Forgotten Rules

[LTwerewolf]

That would make sense except for market price being affected by things with a shelf life. I allow my players to sell things at full price if they set up a market stand in a place where there may be a market for the particular item and spend the time to sell it.

[Jack_Simth]

That would make sense except for market price being affected by things with a shelf life.

The context to which I'm responding is spellbooks. By default, spellbooks last essentially forever in good conditions (as do magic items of almost all sorts). Yeah, if you're selling bushels of apples or something, there's a lot less waiting involved - there's a pretty solid relationship between the cost of an item and how hard it is to sell (lower-value items are easier to afford, so they're purchased more readily... chat with a realtor sometime about how long they go between sales, then talk to a car salesman with the same question, then talk to a furniture salesman with the same question, then the person sitting behind the deli counter - the realtor will often go weeks to months between sales... and be working on several properties; the person on the car lot will talk to a lot of people in a day, but rarely make more than a small number of sales in a week; the furniture person is liable to make a few sales a day; meanwhile, the person behind the deli counter loses track of sales per hour around lunchtime in most cases).

I allow my players to sell things at full price if they set up a market stand in a place where there may be a market for the particular item and spend the time to sell it.

Do you have a system for how long it takes? I'd be inclined to figure out what they'd make with Profession(Salesman) (or related) checks over a period of time trying to sell the item, and when that reaches half the value of the item they're trying to sell, they get full market value for it.

[asnys]

There's a rule for the inverse of energy drain, giving you a "positive level". As far as I know, it was never actually used by any monster.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Half price is what adventurers get when they're selling relatively quickly to move on to the next conquest. Market price is what the guy who spends six years with the item sitting on his shelf collecting dust gets for being patient and waiting for the adventurer that actually is willing to part with that price because he wants it right now.

Same goes for wizard's spellbooks. The 50 gp per spell level is what they charge when the wizard who needs a particular spell tomorrow drops by... you know, after six months of nobody having enough to rent a peek.

The spell market is more in the service sector than the merchandise sector.

I don't see any reason wizards in a college or academy wouldn't charge the same to any apprentice, acolyte, or student or colleague from a different department. They're obviously not going to bother with cantrips unless some SotAO half-caster stumbles onto campus but otherwise a lack of homogeny amongst the wizards there creates a potential market that any wizard would be a fool to ignore, given the costs associated with wizardry. You make scrolls and rent your book to anyone interested because you need every shiny copper on which you can get your arcane mitts. You then spend pretty much all of it on research materials and renting other wizards' books to expand your knowledge. You also trade spells one-for-one with any wizard offering the opportunity.

That or you go adventuring and use the obscene profits from that to fund your studies.

[LTwerewolf]

Do you have a system for how long it takes? I'd be inclined to figure out what they'd make with Profession(Salesman) (or related) checks over a period of time trying to sell the item, and when that reaches half the value of the item they're trying to sell, they get full market value for it.

The system takes into account city size (you divide time by size rank of city). You can do a haggle (diplomacy), gather information, or profession (merchant). DC for selling is 10 for every 1000. Something that's 50,000 is 500. It's a cumulative total, so as soon as you hit the dc, it's then sold. Can make one check per item type per day (within reason). If you have 16 +1 longswords, you can only make a check on 1 of them at a time.

Divide the check (then round up to the nearest 1) as follows:
Thorp 0.5 (double the time)
Hamlet 1
Village 1.5
Small town 2
Large town 2.5
Small city 5
Large city 6
Metropolis 8


The above 500 in a metropolis would be 63 DC, which is easily doable in a few days. It gets drastically harder as the place gets smaller. I also don't allow players to stack ridiculous bonuses to skills, so that abuse isn't a thing.

[Khedrac]

There's a rule for the inverse of energy drain, giving you a "positive level". As far as I know, it was never actually used by any monster.

OK that one is totally new to me - where on Oerth/Toril/etc. is it buried?

Very nice find.

[zergling.exe]

OK that one is totally new to me - where on Oerth/Toril/etc. is it buried?

Very nice find.

I believe it is in the glossary of MM3+

edit: Nvm, it's not in those. I know I've seen it but can't remember where...

[Jowgen]

I believe it is in the glossary of MM3+

edit: Nvm, it's not in those. I know I've seen it but can't remember where...

Bastion of Broken souls' Soul Totem artifact does the positive level thing. There may be others?

[ace rooster]

The rules for selling items are under the heading "selling loot". As far as I am aware there are no rules for selling items that you did not loot. ie, no selling spells, starting equipment, or any items that you craft, without DM approval.

[asnys]

OK that one is totally new to me - where on Oerth/Toril/etc. is it buried?

Very nice find.

Called an energy charge.

And thanks.

[Chronikoce]

The rules for selling items are under the heading "selling loot". As far as I am aware there are no rules for selling items that you did not loot. ie, no selling spells, starting equipment, or any items that you craft, without DM approval.

What if my wizards backstory involves killing and looting a rival apprentice then selling his spellbook to gain enough funds to leave town before the authorities come after him?

[ace rooster]

What if my wizards backstory involves killing and looting a rival apprentice then selling his spellbook to gain enough funds to leave town before the authorities come after him?

So you are basically saying that your backstory says that you have more money, so you should start with more money? If you can make that fly with your DM, you should probably get a pig as a mount. If the DM ran a solo session with you beforehand then this would be fine, and grant ~300gp just like any other CR 1 encounter.

The point is that you are only guaranteed to be able to sell stuff that the DM has given you. This is rarely relevant, but means that about 95% of wealth cheese does not work RAW.


Oh, and while I'm at it, Fabricate is limited to one material, which cannot change. This means that it cannot do any crafts that require mixing, heating, cooling, hammering (if this changes the material, which it often does) or assembling items that need parts of more than one material.

[Inevitability]

So you are basically saying that your backstory says that you have more money, so you should start with more money? If you can make that fly with your DM, you should probably get a pig as a mount. If the DM ran a solo session with you beforehand then this would be fine, and grant ~300gp just like any other CR 1 encounter.

I think he means he got his spellbook (a class feature) by killing an NPC and stealing said NPC's spellbook (backstory). It's a pure case of refluffing.

[Janthkin]

Here's one I had forgotten until today: you can't Sneak Attack a creature that has Concealment, from whatever source.

[nedz]

That would make sense except for market price being affected by things with a shelf life. I allow my players to sell things at full price if they set up a market stand in a place where there may be a market for the particular item and spend the time to sell it.

In one game I allowed the PCs to make Diplomacy rolls to try and improve the prices on the market. Now this is dangerous I know, but they were all Dwarves who has dumped Cha and not invested any ranks here. When one guy got a negative result I ruled that he had talked himself into paying over the odds for one item.

I think he means he got his spellbook (a class feature) by killing an NPC and stealing said NPC's spellbook (backstory). It's a pure case of refluffing.

I thought he was saying that he got himself an extra spell book via his backstory - just to sell for more cash. Personally I'd cancel this out with a debt or something just to balance the starting resources. Now there's nothing wrong in doing this sort of thing in game, just not before we start.

[Coidzor]

In one game I allowed the PCs to make Diplomacy rolls to try and improve the prices on the market. Now this is dangerous I know, but they were all Dwarves who has dumped Cha and not invested any ranks here. When one guy got a negative result I ruled that he had talked himself into paying over the odds for one item.

Ever read Soul Music by Terry Pratchett?

[nedz]

Ever read Soul Music by Terry Pratchett?

Nope

12345679

[Manyasone]

Nope

12345679

Glod Glodson is your dwarf right there

[ahenobarbi]

If you claim your character is from an region of Faerun you can choose between getting extra 100gp or race & region dependent stuff (some of which is really nice: master work weapons or armor, scrolls, 300gp) you get extra known languages and additional bonus languages. It's a nice power boost for beginners adventurers.

[Chronikoce]

I thought he was saying that he got himself an extra spell book via his backstory - just to sell for more cash. Personally I'd cancel this out with a debt or something just to balance the starting resources. Now there's nothing wrong in doing this sort of thing in game, just not before we start.

I intended it to mean how I acquired my base Spellbook. So you would only start with a single Spellbook but that single Spellbook was acquired through conquest and could therefore be considered loot.

I personally wouldn't use this in any capacity other than interesting story background. I mean I don't play D&D as a merchant simulator so that Spellbook is needed so that I can go save the world on a regular basis.

[Drezius]

If you claim your character is from an region of Faerun you can choose between getting extra 100gp or race & region dependent stuff (some of which is really nice: master work weapons or armor, scrolls, 300gp) you get extra known languages and additional bonus languages. It's a nice power boost for beginners adventurers.

And +2 K(Local) [The region]

[ShurikVch]

A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Note: being helpless don't prevent you from making your normal Reflex save, but to use Evasion... Nope!

[rrwoods]

From http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm --

Class-Related Languages
Clerics, druids, and wizards can choose certain languages as bonus languages even if they’re not on the lists found in the race descriptions. These class-related languages are as follows:

Cleric
Abyssal, Celestial, Infernal.

Druid
Sylvan.

Wizard
Draconic.

... Are there any non-core classes that do this?

[Thurbane]

AFB, but doesn't Dragonfire Adept and/or Dragon Shaman (possibly in errata) give Draconic as a language option? Or maybe as a bonus language, not 100% sure...

[HunterOfJello]

There's a rule for the inverse of energy drain, giving you a "positive level". As far as I know, it was never actually used by any monster.

I see it in my Monster Manual 3. I really wonder what creature was supposed to be able to give players positive levels now. Anyone know someone who worked on the book who could comment?

Similarly, the bard ability Inspire Greatness gives the party 2 bonus Hit Dice (d10). This feature seems to have been generally soft-banned from the game since I haven't seen that mechanic in any other books.

From http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm --


... Are there any non-core classes that do this?

Raptoran Cleric level 1 racial substitution gives Auran as a bonus language.

[Troacctid]

AFB, but doesn't Dragonfire Adept and/or Dragon Shaman (possibly in errata) give Draconic as a language option? Or maybe as a bonus language, not 100% sure...

Dragon Shamans can choose Draconic as a bonus language regardless of their race.

[torrasque666]

Polymorph doesn't work on Undead or most Constructs as they only work on Living Creatures.

[Starbuck_II]

Polymorph doesn't work on Undead or most Constructs as they only work on Living Creatures.

Except Polymorph any object which lets you give a rock multiple HD by turning it into a manticore.

[torrasque666]

Except Polymorph any object which lets you give a rock multiple HD by turning it into a manticore.

Different target line. Probably should have rephrased as druids without a con score can't use wild shape without a feat.

[zergling.exe]

Different target line. Probably should have rephrased as druids without a con score can't use wild shape without a feat.

Well it looks like we also found that druids can share wildshape with others without any extra abilities.