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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Mad Wizard's Avatar

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    Default More Time Stop Cheese!

    Ok, so, take a level 17 cleric. Only things that matter are feats and domains. You need to have persist spell, divine metamagic (persist spell), and maybe a couple extra turnings. You also need the Trickery domain. So, as your ninth level domain spell, prepare time stop. Use divine metamagic to cast a persisted time stop. You now have 24 hours to do whatever you want. You can even rest during this time, re-prepare time stop again, ready an action in the last round of it, and re-cast it again. You can set up spells to kill a monster as soon as the time stop ends, and gain as much XP as you want through this.

    Given time, this can probably even kill pun-pun! You just get yourself to epic level, create an epic spell that does area of affect force damage, and use this on him over and over. You can SLOWLY take him down, and theoretically, by readying an action, never let him do anything.
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    Zeful's Avatar

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    Default Re: More Time Stop Cheese!

    Or you can just shoot lots of magic arrows at pun-pun, some of them have to get through.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Vaniel's Avatar

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    Default Re: More Time Stop Cheese!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Wizard View Post
    Ok, so, take a level 17 cleric. Only things that matter are feats and domains. You need to have persist spell, divine metamagic (persist spell), and maybe a couple extra turnings. You also need the Trickery domain. So, as your ninth level domain spell, prepare time stop. Use divine metamagic to cast a persisted time stop. You now have 24 hours to do whatever you want. You can even rest during this time, re-prepare time stop again, ready an action in the last round of it, and re-cast it again. You can set up spells to kill a monster as soon as the time stop ends, and gain as much XP as you want through this.

    Given time, this can probably even kill pun-pun! You just get yourself to epic level, create an epic spell that does area of affect force damage, and use this on him over and over. You can SLOWLY take him down, and theoretically, by readying an action, never let him do anything.
    W0w, brilliant! Something I surely, and most people here, did not know already, and probably have found better and greater cheese!

    If you plan on killing Pun-Pun, he will have already gone in time and killed your parents. Or, he would have also done the same thing.

    Just between you and me, pun-pun has Ni everywhere, even EPIC you won't be able to touch him, and even if you do, he'll counter attack with Destroy Soul no save attack of massive d00m.

    Good try, though you have 0% of success.

    /Vaniel

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    Default Re: More Time Stop Cheese!

    From the Official 3.0 FAQ:

    Assuming you are high enough level to cast a persistent
    time stop spell, could you use the virtual 24 hours the spell
    lasts to rest and recover your spells?

    You can’t make time stop persistent. (Its duration is
    effectively instantaneous for purposes of the Persistent Spell
    feat.)
    I don't think there are any relevant 3.5 changes that would invalidate the answer. There's not much of a rules justification though, so depending on how you see the FAQ the RAW could still allow it.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: More Time Stop Cheese!

    That same phrase occurs in the 3.5 RAW. Sorry, but this is one kind of abuse Wizards went out of their way to quash, perhaps because it's so obvious.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Mad Wizard's Avatar

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    Default Re: More Time Stop Cheese!

    Hmm. RAW, Time Stop's duration is 1d4+1 rounds, but that is apparent time... I have read that the FAQ isn't really part of the rules, and that it has made mistakes, but I dunno. And yeah, killing pun-pun is probably wishful thinking .
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  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Jack_Simth's Avatar

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    Default Re: More Time Stop Cheese!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Wizard View Post
    Ok, so, take a level 17 cleric. Only things that matter are feats and domains. You need to have persist spell, divine metamagic (persist spell), and maybe a couple extra turnings. You also need the Trickery domain. So, as your ninth level domain spell, prepare time stop. Use divine metamagic to cast a persisted time stop. You now have 24 hours to do whatever you want. You can even rest during this time, re-prepare time stop again, ready an action in the last round of it, and re-cast it again. You can set up spells to kill a monster as soon as the time stop ends, and gain as much XP as you want through this.

    Given time, this can probably even kill pun-pun! You just get yourself to epic level, create an epic spell that does area of affect force damage, and use this on him over and over. You can SLOWLY take him down, and theoretically, by readying an action, never let him do anything.
    Doesn't work, RAW.

    See, Clerics prepare spells at a particular time of day. Even pulling off a 24 hour time stop... time isn't passing. That time of day doesn't come around in your 24 hour break. You can't prepare another Time Stop, and so you run out.

    Now, if you've got a Wizard/Incantatrix build, on the other hand....
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: More Time Stop Cheese!

    Quote Originally Posted by Iku Rex View Post
    From the Official 3.0 FAQ:



    I don't think there are any relevant 3.5 changes that would invalidate the answer. There's not much of a rules justification though, so depending on how you see the FAQ the RAW could still allow it.
    That's a *particularly* weaselly cop-out.

    [Edit] Sorry, that sounds a bit ambiguous, I mean "that quote in the FAQ is a particularly weaselly cop-out on behalf of Wizards", not "that post is a weaselly cop-out as a response to this thread."
    Last edited by Dan_Hemmens; 2007-06-19 at 04:47 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: More Time Stop Cheese!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_Hemmens View Post
    That's a *particularly* weaselly cop-out.

    [Edit] Sorry, that sounds a bit ambiguous, I mean "that quote in the FAQ is a particularly weaselly cop-out on behalf of Wizards", not "that post is a weaselly cop-out as a response to this thread."
    I agree. What they really should have done is issue errata to change Time Stop from "Duration: 1d4+1 rounds" to "Duration: Instantaneous" and "Effect: 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time".
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: More Time Stop Cheese!

    They could just change the wording of Time Stop to:
    Duration: instantaneous (1d4+1 rounds of apparent time)

    ...instead of makeing the FAQ entry ;)

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