Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed

[dauvis]

I was sort of expecting the Juggle elf advantage to be that their leadership is less centralized, so CharlesComm wouldn't be able to take them over the way he did with other natural allies.

I like this better, though.

He might be able to. I get the impression that you can have gobwins or elves as natural allies but not both.

[Kornaki]

He might be able to. I get the impression that you can have gobwins or elves as natural allies but not both.

We have been told this several times in the comic

[Mando Knight]

He might be able to. I get the impression that you can have gobwins or elves as natural allies but not both.

Charlie's a Carnie with an attuned Arkentool, though. There's no telling what he could do to bend those rules.

[eschmenk]

IMO, the Juggles would automatically hate Charlie's corporate image and the fact that he plans everything out. The Juggles weren't very interested in getting money from Stanley, so it would probably be very difficult for Charlie to buy their loyalty. Even Stanley had to settle for limited control over the tribe, despite the facts that he could rock out and that he was the enemy of the royal sides. (Except for the Juggles that were promoted to knights, Stanley can only set broad goals, which he gives to Chief J and Shaggy.) Given that, there seems to be less of a chance that Charlie could turn the Juggles' loyalty away from Stanley toward himself. Charlie, being Charlie, might find a way, but it wouldn't be easy.

[halfeye]

Given that, there seems to be less of a chance that Charlie could turn the Juggles' loyalty away from Stanley toward himself. Charlie, being Charlie, might find a way, but it wouldn't be easy.

He would need a pawn who isn't royal. He probably has dozens, Ivan and Jojo to name two.

[-D-]

For a moment, I thought there was a new comic. Rob's really pushing these comics fast

[eschmenk]

He might be able to. I get the impression that you can have gobwins or elves as natural allies but not both.

I don't think there is any actual rule. I think it's just that elves and gobwins naturally hate each other. Charlie could get around that by not letting the elves know about the gobwins. I doubt that most Archons know about them, either. I suspect that Charlie is hiding the gobwins underground. Given Ivan's ability to tunnel through bedrock, there might be armies of gobwins deep underneath CC or maybe Spacerock. Anyway, I don't think the fact that Charlie has gobwins would be a problem that he couldn't work around. I think the other issues I raised would be bigger problems.

He would need a pawn who isn't royal. He probably has dozens, Ivan and Jojo to name two.

Those aren't sides. They could bribe the elves to be independent or to join a third side, although the third side would have to be compatible with the Juggles.

Speaking of Jojo, I suspect that the Dark Carnival will become plot relevant at some point.

[-D-]

Speaking of Jojo, I suspect that the Dark Carnival will become plot relevant at some point.

Dark Carnival?

[eschmenk]

Dark Carnival?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_C...e_Clown_Posse)

That's more about carnymancy in general than Jojo specifically. It ties in with the Juggle Elves, too. It could be that the Juggle elves can warp Fate just like Charlie can, or maybe they will decide that Jojo is a Titan, or who knows what? It seems like it could easily become some sort of plot device, though.

[SZbNAhL]

Dark Carnival is apparently a recurring theme in Insane Clown Posse albums as some kind of afterlife.

Edit: Nevermind, just look at the above link.

[eschmenk]

Come to think of it, if the Juggle Elves believe in the Dark Carnival, that might make the Thinkamancers very hostile to them and strain the relationship between the Thinkamancers and GK.

[Killer Angel]

Weeping Charlie doesn't get too much sympathies from me...

[The Glyphstone]

Nor does Charlie Sheen.

[Kantaki]

Weeping Charlie doesn't get too much sympathies from me...

Charlie and getting sympathy? Not in this life.
Interesting how bad off he really is without the dish.
Lets hope his image doesn't suffer too much from this. It would be a shame if Parson would defeat him indirectly.

I wonder why he considers Parson being a barbarian as bad as being a ruler. The latter I can understand, but wouldn't the former make Parson les dangerous?

[The Glyphstone]

Charlie and getting sympathy? Not in this life.
Interesting how bad off he really is without the dish.
Lets hope his image doesn't suffer too much from this. It would be a shame if Parson would defeat him indirectly.

I wonder why he considers Parson being a barbarian as bad as being a ruler. The latter I can understand, but wouldn't the former make Parson les dangerous?

It makes him a wild card, able to offer his services, and that of his OP Bracer, to any side. Would wreck Charlie's business model to have Parson running around loose.

[eschmenk]

It makes him a wild card, able to offer his services, and that of his OP Bracer, to any side. Would wreck Charlie's business model to have Parson running around loose.

Yes. Having Stanley as his ruler often limits what Parson can do against Charlie. There is a chance that Stanley might even not reappoint Parson as Chief Warlord.

Did we have any background on Bonnie? I'm wondering why she was a mistake. It sounded as if Charlie already regarded her that way before the battle.

[Calemyr]

Yes. Having Stanley as his ruler often limits what Parson can do against Charlie. There is a chance that Stanley might even not reappoint Parson as Chief Warlord.

Exactly why he's worried now. Parson could single-handedly turn Transylvito, a severely weakened side with minor loyalty to Charlie and a dislike for Stanley, into a powerful side with loyalty to Stanley. All by fixing the little insurrection that's brewing and ongoing fights with neighbors. I don't know how Vinnie would side in that case. Hate the killers or just be happy to have Ansom on his side again?

Did we have any background on Bonnie? I'm wondering why she was a mistake. It sounded as if Charlie already regarded her that way before the battle.

This was completely from his perspective, I think, with no consideration for what we know and don't know. This is what Charlie thought of his archons. Lillith was always a spitfire, and decryption did nothing to resolve that. Bonnie wasn't perfect, yet, but Charlie thought she could be and now she's in Parson's camp.

The key thing there is that Charlie knows his Archons. He's not Stanley, who barely knows his warlords by name, but struggles to because it impresses people. Charlie cares. Each archon is a unique and valuable entity to him, rather than just a fistful of stats. He doesn't just know them by name, but the name is accompanied by a little prose detailing what the archon means to him. And he will readily lie to them if it keeps them by his side.

[eschmenk]

Bonnie wasn't perfect, yet, but Charlie thought she could be and now she's in Parson's camp.

I disagree. Charlie: "And Bonnie, his misreckoning, the mistake he could not bear to discard..." That's pretty clearly calling her a "mistake." I think he thinks that he somehow screwed up while developing/carnying her personality. The thing to do would have been to abandon her (or maybe even disband her), but he couldn't bear to do it. (But yes, now she's in Parson's camp, additionally.)

Charlie cares. Each archon is a unique and valuable entity to him, rather than just a fistful of stats.

He should. He invested a lot of time and effort into developing them. At least those he thought had promise. Basically, Charlie mentored them and tried to develop them. I think it's patterned after the executive development career paths that some big corporations have.

I have a feeling that doesn't apply to all 600 Archons, though. It's hard to pay that level of attention to so many. If you read Tondelayo's story, it's obvious why she would have seemed to have unusual potential to Charlie even at level 1, so Charlie had probably been paying more attention to her development than to others.

[Zalabim]

So the Arkendish can monitor all kind of thinkamancy channels, including Ruler's orders. When it was fully powered, it could also record them to playback later. Right now he's limited to spying in real time. That's an amazing level of knowledge to have had.

[Anteros]

Weeping Charlie doesn't get too much sympathies from me...

He's doesn't garner any less than anyone else from me. I know he's a terrible person and unlikable, but that applies to basically every major character in the comic.

[ace rooster]

So the Arkendish can monitor all kind of thinkamancy channels, including Ruler's orders. When it was fully powered, it could also record them to playback later. Right now he's limited to spying in real time. That's an amazing level of knowledge to have had.

The playback functionality might not have been native to the dish, instead being part of the network of items attached to it. If nothing else, the dish is still functioning.

This update also reveals how much the Great Minds had managed to keep from him. The collidiscope may have been worth it simply to hide Parson. Dubious; left unsealed .

It will be interesting to see how Charlie does now that he has suffered a major setback. It seems like this is the first one he has suffered in a very long time. He always calculated that Parson was a serious threat, but now I think he actually believes it.

[-D-]

He's doesn't garner any less than anyone else from me. I know he's a terrible person and unlikable, but that applies to basically every major character in the comic.

Not even Parson?

To be honest I only really like Jack and Lilith somewhat. Though again I kinda hate Lilith because I suspect she lives/dies by what fans want.

[MReav]

Not even Parson?

Dude often commits what would be considered war crimes.

[-D-]

Dude often commits what would be considered war crimes.

It was self defense

EDIT: You know what they say, "Can't make an Omelette, without committing a genocide" or was it "Can't make an Omelette, without ruthlessly crushing your enemies beneath your mighty Dwagon".

[DataNinja]

EDIT: You know what they say, "Can't make an Omelette, without committing a genocide" or was it "Can't make an Omelette, without ruthlessly crushing your enemies beneath your mighty Dwagon".

I thought it was "can't make an omelette without doing experiments with immortality".

[MReav]

EDIT: You know what they say, "Can't make an Omelette, without committing a genocide" or was it "Can't make an Omelette, without ruthlessly crushing your enemies beneath your mighty Dwagon".

I don't even like omelettes! They make me gassy!

[Anteros]

Not even Parson?

To be honest I only really like Jack and Lilith somewhat. Though again I kinda hate Lilith because I suspect she lives/dies by what fans want.

I can actually list the characters I think are likable since it's so short. Sizemore, Jack, Vinnie, Tramennis and pre-decrypted Ansom. I like Stanley too since his recent growth.

[Razade]

Dude often commits what would be considered war crimes.

In a story about war where there are no such things as War Crimes. And he moralizes about them rather often.

[MReav]

In a story about war where there are no such things as War Crimes. And he moralizes about them rather often.

There are at least general conventions, like not faking a surrender, not attacking during a parley, not moving through neutral territory without their permission, not assassinating the enemy ruler during a negotiation...

Parson might moralize, but in the end, if the reason so many of the other sides don't trust him is because he's demonstrably untrustworthy, then it's not exactly an unfair reaction.

[Razade]

There are at least general conventions, like not faking a surrender, not attacking during a parley, not moving through neutral territory without their permission, not assassinating the enemy ruler during a negotiation...

We haven't seen any of them down. There isn't a U.N in Erfworld to agree to such things, no League of Nations. Nobody that declares these things.

Parson might moralize, but in the end, if the reason so many of the other sides don't trust him is because he's demonstrably untrustworthy, then it's not exactly an unfair reaction.

I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that he's not committing war crimes in Erfworld. He's doing guerrilla warfare. And he's had to because until the Arkenpliars he was fighting an alliance the side had no chance of beating without him. Does it excuse him from doing it? Maybe not in our world but WAR is what Erfworld does. There's life outside of war. There are no Civilians in Erfworld. Every unit in Erfworld is for war and every unit he has killed is literally bound by an unseen force to fulfill the wishes and desires of other people who push war. Applying the morals of our world and applying the ethics and war laws of our world to Erfworld is frankly ridiculous. It's not like Parson was doing this in Stupid World, he's doing them in a world where it's expected.