Civ 5 GMR 15: Return to normalcy

[DodgerH2O]

Spoiler: Spectators: Turn 33 Update

Show

The thirty-third Trading Cycle has brought good tidings to the Golden Hub of Austria. The great caravan sent to the southern lake was able to establish a permanent trading bazaar and harbor. For the sake of simplicity we have designated it in our trading agreements as "Southharbor". If a more southern harbor becomes necessary, the merchant council will revisit this convention.
(http://i.imgur.com/twwtwxp.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/GBKI3j0.jpg)

Astute tradesfolk will notice the Chinese city of Shanghai, situated on a vein of Gold that the Hub wished to claim. Alas, negotiations broke down. The Golden Hub believes that positive relations with our neighbors were of higher value than the settlement, given the reputation of the Chinese Generals.

The Golden Hub itself prepares to mine the deep veins in the nearby foothills. The recent expansion of the trading circle has caused dissatisfaction among the merchants. We fear the Whale oil and ambergris will only make so much of a profit, and financing a faraway bazaar may require dedicated extraction. No merchant would lower themselves to such labors, so the financing of a crew of skilled Workers has begun. In addition, the purchase of a fleet of shallow-water exploration ships was completed. The value of meeting new trading partners will hopefully exceed the steep cost paid.
(http://i.imgur.com/8SLtsQt.jpg)


OOC: Sorry for the lack of updates, it's honestly been very slow. China beat me to the Pantheon I wanted and also my second city spot. I'm on a peninsula with one of the more powerful military civs between myself and the rest of the continent, apparently. On the plus side, I shouldn't have to worry much about anyone else, like the Mongols, but on the minus side, I might not last beyond Machinery, if China decides they want my land.

I finally got a second city, though. I'm intending for it to remain small, and serve more as a source of trade route happiness/gold and food/production to my Capital. I hope to soon have a third to get the Gems nearby and then buy City-States for the remainder of my cities. Unless my Trireme finds a nice unsettled island, which I can only hope for.

Barbarians killed the Scout I sent southward, and west was a dead end, so I've still not met any other players. I've been assured that land to the east exists, but the Barbs are still chasing my second scouting party all over the place.

Overall I don't really have any idea how I'm doing in the scheme of things, just that China looks a lot nicer. I really need to meet some more players, especially as I'll have an excess Gold resource soon.

[Ryuho Tsugu]

[Raging Barbarians isn't on, is it?]

Spoiler: Spectators

Show

are you serious

[Zevox]

[Raging Barbarians isn't on, is it?]

Would that just make them more common, or tougher? Because there do seem to be more than normal, but I don't think they're any tougher than normal. But of course it could just be my luck.

[Illven]

Shouldn't be. I never have it on.

Then I remembered I don't host this game.

[DodgerH2O]

Would that just make them more common, or tougher? Because there do seem to be more than normal, but I don't think they're any tougher than normal. But of course it could just be my luck.

If it were, I think we'd have even more barbarians. AFAIK it increases the spawn rate at camps but does not affect the strength of Barbs or the number of camps spawned.

My current suspicion is that nobody has been clearing camps, as I cleared the one closest to my land while taking my time about it and it only spawned one barb in that duration, which is typical. If we had Raging Barbarians I'd have expected at least two.

[Zevox]

If it were, I think we'd have even more barbarians. AFAIK it increases the spawn rate at camps but does not affect the strength of Barbs or the number of camps spawned.

My current suspicion is that nobody has been clearing camps, as I cleared the one closest to my land while taking my time about it and it only spawned one barb in that duration, which is typical. If we had Raging Barbarians I'd have expected at least two.

I did the same with one I found near my start point earlier. Now I've suddenly found another at a similar distance from my capital to the first, and my scout ran into a couple out a ways from me as well. Both of which have already spawned an extra warrior.

Eh, maybe I'm just underestimating how many there typically are.

[RayGallade]

It certainly seems like we've been dealing with more on my end. Granted, it might also just be horrible luck with the camp placements.

[DodgerH2O]

Is there any way to check? We can ask Narkis, but I don't know if the advanced settings even show up after you've started the game.

[Narkis]

[Raging Barbarians isn't on, is it?]

Shouldn't be. I never have it on.

[Ryuho Tsugu]

[So it's just RNG saying I don't deserve to be happy then. Good to know.]

[RayGallade]

Spoiler: Spectators

Show

A Traveler's Guide to Morocco

After many years of fording through barbaric lands, the Moroccan Outpost Bureau (MOB) has successfully seen to the establishment of a new trading post. Travelers are encouraged to visit the grand city of Mountain Prime, climb the scenic Mount Saini, and potential insipire future Moroccans in the ways of the future. To celebrate the founding of Mountain Prime, the capital has been re-christened to Trader's Rest.


Meanwhile, the Moroccan Investigation Bureau (MIB), is currently seeking out new lands for the MOB to tame. We have found a second holy mountain. Perhaps it is Morroco's calling to be a mountainous people. The MOB shall begin by settling the vast land between this Mount Kilimanjaro and Trader's Rest. However, the MOB will make it a priority to secure this mountain for our glorious people. Travelers are advised to seek out this mountain and plant Moroccan symbols around its base.

[Zevox]

[So it's just RNG saying I don't deserve to be happy then. Good to know.]

Well, if it helps, said RNG seems to have decided the same thing about a few of the rest of us.

[RayGallade]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Well met friend. The people of the lush and burning land of Morocco greet you. Although our request to send a consulate to your lands appears to have been misplaced, know that we have already requisitioned a building in Trader's Rest for your diplomatic representatives to be filled at your leisure. You should know that the Moroccan Outpost Bureau (MOB) is already en route to establish a new trading outpost to the north of your lands. We shall, however, attempt to avoid pressing into your own boarders.

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Well met friend. The people of the lush and burning land of Morocco greet you. Although our request to send a consulate to your lands appears to have been misplaced, know that we have already requisitioned a building in Trader's Rest for your diplomatic representatives to be filled at your leisure. You should know that the Moroccan Outpost Bureau (MOB) is already en route to establish a new trading outpost to the north of your lands. We shall, however, attempt to avoid pressing into your own boarders.

Spoiler: Morocco

Show

Uh, okay, I did not know we'd met. About the former, I think you're talking about an embassy deal, though I don't know what you mean by it being "misplaced." About the latter... if I'm not mistaken, you're saying you intend to settle a city north of my capital? If it's near the mountain with truffles nearby it, I'd ask that you change those plans. It will cause problems - I am currently readying to do exactly that, and frankly with the terrain and where the city-states and other civs in my area are, I do not have many alternatives for where to settle my cities. Going west puts me into Chinese territory, and going east will quickly put me into American territory because of the city-states and mountains I need to pass. I have one viable spot south of my city I intend to use as my third, but that doesn't even give me new luxuries, and is only a single spot.

[RayGallade]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Perhaps an arrangement can be reached. The land you are looking at will threaten our capital's growth range and our religious scholars cringe at the loss of such a valuable food source, as we count three potential truffle camps. What does Ethiopia have to offer that would offset these two affronts to the Moroccan Outpost Bureau, especially since our settlers have already departed for the contested lands?

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Perhaps an arrangement can be reached. The land you are looking at will threaten our capital's growth range and our religious scholars cringe at the loss of such a valuable food source, as we count three potential truffle camps. What does Ethiopia have to offer that would offset these two affronts to the Moroccan Outpost Bureau, especially since our settlers have already departed for the contested lands?

Spoiler: Morocco

Show

This early in the game? Nothing yet, I'm afraid. Perhaps later on I could offer you more favorable trade deals or something, but at the moment I don't even have spare luxury resources yet, as my first worker is still developing my lands. I have only my capital at this time, and that region is the one spot I thought I could settle a decent second city without coming into conflict with someone.

I will also warn you, there is a barbarian camp which has already spawned more units just a couple of tiles southwest of that mountain. My forces were moving to clear it in preparation for my own city, but if I see yours be settled, I will have no reason to do that.

(On the subject of your capital's borders, how close are we talking there? I haven't seen your lands yet, and I've seen a few tiles north of that mountain. I had intended to settle on the south side of the mountain.)

[RayGallade]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Depending on where your settlement establishes itself, our capital's southernmost boarder will be at risk. The MOB's recommended area for our settler places it 6 tiles away from Trader's Rest. Our main concern is for the truffles in the area. As our holy men have determined a most effective method to preparing the confections, the loss of three potential sources may be devastating to our cause.

In exchange for the truffle lands, however, do you believe that your people could help protect the great Mt. Kilimanjaro from the Americans and allow the MOB to claim it? If that were the case, we would potentially require a second settlement squad to establish a defensive outpost in the area. Once the MOB reports back, I can send you maps of the area with our proposed arrangements.

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Depending on where your settlement establishes itself, our capital's southernmost boarder will be at risk. The MOB's recommended area for our settler places it 6 tiles away from Trader's Rest. Our main concern is for the truffles in the area. As our holy men have determined a most effective method to preparing the confections, the loss of three potential sources may be devastating to our cause.

In exchange for the truffle lands, however, do you believe that your people could help protect the great Mt. Kilimanjaro from the Americans and allow the MOB to claim it? If that were the case, we would potentially require a second settlement squad to establish a defensive outpost in the area. Once the MOB reports back, I can send you maps of the area with our proposed arrangements.

Spoiler: Morocco

Show

Mt. Kilimanjaro? I'm surprised - that's the area to the east that I wished to avoid in order to not come into conflict with the Americans. I do have a Scout that was upgraded into an Archer in that area - currently trying to find its way past some Barbarians to explore further east - but I'm not sure what I could do to protect it from them short of starting a war if I see them moving to settle it, which I really don't want to do, and even then, one archer won't be able to stop that, since it can't even capture their settler in the event that it moved unprotected. And my other forces are dealing with the Barbarians in the other region we're discussing, so your settler will be able to reach that mountain well before them. Although I do think the Americans won't be settling the Mountain imminently - I know they just settled their second city, strangely north of that, directly across the bay from their capital. Perhaps they've unluckily missed actually finding the Mountain. But IIRC they have taken Liberty for their policies, too, so they may be able to make another settler quickly.

If you have suggestions for what I could actually do about it if the Americans moved to take it, I'm all ears, but I'm not sure how to go about that effectively.

As for the Truffles, I would of course be willing to trade some to you for favorable rates, once I get them established.

Edit: Alright, just took my turn, and looking carefully, I can see your borders just on the edges of the fog of war north of the truffle mountains (and I sent an embassy trade deal, for good measure). Hm, unfortunately, it does look like the ideal settling spots would likely overlap a couple of tiles with where your capital would probably grow to - although perhaps that's not such an issue, since your capital has a huge head-start on growing those borders. But I also can see only two sources of truffles - one east of the mountains, one north, and only one particular tile can put a city in range of both - which would also be one of the tiles likely to put it in range of your city's south border. Where is the third?

[Croverus]

Spoiler: Morroco

Show

The great and eternal Mongol leader wishes you congratulations on the establishing on your city. It does indeed seem like a wonderful place, a bit further east than expected but that is not an issue. On that, we do request to settle no further east, for doing so will encroach on lands the Mongol Empire is hoping to settle in. We also felt it fit to inform you that the land bridge South East of our capital will soon be settled and the border will stretch across the whole thing. If you have any scouts in the lands beyond it we regret to say that they will likely be stuck on that side until our nations can settle on terms for border crossing. We felt it only fair to warn you as you are our closest neighbor, and the only truly civilized group we have met aside from the city state of Florence, who we are friends with. Considering our proximity, and the rampant barbarians plaguing the land between us, I suggest we form a long term deal of some kind. The details, I have not thought of yet, but if the idea of partnering our two nations for whatever the future may hodl interests you, we will be happy to discuss potential trade of goods, coin, warriors, services, and so on.

[DodgerH2O]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Greetings from The Golden Hub of Austria. Our merchant council has heard reports of a settled land, east of Panama City. We wish to extend a formal exchange of messengers with the leadership of Ethiopia.

Also we were led to believe a path to the east existed along the peninsula. We see that your people have claimed the only known paths our scouts can find. Are your mapmakers aware of any other paths?

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Greetings from The Golden Hub of Austria. Our merchant council has heard reports of a settled land, east of Panama City. We wish to extend a formal exchange of messengers with the leadership of Ethiopia.

Also we were led to believe a path to the east existed along the peninsula. We see that your people have claimed the only known paths our scouts can find. Are your mapmakers aware of any other paths?

Spoiler: Austria

Show

I'm afraid I don't know what peninsula you speak of - and have not even met Panama City, though if memory serves I've heard from Illven that it's west of my lands - which makes answering your question a bit on the impossible side right now. I'll be happy to exchange embassies though, of course.

[DodgerH2O]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Our apologies. The Golden Hub orients itself centered around the Hub and has had no communication with other civilized lands beyond those claimed by China.

Let us share our knowledge, we hope you too will share what you know of the lands.

Our scouting party approaches the western border of lands claimed by your people, including a Marble quarry. To the west of the scouting party lies Panama City. The City-State controls the entire land bridge between a peninsula to the west and your lands. This ocean-surrounded spit of the western land is home to the Chinese directly to your west and the lands run by The Golden Hub to the north of that. Beyond lies the vast unclaimed ocean.

Technically we have only the information of the Chinese claiming that no other land bridges exist leading from their territory but the shape of the known world confirms that Austria itself is surrounded by ocean on three sides.

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Our apologies. The Golden Hub orients itself centered around the Hub and has had no communication with other civilized lands beyond those claimed by China.

Let us share our knowledge, we hope you too will share what you know of the lands.

Our scouting party approaches the western border of lands claimed by your people, including a Marble quarry. To the west of the scouting party lies Panama City. The City-State controls the entire land bridge between a peninsula to the west and your lands. This ocean-surrounded spit of the western land is home to the Chinese directly to your west and the lands run by The Golden Hub to the north of that. Beyond lies the vast unclaimed ocean.

Technically we have only the information of the Chinese claiming that no other land bridges exist leading from their territory but the shape of the known world confirms that Austria itself is surrounded by ocean on three sides.

Spoiler: Austria

Show

I see. I have thus far not scouted west from my capital, my units having become tied up fighting barbarians to my north and exploring to my east. I can tell you that in those directions, I see mostly land. Shortly to my south is a tundra-lined coast, and while I knew China's lands were to the west, I didn't realize they were isolated on a peninsula past the City-State they told me about.

The coast to my west stretches north at least a ways, but I cannot say if it bends west to connect back to your peninsula at any point, as my forces are dealing with barbarians in that area right now and cannot proceed with scouting until that's done. I do know that just north of where that's happening is Morocco's territory, though, as I recently made contact with them. As you can tell from my last few posts .

Eastward there is a lot of land, a couple of City-States, Mt. Kilimanjaro, and a couple of civs. Specifically America and the Maya, in that order.

[RayGallade]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Now that we have received some maps from the MOB, we believe that we can truly begin to negotiate about settlement rights.



Above is the original proposed settlement area for the MOB. While this would be a wonderful area for our own outpost, my advisors warn me that it is too close to allow you to settle, as this would be within 6 tiles of Trader's Rest. However...



If you insist on pursuing a settlement in the north, we believe this would be a fair compromise for your outpost. It allows you to access one of the camps of truffles. The only problem we see with it is that it is only 6 tiles away from your capital. Other than this, we believe this to be a reasonable settlement zone, especially as your people appear to worship the very rocks of this world.

Another option, though we have not marked it on the map, would be where the coastal jungle is. Although less useful than the suggested zone, it would grant you access to two of the truffle camps. Despite this, we believe it to be the lesser settlement zone, since there is little room for growth compared with the previous area.

Regardless of which zone you would choose, as part of our compensation, we are open to favorable trades in the future. We also ask, however, that we be allowed to establish an outpost in the vicinity.



This outpost is relatively barren compared to the one we are offering you. It has the difficulty of being close to your future boarders if both settlements are established. However, it would allow us access to one of the truffle camps and may allow us to grow our own cotton. In addition, it guarantees us safe passage to the southeast and a potential staging area if we seek to settle Mt. Kilimanjaro before the Americans. This would also provide us with a trading post to reach out to your people, establishing a safe and prosperous relationship for years to come.

Are these terms fair? There is little land that we can work with between the two of us and we hope to see a prosperous relationship between our two peoples.

Spoiler: Mongolia

Show

The Moroccan Outpost Bureau (MOB) thanks you for your kind words. We shall indeed avoid settling directly east, since that would certainly threaten your sovereign lands. We are curious, however, if your scouting parties have discovered any fertile lands to the north of Mountain Prime? If we cannot settle eastward, we would seek to settle further north to avoid a boarder conflict with your great people. Are you agreeable to us seeking out a potential outpost zone to the north? You ought to know that we are currently in negotiations with our southern neighbors about settlement rights to our south, so the MOB is feeling slightly pressured to find conflict free lands to establish trading posts for the benefit of all involved.

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Ethiopia

Show

Now that we have received some maps from the MOB, we believe that we can truly begin to negotiate about settlement rights.



Above is the original proposed settlement area for the MOB. While this would be a wonderful area for our own outpost, my advisors warn me that it is too close to allow you to settle, as this would be within 6 tiles of Trader's Rest. However...



If you insist on pursuing a settlement in the north, we believe this would be a fair compromise for your outpost. It allows you to access one of the camps of truffles. The only problem we see with it is that it is only 6 tiles away from your capital. Other than this, we believe this to be a reasonable settlement zone, especially as your people appear to worship the very rocks of this world.

Another option, though we have not marked it on the map, would be where the coastal jungle is. Although less useful than the suggested zone, it would grant you access to two of the truffle camps. Despite this, we believe it to be the lesser settlement zone, since there is little room for growth compared with the previous area.

Regardless of which zone you would choose, as part of our compensation, we are open to favorable trades in the future. We also ask, however, that we be allowed to establish an outpost in the vicinity.



This outpost is relatively barren compared to the one we are offering you. It has the difficulty of being close to your future boarders if both settlements are established. However, it would allow us access to one of the truffle camps and may allow us to grow our own cotton. In addition, it guarantees us safe passage to the southeast and a potential staging area if we seek to settle Mt. Kilimanjaro before the Americans. This would also provide us with a trading post to reach out to your people, establishing a safe and prosperous relationship for years to come.

Are these terms fair? There is little land that we can work with between the two of us and we hope to see a prosperous relationship between our two peoples.

Spoiler: Morocco

Show

In general, yes, your compromise seems good. I'd add a third option for where I'll settle my city: the location currently occupied by the Barbarian camp. That seems to lose me relatively little and gain me a port, which my capital lacks, plus push our respective settlements further apart to avoid interfering with each other. I'll decide on exactly which of the locations I use once my settler is prepared to set down, but it will be one of those three.

(Also, I see now why I missed the third truffles spot - my Warrior is currently sitting in the forest it occupies, to help with defense against the Barbarians. Derp.)

As for your own situation though, my personal advice? If you want to settle Mount Kilimanjaro, go now. The Americans just set down their second city a couple turns ago, so now seems your best window of opportunity to get there before they can settle it themselves. Waiting just gives them time to get another settler out, and with Liberty as their policy tree they can likely do that quicker than you if they have a mind to. The territory you've requested in our deal will be there when you're ready to settle it, I can promise you that.

[Croverus]

Spoiler: Morroco

Show

We have not yet explored north of the city state of Florence, do to the barbarians moving in the area. We have only two, possibly 3 viable spots to our east before hitting another nations potential territory but they are currently far enough away that we are avoiding any border conflicts with them, though there is a thin strip of land we are soon to establish a city, whos borders will cut off the lands to the east from passage. Once we are able to deal with the barbarian menace, we shall see what is north of Florence, if anything, and let you know if there is enough land that way in which we could both benefit.

[Illven]

Spoiler: Bird of Purgatory=America

Show

The Chinese people are sorry, but we see little benefit in a mutual embassy exchange at this time.

~Queen Wu Zetian of China.

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Morocco (RayGallade)

Show

Good news - the barbarians troubling the region we discussed so much are all but broken. They left their camp for some reason, and I was able to destroy it and kill the unit that was so foolish as to move out of it simultaneously. There is one more barbarian warrior still about, but no more, and I believe it's injured, too.

Also, I'm leaning towards setting my city down in the spot where the barbarian camp was, for access to the coast and because it's adjacent to one of the mountains, which I just noticed the spot you'd proposed before was not, and I would like at least one city that qualifies for the mountain-requiring structures. But that's good for you too, since it means less territory where our cities' borders will compete.

[Illven]

Spoiler: Sunday spectator updates

Show

A messenger interrupted a private meeting with Wu Zetian and the noble families. Instead of having this intropoler boiled alive, Wu Zetian graciously heard is plea.

From M'banza Kongo. A request to remove a barbarian enclave from the world.



People continue to be born in Shanghai. Population is booming, but the crowding is making some upset.





Our defensive forces report no problems with the savages. Even Shanghai's defense force is quiet.



Our work band moves to the horses outside our Capital, in an attempt to tame them.



Our wilderness forces retreat from the savage barbarians in an attempt to live.




Here we see that by Wu Zetian's grace, we are soon to ask and answer, what is Philosophy.



Here we see the layout of Beijing.



Shanghai about to finish it's paper maker.



Guangzhou will need a bit more time to finish it's paper maker.



The old elevated families, were recently given plots of land by Wu Zetian, to be passed down as they pleased, and done with as they wish.



The scholars say we are the best in total population, fertile lands, goods constructed, the wealth of our citizenry, and total available land, while being worst in nothing.









And our info archives are buzzing with activity.

[Illven]

Spoiler: Croverus, Mongolia

Show

We are sorry. Currently we are uninterested in providing you gold for a lux trade.

~Sincerely Wu Zetian.

Spoiler: Narkis, Maya

Show

Greetings fellow leader. We are offering to trade you Silver for your copper. We are aware that we both do not have spares. However, you clearly have access to more copper shortly, and I will have additional silver shortly. Are you interested?

~Sincerely Wu Zetian.