Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

[Sans.]

Could I get a reply?

[Specter]

Could I get a reply?

Have you considered deeper splits for BS/EK? For example, 5 or 6 levels of EK, 2 of BS, get EK to 7, take BS 3 and 4, go to 9 or 10 EK and take the rest in BS

You mean about this? Well, sure, it's doable. I would never do it because there's nothing I hate more than dead levels ("you reach Wiz6 and get... nothing. Yay!"). But if you're going to do it, you could do EK 10/Wiz 10. 6 ASI's, 6th-level spells, War Magic and three school features. Shouldn't be bad at all.

[Sans.]

Weeeell... it's not completely dead. You get an extra spell slot

[Arkhios]

Weeeell... it's not completely dead. You get an extra spell slot

In fact you get more than that.

Each time you gain a wizard leveI, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spell book.

It's quite funny, actually. It's almost as if many optimizers (no offense) forget these small details such as learning new spells for free.

[Specter]

C'mon boys, don't be so literal.

[JVitor]

GENERAL STRATEGY

- Armor class: As you’ve noticed, EKs are the best defensive Fighters out there. I have mentioned the use of two-handed weapons, but they really shine with a shield in hand. Here’s how AC can work for a STR build (DEX builds should be one point behind with max DEX):
Full plate + shield: 20
Full plate + shield + Defense fighting style: 21
Full plate + shield + Defense fighting style + Shield (spell): 26
Full plate + shield + Defense fighting style + Shield (spell) + Haste or Shield of Faith (obtained through Magic Initiate): 28
Very few builds have this much AC without magic items.

If you have Blur up instead of Shield of Faith, it makes them attack you with disadvantage. If you have Mirror Image, they have to gamble to hit you and not one of your three copies. Both spells are available at level 8, or maybe even earlier if you multiclass Sorc/Wizard.

Specter, could you clarify the AC combo/progression for the High elf EK DEX-based tank. How to form this 1-point behind?

[Specter]

Specter, could you clarify the AC combo/progression for the High elf EK DEX-based tank. How to form this 1-point behind?

If you have 20 in DEX, you will have 19 AC with a shield (DEX + studded armor + shield). A STR fighter would have 20 AC with full plate and shield. That's the one-point difference.

You can also use Mage Armor to get 20 AC, though I don't think that's worth it until higher levels, where you have more spell slots.

[EvilAnagram]

If you have 20 in DEX, you will have 19 AC with a shield (DEX + studded armor + shield). A STR fighter would have 20 AC with full plate and shield. That's the one-point difference.

You can also use Mage Armor to get 20 AC, though I don't think that's worth it until higher levels, where you have more spell slots.

Is mage armor usable with a shield? I'm afb right now.

[PhantomSoul]

Is mage armor usable with a shield? I'm afb right now.

Yes, it is! :)

You touch a willing creature who isn’t wearing armor, and a protective magical force surrounds it until the spell ends. The target’s base AC becomes 13 + its Dexterity modifier. The spell ends if the target dons armor or if you dismiss the spell as an action.

[Corran]

Is mage armor usable with a shield? I'm afb right now.

I dont see why it wouldn't. A shield justs adds a +2 to whatever your resulting AC is.

On another note, the bad news is, that mage armor does not work on anyone wearing armor, and if you are not wearing armor you cannot profit from the defense fighting style. So a dex EK will always be behind AC-wise compared to a str EK who picks defense, unless the dex EK picks MAM as one of their feats.

[Specter]

I dont see why it wouldn't. A shield justs adds a +2 to whatever your resulting AC is.

On another note, the bad news is, that mage armor does not work on anyone wearing armor, and if you are not wearing armor you cannot profit from the defense fighting style. So a dex EK will always be behind AC-wise compared to a str EK who picks defense, unless the dex EK picks MAM as one of their feats.

Yep. But there's always Dueling to make up for it.

[SimonJester]

Thanks for the guide! As someone that hasn't played DnD in a long time and is new to 5e, your guide has been really helpful.

On your tank sample build:

• Tank
Variant Human EK20
ST20, DX8, CO18, IN16, WI12, CH8 (racial stats on ST and CO)
Starting feat: Magic Initiate (for Shield of Faith; if starting close to level 14, take War Caster and grab Haste instead)
ASI's (4): ST+4, CO+2, IN+1 WI+1
Feats (3): Resilient (WIS), War Caster, Mage Slayer/Alert (if starting close to level 14, pick both)

I'm not sure if I'm missing something or if the point buy is wrong.

You have a lvl 20 stat line of 20/8/18/16/12/8, taking out the ASI stats you list gives you 16/8/16/15/11/8 then take out the Vuman starting bonuses to STR and CON, along with the +1 to WIS from the Resilient feat and I get a starting line of 15/8/15/15/10/8, which would be a 29 point buy.

I'm curious about the lack of Sentinel feat in the build, do you find it unnecessary for tanking EKs? I wouldn't mind not having to take it, but I often see it almost treated as required.

Also, what would you think about a Mountain Dwarf starting with 16/10/16/10/15/8, grabbing War Caster, +2 STR, Resilient WIS, at EK lvls 4/6/8 and then multiclassing into cleric? Thinking about ending up with something like 12 EK/8 Cleric.

[djreynolds]

Once again, awesome guide

I have a crazy build, I have used an EK?/barbarian 2/paladin 2

I do not use rage, but I will use reckless attack with GWM and then spam the shield spell. Even with advantage, its tough for the enemy to hit full plate AC18 and the shield spell bumps that to AC23... 23 to tough to hit... and add in shield of faith from paladin and maybe defensive style... it is a solid build

[Specter]

Thanks for the guide! As someone that hasn't played DnD in a long time and is new to 5e, your guide has been really helpful.

On your tank sample build: I'm not sure if I'm missing something or if the point buy is wrong.

You have a lvl 20 stat line of 20/8/18/16/12/8, taking out the ASI stats you list gives you 16/8/16/15/11/8 then take out the Vuman starting bonuses to STR and CON, along with the +1 to WIS from the Resilient feat and I get a starting line of 15/8/15/15/10/8, which would be a 29 point buy.

I'm curious about the lack of Sentinel feat in the build, do you find it unnecessary for tanking EKs? I wouldn't mind not having to take it, but I often see it almost treated as required.

Also, what would you think about a Mountain Dwarf starting with 16/10/16/10/15/8, grabbing War Caster, +2 STR, Resilient WIS, at EK lvls 4/6/8 and then multiclassing into cleric? Thinking about ending up with something like 12 EK/8 Cleric.

Fixed the stat array, basically WIS was 1 point higher than it should be. Changed some feats there too.
Sentinel is good, but with War Caster you can already tank effectively with Booming Blade. Let's say you are at level 17. If they try to escape your reach, they get a 1d8+5+3d8 attack to the face (23avg), and if they keep going, another 4d8 (18avg)! Or maybeyou're feeling bold and want to try a Hold Person. I say let them try.
Cleric multiclass? Sure, could work. But you need to know what you want out of clericness, because otherwise other casters (like Wizard and Sorcerer) would be better off.

Once again, awesome guide

I have a crazy build, I have used an EK?/barbarian 2/paladin 2

I do not use rage, but I will use reckless attack with GWM and then spam the shield spell. Even with advantage, its tough for the enemy to hit full plate AC18 and the shield spell bumps that to AC23... 23 to tough to hit... and add in shield of faith from paladin and maybe defensive style... it is a solid build

Barbarian basically ruins everything good EK can give you (AC and spells). There's no synergy between them. You can't even wear heavy armor raging, and that's just sad. Paladin can work, but that first level is absolute garbage and your smites would be hampered by your slow progression. Now, if this was EK/Sorcerer/Paladin 2, it would be easier for me to get behind.

[poolio]

Noticed a lack of the more "Monsterish" races personally a dex based goblin build seems pretty good to me, free bonus action disengage+booming blade, looks like a good combo to me

[Specter]

Noticed a lack of the more "Monsterish" races personally a dex based goblin build seems pretty good to me, free bonus action disengage+booming blade, looks like a good combo to me

I don't put options that are DM-dependant in guides. But yes, it could work.

[rooneg]

I don't put options that are DM-dependant in guides. But yes, it could work.

I'm not a big fan of the monstrous races from Volo's Guide either, but considering that they're legal for AL play it might be worth reconsidering including them.

[Lughaidh]

Defense vs Dueling?

I originally went Dueling with my EK but now I'm thinking the +1 AC retains its value for longer than +2 damage. Thoughts?

[MeeposFire]

Defense vs Dueling?

I originally went Dueling with my EK but now I'm thinking the +1 AC retains its value for longer than +2 damage. Thoughts?

Dueling is better the more you use the attack action and the more attacks you get. SO if you are planning on going eventually to level 11 or even 20 as a fighter then dueling is a great option for offense.

That being said AC is always good and if you are planning on using war magic more then you will make less attacks and that makes dueling less attractive so I would go with defensive then.

Of course if you prefer offense then go with dueling anyway it is still a fun choice if you really care about damage above all else.

[Cl0001]

Why is fire shield only blue? In my opinion it should be gold because it can add tons of damage done by you and is not concentration and lasts 10 minutes. So, you can cast this spell when a fight is imminent and it usually won't be wasted.

[poolio]

Defense vs Dueling?

I originally went Dueling with my EK but now I'm thinking the +1 AC retains its value for longer than +2 damage. Thoughts?

I went with defensive on mine, but i found with the shield spell in my back pocket, most things would've had to crit to hit me anyway, so as it's been pointed out, more ac is a lways good, but at some point it just gets redundant to have it so high.

My next knight will definitely be using dueling, the extra 2 might not seem like much, but it'll add up pretty fast, especially with extra attacks, and even with war magic, if you're using a SCAG cantrip and then attacking, that's still two attacks with your weapon which means another 4 damage that turn.

[Arkhios]

I went with defensive on mine, but i found with the shield spell in my back pocket, most things would've had to crit to hit me anyway, so as it's been pointed out, more ac is a lways good, but at some point it just gets redundant to have it so high.

My next knight will definitely be using dueling, the extra 2 might not seem like much, but it'll add up pretty fast, especially with extra attacks, and even with war magic, if you're using a SCAG cantrip and then attacking, that's still two attacks with your weapon which means another 4 damage that turn.

Also, if you care about averages (I don't - much), +2 to your damage with a 1d8 weapon makes your average damage equal with a 1d12 weapon. (1d8 = avg. 4.5; 1d10 = avg. 5.5; 1d12 = avg. 6.5). Using Deling fighting style is basically as if you wielded a Greataxe in one hand! (of course, the maximum value is at best equal to a 1d10 weapon).

All that is nigh negligible of course. It's still good to know, I think.

[poolio]

Also, if you care about averages (I don't - much), +2 to your damage with a 1d8 weapon makes your average damage equal with a 1d12 weapon. (1d8 = avg. 4.5; 1d10 = avg. 5.5; 1d12 = avg. 6.5). Using Deling fighting style is basically as if you wielded a Greataxe in one hand! (of course, the maximum value is at best equal to a 1d10 weapon).

All that is nigh negligible of course. It's still good to know, I think.

Very true, I've never actually done the math myself so that's good to know

[Sans.]

Why is Polearm Master not listed under noteworthy feats?

[Arkhios]

Why is Polearm Master not listed under noteworthy feats?

I believe it's because the bonus action attack competes with the other bonus action options an Eldritch Knight already have quite a bit.

Also, if you're aiming for booming blade+reach weapon shenanigans, to make it work would require two feats (spell sniper) most of the time. Two feats for a marginal benefit isn't generally "worth it" (I said marginal because Booming Blade takes an Action which could be better used to take Attack action due to Extra Attack).

[Specter]

Why is Polearm Master not listed under noteworthy feats?

I believe it's because the bonus action attack competes with the other bonus action options an Eldritch Knight already have quite a bit.

Also, if you're aiming for booming blade+reach weapon shenanigans, to make it work would require two feats (spell sniper) most of the time. Two feats for a marginal benefit isn't generally "worth it" (I said marginal because Booming Blade takes an Action which could be better used to take Attack action due to Extra Attack).

Yep, basically that. Also, the reaction attack would have competition with reaction spells.

[BerserkOne]

When I started reading this guide I didn't think there was any chance it would still be active. I'm glad I read to the end!

I'm new to all this, just stating out on my first campaign. Our party consists of a ranger, a bard, and myself: a fighter. We've just reached lvl 4, and I need to decide what to do with my first ever ASI.

My DM, and it seems a lot of people in this thread, would encourage me to max out my strength attribute as soon as possible. My question is, how important is strength really? I understand that it affects my damage and chance to hit, but that doesn't seem to be something the fighter is really cut out for. His damage is so vastly inferior to the ranger, and his battlefield control is so weak compared to the bard, that he doesn't really contribute anything offensively to the group. He seems at his most useful standing in the doorway taking the dodge action and drinking health potions every turn. He doesn't need strength for that.

It seems to me that I'd get a lot more mileage from putting the points in wisdom or charisma, and trying to be more active during social situations. Our DM awards experience points for things like that, and I'm worried about falling behind the other players because the only things I'm really good at are athletics and history.

[CantigThimble]

I don't know where you're getting the idea that the fighter is vastly inferior to ANYONE in terms of damage. Could you give us some info about your build and the ranger's?

[xanderh]

When I started reading this guide I didn't think there was any chance it would still be active. I'm glad I read to the end!

I'm new to all this, just stating out on my first campaign. Our party consists of a ranger, a bard, and myself: a fighter. We've just reached lvl 4, and I need to decide what to do with my first ever ASI.

My DM, and it seems a lot of people in this thread, would encourage me to max out my strength attribute as soon as possible. My question is, how important is strength really? I understand that it affects my damage and chance to hit, but that doesn't seem to be something the fighter is really cut out for. His damage is so vastly inferior to the ranger, and his battlefield control is so weak compared to the bard, that he doesn't really contribute anything offensively to the group. He seems at his most useful standing in the doorway taking the dodge action and drinking health potions every turn. He doesn't need strength for that.

It seems to me that I'd get a lot more mileage from putting the points in wisdom or charisma, and trying to be more active during social situations. Our DM awards experience points for things like that, and I'm worried about falling behind the other players because the only things I'm really good at are athletics and history.

Do you not use action surge? It doubles your damage (essentially) and it recharges on a short rest. The Fighter also gets more ASIs than any other class, allowing you to take more feats for more damage.
Your experiences only apply at the very early levels, and the Fighter easily does the most damage (without looking for obscure builds). If you have the short rests for it, they can even do more damage than Paladins, especially after level 11.

[BerserkOne]

I don't know where you're getting the idea that the fighter is vastly inferior to ANYONE in terms of damage. Could you give us some info about your build and the ranger's?

Thanks very much for the response!

I'm using the dueling fighting style with a longsword and a shield. My average damage per round (str+pro+style+dice) is:
3+2+2+4.5=11.5

The longbow-wielding ranger's average damage per round (dex+pro+mark+c-slayer+dice) is:
4+2+3.5+4.5+4.5=16.5

The ranger is almost certainly going to be taking the sharpshooter feat (between the Bard's inspiration dice and faerie fire, hitting is no problem), so that brings her damage per round to 26.5. If I boost my strength, I get up to 12.5.