Diablo III:3 Kanai Fix It?

[Tvtyrant]

If you're clearing rooms instantly, consider raising the difficulty for better drops and more XP (and a bit more challenge.) For me at least, the game is most fun when there is a risk of dying, particularly when elites show up with nasty affixes like Arcane or Molten.

The class sets IIRC only drop at 70 so you won't have to worry about that stuff for a long time yet, but the more legendaries you can get now (for cubing) the better.

Well I still die a lot as Wizard :P

I think we are aiming for t5 for 100% on legendary drops, then raise it again later.

Cubing?

[Rynjin]

I think this season's free set for Wizards is Firebirds so if you want to fix that "dying" problem you'll be covered.

[Tvtyrant]

Ended up caving a bit on pets. Gargantuan and Wall of Dead are both really good, and wall makes a combo with horrify.

[Psyren]

Well I still die a lot as Wizard :P

Did you say you weren't at max level (70) yet? If that's the case, it's actually worth lowering the difficulty. The time you spend dead (or running around trying not to be dead) is likely more than offsetting the increased XP you're getting from the monsters being harder. Typically, it's best to level up either on Expert, Master, or T1, and only worry about the higher difficulties once you hit cap and start getting legendaries and decent yellows. Typically folks stay on T1-T2 until they get a couple of set items (or get them for free via the "Haedrig's Gift" seasonal reward) and only raise it after that. A good rule of thumb back in the day was you could raise a torment level for every matching set Item you had on, and the sets have only been buffed more since then.

I think we are aiming for t5 for 100% on legendary drops, then raise it again later.

Keep in mind that "+100% legendary drops" is less amazing than it sounds. It means the already tiny legendary drop chance was increased by 100%, or doubled in other words. But if you double, say, 1%, it only becomes 2%. Still plenty of legendaries, but your ultimate goal (if you want to maximize your haul) is to get to a point where you can speedrun T13.

In addition, I don't know if you all play public games at all, but almost nobody plays T5 there. The bounty breakpoints are 1,4,7,10,13 while the seasonal challenges tend to plateau for a little while at T6 - so most people are in T4-6 and ignore T5.

Cubing?

Referring to Kanai's Cube - do you folks have it yet? You can't put anything in it until at least level 61+ but it doesn't care what level legendary you drop in, so save your orange items until then if possible.

[Tvtyrant]

Did you say you weren't at max level (70) yet? If that's the case, it's actually worth lowering the difficulty. The time you spend dead (or running around trying not to be dead) is likely more than offsetting the increased XP you're getting from the monsters being harder. Typically, it's best to level up either on Expert, Master, or T1, and only worry about the higher difficulties once you hit cap and start getting legendaries and decent yellows. Typically folks stay on T1-T2 until they get a couple of set items (or get them for free via the "Haedrig's Gift" seasonal reward) and only raise it after that. A good rule of thumb back in the day was you could raise a torment level for every matching set Item you had on, and the sets have only been buffed more since then.



Keep in mind that "+100% legendary drops" is less amazing than it sounds. It means the already tiny legendary drop chance was increased by 100%, or doubled in other words. But if you double, say, 1%, it only becomes 2%. Still plenty of legendaries, but your ultimate goal (if you want to maximize your haul) is to get to a point where you can speedrun T13.

In addition, I don't know if you all play public games at all, but almost nobody plays T5 there. The bounty breakpoints are 1,4,7,10,13 while the seasonal challenges tend to plateau for a little while at T6 - so most people are in T4-6 and ignore T5.



Referring to Kanai's Cube - do you folks have it yet? You can't put anything in it until at least level 61+ but it doesn't care what level legendary you drop in, so save your orange items until then if possible.

Doesn't playing the game that way feel boring? Is the end game content much more fun so skipping to it makes sense?

No public games, but I will keep the t breaks in mind. T4 should be coming up next session, t6 probably not for a while.

We haven't gotten the cube yet, but it is good to know about. I was storing my low level legendaries for grinding new characters, now they have an additonal use.

[Avilan the Grey]

I did try this again for an afternoon about a month ago. I had forgotten how bad the character models are. The environment and lighting are gorgeous, but the character models truly look like they're in a 10 year old game.

[Psyren]

Doesn't playing the game that way feel boring? Is the end game content much more fun so skipping to it makes sense?

Well only you can decide what is "fun," but for me getting to cap quickly is indeed the primary goal. For starters, Diablo is a loot-based game, and half the loot doesn't drop at all until endgame, so the longer you spend leveling the longer you're denying yourself potential drops. Crafting is also a big part of the endgame, and you get more materials to do it the higher difficulties you can clear quickly, which necessitates a reasonably powerful build. There's also the sheer satisfaction of stomping tougher bosses and challenges at maximum difficulty, like T13 Belial/Malthael or the Season Journey conquests.

Another source of "fun" for me is devising my own variations on existing builds, or even unique ones like my FoHsader and Petsader, and proving they can handle max difficulty bounties and rifts too.

We haven't gotten the cube yet, but it is good to know about. I was storing my low level legendaries for grinding new characters, now they have an additonal use.

Leveling new characters actually isn't a grind at all - just get a Gem of Ease and level it to 25+, and you will save so much time in the long run when leveling something new. You can pass it around among all your alts as needed. This is another reason why I encourage getting one character to max level quickly, the designers put time-savers in the game for the folks like you and me who enjoy having alts and trying new classes/builds.

[Tvtyrant]

Well only you can decide what is "fun," but for me getting to cap quickly is indeed the primary goal. For starters, Diablo is a loot-based game, and half the loot doesn't drop at all until endgame, so the longer you spend leveling the longer you're denying yourself potential drops. Crafting is also a big part of the endgame, and you get more materials to do it the higher difficulties you can clear quickly, which necessitates a reasonably powerful build. There's also the sheer satisfaction of stomping tougher bosses and challenges at maximum difficulty, like T13 Belial/Malthael or the Season Journey conquests.

Another source of "fun" for me is devising my own variations on existing builds, or even unique ones like my FoHsader and Petsader, and proving they can handle max difficulty bounties and rifts too.



Leveling new characters actually isn't a grind at all - just get a Gem of Ease and level it to 25+, and you will save so much time in the long run when leveling something new. You can pass it around among all your alts as needed. This is another reason why I encourage getting one character to max level quickly, the designers put time-savers in the game for the folks like you and me who enjoy having alts and trying new classes/builds.

That makes sense then. I'll try to get this guy up to max level in the next week or so.

Ooh, swanky. Nice of a developer to realize I don't really want to be level 1-20 over and over again. At least leveling is fast in Diablo, unlike say DDO where breaking out of the low levels is a literal chore due to lowering XP for repeat quests.

Edit: currently doing pretty well with the witch doctor. Restless Giant Gargantuan is still very relevant, not sure if I am ever moving that rune.

Horrify runes seem a toss up between Phobia and Face of Death. Bigger vs. Longer stuns is a difficult question.

Rain of Toads is my basic, you can shoot over walls/barriers.

Grasp with cooldown reduction is essentially a basic as well.

Soul Harvest is necessary for damage boosts and healing.

Finall Wall of the Dead is my favorite ability. All of the forms except poison are amazing, as they are actual physical barriers and let me lock away things I don't want to get close to. On staircases it actually feels broken, and even on open areas I can cordon off elites while I murder mobs for more stabby guys.

I usually trail about 15 evil gnomes at a time.

[Psyren]

Well of course DDO wastes your time, it's an MMO

With an Eased level 70 weapon, you can crank the difficulty up on your alt and still slaughter roomfuls of enemies at a time, only having to lower it once you start getting really high up (55+ or so.) I've used an Eased ancient 2-hander to level on T6 and the levels fly by. There is also a Kanai's Cube recipe that lets you use the gem to strip level requirements from other pieces of gear too, letting you level up while wearing an entire class set if you want, though personally I consider that to be overkill in terms of level of effort for time saved.

[Tvtyrant]

Well of course DDO wastes your time, it's an MMO

With an Eased level 70 weapon, you can crank the difficulty up on your alt and still slaughter roomfuls of enemies at a time, only having to lower it once you start getting really high up (55+ or so.) I've used an Eased ancient 2-hander to level on T6 and the levels fly by. There is also a Kanai's Cube recipe that lets you use the gem to strip level requirements from other pieces of gear too, letting you level up while wearing an entire class set if you want, though personally I consider that to be overkill in terms of level of effort for time saved.

I guess if you really like the feeling of leveling up? Like running 1-70 over and over again.

Is it just me or are dogs the worst ability in the game? Minimal damage, not very aggressive and everyone ignores them.

[Psyren]

I guess if you really like the feeling of leveling up? Like running 1-70 over and over again.

I honestly don't because leveling in Diablo 3 is a bit perverse. Enemies scale with you, so if you don't remember to go and re-up your gear periodically or lower the difficulty, the game actually gets harder over time. And craftable or vendor gear has several plateaus built in (e.g. 52-60 and 61-66) which removes even the second option. Often, you don't notice until you run into a mob that hits like a truck or shrugs off your attacks. And lastly, you get all the fun of doing it without having all the tools in your toolkit, and with very little rhyme or reason built into why certain skills and runes are locked behind certain levels. So to answer your question, no, I hate leveling 1-70 and want to get it over with as soon as possible on every character I play.

Is it just me or are dogs the worst ability in the game? Minimal damage, not very aggressive and everyone ignores them.

For damage yes, all the other pets are much better. Dogs need to focus a single target to do even passable dps, and their AI rarely works properly - and even if it did, well, AoE is king in this game. Gargantuans meanwhile have higher damage and several AoE options to deliver that damage to multiple targets.

For survivability though, dogs have two runes (Life Link and Leeching Beasts), which make you a lot tougher, so that's really their primary purpose. They're generally only used in Helltooth, and even then purely for defense as mentioned.

Speaking of builds, I just remembered that Firebats Arachyr is another powerful "pet-less" build if you were still interested in that.

[Avilan the Grey]

I must say that that for me, the best Diablo game is D2. I don't know exactly what is different with D3, except that A) I am older and not as easily amused (though barely; I love a lot of stuff that "mature" people scoff at), B) the total lack of actual builds (though this is not all that different from for example Grim Dawn where you have a more classic "build" mechanic BUT you can respec whenever you want) and C) the story is both disturbing and yet boring. I TRULY disliked the final reveal and I sort of lost the interest in the game after that. I can take mass death, torture of unnamed millions.. but that was truly disturbing on a whole different level to me. Especially since I couldn't stop it.

I don't know what it is that I feel D3 is lacking, exactly, but these three reasons are a huge part of it. At the same time I truly love certain aspects of it. I think the female barbarian, as a concept, is amazing: a Female strength-based character that LOOKS like she's strength-based. Just as an example. Also, of course, the cinematics are amazing. But then it's Blizzard.

The first time I finished the game was when it was new and the acution house stupidity was still going. But even with the re-calibrated loot tables it just lacks, compared to D2, Torchlight 2, Ttan Quest and Grim Dawn. For me, that is.

[Tvtyrant]

For damage yes, all the other pets are much better. Dogs need to focus a single target to do even passable dps, and their AI rarely works properly - and even if it did, well, AoE is king in this game. Gargantuans meanwhile have higher damage and several AoE options to deliver that damage to multiple targets.

For survivability though, dogs have two runes (Life Link and Leeching Beasts), which make you a lot tougher, so that's really their primary purpose. They're generally only used in Helltooth, and even then purely for defense as mentioned.

Speaking of builds, I just remembered that Firebats Arachyr is another powerful "pet-less" build if you were still interested in that.

It looks interesting. Seems like the best witchdoctor builds involve getting in the faces of everything and spamming close bursts.

[Psyren]

I must say that that for me, the best Diablo game is D2. I don't know exactly what is different with D3, except that A) I am older and not as easily amused (though barely; I love a lot of stuff that "mature" people scoff at), B) the total lack of actual builds (though this is not all that different from for example Grim Dawn where you have a more classic "build" mechanic BUT you can respec whenever you want) and C) the story is both disturbing and yet boring. I TRULY disliked the final reveal and I sort of lost the interest in the game after that. I can take mass death, torture of unnamed millions.. but that was truly disturbing on a whole different level to me. Especially since I couldn't stop it.

There are definitely "actual builds" in D3 - and far more of them than D2 had even without considering LoN.

I do agree with you on the story though, it was a complete load. I know a feature of the Diablo franchise is that the bad guy triumphs, but they forgot to at least make us feel like we'd won.

It looks interesting. Seems like the best witchdoctor builds involve getting in the faces of everything and spamming close bursts.

If you want long range there are powerful builds for that too, but they usually want specific items. Carnevil Zunimassa is one that wants you to be as far away as possible for example, as is Poison Cloud Helltooth, and LoN Spirit Barrage.

[Tvtyrant]

There are definitely "actual builds" in D3 - and far more of them than D2 had even without considering LoN.

I do agree with you on the story though, it was a complete load. I know a feature of the Diablo franchise is that the bad guy triumphs, but they forgot to at least make us feel like we'd won.



If you want long range there are powerful builds for that too, but they usually want specific items. Carnevil Zunimassa is one that wants you to be as far away as possible for example, as is Poison Cloud Helltooth, and LoN Spirit Barrage.

Poison Cloud Helltooth seems my speed, everything slowed and taking ongoing poison. Zunimassa is kind of cool for having as many pets on the field as possible, but I think I'm aiming for Helltooth.

[Avilan the Grey]

There are definitely "actual builds" in D3 - and far more of them than D2 had even without considering LoN.

I do agree with you on the story though, it was a complete load. I know a feature of the Diablo franchise is that the bad guy triumphs, but they forgot to at least make us feel like we'd won.

What I mean with build is the spec of the character without gear.
And since you can basically switch skills at will in D3... I don't consider that a build.

[Icewraith]

What I mean with build is the spec of the character without gear.
And since you can basically switch skills at will in D3... I don't consider that a build.

Not in combat you can't, and IIRC GRS lock your spec and gear in as well. They're builds.

[Psyren]

What I mean with build is the spec of the character without gear.

Diablo 2 was very gear-dependent too As are most RPGs.

And since you can basically switch skills at will in D3... I don't consider that a build.

So you want to punish people for experimenting? Bit sadomasochistic don't you think?

All you really need for a "build" is inability to switch during combat, and D3 even goes further than that by locking you down during the entirety of your GR.

Not in combat you can't, and IIRC GRS lock your spec and gear in as well. They're builds.

Yeah, that.

[Avilan the Grey]

It was actually one of the main things long-term fans had a problem with at launch (together with the auction houses):
In virtually all of these kind of games you commit to an idea, and if that doesn't work out you restart with a new character. Now, as I said, in Grim Dawn you actually don't do that, you pay 25 iron bits (coins) for every point you want to move to a different skill and you can do that any time you teleport to camp. But it FEELS like an old-timey build mechanic.

Anyway I am not saying it's a good or bad mechanic, all I am saying is that it somehow lessens my enthusiasm for the game. I am NOT one of those (who I despise) people who yelled "Blizzard ruined Diablo by catering to people too dumb to know how to stat a character!". Or even those who used the words "dumbed down" at all. This system is a completely valid approach, just like the new system in Fallout 4 for example.

Seriously though, the more I think about it, it's really the "feeling" of the game. Grim Dawn is VERY dark and Cthulhu-y almost. Yet it is actually MORE full of hope than Diablo 3. You really feell ike you'are making a difference.
I know 99% of people playing these games don't care about the story at all, and only see Diablo (or whomever) as a big pinata. But as someone who play these kind of games virtually only as Single Player? The story suddenly become much more important.

[Psyren]

It was actually one of the main things long-term fans had a problem with at launch (together with the auction houses):
In virtually all of these kind of games you commit to an idea, and if that doesn't work out you restart with a new character.

I'm aware that's how things used to be in the bygone days of yore, and I'm saying that design philosophy belongs on the dust heap of history. There's a reason so many newer RPGs (Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Divinity, WoW etc - and as you mentioned, Grim Dawn too) are following suit and allowing easy access to full character respecs without mandating rerolls.

The reroll-to-fix philosophy was fine back when we were all teenagers/YAs with maybe three games competing for our attention in a given month. Where it was fine for a single mistake or unanticipated patch setting us back hours if not days of work on a character, because we had the free time to just absorb that and keep plugging on. I lost count of how many hours I spent rerolling characters in Diablo 2, particularly after the patch 1.10 (the famous Synergy patch) came out and rendered all of my existing Hell-viable characters completely useless.

I can't and won't speak for you, but I know that for myself, I don't bloody have time to do that crap now. I'm an adult with responsibilities and a career (not saying you're not) and my gaming hours become more precious by the month. In an action game, I want challenge that comes from my mastery of the moment-to-moment reflex gameplay, not from build mistakes I made because I hadn't yet memorized all the arcane systems under the hood - or even that I had, but they all got revised in some patch and all my knowledge got thrown out the window.

So I definitely can't (and will likely never) understand how the existence of respecs can dampen enthusiasm - yours, or anyone else's.

Seriously though, the more I think about it, it's really the "feeling" of the game. Grim Dawn is VERY dark and Cthulhu-y almost. Yet it is actually MORE full of hope than Diablo 3. You really feell ike you'are making a difference.
I know 99% of people playing these games don't care about the story at all, and only see Diablo (or whomever) as a big pinata. But as someone who play these kind of games virtually only as Single Player? The story suddenly become much more important.

Plotwise we agree, Diablo needs some serious help here. Not only was the D3 story dissatisfying, RoS painted them into a corner. We've taken down all the Prime and Lesser evils and even the most powerful angels. What could possibly challenge us now? Are they going to take a page from Dragon Ball Super's playbook and bring out the "we're only one universe among many" card? When we're stomping angels, demons and gods, I don't see any other way forward, unless they remake the worldstone and bust us back down to being standard humans - which I doubt, because they've been widely using the term "Nephalem" in marketing and social media to describe the playerbase, much like Destiny calls its fans "Guardians," Warframe uses "Tenno", etc etc.

[Tvtyrant]

I got my witch doctor up to group, they are out of town for a robotics tournament so I decided to try the remaining classes.

What the heck is wrong with Daemonhunter? Leveling on expert with wizard and witch doctor is a snoozefest, daemonhunter it is murder.

[lord_khaine]

a) You need a new thread asap,

and b)

Plotwise we agree, Diablo needs some serious help here. Not only was the D3 story dissatisfying, RoS painted them into a corner. We've taken down all the Prime and Lesser evils and even the most powerful angels. What could possibly challenge us now? Are they going to take a page from Dragon Ball Super's playbook and bring out the "we're only one universe among many" card? When we're stomping angels, demons and gods, I don't see any other way forward, unless they remake the worldstone and bust us back down to being standard humans - which I doubt, because they've been widely using the term "Nephalem" in marketing and social media to describe the playerbase, much like Destiny calls its fans "Guardians," Warframe uses "Tenno", etc etc.

I do agree with that. Letting you casually murder prime evils in their true form kinda paints them into a corner with the next expansion. There really isnt much left to do at this point.
Or i guess except fight the corpse of the hero from D3, possesed by the spirit of some prime evil. Of course i guess it is another option to let heaven and hell sign a new truce where the worldstone is rebuild partly to mark Sanctuary as off limit for both factions. Just because they are both scared at what a Nephalem can do.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

a) You need a new thread asap,

Thread title suggestion: Necros aren't just for posts anymore!

and b)



I do agree with that. Letting you casually murder prime evils in their true form kinda paints them into a corner with the next expansion. There really isnt much left to do at this point.
Or i guess except fight the corpse of the hero from D3, possesed by the spirit of some prime evil. Of course i guess it is another option to let heaven and hell sign a new truce where the worldstone is rebuild partly to mark Sanctuary as off limit for both factions. Just because they are both scared at what a Nephalem can do.

Diablo franchise is pretty good at handwaving such petty trivialities. After all, at the end of D2:LoD, the worldstone is completely shattered, which should have caused Sanctuary to cease to exist.

[Lord Torath]

a) You need a new thread asap

Thread title suggestion: Necros aren't just for posts anymore!

Diablo III: 4 - Challenge Accepted!
Just kidding! I went with the "Necro" title