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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Troacctid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    I mean, Shifting feats are generally meant to be taken as a group. And Swiftwing evolves into one of the strongest, netting a solid fly speed.
    Well, yes, but it's always going to be at least your third shifting feat, right? Taking it when you can't fly seems like a trap, since the bonus on Fly checks obviously won't do anything before you have the ability to fly, so I'm a little surprised that it's even an option.

    Also worth noting that since maneuverability in PF just represents a bonus or penalty to Fly, having both a Fly bonus and a maneuverability upgrade is probably redundant.

    What if the base benefit instead gave you, like, a bonus to Acrobatics checks made to jump, or reduced falling damage, or something like that? That way, there'd be some reason to use it even if you don't already have two other shifting feats, and you'd still have the Fly bonus wrapped into the maneuverability upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    Precedent was a Bloodforge feat with type restrictions.
    I'm not familiar with Bloodforge, but the feat seems pretty strong compared to Paizo material. I don't usually have a problem with fast healing being available to players, but it is definitely surprising to see it this easily available as an always-on ability at such a low level. My instinct would normally be to give it a "Must be 7th level" type of prerequisite, or some other form of level-gating, considering how powerful it is.

    Edit: It would be a nifty shifting feat as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    The point of Rapid Shifting is to preserve your swift, and ultimately to let you do it defensively..
    My point is, if shifting feats only grant you their benefit while you're shifting, it doesn't function correctly, because it only lets you shift faster when you're already shifted—not very useful. This is pretty easily patched by adding a "While using this shift..." type of clause on the other feats (which also has the side benefit of making them read slightly more clearly), so that "You only gain the benefits of shifting feats while shifted" doesn't need to be a general rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    The bolded is the correct interpretation.
    The text could definitely be clearer on this point, then.
    Last edited by Troacctid; 2016-02-24 at 07:07 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Feats:
    Feral Vitality: Overflowing Life got another qualifying subtype, kitsune and changelings are happy.


    Shifting feats:
    Is it really necessary to have duration on most of them?
    Senses shift is probably needed.


    Chimera Soul:
    What's the point of imaginary natural attacks? Strikes from most other disciplines can be initiated with 2d6 twohander, and Chimera's damage dice don't look impressive.

    Primal Fang: too strong for level 1 boost.
    Primal Surge: too weak for level 2 boost. Even for level 1 one.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaa View Post

    Chimera Soul:
    What's the point of imaginary natural attacks? Strikes from most other disciplines can be initiated with 2d6 twohander, and Chimera's damage dice don't look impressive.

    Primal Fang: too strong for level 1 boost.
    Primal Surge: too weak for level 2 boost. Even for level 1 one.
    The point of imaginary natural attacks is that you won't be prevented from using your maneuvers if you're in the wrong stance or otherwise lacking the natural attack needed to initiate the maneuver. I expect most people will be using the stances in combination with their own natural attacks to maximize the effectiveness of the maneuvers, but if you find yourself in a position where you're unable to do so, you can still initiate the maneuver.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Should have worded it better. Why maneuvers that require specific natural attacks don't grant these attacks with regular damage dice for initiating that maneuver?

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaa View Post
    Should have worded it better. Why maneuvers that require specific natural attacks don't grant these attacks with regular damage dice for initiating that maneuver?
    Because doing that would take up a lot of space due to the need to specify the damage of each natural weapon granted by each maneuver in each maneuver's description. The stances do a much better job of handling the "grow natural weapons" bit because they're designed to be persistent effects.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Well, interesting to read but in my opinion, somehow flawed. Somehow, I´m missing some clear and conceive interaction with the basic rules framework here.

    The whole playtest document rides heavily on the "Marry Shelly/Gothic Theme" but doesn´t really provide answers to some questions. For example, wielding pure silver weapons has no trigger condition on when you could contract lycantrophy (like, for example, being handled equally to Poison Use), the whole "Contracting Lycanthrophy" thing with a fixed DC of 15 is somehow a joke and delegates that to be a low-level thread for most martial classes, and so on.

    For the rituals, I would prefer them to be more in line with the basic ritual rules we have right now (Occult Adventures, Hell Unleashed) instead of being based on some teamwork feats.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Well, interesting to read but in my opinion, somehow flawed. Somehow, I´m missing some clear and conceive interaction with the basic rules framework here.

    The whole playtest document rides heavily on the "Marry Shelly/Gothic Theme" but doesn´t really provide answers to some questions. For example, wielding pure silver weapons has no trigger condition on when you could contract lycantrophy (like, for example, being handled equally to Poison Use), the whole "Contracting Lycanthrophy" thing with a fixed DC of 15 is somehow a joke and delegates that to be a low-level thread for most martial classes, and so on.

    For the rituals, I would prefer them to be more in line with the basic ritual rules we have right now (Occult Adventures, Hell Unleashed) instead of being based on some teamwork feats.
    Could you expand on what issues you're having with pure silver vs. lycanthropy? I really don't understand what you're getting at, werewolves have DR/silver, that's why it's a weakness for them. Merely handling it does nothing, nor do I really think it should.

    As for the werewolf bite, that's entirely based on the 1st party lycanthropy template which has the exact same effect with the exact same wording. It's also not the only option for contracting the werewolf template, alternative rules are included in the same section.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    Could you expand on what issues you're having with pure silver vs. lycanthropy? I really don't understand what you're getting at, werewolves have DR/silver, that's why it's a weakness for them. Merely handling it does nothing, nor do I really think it should.

    As for the werewolf bite, that's entirely based on the 1st party lycanthropy template which has the exact same effect with the exact same wording. It's also not the only option for contracting the werewolf template, alternative rules are included in the same section.
    Slight misunderstanding. The section is labeled "Origin of the Wolf" but has remedies to it included and intermixed.
    You mention surviving a silver bullet to the heart as potential cure if you survive (how?), contrast that to damning yourself in the process of stealing blessed silver (What´s that? And how are you damned?)
    I was under the impression that said damnation is keyed to lycanthropy.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    Slight misunderstanding. The section is labeled "Origin of the Wolf" but has remedies to it included and intermixed.
    You mention surviving a silver bullet to the heart as potential cure if you survive (how?), contrast that to damning yourself in the process of stealing blessed silver (What´s that? And how are you damned?)
    I was under the impression that said damnation is keyed to lycanthropy.
    Shot trough the heart with a silver bullet is just one of those weird werewolf legends. it "Kills the werewolf, and saves the man".

    Stealing the silver is contextual, and not directly related to lycanthropy. The damnation is from the evil act of stealing from a goodly church.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    I'm honestly not a huge fan of being able to remove the template long after it has been applied. It seems like a mean move to do to a player, basically an ultra permanent negative level, and it seems too easy to solve a problem with an NPC. So silver bullet + breath of life instantly solves unwanted wolf problems.

    I feel that eventually the curse should fill your very soul and become irremovable without high-level magic like wish.
    Last edited by Knight Magenta; 2016-02-26 at 11:06 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Magenta View Post
    I'm honestly not a huge fan of being able to remove the template long after it has been applied. It seems like a mean move to do to a player, basically an ultra permanent negative level, and it seems too easy to solve a problem with an NPC. So silver bullet + breath of life instantly solves unwanted wolf problems.

    I feel that eventually the curse should fill your very soul and become irremovable without high-level magic like wish.
    These are intended to be optional cures, with a variety of them available to allow you to customize these werewolves to fit with your setting and the game you want to run. I plan on adding more later, and the final product will include language to make their status as options more clear. So if it's something that you want to alter or adapt to fit your game better, please feel free to do so.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    There was a pathfinder Society scenario that involved curing a werewolf. I'm not sure how much of it was our DM improvising but he implied that we had to use wolfsbane before the next full moon. We captured the wolfman and force fed him wolfsbane until he got better. I later realized that wolfsbane is a Con poison; I felt really sorry for the poor guy.

    I would really like some DM guidance on how to drop a werewolf into a party that otherwise does not have templates.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Magenta View Post
    There was a pathfinder Society scenario that involved curing a werewolf. I'm not sure how much of it was our DM improvising but he implied that we had to use wolfsbane before the next full moon. We captured the wolfman and force fed him wolfsbane until he got better. I later realized that wolfsbane is a Con poison; I felt really sorry for the poor guy.

    I would really like some DM guidance on how to drop a werewolf into a party that otherwise does not have templates.
    If I'm remembering Lords of Night correctly, the rule was one experience track slower than the base, or one level behind if the base track is slow.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    I have to admit I am enjoying the idea that for at most 1 trait and two feats a character can pick up Fast Healing 2. This is due to Chimera Soul giving the required subtype to anyone who knows a single maneuver from it.

    The shifting feats seem fun, though I am sad at the incredibly short duration for expanding oneself two size categories (just 2 rounds per shift). It is nice that works regardless of creature type though.

    I am looking forward to getting a chance to test out Chimeric Soul in an upcoming game. I think it will make for an interesting character. Spontaneously growing random natural attacks should be fun.


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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    I love it so far, but I feel like it's missing out on an opportunity for a werewolf bard archetype with perform: howl. Maybe a relentless tracker ranger or werewolf monks using self discpline to hold back the beast inside.

    I guess I'm really asking "Are there any plans for more archetypes?"

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordChucks View Post
    I love it so far, but I feel like it's missing out on an opportunity for a werewolf bard archetype with perform: howl. Maybe a relentless tracker ranger or werewolf monks using self discpline to hold back the beast inside.

    I guess I'm really asking "Are there any plans for more archetypes?"
    Maybe trade Favored Terrain for a free shifting feat at each instance for the animal companions. Trade Endurance for spells, powers, maneuvers, veils, ect to affect the animal companion at 30ft. Trade Evasion/Improved Evasion for the animal companion to benefit from Track, Swift Track, Woodland Stride, and Hide in Plane Sight if within 30ft of the Ranger.

    It would thematically show a deep bond between the lycanthrope and its animal companion by sharing its ability to shift and alter its form with the companion. It also demonstrates a more pack minded mentality by giving up on abilities that only benefit itself by sharing its more passive abilities with its animal companion. It affects a fair number of abilities, but not enough to disqualify the archetype from being used with others.


  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    So you did Vampire, now you're doing Werewolf... All you need is Frankensteins and/or Mummies, and you guys will be the World of Darkness of Pathfinder!

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by digiman619 View Post
    So you did Vampire, now you're doing Werewolf... All you need is Frankensteins and/or Mummies, and you guys will be the World of Darkness of Pathfinder!
    *Looks at DSP's Monster Classes doing Demons, Fey, Flesh Golems, Mummies and Ghosts*
    Last edited by Milo v3; 2016-02-26 at 07:57 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Cool supplement so far.

    I was worried that given the werewolf centric title there wouldn't be much content for the werecapybaras, wereskunks and werepelicans I use in my games, but a lot of this stuff is very ubiquitous, easily refluffed, and decently well tuned.

    I'm not terribly impressed with the discipline's power, but that almost feels intentional and the maneuvers are generally interesting enough.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by digiman619 View Post
    So you did Vampire, now you're doing Werewolf... All you need is Frankensteins and/or Mummies, and you guys will be the World of Darkness of Pathfinder!
    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    *Looks at DSP's Monster Classes doing Demons, Fey, Flesh Golems, Mummies and Ghosts*
    Guys, I think we've figured out their secret plan! Their logo should have been the first sign. ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED!!!!!

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    I think the Pack rituals and feats could be improved. The flavor is strong, I have no problems there. However, I'm not sure what is required to use them and how that will interface with actual games.

    I can come up with a few interpretations: First, as long as they can learn them from a werewolf, any group can preform a ritual. Second, as long as there is one werewolf, a pack can be formed and complete a ritual, but the alpha must be a werewolf. Third, only werewolves can be members of a pack or participate in rituals.

    If you meant the third, I encourage you to reconsider. These are interesting and flavorful touches, and restricting them to games with multiple werewolves seems like a mistake. It is hard to get a group together like that, and it restricts the use of this book with Lords of the Night, even though they would work so well together. If you are concerned about making them too accessible, I would encourage the second option above with an additional restriction of a feat, trait, or ritual to have a non-werewolf join the pack.

    I also am a little concerned about the power of Song of the Wyrd Howl. This is very powerful with all-day buffs, and the Alpha Benefit is just amazingly good.

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Now I'm all excited for Lords of the Pit (Demons) and Lords of the Scale (Dragons) and Lords of the Void (needs no explanation).
    If a sword had memory, it might be grateful to the forge fire, but never fond of it.

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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by CGNefarious View Post
    Now I'm all excited for Lords of the Pit (Demons) and Lords of the Scale (Dragons) and Lords of the Void (needs no explanation).
    Naw, he hasn't seen print in years. Ob Nixilis is the new Demon baddy nowadays.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    All right, let me just say that I'm glad you guys are still trucking.

    However, being unaware of the vampire stuff, when I heard "Lords of the Wild," I got my hopes up for a Druid/monk prestige class that would let me pull off what Rafiki did in the last fight scene of The Lion King. My hopes were dashed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Fortunately, a Monk 1/Warblade 19 uses Iron Heart Surge to end the Monk character class, and the day is saved.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf DW View Post
    All right, let me just say that I'm glad you guys are still trucking.

    However, being unaware of the vampire stuff, when I heard "Lords of the Wild," I got my hopes up for a Druid/monk prestige class that would let me pull off what Rafiki did in the last fight scene of The Lion King. My hopes were dashed.
    Yeah, I will say my mind would spring to werewolves easier with "Lords of the Moon." Even Paizo does that; Blood of the Night dealt with vampires/dhampir, and Blood of the Moon dealt with lycanthropes/skinwalkers. Then again, Lords of the Moon could sound like something actually dealing with moon-royalty... One misconception or the other, I guess.
    Last edited by Ninjaxenomorph; 2016-02-27 at 08:55 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaxenomorph View Post
    Yeah, I will say my mind would spring to werewolves easier with "Lords of the Moon." Even Paizo does that; Blood of the Night dealt with vampires/dhampir, and Blood of the Moon dealt with lycanthropes/skinwalkers. Then again, Lords of the Moon could sound like something actually dealing with moon-royalty... One misconception or the other, I guess.
    Moon royalty...Somebody would have gotten their hopes up for Sailor Moon, and then we're back to the same problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Fortunately, a Monk 1/Warblade 19 uses Iron Heart Surge to end the Monk character class, and the day is saved.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Make way for the MOON-PEOPLE!

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf DW View Post
    Moon royalty...Somebody would have gotten their hopes up for Sailor Moon, and then we're back to the same problem.
    I would love to see a Magical Girl class for Pathfinder... but then again, I'm weird.

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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    Quote Originally Posted by digiman619 View Post
    I would love to see a Magical Girl class for Pathfinder... but then again, I'm weird.
    That's one of the vigilante archetypes of ultimate intrigue weirdly enough.
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    Default Re: Dreamscarred Press Introduces Lords of the Wild- The Playtest!

    It's not the end of the world but I have to agree on the naming stuff.

    When I first read Lords of the Wild I assumed it had to do with either barbarians and druids (etc) or some sort of beast-race supplement that did something with gnolls and centaurs and lizardfolk and stuff.

    Not a huge deal tho.

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