The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index

[Jaxzan Proditor]

In fact, I'll go so far as to propose the removal of the whole "Hel has no living worshipers" quote, on the grounds that it has now been made redundant by the comic itself. The Giant wrote this in answer to the question, "Why didn't Hel try bequeathing her powers on someone not undead?": That question is now answered in #1083. No one would ask this question today, and if they did, the answer would lie in the comic, not the Index.

Ignoring my other issues with it, the quote does have some things not mentioned in the comic, like that Hel can make undead her cleric due to the direct connection with their negative energy (but can’t just give them XP).

[Keltest]

Ignoring my other issues with it, the quote does have some things not mentioned in the comic, like that Hel can make undead her cleric due to the direct connection with their negative energy (but can’t just give them XP).

That's in the comic too, isn't it? I believe its Greg who mentions that every time Hel finds an undead intelligent enough to grant clerical powers to the normal way (starting at level 1), they end up as a boss in some low level dungeon and get killed.

[Peelee]

And no deity can just give their clerics XP, which is the entire crux of the goblin issue.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

That's in the comic too, isn't it? I believe its Greg who mentions that every time Hel finds an undead intelligent enough to grant clerical powers to the normal way (starting at level 1), they end up as a boss in some low level dungeon and get killed.

That might be, but I don’t think there’s any mention of the link through negative energy.

And no deity can just give their clerics XP, which is the entire crux of the goblin issue.

Ah, yeah, that’s a fair point.

[Jasdoif]

In case anyone missed it from the last page, there's a vote going on:

Item up for voting:

• The removal of "We'll find out why someday" why Hel has no living worshippers; on the basis of having found out why. (The entry about Hel having no living worshippers will remain in the Index)

---

• Please bold your keep/remove votes, it'll make it easier for me to notice when I go through and count everything.
• If you feel inclined to vote with "yes" or "no", please describe your position so I can tell the difference between "yes, keep it" or "yes, remove it".
• Per Rule H1, removal by vote requires a quote to have two more votes in favor of removal than votes against removal.

Voting will be open until August 25nd, 8PM EDT.

...apparently we're also discussing if/how comic link(s) should be added to replace the quote being removed. (We'll circle around to other quotes after this vote is done....)

[Joerg]

I vote that the link text is replaced, not removed.

[hamishspence]

I vote replace, rather than remove.

[Peelee]

I would like Jasdoif to chime in and confirm/deny, but I would wager the only votes that will count for anything currently are Remove or Keep. Replace votes will likely not be counted at all, and will be treated as Abstain. After the vote is when the discussion of replacing will take place.

That's just how I'm reading it. Summon Banana I!

[hamishspence]

I would wager the only votes that will count for anything currently are Remove or Keep. Replace votes will likely not be counted at all, and will be treated as Abstain.

Maybe Replace should be treated as "Remove But Replace with Something" - Remove should be treated as "Remove And Replace With Nothing"

so both count toward "Remove" votes - so if all those significantly outnumber "Keep" (that is, by 2 or more) - then it passes.

And if there are significantly more (two or more) "Remove and Replace With Something" votes than "Remove and Replace With Nothing" votes - then the new link is included - otherwise, not.

[Peelee]

Maybe Replace should be treated as "Remove But Replace with Something" - Remove should be treated as "Remove And Replace With Nothing"

so both count toward "Remove" votes - so if all those significantly outnumber "Keep" - then it passes

and if there are significant more "Remove and Replace With Something" than "Remove and Replace With Nothing" - then the new link is included - otherwise, not.

Which I have no issue against, I just figured that assuming Replace being treated as Abstain would be more fair than Remove & Stuff, since I'm already in the remove camp.

[martianmister]

My vote is still remove, and not replace.

[Kish]

Replace. Pending information from Jasdoif about whether that's an option.

[Jasdoif]

I would like Jasdoif to chime in and confirm/deny, but I would wager the only votes that will count for anything currently are Remove or Keep. Replace votes will likely not be counted at all, and will be treated as Abstain. After the vote is when the discussion of replacing will take place.

"Replace" clearly requires removing what's already there to add something else in its place; so "replace" will count as "remove" for the vote.

Comic links are not quotes, so adding comic links to a description falls firmly under "as I see fit", exactly like rewording an entry's description does. I'll track the (informal) conversation on it to decide how, exactly, I'll update the entry's description.

[Peelee]

"Replace" clearly requires removing what's already there to add something else in its place; so "replace" will count as "remove" for the vote.

Comic links are not quotes, so adding comic links to a description falls firmly under "as I see fit", exactly like rewording an entry's description does. I'll track the (informal) conversation on it to decide how, exactly, I'll update the entry's description.

Spoiler: As I erase the summoning circle

Show

[nabcif]

"Replace" clearly requires removing what's already there to add something else in its place; so "replace" will count as "remove" for the vote.

Comic links are not quotes, so adding comic links to a description falls firmly under "as I see fit", exactly like rewording an entry's description does. I'll track the (informal) conversation on it to decide how, exactly, I'll update the entry's description.

Replace is what my vote is.

[b_jonas]

Item up for voting: The removal of "We'll find out why someday" why Hel has no living worshippers; on the basis of having found out why. (The entry about Hel having no living worshippers will remain in the Index)

I vote remove.

Incidentally, can you clarify whether I can cast a valid vote in a forum private message to you rather than by posting in the thread for votes like this?

[Jasdoif]

Incidentally, can you clarify whether I can cast a valid vote in a forum private message to you rather than by posting in the thread for votes like this?

A vote must be posted in the thread to count.

[martianmister]

I vote remove.

Incidentally, can you clarify whether I can cast a valid vote in a forum private message to you rather than by posting in the thread for votes like this?

Is there a reason for secret ballot?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Is there a reason for secret ballot?

I've always felt it cluttered up a thread - so many posts not contributing to the primary purpose of the thread, just its meta maintenance. Thus why I ask for PM votes in the MitD thread. Admittedly, it is not a secret vote - I still collate and publish the results.

Grey Wolf

[super dark33]

Remove. Its not like the comic is vague about the whole thing so a comment isnt neccesery.

Its like when a lecturer is stopped by a student asking a question on a subject that the lecturer was JUST getting to, its annoying.

[Keltest]

I also vote Remove.

[nabcif]

Remove. Though I keep waffling.

[Jasdoif]

• The removal of We'll find out why someday passed; 16 in favor of removal, 0 in favor of keeping. It has been removed.

The Index has been updated.

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As I couldn't identify a clear direction on whether consensus was for or against replacing that quote with comic links; I chose to go the route that was the least trouble for me: Simply removing that section of the entry's description. The entry now reads:

Hel Has No Living Worshippers "That means literally not one single living person, ever."

#962

2014/09/11

[hamishspence]

Something that might be worth including in the Other Characters section - since I got into a big debate a few months ago over whether Sarah Greenhilt was actually 19 years old when she met Eugene, as is implied here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0494.html

Sarah was pretty monogamous in life, however; she met her husband at age 19.

Maybe include it as:

Sarah Greenhilt was 19 when she met Eugene Greenhilt

[Emanick]

Something that might be worth including in the Other Characters section - since I got into a big debate a few months ago over whether Sarah Greenhilt was actually 19 years old when she met Eugene, as is implied here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0494.html




Maybe include it as:

Sarah Greenhilt was 19 when she met Eugene Greenhilt

Nice little bit of backstory. I’d be up for including it.

[Ron Miel]

It's in the index already.

Racism and Sex in OOTS
Rich answers two separate concerns: One, whether there is some correlation between skin color and promiscuity, and two, whether there is too much promiscuity among the women portrayed in the comic. The short answer to both is no.

[hamishspence]

It's in the index already.

Yes - but not tagged to Sara specifically. Next time the topic comes up, it would be handy to be able to point to a link in the Index which says "Sara was 19 when she met Eugene" in its title.

[Jaros]

On the first page of the latest discussion thread, Lord Torath said: "Rich said that new souls provide more power than old souls."

Anyone know where this is from? Is it already up there? Seems a good quote to put in regarding Hel's plan and the new strips revelation.

[unbeliever536]

On the first page of the latest discussion thread, Lord Torath said: "Rich said that new souls provide more power than old souls."

Anyone know where this is from? Is it already up there? Seems a good quote to put in regarding Hel's plan and the new strips revelation.

Well, a quote from Lord Torath is not a quote from the Giant. Luckily, we happen to have the relevant quotes from the first (I think? Could have been the second) time this came up.

[Lord Torath]

On the first page of the latest discussion thread, Lord Torath said: "Rich said that new souls provide more power than old souls."

Anyone know where this is from? Is it already up there? Seems a good quote to put in regarding Hel's plan and the new strips revelation.

I was pretty sure there was a thread where someone asserted that all the dwarves who have ever lived must be more than those currently living, so even if Hel got all the currently-living dwarven souls when the world ended, the other gods should still have more power than her, so her plan should fail. So Rich said something along the lines that they should assume that Hel knows what she's doing, so the currently-living 10 million (or whatever number it was) dwarven souls would give her more power than the 100 million (or whatever number) of already-dead dwarven souls give the rest of the pantheon. Really something along the lines of "Assume mechanics that support the story."

I could very easily be mis-remembering, though, and attributing others' words to The Giant.