some later strips, though. It is curious that from page 23 and behind, he does have pupils regularly.

    It is interesting observation, but without further data or confirmation, it seems hard to draw a conclusion right now about whether it is an artistic evolution or an intentional change with a particular meaning.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    It may also have something to do with the lighting in that shot.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    tomaO2's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    Okay, when I suggested that Parson lost his pupils because he's becoming an Elfworld unit, that was a joke more then anything.

    I also failed to notice he as them on the 35 page.

    It's probably for simplicity reasons but still... Parson looks BETTER with pupils. I think so anyway. When the detail is added to them. When they reflect the light they really add something. The single color of the other characters are dull. Plus, it's the one thing that makes him look different then everyone else.

    If I were an Elfworld character that would be the thing that would stand out the most if I looked at his face. Heck as a real person they stood out. In page 14 his eyes are the first thing that really drew me to him on that last pannel.

    It may be a small detail but I miss it. Especially with closeup scenes like the one on page 55.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Void, usually
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    Okay, when I suggested that Parson lost his pupils because he's becoming an Elfworld unit, that was a joke more then anything.
    Why? That seems probable. Look at the other aspects of his depiction.
    Work in progress.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The frozen wastes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    He seems to have lost them, and many of his other details, since he spent his first night in Erfworld. Also, why do you keep typin' "Elfworld", dude? I thought only my students did the r/l switcheroo. I think you'll find "Erfworld" is a cutification of "Earthworld".
    "River" cancels eat: Food is problematic.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    I couldn't help but notice the lack when I looked at the last panel of today's comic. Looking over the pages he clearly had them at the beginning but around page 32 or so they disappeared.
    A wizard An eyemancer did it.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    A2
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    I have to say this is the oddest forum I have ever seen.
    Truly awesome Ark Tamaeus avatar by Bryn. Full size version here.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    I noticed the eye thing just now, actually.

    I was sort of thinking that characters with more human eyes (Parson, Wanda, Jillian) might be PC characters or something- they have the whites of their eyes, whereas native Erfworlders(?) have black circles instead.

    Maybe these three characters all were accidental arrivals to Erfworld... and the loss of their pupils signifies that they are losing/have lost their ability to return? In Klog #5, Parson notes, "Wanda ducked question about her origin."

    Then again, it could also have something to do with personality or free will... all three seem to be mavericks and a bit rebellious, possibly due to their otherworldly point of view?
    Last edited by Astyanax; 2007-06-24 at 04:19 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astyanax View Post
    I noticed the eye thing just now, actually.

    I was sort of thinking that characters with more human eyes (Parson, Wanda, Jillian) might be PC characters or something- they have the whites of their eyes, whereas native Erfworlders(?) have black circles instead.

    Maybe these three characters all were accidental arrivals to Erfworld... and the loss of their pupils signifies that they are losing/have lost their ability to return? In Klog #5, Parson notes, "Wanda ducked question about her origin."

    Then again, it could also have something to do with personality or free will... all three seem to be mavericks and a bit rebellious, possibly due to their otherworldly point of view?
    I was kinda thinking the same thing. The shady elf chick also seemed to have 'real' eyes in a way, though that may have just been an art thing. Wanda and Jillian could be 'real world' people...that would be an explination, but then how would you recify that with Wanda asking what a child was?

    She seemed genuinly confused by that statement. If she was from the 'real world' she has probably lost her memories and has become more a part of Erfworld than anything...she and Jillian probably arrived around the same time. It is possible that Parson's pupils have dissapeared because he is becomming one with Erfworld, and as he stays longer, he will forget more and more. Or his lack of pupils could just be that he hasn't been shown in close enough proximity to the 'camera' to justify drawing in that detail. Do note that Wanda and even Parson's fingers sometimes disappear in shots that are far enough away, but are there in close up shots.

    I do like the theory that Wanda is a person like Parson...it would likely explain a bit about her...

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    quick note...the uncroaked warlords also have white eyes with a colored iris and no pupil. Perhaps it is just a stylistic choice...perhaps they are indicative of a certian tribe...

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Scientivore's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    A similar question has come up before about characters' sometimes mitten-hands. I think that it's just that Jamie is using an emotional art style for Erfworld. Details are there when they're important and gone when they're not. An eye only needs one color to show that it's open. Adding a second color is enough to show the direction that the character is looking. I haven't studied drawing but I think that it takes a fully depicted eye to show how far into the distance a character is focusing.

    I've heard that other primates have dark eyes (no white) and don't follow their fellows' eyes to see what they're looking at. I've also heard that we have considerable brain power set aside just for interpreting people's bodies, then another big chunk just for faces, then another just for eyes. Where other people are looking is so unusually important to us as a species that it has apparently affected the biology of our eyes and our brains.
    Last edited by Scientivore; 2007-06-24 at 11:23 AM.
    My avatar is a remix that I made of Prince Ansom. Resource credit:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Snag some Erfworld avatars and backgrounds, make some lolerfs and motivators (or demotivators), read my Erfworld fanmix, or check out my latest spotlight on an under-discussed webcomic: Head Trip (Scilight #13)!

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    Ack, the page didn't load and I lost my first attempt, so I'll be more brief this time (although brevity was never my strong point, so I have no doubt it will come out long anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by Scientivore View Post
    I've also heard that we have considerable brain power set aside just for interpreting people's bodies, then another big chunk just for faces, then another just for eyes. Where other people are looking is so unusually important to us as a species that it has apparently affected the biology of our eyes and our brains.
    The way I understand it is that current theory suggests we can divide visual processing into two major visual processing systems: one for processing faces, and one for processing just about everything else (called object perception for simplicity). There's pretty simple evidence to support this in the double dissociation between prosopagnosia (a face perception disorder wherein face recognition is impaired but recognition of other objects tends to remain intact) and apperceptive agnosia (a disorder in which patients are unable to recognize more general shape properties and thus have difficulty recognizing most objects, but can still recognize faces). There are shared mechanisms between the two systems, of course, so you can have patients presenting with both object recognition and face recognition problems if a brain area involved in a shared process has been damaged, as in many other forms of visual agnosias - where, for instance, patients might only recognize objects/faces in one visual field despite seeing in the other or patients might recognize details/features but be unable to integrate them into a coherent "big picture", affecting both objects and faces.

    The main difference between the object- and face-oriented systems has to do with the level of detail upon which we focus. With faces, we have no problem recognizing thousands of different faces and inferring emotion without a second thought because we have processes in place whose purposes are to specifically process absolutely tiny, minute facial details, such as distances between features, lip and eye movements, etc. I suspect that the "chunk for eyes" you mentioned above would be one of these processes, rather than constituting another system separate from face perception, unless there's new data in recent years I haven't heard of (which is entirely possible - neuropsychology is a rapidly growing field and I don't pay it as much attention as I probably should. Unfortunately, it's been a while since I've taken a neuropsychology course and even then my teacher spent far more time talking about synaesthesias and dyslexias, in which she was specialized.). Nonetheless, your point still stands - the fact that we have a dissociable system devoted to face perception is a testament to how important it is to our species.

    {Edited to add: it's not a perfect division between face and non-face; for instance, the same area (the fusiform gyrus) that's involved in face recognition is also used in visual word and number recognition (as in reading), since it also requires rapid processing of minute details. It's reasonable to assume that this is not it's "inherent" use, however, since we've only relatively recently in human history started to read and write. Incidentally, it's quite fascinating to learn about the way systems primarily used for other purposes for thousands of years converge to allow us to read, and demonstrative of the brain's adaptability.}

    Object recognition, in turn, relies more on general shapes and less on such minute differences, so we can afford to pay less attention to details to conserve processing power (and the brain is nothing if not amazingly efficient at what it does, at least what it does "below the surface" of cognition). Visually interpreting people's bodies would fall under this system - of that, I'm quite sure - but we may be using the word "interpretation" differently if you meant learned responses to body language or the more cognitive form of interpretation that occurs "above the surface".

    I can't remember more details about the reasoning for the separation of the two systems - I think that there was, for instance, a Charles Gross study that found face-specific neurons in monkeys in the inferior cortex, far away from the primary visual cortex, but I can't find it in my files - but nevertheless, a double dissociation alone is very convincing evidence for division of functions.
    Last edited by Psychonaut; 2007-06-24 at 05:56 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Scientivore's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    That clears up a lot for me. Excellent summary, thank you!
    My avatar is a remix that I made of Prince Ansom. Resource credit:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Snag some Erfworld avatars and backgrounds, make some lolerfs and motivators (or demotivators), read my Erfworld fanmix, or check out my latest spotlight on an under-discussed webcomic: Head Trip (Scilight #13)!

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Wash DC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scientivore View Post
    A similar question has come up before about characters' sometimes mitten-hands. I think that it's just that Jamie is using an emotional art style for Erfworld. Details are there when they're important and gone when they're not. An eye only needs one color to show that it's open. Adding a second color is enough to show the direction that the character is looking. I haven't studied drawing but I think that it takes a fully depicted eye to show how far into the distance a character is focusing...
    The problem with this idea is that there are only 3 characters in Erfworld that have both iris and sclera, and they consistantly have them both - though pupils appear and disappear.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    Quote Originally Posted by berrew View Post
    The problem with this idea is that there are only 3 characters in Erfworld that have both iris and sclera, and they consistantly have them both - though pupils appear and disappear.
    I will say again, some of the uncroaked warlords also have those traits. Those that have been confirmed:

    Wanda
    Jillian
    Parson
    (parson's four friends)
    Manpower (page 2)
    Shady elf warlord (Page 21)
    Lady Phat-Singh (page 27)
    Archduke Ferdinand (page 27)
    (picture of elvis/titian page 35/37)

    It could just be style, but it could also be something greater...we won't know until later. (Leeroy does not and the face of Toast has never been seen)

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Ganurath's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Under the Iron Gauntlet
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    I just figured that that was Parson's "evil thoughts with underlighting" face and left it at that.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Burrito's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Min-ee-soow-tah ya betcha
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What happened to Parson's Pupils?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganurath View Post
    I just figured that that was Parson's "evil thoughts with underlighting" face and left it at that.
    I don't know where the "evil" is coming from. Besides that is a totaly different subject, but I do agree with your other point. I think it had more to do with the angle of his face and the light from below washing out the finer details of his eyes.
    ...still keeping my jack boot on the neck of the little man...

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Julio Anejo View Post
    ...Your life isn't going to get any worse...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •