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  1. - Top - End - #181
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by xanderh View Post
    Do you not use action surge? It doubles your damage (essentially) and it recharges on a short rest. The Fighter also gets more ASIs than any other class, allowing you to take more feats for more damage.
    Your experiences only apply at the very early levels, and the Fighter easily does the most damage (without looking for obscure builds). If you have the short rests for it, they can even do more damage than Paladins, especially after level 11.
    I typically use action surge to attack and dodge in the same round. That lets me deal at least some damage while still making me hard to hit. I'm spending most of my share of the gold on healing potions already, so I'm all about being harder to hit.

    As for all the ASI that I get, what should I be spending them on? I'm seriously considering the War Caster feat so I can cast shield while holding my shield, but that contradicts the "max strength ASAP" advice I've been getting. What to do with those ASI is exactly the sort of advice I'm looking for.

    Any advice you can give would be very much appreciated!

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by BerserkOne View Post
    Thanks very much for the response!

    I'm using the dueling fighting style with a longsword and a shield. My average damage per round (str+pro+style+dice) is:
    3+2+2+4.5=11.5

    The longbow-wielding ranger's average damage per round (dex+pro+mark+c-slayer+dice) is:
    4+2+3.5+4.5+4.5=16.5

    The ranger is almost certainly going to be taking the sharpshooter feat (between the Bard's inspiration dice and faerie fire, hitting is no problem), so that brings her damage per round to 26.5. If I boost my strength, I get up to 12.5.
    First thing, proficiency modifier doesn't apply to damage, only to hit.

    Okay, so he's playing a pure DPR build, while spending spells, getting buffs and using one of the most powerful feats and you are a pretty defensive fighter build. Eldritch knight is the tankiest fighter (before level 7) and if you want to match sharpshooter DPR you pretty much have to go great weapon master. Action surge and eventually war magic will make you more competetive, but really nothing beats sharpshooter.

    If you're sword and board I assume you aren't casting many spells in combat due to somatic components? The main strength of eldritch knight before they get war magic is the Shield spell. They can send their AC into the stratosphere with that, so you probably want warcaster so you can cast while fighting. (That's why many eldritch knights go with great weapons, you can use somatic components while wielding them) Also, are you using the Sword Coast Adventure Guide cantrips, Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade? Those are EK staples.

    Edit: Maxing strength is essential for people using great weapon master, and becomes much more noticible as you get more attacks, but that can wait until level 8. Casting shield is much more important.
    Last edited by CantigThimble; 2017-07-15 at 10:53 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by CantigThimble View Post
    First thing, proficiency modifier doesn't apply to damage, only to hit.

    Okay, so he's playing a pure DPR build, while spending spells, getting buffs and using one of the most powerful feats and you are a pretty defensive fighter build. Eldritch knight is the tankiest fighter (before level 7) and if you want to match sharpshooter DPR you pretty much have to go great weapon master. Action surge and eventually war magic will make you more competetive, but really nothing beats sharpshooter.

    If you're sword and board I assume you aren't casting many spells in combat due to somatic components? The main strength of eldritch knight before they get war magic is the Shield spell. They can send their AC into the stratosphere with that, so you probably want warcaster so you can cast while fighting. (That's why many eldritch knights go with great weapons, you can use somatic components while wielding them) Also, are you using the Sword Coast Adventure Guide cantrips, Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade? Those are EK staples.

    Edit: Maxing strength is essential for people using great weapon master, and becomes much more noticible as you get more attacks, but that can wait until level 8. Casting shield is much more important.
    Well, I screwed up the damage numbers on my character sheet then. Good thing the DM didn't catch that!

    Talking about my spells, I have:
    Booming Blade
    Message
    Shield
    Absorb Elements
    Burning Hands
    Expeditious Retreat

    The only (non-cantrip) spell I've ever used is burning hands. I usually use that at the start of combat, before I draw my sword, to get all the enemies focused on me while the ranger and bard hide and move away to range.

    As far as being a tank character, that's what I was building towards, but the fighter doesn't really seem to be that good at it. The ranger and I have the exact same HP max, and the only difference in our armor classes is that I'm holding a shield and she isn't. If she took my shield and borrowed the rapier the bard hasn't used since our first session, she'd be every bit the tank I am, in addition to dealing more damage and being able to heal herself. War Caster and the shield spell would obviously change that temporarily, but I run out of spell slots FAST, so in the long run she'd probably still be a better tank. Of course, she deals even more damage when she isn't tanking, so it makes sense for me to do it.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    You have second wind, assuming you're getting roughly 2 short rests per day you have more self healing than she does, and that's without using spell slots that she has to use on hunters mark.

    She has an 18 in dex while you only have a 16 str. You also haven't gotten a chance to buy splint or full plate yet.

    Basically, there are a lot of small reasons why you aren't doing as well as you feel you should be but most of it boils down to this: She's playing a sharpshooter ranger (which is one of the highest DPR builds at the level you're at) but the only reason she gets to do that damage is because she has backup. If you weren't injuring enemies for her she wouldn't get colossus slayer and if she ever got in melee she'd lose her fighting style.

    Also, alot of this will change at later levels. At level 5 your action surge is twice as good and with two attacks I can guarantee you'll notice the benefit of higher strength. And remember, very often the best way to prevent damage is to kill the enemy before they can deal it.

    Also, I think you might just enjoy a battlemaster more. If you like making a difference in combat battlemasters have lots of very direct and powerful ways to do that. Eldritch knights are not necessarily weaker but they're less direct and take longer to become really impressive. (Blur+20AC and free cantrips every turn is terrifying at level 8)
    Last edited by CantigThimble; 2017-07-16 at 02:02 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    My point about her being a better tank is that, even with no benefit from fighting style or sharpshooter, hunter's mark + collosus slayer still gives her more damage than I can do, even if I boost strength with my ASI so that we have the same value. And she'd still have better initiative and a better save against AoE spells.

    We don't really do short rests. I use about two healing potions per fight, so I need to go to town pretty frequently. That tends to be the limiting factor on how much combat we do between long rests. Since hunter's mark is the only spell she typically uses, I almost always run out of potions before she runs out of spell slots.

    I'd love to have some better armor, but it's so expensive! Even if we just wandered into some we'd probably sell it. We agreed at the start that we'd split our loot as evenly as possible, using equivalent gold values for items. Claiming a 200 gp item would likely mean forfeiting about three fights worth of gold. No gold = no healing potions. No healing potions = dead fighter.

    I went with Eldritch Knight because I wanted a character with both strength and intelligence in order to better round out the party. I guess I could do that with battlemaster, but it seems like that's why EK exists.

    I am well aware of Blur. I plan to dump Retreat for it as soon as I hit level 7. That seems like an eternity and a half away though.

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    If you are designated as the tank who is supposed to be sucking up the attacks then the other players need to be pitching in to help purchase you better armor and healing potions. It is unfair to expect YOU to foot the whole bill for those things just to do the things that make THEM more effective.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoloc View Post
    If you are designated as the tank who is supposed to be sucking up the attacks then the other players need to be pitching in to help purchase you better armor and healing potions. It is unfair to expect YOU to foot the whole bill for those things just to do the things that make THEM more effective.
    I suppose I'm not really *designated* as the tank. It's just how I envisioned the character. As I said before, the ranger is at least as effective a tank as I am when she gets caught in melee, so she's hardly dependent on me to do it. The bard just casts invisibility on himself if anything tries to approach.

    A lot of it too, is that the ranger and bard are both very range-oriented characters. They either start really far from the enemies or spend their first turns moving away. I'm as much a tank because I'm the only viable target as anything else.

    Is there some other way I could play this character? Specifically, if the ranger and I traded off tanking duties, is there something I could do to while she was tanking that would justify the switch? Maybe different spells I could take?

    Edit: Now I think about it, the bard could take a turn too. He's got about 300 gp now, and he doesn't burn through money like I do so he can afford to go for a few encounters without loot. He was talking about borrowing money from the ranger and buying a breastplate at the next town, which would give him the same armor class as the rest of us. He wouldn't have as much HP, but he could probably make up the difference with his spells.
    Last edited by BerserkOne; 2017-07-16 at 01:10 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by BerserkOne View Post
    I'm using the dueling fighting style with a longsword and a shield. My average damage per round (str+pro+style+dice) is:
    3+2+2+4.5=11.5

    The longbow-wielding ranger's average damage per round (dex+pro+mark+c-slayer+dice) is:
    4+2+3.5+4.5+4.5=16.5
    That will become half true once you reach level 5 and get extra attack.


    Quote Originally Posted by BerserkOne View Post
    The ranger is almost certainly going to be taking the sharpshooter feat (between the Bard's inspiration dice and faerie fire, hitting is no problem), so that brings her damage per round to 26.5. If I boost my strength, I get up to 12.5.
    That's comparing apple and bananas. That -5 to hit is painful...
    Against typical creatures of AC14, at level 5:
    - you = 1d8+2+3 * .65 * 2 ~ 12.35
    - you = 1d8+2+4+3 * .70.65 * 2 ~ 14.7 (with Str18)
    - you = 1d8+2+3 * .88.65 * 2 ~ 16.67 (shield bashed target)
    - SS = 1d8+3+10 * .4 * 2 + 1d8 * .16 ~ 14.72
    The difference is mostly gone.

    And you certainly tank better, if only for the +2 AC from shield, and the heavy armor, and the extra hp from 1d10 HD, and better Con... you've put more point in your Con, right?


    There's a strong contender to the Str18 ASI, it's shield master. Start your turn with your bonus action to shove your target down, if you succeed you get advantage on your attack rolls.
    Last edited by bid; 2017-07-16 at 02:01 PM.
    Trust but verify. There's usually a reason why I believe you can't do something.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by bid View Post
    That will become half true once you reach level 5 and get extra attack.
    The ranger gets a second attack too, right?

    That's comparing apple and bananas. That -5 to hit is painful...
    Against typical creatures of AC14, at level 5:
    - you = 1d8+2+3 * .65 * 2 ~ 12.35
    - you = 1d8+2+4+3 * .70.65 * 2 ~ 14.7 (with Str18)
    - you = 1d8+2+3 * .88.65 * 2 ~ 16.67 (shield bashed target)
    - SS = 1d8+3+10 * .4 * 2 + 1d8 * .16 ~ 14.72
    The difference is mostly gone.
    "SS" is the sharpshooter ranger, right? Assuming so, why is the ranger's chance to apply collosus slayer only .16? She only needs to land one attack to apply it, and her chance to land is .4 even without an inspiration dice or advantage from faerie fire. Unless I'm interpreting that wrong. Your maths confuse me. Also, did you add hunter's mark in there?

    And you certainly tank better, if only for the +2 AC from shield, and the heavy armor, and the extra hp from 1d10 HD, and better Con... you've put more point in your Con, right?


    There's a strong contender to the Str18 ASI, it's shield master. Start your turn with your bonus action to shove your target down, if you succeed you get advantage on your attack rolls.
    Technically, it's +3 AC from the shield. The DM gave everyone a magic item at the start of the campaign and the one he picked for me was a shield +1. Is heavy armor all that good, though? The ranger has the same AC, not counting the shield, as I have because she has high dexterity, and she has it without sacrificing her stealth skill. I guess in theory it would be better if I could afford better armor, but it's all really expensive and I have no money. The ranger and I have the same constitution: 14. It's tied with intelligence as my second highest stat. Would I have been better off with 14 str and 16 con at start, instead of the other way around? I could certainly see that being the case.

    I looked at shield master, but it seemed redundant with the bard's faerie fire. Should I take it anyway? Should I put more points in con?

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    My advice: take short rests and attack and cast spells instead of dodging. You said STR is your highest stat and took dueling, those do you no good if you're always dodging. You won't need potions if you use healing surges, roll hit dice during short rests, and if the enemies are dead faster. If you have time to travel back to town and back, you have time to take short rests. Also, you don't need to keep your HP at max, just above zero. And even if you do drop, you have a ranger and a bard. They have healing spells, and both have at least decent medicine skills.
    Last edited by Puh Laden; 2017-07-16 at 03:22 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    16str 14 con is the better allocation. You don't really want to start with less than 16 in your "main" stat most of the time.

    Rangers are good physical combatants, as are fighters. You shouldn't really except to be strictly better, you just have different advantages.
    Your Ranger friend started with an 18 in her attack stat. That does make a decent difference (also, she started with an 18 but you didn't get more than a 16? A reason some people don't like rolling stats is that it can lead some characters to just simply be better). She's also using a two-handed weapon, a spell slot (hunster's mark), and a class feature (colossus slayer) to do that extra damage. That would work no where near as well without you to take the hits, she'd lose concentration on hunters mark, be at disadvantage with the longbow from being close to enemies ect.

    You've got advantages too:
    Second Wind can heal for quite a lot over the day. Action surge for an extra attack is great too (soon two extra attacks!).
    You've got a lot of extra AC from the shield. That's a big boon that you exchanged some damage potential for. Plate will eventually give you at least one more AC than she can have. Splint is fairly cheap though, I'd try to get that soon. EK can be exceptionally tanky with the Shield spell and also your absorb elements.

    I think you can take a feat at level 4 if you want. Then at level 6 I'd take the strength bump. Warcaster would be a pretty good choice. Make more use of shield and absorb elements that way. +5 ac is big, you'll be pretty dang hard to hit.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by BerserkOne View Post
    "SS" is the sharpshooter ranger, right? Assuming so, why is the ranger's chance to apply collosus slayer only .16? She only needs to land one attack to apply it, and her chance to land is .4 even without an inspiration dice or advantage from faerie fire. Unless I'm interpreting that wrong. Your maths confuse me. Also, did you add hunter's mark in there?
    Well, colossus slayer would only work on the second hit and you are guaranteed 26 damage, close enough to a kill. I forgot HM though.

    Still, don't sell short EK because a ranger managed to start with Dex18 or Con18. Use what you have and enjoy the role part of it.
    Trust but verify. There's usually a reason why I believe you can't do something.

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by BerserkOne View Post
    I looked at shield master, but it seemed redundant with the bard's faerie fire. Should I take it anyway? Should I put more points in con?
    An at-will bonus action vs 3 times a day full action?

    Str16 is better, and if you both have Con14 you still have 4 more hp. Let the SS ranger tank once, and you'll get the gold for better armor. It's hard to shoot arrow from melee range.
    Trust but verify. There's usually a reason why I believe you can't do something.

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Puh Laden View Post
    My advice: take short rests and attack and cast spells instead of dodging. You said STR is your highest stat and took dueling, those do you no good if you're always dodging. You won't need potions if you use healing surges, roll hit dice during short rests, and if the enemies are dead faster. If you have time to travel back to town and back, you have time to take short rests. Also, you don't need to keep your HP at max, just above zero. And even if you do drop, you have a ranger and a bard. They have healing spells, and both have at least decent medicine skills.
    Honestly, I've been wondering if dueling was a mistake. I feel I may have tried to do too many things, and I should have taken defense instead.

    People keep mentioning the short rest thing, but I don't think it really helps. I should have probably explained this better before. We've always had at minimum a long rest between combat encounters. The only variable is how many fights it takes to get to the next town where we can resupply.

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by bid View Post
    An at-will bonus action vs 3 times a day full action?

    Str16 is better, and if you both have Con14 you still have 4 more hp. Let the SS ranger tank once, and you'll get the gold for better armor. It's hard to shoot arrow from melee range.
    Our DM apparently gives us more long rests than usual, although I don't know how anyone survives if that's the case.

    Why would I have more HP than the ranger if we both have the same con? The book says we both have the same d10 hit dice. Did I overlook a fighter feature somewhere?

    The ranger does have a shortsword as well. It's not like her bow is her only weapon.

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by bid View Post
    Well, colossus slayer would only work on the second hit and you are guaranteed 26 damage, close enough to a kill. I forgot HM though.

    Still, don't sell short EK because a ranger managed to start with Dex18 or Con18. Use what you have and enjoy the role part of it.
    26 damage is enough to kill an underling, but it's a far cry from killing a leader type. She one-shots trash mobs all the time without collosus slayer. She seldomly attacks a significant target without it.

    You are right though. I was hoping for tips on how to play my class better, and instead we've gotten sidetracked talking about the comparative merits of fighters and rangers. I didn't mean to divert the thread like that.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by rbstr View Post
    You've got advantages too:
    Second Wind can heal for quite a lot over the day. Action surge for an extra attack is great too (soon two extra attacks!).
    You've got a lot of extra AC from the shield. That's a big boon that you exchanged some damage potential for. Plate will eventually give you at least one more AC than she can have. Splint is fairly cheap though, I'd try to get that soon. EK can be exceptionally tanky with the Shield spell and also your absorb elements.

    I think you can take a feat at level 4 if you want. Then at level 6 I'd take the strength bump. Warcaster would be a pretty good choice. Make more use of shield and absorb elements that way. +5 ac is big, you'll be pretty dang hard to hit.
    Our DM gives us more than the usual amount of long rests, so second wind effectively ends up being like a spell slot for me.

    Even splint armor is like 200 gp. I'll never get there unless I figure out how to get better at not taking damage. I do like the War Caster feat for that. Thanks very much for the advice!

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by BerserkOne View Post
    People keep mentioning the short rest thing, but I don't think it really helps. I should have probably explained this better before. We've always had at minimum a long rest between combat encounters. The only variable is how many fights it takes to get to the next town where we can resupply.
    So you have one fight and then a long rest then a fight pretty much every time?

    That's going to heavily skew a game to long-rest resource classes - like most casters. They get to burn a days worth of spells for an encounter and don't have to worry about rationing things!
    Whereas the fighter works more on sort rests. They handle more intensive days better.
    (Though, the EK is better than a battlemaster in that situation)

    Anyway, I'd keep focusing on your strength in your high AC, save up for splint. Buy fewer potions and make that ranger and bard heal you ;P . Mostly cast shield for now, in particular when multiple things are going to come after you in a round. Make use of action surge to pump out a burst of damage in a high leverage situation, don't burn it on dodge. In in particular, since you know you only have to fight one combat and then get a long rest and get all your HP back you basically have all your hp to use every fight, so let it get low!
    Dueling was a good choice and it'll work even better as you level. That +2 happens every hit always, that's valuable.
    Last edited by rbstr; 2017-07-16 at 05:11 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #199
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    In the OP it says re Half Orc "For STR builds who want to go full retard on the battlefield".

    I know we're probably all tired of p.c. police and such, but I wish you'd give me a chance here regarding the word "ret*rd". I bet you're expecting me to say it's "offensive" and demand that you take it out and not use it any more. No. I will say that it causes good people to feel pain or other negative emotions, and I will politely ask you to consider taking it out and not using it, please. And in that way I hope I'm appealing to the "good person" in you and not coming down on you like some angry, self-righteous Puritan (because who needs that, right?).

    I've worked w/ special ed kids and families, and they struggle - and they feel a great deal of shame - and they get labeled and teased and abused and worse. Every time they and people who love them see the word "ret*rd" used in a "weaponized" way (even if it's only for a joke, it's a joke at someone else's expense - a joke that hurts others - and it is arguably "weaponized" or something like that because of this), a little part of them dies inside because they are seeing yet another instance where they must hide - pray they aren't singled out for abuse or ridicule - because they see another instance of hurt or intolerance aimed at them. Sure, truly low IQ people won't be reading this, but people who know and love them will. And a lot of special ed people aren't low IQ (they have ADD, ADHD, dyslexia, autism and so on) but struggle in school and get called "ret*rded" and can read this. So, I plead to you from all that's good in this world, please try not to use this term any more. You can make a huge, caring and very kind and positive difference in someone's life by using some other humorous way to refer to the Half Orc. Thanks for reading, and again I hope I'm not coming off like some demanding jerk here - I just want to make my case and hope people will give it fair consideration. It truly can be hard to be "different", so let's please help those who are.

    (edit - I do appreciate the guide on EK - it helps, thanks!)
    Last edited by Chugger; 2017-07-16 at 05:12 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #200
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    In the guide it says "Blur/Mirror Image – If you want even more dodginess, that’s the way to go. Mirror Image requires no concentration, but with Blur you can kill a 20th-level rogue all by yourself. Up to you."

    I looked up blur in the phb, where it says that if the attacker "relies" on blindsight, blur doesn't work on it. A lvl 20 rogue has 10' range blindsight but may not "rely" on it because one would presume the rogue can still see. Still, I can see a DM ruling that the phb doesn't mean that the attacker has to have blindsight and pretty much nothing else to be immune to blur. If the rogue attacking a blurred target is w/in 10' ranger (of his or her blindsight), I can see the DM saying blur has no effect. I can see an EK arguing that the rogue would still be mostly relying on sight, and I can see the DM saying no, the rogue sees you blur and then - in range - switches over mentally to rely on blindsight to try to stab the EK. How do you think a DM would typically rule?

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by rbstr View Post
    So you have one fight and then a long rest then a fight pretty much every time?

    That's going to heavily skew a game to long-rest resource classes - like most casters. They get to burn a days worth of spells for an encounter and don't have to worry about rationing things!
    Whereas the fighter works more on sort rests. They handle more intensive days better.
    (Though, the EK is better than a battlemaster in that situation)

    Anyway, I'd keep focusing on your strength in your high AC, save up for splint. Buy fewer potions and make that ranger and bard heal you ;P . Mostly cast shield for now, in particular when multiple things are going to come after you in a round. Make use of action surge to pump out a burst of damage in a high leverage situation, don't burn it on dodge. In in particular, since you know you only have to fight one combat and then get a long rest and get all your HP back you basically have all your hp to use every fight, so let it get low!
    Dueling was a good choice and it'll work even better as you level. That +2 happens every hit always, that's valuable.
    The bard has on occasion tossed a healing word my way, but the ranger does her best to take every fight from 125 ft away. I don't think there's much healing I can expect from there.

    Trust me, I know all about low HP. After the first round of combat last fight I had 3 hp left. Not the only time in that fight I got that low either. I've been knocked unconscious from max hp in a single turn before too (I was lvl 2 when that happened).

    With things being as they are, does that change any spell recommendations? Are there other ways I can orient my character for those intense single fights? Also, is there a build I could use to more effectively kite enemies, rather than straight tanking? That seems to be what keeps the other two out of trouble so effectively.

  22. - Top - End - #202
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by BerserkOne View Post
    The bard has on occasion tossed a healing word my way, but the ranger does her best to take every fight from 125 ft away. I don't think there's much healing I can expect from there.

    Trust me, I know all about low HP. After the first round of combat last fight I had 3 hp left. Not the only time in that fight I got that low either. I've been knocked unconscious from max hp in a single turn before too (I was lvl 2 when that happened).

    With things being as they are, does that change any spell recommendations? Are there other ways I can orient my character for those intense single fights? Also, is there a build I could use to more effectively kite enemies, rather than straight tanking? That seems to be what keeps the other two out of trouble so effectively.
    Honestly, it just sounds like your GM hasn't read through the DMG properly. You're underwhelmed by the Fighter because your GM is only throwing a single super-hard encounter at you, and then you rest for 8 hours.
    The way it's supposed to be done is 6-8 encounters of easy to hard difficulty (mostly medium), with two short rests. Last session I GM'ed, the players ended the dungeon with 3 hit Points split among them (4 players), no spell slots, and no hit dice. None of my encounters were above hard.
    What your GM is probably doing is giving you a single encounter that is 2-3 times the "deadly" threshold, which means that you have to buy potions.

    Tell your GM that you feel that the current encounter balance is limiting your character and your fun, and that the encounter guidelines suggest 6-8 medium encounters per adventuring day. D&D 5e is an attrition game, and no single battle should decide whether the characters live or die.

    That's not to say that can't happen, I've had a tpk happen to a party from a medium encounter right after a long rest. But usually, the players should feel very confident at first, and then get nervous as they start to go further into the dungeon.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by BerserkOne View Post
    Why would I have more HP than the ranger if we both have the same con? The book says we both have the same d10 hit dice.
    Rangers have d10, the confusion is mine.
    Trust but verify. There's usually a reason why I believe you can't do something.

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Chugger View Post
    In the guide it says "Blur/Mirror Image – If you want even more dodginess, that’s the way to go. Mirror Image requires no concentration, but with Blur you can kill a 20th-level rogue all by yourself. Up to you."

    I looked up blur in the phb, where it says that if the attacker "relies" on blindsight, blur doesn't work on it. A lvl 20 rogue has 10' range blindsight but may not "rely" on it because one would presume the rogue can still see. Still, I can see a DM ruling that the phb doesn't mean that the attacker has to have blindsight and pretty much nothing else to be immune to blur. If the rogue attacking a blurred target is w/in 10' ranger (of his or her blindsight), I can see the DM saying blur has no effect. I can see an EK arguing that the rogue would still be mostly relying on sight, and I can see the DM saying no, the rogue sees you blur and then - in range - switches over mentally to rely on blindsight to try to stab the EK. How do you think a DM would typically rule?
    I think most DMs would rule that the rogue does suffer disadvantage from Blur, because the spell specifies it's overcome by relying on senses *other* than sight, not merely having blindsense. So the rogue would be fooled by their eyes despite having short-range blindsight.

    That is how I would rule, and I believe it follows RAW, though of course I haven't talked to any other DMs about this.
    Hello.

  25. - Top - End - #205
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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Chugger View Post
    In the guide it says "Blur/Mirror Image – If you want even more dodginess, that’s the way to go. Mirror Image requires no concentration, but with Blur you can kill a 20th-level rogue all by yourself. Up to you."

    I looked up blur in the phb, where it says that if the attacker "relies" on blindsight, blur doesn't work on it. A lvl 20 rogue has 10' range blindsight but may not "rely" on it because one would presume the rogue can still see. Still, I can see a DM ruling that the phb doesn't mean that the attacker has to have blindsight and pretty much nothing else to be immune to blur. If the rogue attacking a blurred target is w/in 10' ranger (of his or her blindsight), I can see the DM saying blur has no effect. I can see an EK arguing that the rogue would still be mostly relying on sight, and I can see the DM saying no, the rogue sees you blur and then - in range - switches over mentally to rely on blindsight to try to stab the EK. How do you think a DM would typically rule?
    Quote Originally Posted by kebusmaximus View Post
    I think most DMs would rule that the rogue does suffer disadvantage from Blur, because the spell specifies it's overcome by relying on senses *other* than sight, not merely having blindsense. So the rogue would be fooled by their eyes despite having short-range blindsight.

    That is how I would rule, and I believe it follows RAW, though of course I haven't talked to any other DMs about this.
    Rogues don't get blindsight, they get the class feature Blindsense, which is way crappier:

    Blindsense
    Starting at 14th level, if you are able to hear, you are aware of the location of any hidden or invisible creature within 10 feet of you.


    ... and unfortunately for the rogue, doesn't help against Blur.

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by xanderh View Post
    Honestly, it just sounds like your GM hasn't read through the DMG properly. You're underwhelmed by the Fighter because your GM is only throwing a single super-hard encounter at you, and then you rest for 8 hours.
    The way it's supposed to be done is 6-8 encounters of easy to hard difficulty (mostly medium), with two short rests. Last session I GM'ed, the players ended the dungeon with 3 hit Points split among them (4 players), no spell slots, and no hit dice. None of my encounters were above hard.
    What your GM is probably doing is giving you a single encounter that is 2-3 times the "deadly" threshold, which means that you have to buy potions.

    Tell your GM that you feel that the current encounter balance is limiting your character and your fun, and that the encounter guidelines suggest 6-8 medium encounters per adventuring day. D&D 5e is an attrition game, and no single battle should decide whether the characters live or die.

    That's not to say that can't happen, I've had a tpk happen to a party from a medium encounter right after a long rest. But usually, the players should feel very confident at first, and then get nervous as they start to go further into the dungeon.
    The trouble is that everyone else really likes the campaign the way it is. I don't want to be the malcontent at the table demanding that everything be changed to accommodate me. I'd much rather just adapt my character build to match the situation.

    As far as fighter vs ranger, the more I've thought about it, the more I've come to realize that my dissatisfaction isn't necessarily with the classes. It's strength vs dexterity. Even if we were both fighters, the dex fighter would be just as good a tank without expensive armor, with the same weapon dice, and with bonuses to initiative and the very common dexterity saves. Apart from two-handed weapons, I'm not sure what you really get from strength, except eventually having 1 additional point of armor class for the bargain price of 1500 gp.

    While it might be the case that most campaigns focus on dungeoning rather than dragon slaying, at some point you probably will be slaying a dragon or the like. The fighter has to do something during that fight, so it seems reasonable that there is some fighter build that can function respectably as a dragon slayer. I'd like to hear any thoughts about how to build toward that goal.

    For example, what do you think of the Mobile feat? It's listed as black on the guide, but it seems like it might have good potential for the niche I'm in. Mobile gives additional base movement speed and prevents enemies you make weapon attacks against from taking opportunity attacks against you. It seems like you could combine that with Booming Blade and the spell Expeditious Retreat (later on, Haste) to become an incredibly slippery skirmisher sort of character. Do you think that has merit, or would too many enemies be able to counter a strategy like that?

  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by BerserkOne View Post
    The trouble is that everyone else really likes the campaign the way it is. I don't want to be the malcontent at the table demanding that everything be changed to accommodate me. I'd much rather just adapt my character build to match the situation.
    Well the problem is that the 5e classes are balanced around the assumption that you'll get 2 short rests per long rest. If you're not getting short rests, you could suggest to the DM that you change the short rest resources into long rest resources, but triple their uses per long rest. It should alleviate the problem to some extent.

    Still, maybe the DM should consider changing up the campaign. The 5 minute adventuring day has always seemed weird to me, because I can't imagine a character that would go in, fight one battle, and then rest for 24 hours.

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by xanderh View Post
    Still, maybe the DM should consider changing up the campaign. The 5 minute adventuring day has always seemed weird to me, because I can't imagine a character that would go in, fight one battle, and then rest for 24 hours.
    To be fair, it's not like we just wake up, kill some stuff, and go back to sleep. The story we're playing has us on a pilgrimage. It makes sense we can travel for more than a day without getting into a fight. And we do other things along the way as well. It may just be a matter of us all being new to the game, and the DM not wishing to throw too many mechanics at us all at once, but still wanting to keep things interesting. He mentioned wanting to wrap our current arc up around the time we reach level 5, and we may get into more traditional dungeon crawling after that.

    A question for math-oriented people: if I don't take the War Caster feat, is it better to use my shield +1, or to have a free hand and cast the shield spell? Is there someplace I can go to learn how to calculate those statistics?

  29. - Top - End - #209
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by BerserkOne View Post
    A question for math-oriented people: if I don't take the War Caster feat, is it better to use my shield +1, or to have a free hand and cast the shield spell? Is there someplace I can go to learn how to calculate those statistics?
    It is better to use a maul and cast shield than to use a long sword and don a +1 shield.

    Shield spell stops a hit (well +5 AC)... someone rolled 11+ and you're hit, if they rolled 16+ shield didn't help. It stops 1 hit every 2 cast, plus some fraction if attacks keep coming once shield is up.
    Shield+1 is +3 AC, stopping 3 hits every 20 rolls.

    So, casting shield 3 times will stop 1.5 hits or a little more... Shield+1 would need survive 10 attacks to match that. Remember that you have around 45 hp at level 5.

    So, if you don't have anything better to do with your 1st slots, you come ahead with the spell.
    Trust but verify. There's usually a reason why I believe you can't do something.

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Bellator Arcana: The Eldritch Knight's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Zene View Post
    Rogues don't get blindsight, they get the class feature Blindsense, which is way crappier:

    Blindsense
    Starting at 14th level, if you are able to hear, you are aware of the location of any hidden or invisible creature within 10 feet of you.


    ... and unfortunately for the rogue, doesn't help against Blur.
    Ah, blindSENSE. I guess that wouldn't help the rogue.

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