D&D Aangvanced (Avatar: The Last Airbender Screencap Comic)

[Sapphire Guard]

Having said that, Rick has also been a bit needlessly cruel. Remember 'little Allie one leg' That's directly bullying one of your players. Not the character, the player. Manny was at least doing it somewhat accidentally.

[Comissar]

Having said that, Rick has also been a bit needlessly cruel. Remember 'little Allie one leg' That's directly bullying one of your players. Not the character, the player. Manny was at least doing it somewhat accidentally.

Note, the following is not me excusing the behaviour, just trying to explain it . This leads back to the IC/OoC separation issues the players have, a lot of them seemed surprised at Allie being angry with Lex actually being Korra being angry with Tenzin earlier. Equally, notice that Amon (should we call him Noatok instead? It seems like it's the 'Church of Amon' rather than actual Amon as an individual this time) directly references the line between PC and NPC characters multiple times, something that wouldn't happen if it weren't for the flimsy separation displayed in the game. This means that even when something is being said IC with an NPC, or even a PC (though less often now we're in Korra), it can result in hurtful remarks being thrown at the players themselves. I brought this up a few times before during the Aang portion of the story (and it even got referenced in comic at one point ), but this is a good part of why things got as messed up as they did between the players with Manny at the helm.

Most of the players don't really know how to roleplay in terms of playing a character and keeping up that IC/OoC separation, instead they mostly 'rollplay', having the character be a set of statistics with only the barest personality tacked on to differentiate them from the player (Mac is particularly guilty of this, remember that Katara was intended to be a Good character in comic, as well as one that had a high level of empathy). Now, this is probably something that we're all guilty of to a degree when playing. A character represents a facet of yourself. Their personality, history, and actions only exist because you've made them that way. It's why people tend to lean toward playing certain archetype's over others, they simply prefer to play things that appeal to them. With the gamers in the comic, this is taken to the logical conclusion. They practically only play characters that match their personalities. Rick, for example, tends to play Lawful Good characters and is himself a generally nice person most of the time. I also want to stress that this is fine provided you don't take negative IC interactions (being attacked by an NPC, talking with a hostile character, etc.) personally, which is where everything breaks down a bit. The group still needs to shake that personal approach off, because if they don't then they're back to the issues they had under Manny. Allie's doing great, Damien's never really struggled at this, and so is also doing fine with Bolin, Lex is being over-protective, but is improving (in large part because he's taking the time to get advice on what his character would do, something he should need to do less and less often as the game progresses), Shelby's also not really struggled with separation in the past, but is instead battling the system itself this time round, Rube's doing fine so far, and Mac's still Mac (possibly a little unfair, we've not seen enough of her yet to judge properly).

With Rick, this is probably the first time he's had to actively play an evil character, and it's purely because he's DM that he's needing to do so. It makes total sense that he would view an antagonist as having an inferiority complex, but he's lead it to a weird place. Amon is misogynistic (that's... fine, I guess, as long as it remains IC. It's a risky trait to give if you're not sure the rest of the table's mature enough, though), he's got a chip on his shoulder about being an NPC (this breaks the IC/OoC divide pretty solidly, but is not actively damaging and could actually be an interesting motivator so long as the table as a whole is used to such breaks. Which they are.), and he's also willing to bully the players. Not the characters, the players. This one isn't cool. It breaks IC/OoC immersion but, more importantly, bullying is a good way to destroy someone's sense of self-worth. Now, if Rick's only ever played in games where this kind of thing is the norm (Manny's sessions give this impression, we've got no reason to assume Mac's were different aside from the possibility that her campaigns were literally just dice rolling) then he could claim ignorance. But, as a psychologist, he should definitely know better. Time will tell if he grows out of it, or if he needs a metaphorical slap in the face to get him to stop.

Unrelated to all of the above, but I only just noticed the meta-joke of Korra being super-diplomatic.

[Urzamax]

Time will tell if he grows out of it, or if he needs a metaphorical slap in the face to get him to stop.

An excellent analysis. I agree with the majority of your points, my only real quibble being that, given how this table is, that slap may be more than metaphorical.

[DeadpanSal]

Yeah, Rick is a great DM and really making the table a better place. But Noatak is horrible! Making him a ruthless and sentient NPC with weaponized awareness of the Player/Character divide is a little extreme for Rick to do, but I think Allie's tough enough to take it. You don't make it through cheerleading tryouts with a metal leg without learning to take some mockery!

[kreenlover]

I just came here to say, the fact that Bonnie ran an Adventure Time campaign, where the biggest DM mouthpiece/DMPC is Bonnibel Bubblegum, is simply perfect.

Though that makes me wonder...if the characters of the TV series are the regular crew, what story did Bonnie run people through? Was it Marceline, Simon, Betty, and the other scenes we get of the apocalypse, and of Early Ooo? Or was it about the Finn and Jake's parents, since both of Finn's parents have led very interesting and adventurous lives? Or was it about some other time period/story that I'm somehow forgetting about?

[Sapphire Guard]

Huh, I'm not as forgiving as the rest of you on this.

A key point is that he doesn't know Allie, she's new to the table, he doesn't know her breaking point, or whether things she laughs off on the surface are actually hitting home.

Not that long ago, Rick came close to doing serious damage to Rube by taking playing psychologist too far. From someone else at the table, this might be understandable, but he should know better!

[eschmenk]

For me, I just let the IC/OoC separation line blur in that scene. There was definitely a "whoa!" reaction, but to me that was mostly the Amon guy saying it, not Rick. Perhaps the blur between IC/OoC is just part of the style of the comic and to some extent, at least, we should just accept it.

BTW, if we go by what Shelby said, Rick had Allie figured out. Rick may have spent some time talking with her before the first session. And Allie knows a surprising amount of the group's history. She apparently even asked to be treated the way Manny would have treated her. So yeah, I guess she wants to be drugged and so on, according to what she said.

[JohanOfKitten]

Last week, while reading my DanDaangvanced feed, I've got a new theroy, looking at the season 4 of Korra.

Spoiler: Season4 theory spoilers

Show

In page 1305, http://dandaangvanced.tumblr.com/pos...nny-visits-the
Rick and Manny hinted that Mary Weers is not just only an autoritative DM and a big game products editor, but a bit of an autoritative game products editor, try to push tha gaming world in the rails she made, 'cause it's the one and good way to do it. She floods the market with her modules and add-ons. (in different games. Lately, Mack uses a Mary Weers book to "buy" special equipment for the fire furret team, so she writes things that fits in some homebrewed shadowrun campaign).


And that remind me of someone, a poor girl that see her land falling in chaos and trying to restore order, through her autoritative ways : Kuvira.

I suddenly find that it could be a interesting link to make in the story. If that's so, the dialogue between Rick and Manny is some foreshadowing of what's to come. Maybe Mary Weers may start to mess with the group (after some big event linked to season 3, like Manny's return or a big clash in a convention with the finally of season3...)

And I was thinking of it and putting pieces together : Bolin/Damien being a bit down, betraying the other players to rally the big bad, would work really well if Kuvira is played/DMed by Damien's mother.
I think it could lead to some good drama.
A possibility is that Kuvira is not Mary Weers, but Janine Weers, with some equivalent purpose behind

Maybe Janine is send by her mother to put things right in her little bro's game, and Mary Weers have some sort of emotional/psychological/economical (yes, economical : they work both in the same branch, it could bring dirty comercial stuff) lever to make her act as she wishes.


And just after putting that theory in place, I read the next page : Damien is afraid of his mother. Confront her is something that he can't do (for now). It fits with my idea.

Maybe Lex's game, edited by Janine, will start some intern war in the Weers family at some point.

[Cedar]

Bleeh. Love triangle. Hopefully that'll be handled better than in the series..

[JohanOfKitten]

I love this pseudo love triangle and how we have the roleplay guy, totally in it, the one who tries to calcultate how much XPs it can get them and the one who doesn't want it at all but falls in it unwilllingly



Addentum to my season 4 theory :

Spoiler

Show

I've think a bit about some characters : Zaheer and prince Wu.
Zaheer is a shadow place, but we can assume it will be some kind of big bad Rick, pushing to far some psychological principles in the game, pushing it into chaos.

After that, the group can't really play with Rick as DM. At that point, someone else take the DM charge (Kuvira). With that, I'm wondering if Kuvira is Mary/Janine Weers, or ir she's Mack, the Rollplayer that follow the Weers' path.
The prince Wu, I think, fits well with our dear Manny : this world's ruler by birth right, but that showed himself unfit to rule it correctly, with a complicated but close relationship with Mako/Rube...

It would be fun to have Manny being prince Wu
(But if that's so, I must delete of my memories all the tumblrs shipping wuko !

[DeadpanSal]

Okay, none of JohannofKitten's theories are at all likely.

[JohanOfKitten]

My life is sad

Wait, no... It means I've an all new world of theories to craft, better that thoses ones
(But I won't bother you with that!)

[DeadpanSal]

Well, maybe at least one theory will be right. But I'm not saying anything more than that!

But between people guessing here and guessing on Rastaba's comic every time Weers Publishing comes up...

[aurilee]

I haven't had much time to post about this comic lately (mainly because every time I was about to, I realised there was a lot I wanted to say and I wasn't going to have time to type it. :P), but it has been such a joy to read these past few weeks I just had to pop back in!

Oh my god the Rube/Damien/Mac/Allie dynamic is just the greatest thing ever. Rube's maybe-kinda-sorta-feelings towards Mac (also I recall it being implied that maybe Damien and Mac had a history...maybe that'll come up?), plus Allie's friendship with Rube and admiration for Mac...it's too good.

I really liked seeing Rube come into his own with this arc, and when he went into "I'm using capital letters now" mode, I just melted. He's come such a long way, and now he's not only being accepted by the group, but he's growing more confident in himself.

I was legit concerned when Damien switched to his white text bubbles in his fight with Mac though. He doesn't actually seem to be doing to well here. Sure, he's having fun and being silly, but Lex's publishing deal in particular looks to be getting to him.

Lin also presents an interesting mystery! How did Toph have a kid? Cloning? Bloodbending-necromancy?

I looked back at the strip where she "died", but we never see a body. There was a funeral, but again, no body was seen. Rick mentioned resurrecting her, but she refused. So all we know is that she fell and was apparently at -10HP.

Considering Rick mentioned bringing her back in a trailing off kinda way, and Lin is his DMPC...I wouldn't be surprised if Aang and Katara did something to bring Toph back.

OR...to parallel the mystery of Lin's father in the show, Toph was never really brought back, but Lin (and her sister presumably) were somehow reborn from Toph (again, probably using bending trickery by Katara/Aang, maybe some type of bloodbending) and Toph is still dead.

Can't wait to see how this works out!

Honorable mentions of things I love:
Lex growing up and taking care of Allie
Pabu
Pabu
Pabu
Damien being hammy
Allie being chipper
Pabu
...
and Pabu

[DeadpanSal]

If you guys aren't following Steven and The Crystal GMs (which you should!), there's a lot of relevant information there for what's happening. Bonnie (who played with this table until the Bleach campaign), moved on to healthier things and new stories. There's a lot of pages I want to point out!

Page 432! Bonnie, about to leave for the D&D Aangvanced table, talks to Phoebe about the a publishing company going under.
http://crystalgms.thecomicseries.com/comics/432/

Page 379! Bonnie hits a low and feels like she can't go back to face the table.
http://crystalgms.thecomicseries.com/comics/379

Page 385! The players reflect on Tom, who works for Weers Publishing.
http://crystalgms.thecomicseries.com/comics/385/

From her post on 432: "Consider this more or less confirmation that YES, there IS some degree of collusion...I admit nothing more."

[aurilee]

If you guys aren't following Steven and The Crystal GMs (which you should!), there's a lot of relevant information there for what's happening. Bonnie (who played with this table until the Bleach campaign), moved on to healthier things and new stories. There's a lot of pages I want to point out!

Page 432! Bonnie, about to leave for the D&D Aangvanced table, talks to Phoebe about the a publishing company going under.
http://crystalgms.thecomicseries.com/comics/432/

Page 379! Bonnie hits a low and feels like she can't go back to face the table.
http://crystalgms.thecomicseries.com/comics/379

Page 385! The players reflect on Tom, who works for Weers Publishing.
http://crystalgms.thecomicseries.com/comics/385/

From her post on 432: "Consider this more or less confirmation that YES, there IS some degree of collusion...I admit nothing more."

I'm loving the conspiracy vibes going on here. It's all very X-Files, but where the Smoking Man is Damien's mom. :P

EDIT: DAMN! Manny just got deconstructed by someone who isn't Rick or Allie! Poor Manny though...I mean, it looked like he was changing but he can still be set off by certain things...It's a long road to recovery for Manner it seems

[Urzamax]

I am very much inclined to agree with Phoebe by this point--Finn is totally magic.

[aurilee]

I am very much inclined to agree with Phoebe by this point--Finn is totally magic.

The only explanation for his expert handling of Manny.

Also I think Fun Jim and Simon need to have a buddy movie after Damien and Rube do theirs.

[DeadpanSal]

So many shoutouts. So many abandoned Campaign Comics. A good chunk of the list on Manny Interlude #7 are abandoned and didn't make it far. I especially would have liked to see more Knights of the Buena Vista.

[Urzamax]

Hmm, it mentions a Ben from D&D Aangvanced, but I don't remember anyone by that name. From one of the Backstories, maybe?

Also, is this going to be where he meets Betty? That's adorable.

Which anime is this, by the way? Looks quite interesting.

[Freed]

Hmm, it mentions a Ben from D&D Aangvanced, but I don't remember anyone by that name. From one of the Backstories, maybe?

Also, is this going to be where he meets Betty? That's adorable.

Which anime is this, by the way? Looks quite interesting.

Maybe he meant from Ben from Darth's and Droids? Anyway, the anime is Boku no/My Hero Academia. I think all the YMs are superhero themed.
EDIT: Nope, Ben was Shelby's first DM. He's apparently the worst.

[aurilee]

So it looks like we might be seeing more of Tom's history here too? Also getting some adversarial vibes between him and Janine.

Mary Weers is developing into quite the villain here. The YM events have a sort of cockfight element to them that's a little disturbing (like she's gathering all the top young players together and watching them fight for title) and you combine that with her Smoking Man thing of quietly shutting down table after table...Poor Damien. His childhood didn't stand a chance.

Kind of expecting hoping her first appearance to be as Queen Beryl and/or Metaria.

[Freed]

So it looks like we might be seeing more of Tom's history here too? Also getting some adversarial vibes between him and Janine.

Personally, I see more between him and Wallace, but it might work out that way.

[aurilee]

Personally, I see more between him and Wallace, but it might work out that way.

Oh there's definitely something going on there between him and Wallace, I just thought I'd mention the Janine thing since that was more unspoken than the rather vocal issues between Wallace and Tom.

[Kantaki]

Oh my, is everyone in this universe absolutly insane?*
I mean never mind the disfunctional gaming group we are following, judging by some of the background the whole world- or at least the roleplaying community- is kinda on the crazy side. I mean how do you shut down a group's campaign? More importantly, why?** Unless the endgoal is that people stop playing- and buy material for -roleplaying games that seems pointless.
Oh well, crazy world aside I wonder how badly the latest Avatar-campaign will go. Not knowing LoK and judging by the Comic so far I would guess very.

*Looking at some of the characters in the current crossover- specifically the Grandline3.5 guys (or whoever Tom is) -that could be true.
The whole arc makes this look likely. A RPG-tournament to decide who gets a scholarship? What is this? The D&D version of Yugioh? Did Mary Weers study at Duel DM-ing Academy?
Nevermind that the tournament itself seems pointless. A nigh-unwinable game where you have to break your stuff when you loose?
Who plays that voluntary? I could understand it if the alternative was death, but outside of that? Nope.

**Okay, assuming this world is in fact insane it could make sense, in a "Play the "right" way or don't play at all" kinda way. Assuming it's some player(s) doing it- although it still would be questionable.
But the implication that Damien's mother, who seems to make her money with RPGs, is involved makes it weird again- even assuming crazy world.
I mean as long as her stuff is bought, what should she care how it gets used? Even if someone just bought them to have something to smoke it would certainly be a waste, but ultimately all that matters is that the stuff gets bought, isn't it?
Even if she does it to get her hands on their settings, how should that stop them from playing.
And assuming she really can- either by legal measures or by breaking them apart (From that one interlude about the Avengers game I guess the latter.) -again, why should she do so? The fact that they are already playing the Setting would mean that they are more likely to buy matching material.
So assuming Mrs. Weers really shuts down her own customers that would make her the queen of crazy world- possibly excluding this "Tom" guy.

[DeadpanSal]

Well, at least Allie's sane. And I think your take on the Yaburu Muda is right on the money. It's toxic and really pointless. You put in something with irreplaceable sentimental value and have a 99.99999% chance of losing it. That's not something that should be in line with having fun at a game. That's just mean spirited.

[Kantaki]

Well, at least Allie's sane.

Questionable. She is playing with the other protagonists after all. Voluntary. After hearing (almost*) everything about the previous campaign.

*Did they keep anything besides Mac's selfmade boyfriend a secret?

And I think your take on the Yaburu Muda is right on the money. It's toxic and really pointless. You put in something with irreplaceable sentimental value and have a 99.99999% chance of losing it. That's not something that should be in line with having fun at a game. That's just mean spirited.

Considering "stop having fun"-guys are a thing in our world I'm not that surprised that there is a rather... extreme competive RPG scene in this verse.
And I can see why players as talented as for example Shelby would be interested in a... lets call it "unique" challenge.
Having to destroy something precious to you is still a bit extreme.

Regarding the d-infinity-thing; wasn't there some technically RAW feat (ab)use that could make a d2 deal infinite damage?
Although I guess whatever Micah is far obscurer. And/or depends on some not easily available sourcebook(s).
I think the build Luke from Grandline 3.5 uses could go in a similar direction, assuming the comic ever gets that far.
Maybe not quite as extreme, but Luffy's various Gears definitely increase his fist's size by more than one category.

And now I kinda want to see a meeting between the GL3.5 guys and the D&D Aangvanced table. Just to see how it trainwrecks first, IC or OOC.

[Shogo]

So can someone explain how you can be a "pro" at something like this? I get the usefulness of crunching numbers for a solid spread of stats and abilities . . . But unless you're cheating with weighted dice or something, or being exploitative as hell with something like d-infinity, at the end of the day your performance is still dictated by random chance. You can't guarantee you're going to get good rolls, so why act like someone is amazingly skilled instead of just being amazingly lucky?

[Kantaki]

So can someone explain how you can be a "pro" at something like this? I get the usefulness of crunching numbers for a solid spread of stats and abilities . . . But unless you're cheating with weighted dice or something, or being exploitative as hell with something like d-infinity, at the end of the day your performance is still dictated by random chance. You can't guarantee you're going to get good rolls, so why act like someone is amazingly skilled instead of just being amazingly lucky?

Same way they always draw the cards they need in Yugioh I guess. They believe in the heart of the cards dice

More seriously I would guess it really comes down to getting enough numbers on your side to make failed rolls as unlikely as possible.
With enough experience and/or instinct it should then be possible to predict with relative high success which action is the most optimal in any given scenario.
That and having the right dice/dice rolling technique/dice treatment.

So a mix of RAW-abuse, experience, luck, borderline cheating and healthy superstitions.

[DeadpanSal]

That makes me wonder if Allie will learn to control her Shiny Shine set eventually. And also if Mac's Battousai dice were lucky or if she just really trusted in them.

Maybe you gotta have a dice set that you're perfectly in harmony with and have mastery of builds to be a pro?