After the opener (possible spoiler)

[The Old Hack]

I've looked a bit at Parson's plans and am beginning to see why he gloated so when he realised Ansom had to cope with heavy fog of war. It all comes down to this line from Klog 4:

Stacks without a leader are forced to autoattack when in contact with units from non-allied capitals.

Suddenly, the dwagon party platter completely changes its nature. It is no mere stationary defense, it is a death trap for any unit that comes into contact with it. Unless Ansom has a Warlord in his advance guard, it will be compelled to attack once it reaches the dwagons, with results best left to the imagination. Now, combine this with the fact that Ansom is furious and will want to strike back at the dwagons who escaped him with no losses at all, and that to his knowledge, they will have had no time to heal... a truly classic mistake would be to launch a force into rapid pursuit of the wounded dwagons with no idea of what it was headed into. Especially since the units behind the first attackers would merely continue to advance into the meat grinder if they did not get orders telling them to halt their advance.

What is more, Ansom *cannot* bring his full force to bear on the dwagons due to the forest cover. His own flyers (absent for the moment, and possibly not all having Move enough to reach the party platter), his Woodsy Elves and his (forest) Gumps are the only ones capable of attacking. Poor poor Woodsy Elves if Ansom uses them to spearhead his counterattack...

Also a guess for what comes after the opener: the threat of disbanding will diminish with Parson's first successes. But from here on, the trick will be to make sure that Stanley actually uses Parson's plans without any additions of his own. This may be a much bigger obstacle than anything else.

(As an aside, how many Warlords do we know Ansom has? Himself, of course, Vinnie, Jillian and possibly sir Webinar... what *does* he have to use as a forward commander?)

[SteveMB]

(As an aside, how many Warlords do we know Ansom has? Himself, of course, Vinnie, Jillian and possibly sir Webinar... what *does* he have to use as a forward commander?)

In his speech to a fairly sizeable assemblage of allies, Ansom refers to them as "courageous and competent warlords". It's reasonable to assume that such a large force would have a fair number of warlords (though most of them would presumably be fairly low-level).

That said, the idea that Ansom will go chasing after the wounded dwagons, hoping to croak them before they can heal, and plow right into a wall of fresh ones does seem like the most straightforward possible explanation of the "new dimension" Parson saw when he learned that Ansom is operating under fog-of-war limitations.

[PirateMonk]

...So Ansom loses a large portion of his forest-capable units and fliers, severely limiting his options later on and helping to force the main attack into the tunnels for the second one. Nice.

[The Old Hack]

In his speech to a fairly sizeable assemblage of allies, Ansom refers to them as "courageous and competent warlords". It's reasonable to assume that such a large force would have a fair number of warlords (though most of them would presumably be fairly low-level).

Come to think of it, it would seem reasonable that each ally show with at least one warlord, possibly two. However, that raises the question of whether these warlords are actually out there with the striking forces or if they are sitting around Ansom's table, still celebrating the recent 'victories.' What is more, even if there are warlords out there, they may be expecting to meet only wounded dwagons, not fresh ones.

[iabervon]

What is more, Ansom *cannot* bring his full force to bear on the dwagons due to the forest cover. His own flyers (absent for the moment, and possibly not all having Move enough to reach the party platter), his Woodsy Elves and his (forest) Gumps are the only ones capable of attacking. Poor poor Woodsy Elves if Ansom uses them to spearhead his counterattack...

Why would Ansom use forest capable units to chase the dwagons? He doesn't know they're in heavy forest, and he doesn't have the direct communication with units in the field to find out. Let's just hope for his sake that either non-forest-capable units can't move into enemy heavy forest hexes at all, or that he give orders that the unit AI handles well, or he'd be feeding the marbit horde to the first line of dwagons while causing no damage at all. (And Stanley wouldn't have thought to save enough movement to get the dwagons to a hex with favorable terrain, even aside from the wall of fresh units.)

[Radar]

Come to think of it, it would seem reasonable that each ally show with at least one warlord, possibly two. However, that raises the question of whether these warlords are actually out there with the striking forces or if they are sitting around Ansom's table, still celebrating the recent 'victories.' What is more, even if there are warlords out there, they may be expecting to meet only wounded dwagons, not fresh ones.

Thus the warlords would attack encountered dwagons anyway. Basing on Ansom's anger i would persume, that the striking forces will get an order to kill on sight - with devasteting effect.

[The Old Hack]

Why would Ansom use forest capable units to chase the dwagons?

Even angry, Ansom is still a capable if unimaginative warlord. He may not know precisely where the dwagons are, but he presumably does have a map or at least the ability to recognise a forest when he sees one. It would be logical to order the Gumps and the Woodsy Elves to spearhead any force advancing through forest and then fall back to the main group upon leaving it. If for no other reason than presumably forest-capable units get bonuses fighting in forest even against non-fliers...



EDIT: I apparently double posted the initial message in this thread. My mistake, it took such a long time to reach the server so I hit the Stop button and attempted to repost. The first try must have gotten through anyway. My apologies.

[Mystyco]

It would be logical to order the Gumps and the Woodsy Elves to spearhead any force advancing through forest and then fall back to the main group upon leaving it. If for no other reason than presumably forest-capable units get bonuses fighting in forest even against non-fliers...

He doesn't know if teh dwagons are actually in an heavy forest hex...heck, he doesn't know even where are they are after that wrecking attack.

probably he would/should try to advance en mass trying to break trough that dwagon block. sending the only units who could croak dwagons in heavy forest is not a good move, as they don't know:
A) how many dwagons are there
B) if they have meelee reinforce
C) if that is not a trap to distract them while they get "hit&run" from the back (that could easily happen)


bha, ansom is in great trouble :P

[Flakey]

I think Ansom's course is obvious, especially when Vinny is right next to him, to make sure he does not. Since this is turn based and not real time. He does not have to move his column anywhere until after Vinny uses his bats to scout around. Given thier 22 move and instant reporting capabilities they perfect for it.

Leaves him with several options.

1). Bats do not find anything, Column moves towards Gobwin knob, and reintergrates the fliers and column to stop Parson doing the same next turn.

2). Bats find them but they too far for the infantry and fliers to reach. Same result as option 1.

3). Bats find them, but only in reach of a small amount of specialist (wood fighting) infantry. same result as option 1.

4). Bats find them and in range of specialist (wood fighting) infantry and some fliers. Probably will attack, knowing numerically he will lose, but will kill some dragons.

5). Bats find them and in range of specialist (wood fighting) infantry and all fliers. Parsons has mucked up and lost the game as Ansom trashes the dragons.


So unless Parson made a mistake, I doubt he will go after the dragons. Also the dragons have to be to one side of the route of march. It is suicide for Parson to have it on the route. He could be hit be the infantry, but he would definately be hit be all the fliers, and without Ansom there, with the fliers, its not worth the losses he will take to engage them. It is why he called off the ambush in the first place. Nothing has changed in that.

[slb]

4). Bats find them and in range of infantry and some fliers. Probably will attack, knowing numerically he will lose, but will kill some dragons.
5). Bats find them and in range of infantry and all fliers. Parsons has mucked up and lost the game as Ansom trashes the dragons.

You're wrong on these options, remember that except gumps and woodsy elves infantry cannot attack flying units (dwagons) on a heavy forest hex.

I also presume that Parson put his plater of dwagons out of reach of the fast flyers who went rescuing Jilian.

Leaving only the option for Ansom to waste his few available forest and flying unit left with the column on the B-dwagons.

My guess for the things following "the opener" is that Ansom having destroyed all the sieges has used the moves remaining to croak many Marbits to further cripple the efficiency of Ansom assault on his only option left against the city.

[Mystyco]

remember, unless if scouted, ansom still don't know if the dwagons are at range...he may assume that dwagons already returned to the stronghold.

for now, sending in woody and other forest-capable is just a suicide and would lead to nothing (remember, when ansom lost them, dwagons are invulnerable in heavy forest)

it is however a good thing to do, send in wood-capable in high forest to take out dwagons or surrond them.

remember, stacks of 8 and he got only 3-4 warlord, means if they get forest surronded dwagons are trapped inside and can't move without engaging (4*8 = 32 on 46 dwagons capable of fast retreat without engaging due to warlord stack command)

it can however lead ansom to defeat, as he should get most of his units to block the dwagons, wich could even mass-engage vs an hex and get throught there...man, that's funny

[Flakey]

You're wrong on these options, remember that except gumps and woodsy elves infantry cannot attack flying units (dwagons) on a heavy forest hex.

I got fed up with rewriting "specialist (wood fighting) infantry" so I just put infantry down. Have corrected it just incase any one else says about it.

[MedPig]

I've looked a bit at Parson's plans and am beginning to see why he gloated so when he realised Ansom had to cope with heavy fog of war. It all comes down to this line from Klog 4:

Stacks without a leader are forced to autoattack when in contact with units from non-allied capitals.

Suddenly, the dwagon party platter completely changes its nature. It is no mere stationary defense, it is a death trap for any unit that comes into contact with it.

Better yet, Parson doesn't have to deal with the "Fog Of War", so he has the full benefit of C3I (Command, Control, Communications and Intelligence), whereas Ansom has to guess, based on Vinny's bats, and whatever comes back by hat.

If I were Parson, I'd be further whittling down his Command nodes, taking out the bats, as they are found, and along the way, going after units that could conceivably pose a threat at the walls. Engineering units, anyone who looks like they might know how to use a shovel, for instance. If he has good enough Intel to determine individual players, then Vinny, Webinar and Jillian all need to make sure their Insurance is paid up...

If all that's left are a bunch of Granola-crunching tree-huggers (Elves), then Ansom is essentially left with a feeling that while he keeps winning on paper, he won't be getting invited to play in the All-Star Game. Depending on his grasp of the rules and game mechanics, he might even know WHY he lost, since he keeps 'winning'...

Along the way, if any forest elves wander into the party platter, I imagine we'll see a repeat of the now-famous "OMGWTFBBQ"...

[Radar]

Better yet, Parson doesn't have to deal with the "Fog Of War", so he has the full benefit of C3I (Command, Control, Communications and Intelligence), whereas Ansom has to guess, based on Vinny's bats, and whatever comes back by hat.

If I were Parson, I'd be further whittling down his Command nodes, taking out the bats, as they are found, and along the way, going after units that could conceivably pose a threat at the walls. Engineering units, anyone who looks like they might know how to use a shovel, for instance. If he has good enough Intel to determine individual players, then Vinny, Webinar and Jillian all need to make sure their Insurance is paid up...

If all that's left are a bunch of Granola-crunching tree-huggers (Elves), then Ansom is essentially left with a feeling that while he keeps winning on paper, he won't be getting invited to play in the All-Star Game. Depending on his grasp of the rules and game mechanics, he might even know WHY he lost, since he keeps 'winning'...

Along the way, if any forest elves wander into the party platter, I imagine we'll see a repeat of the now-famous "OMGWTFBBQ"...

Good point about the bats. They are Ansom's most efficient scouting units (but significantly slower then for example gwiffons and let alone dwagons) and are easy to kill. After averting the threat of instant siege (by croaking wall-crushing units), it would be good to make Ansom as blind as possible. Apart from the bats, i would go for gwiffons - they are persumably the fastest flyers that Ansom has (angels can be faster, but we don't know it and fighting them directly would cause too much casulties).

[ReccaSquirrel]

There is also the assumption that whatever comes next after the Opener is connected to the dwagons. There could very well be another surprise in store for, say, the tunnels. Without seige units, entering the city will be extremely difficult. He may have found a crap golem exploit. :)

[VariaVespasa]

While its possible that phase 2 involves an attack on the platter I dont think so. Its been widely suggested that that would be a mistake on Ansoms part and while that may be true and would yield nice returns, frankly, it is itself a mistake to base your primary plan on the enemy making a specific future mistake. I dont get the impression that what Parson has in mind relies on an enemy mistake that they have not yet made. I'm almost certain that what he has in mind involves a mistake they have already made, or, for some reason, cannot avoid making now, if his plan involves an enemy mistake at all. If platter defense is what he has in mind for the follow-up then there is something about the setup that we are currently unaware of that makes an attack on the platter virtually inevitable. If so, as far as I am aware, while the B dwagons may not have had enough move to be part of the attack, they DO still have some left and can therefore shuffle around inside the platter to retreat to the back side of the platter and bring fresh B dwagons to the front side as needed, and Parson has his warlords placed accordingly to permit this I'm sure.

Like everyone else, I'm awaiting the revalation of phase 2 eagerly. :)

[Moik]

Spoiler

Show

Parson is going to use his Eyebook to...

Spoiler

Show

hack the Arkendish to...

Spoiler

Show

fire the Orbital Laser to...

Spoiler

Show

plough an escape path through the Caldera to...

Spoiler

Show

Charlie's Ice Base to...

Spoiler

Show

sell his CalcuArmBand in order to...

Spoiler

Show

retire to the Pimp Life surrounded by Archons

[cheese_sdc]

I'm going to bet that the "B group" dragons only have a secondary mission of defense. I think that because they are slower, Parson needed to stage them closer to their (as of now) unknown objective. The "A group" strike on the siege units had a secondary (or even tertiary) objective to distract Ansom from a further threat.

So 1st step - B Group deploys in woods with a primary target for next turn and a secondary mission of screening the A group after their strike.

2nd step - A group - hits the column and retreats behind the B group.

If Ansom goes after the A group he runs into a large stack of fresh dragon (sucks for Ansom). If he doesn't, then the B group is in position to further Parson's ultimate plan for world domination *insert evil laugh*.

[jindra34]

Spoiler

Show

Parson is going to use his Eyebook to...

Spoiler

Show

hack the Arkendish to...

Spoiler

Show

fire the Orbital Laser to...

Spoiler

Show

plough an escape path through the Caldera to...

Spoiler

Show

Charlie's Ice Base to...

Spoiler

Show

sell his CalcuArmBand in order to...

Spoiler

Show

retire to the Pimp Life surrounded by Archons

OK... oddest theory yet...

[Moik]

Y'know.

Just puttin' myself in his shoes.

What would I do, etc.

[jindra34]

Y'know.

Just puttin' myself in his shoes.

What would I do, etc.

and making some dozen assumptions...

[Ganurath]

Y'know.

Just puttin' myself in his shoes.

What would I do, etc.

If Stanlie couldn't kill you with a thought like he can Parson, that is.

Watch, ladies and gentlemen, as Ansom orders fliers and forest-capables within movement range to sweep the forest for the weakened dwagons, only to be consumed by smoke and lightning!

[Moik]

and making some dozen assumptions...

Six! There's six! That's WELL within quota!

[jindra34]

Six! There's six! That's WELL within quota!

And who might i ask gave you the quota?

[PirateMonk]

While its possible that phase 2 involves an attack on the platter I dont think so. Its been widely suggested that that would be a mistake on Ansoms part and while that may be true and would yield nice returns, frankly, it is itself a mistake to base your primary plan on the enemy making a specific future mistake. I dont get the impression that what Parson has in mind relies on an enemy mistake that they have not yet made. I'm almost certain that what he has in mind involves a mistake they have already made, or, for some reason, cannot avoid making now, if his plan involves an enemy mistake at all. If platter defense is what he has in mind for the follow-up then there is something about the setup that we are currently unaware of that makes an attack on the platter virtually inevitable. If so, as far as I am aware, while the B dwagons may not have had enough move to be part of the attack, they DO still have some left and can therefore shuffle around inside the platter to retreat to the back side of the platter and bring fresh B dwagons to the front side as needed, and Parson has his warlords placed accordingly to permit this I'm sure.

Like everyone else, I'm awaiting the revalation of phase 2 eagerly. :)

Two things:

1) It makes perfect logical and psychological sense for Ansom to try to croak the wounded A-dwagons. This doesn't mean that he'll do it, but it makes it highly likely.

2) Parson's plan probably doesn't depend on it; it will just make things go faster. If they don't take the bait, he'll have to croak the fliers and forest-capables some other turn.

[Moik]

Federal Government.

Replenish cod stocks, etc.

[jindra34]

Federal Government.

Replenish cod stocks, etc.

No wonder they always gave high assumption Quotas... most groups give under 1...

[Moik]

It's mostly just the equalization program. Assumption transfers and what not. The government is just trying to make a parity in service availabilty.

[abb3w]

Suddenly, the dwagon party platter completely changes its nature. It is no mere stationary defense, it is a death trap for any unit that comes into contact with it.

Seeing the latest comic, a dangerous though wanders through my mind. There are two hexes from the closest approach to the trail to the core hex. Can the surrounding dwagons move in to reinforce the core hex? At a cost of three dwagons (lost defending the "weak spot"), Parson kills all of the units able to attack flyers over forest.

Boop. If my computer's game AI pulled a trick like that on me, I'd reboot the booping thing and load from a savepoint.

[JazzManJim]

Seeing the latest comic, a dangerous though wanders through my mind. There are two hexes from the closest approach to the trail to the core hex. Can the surrounding dwagons move in to reinforce the core hex? At a cost of three dwagons (lost defending the "weak spot"), Parson kills all of the units able to attack flyers over forest.

Boop. If my computer's game AI pulled a trick like that on me, I'd reboot the booping thing and load from a savepoint.

Parson won't be able to move his units since it's not his turn. Basically, where you units are when you end your turn is where they lay for the next guy's turn.

Here's something to ponder. Looking at panel 6 of the new comic, there seems to be more heavy forest going back into where Ansom's fog prevents them from seeing. I don't think that Parson had to leave the Party Platter so close to the column. He could have moved it closer to GK, but still in heavy forest. Yet he didn't.