Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. V: You Joined the Cavalry.

[Millstone85]

Does she? Every "AI" we have seen was a brain scan of a human, or created by Fitzclife.

GW

If the Framework is as ridiculous as its description so far, Aida made about 7.5 billion AIs.

[Giggling Ghast]

Interesting factoid: Anton Ivanov (the Superior) had a counterpart in the actual Marvel comics as the sixth character to hold the title of Red Guardian, a Russian superhero. He turned out to be an LMD and was decapitated. His living head was put in storage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Guardian

[LaZodiac]

Okay, you can't convince me AIDA couldn't give them some basic programming. It's weird enough Fitz should have done it on the spot, but Aida seems quite good enough at making AIs by now she could have given them some base capabilities before mass producing them. Sorry, I can't take it as anything other than a poor plot device to give Daisy the reveal.

They actually mention that they CAN do that, yeah, but it'll take a bit and they were hoping to get Daisy's brain to just map it out properly. When they realized they needed to put the basic brains in Fitz was busy fixing himself.

Interesting factoid: Anton Ivanov (the Superior) had a counterpart in the actual Marvel comics as the sixth character to hold the title of Red Guardian, a Russian superhero. He turned out to be an LMD and was decapitated. His living head was put in storage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Guardian

Nice, was wondering if he was a character or not. That's pretty cool!

[Kato]

Does she? Every "AI" we have seen was a brain scan of a human, or created by Fitzclife.

GW

Well, AIDA herself is an AI... and she/Radcliffe tweaked all the AIs to do what they wanted them to. Admittedly, that doesn't exactly prove, AIDA can do it (excluding the AIs in the framework) but it suggest she can do something to make them more than mannequins. Not in minutes but in preparation for this operation.

[Palanan]

Okay, where’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.?

Last week at least made an awful sort of sense. But tonight there’s a new show premiering in the time slot. What’s up with that? Is AoS ever coming back?

[huttj509]

Okay, where’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.?

Last week at least made an awful sort of sense. But tonight there’s a new show premiering in the time slot. What’s up with that? Is AoS ever coming back?

April. They're in a hiatus for a couple month or so.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, part of it is a not so clever plan to avoid competing with CBB.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by huttj509
April. They're in a hiatus for a couple month or so.

Thanks.



Crud. I guess Tuesdays are movie nights now.

Originally Posted by Rogar D.
Yeah, part of it is a not so clever plan to avoid competing with CBB.

What’s CBB?

[Fishybugs]

I don't know what he intended by it, but it's probably College Basketball....it's March Madness!

[Spacewolf]

You know rather than this Russian guy we have as the "Pinnacle" of Humanity it would have been more interesting if they had used Crossbones from the Captain films since they don't seem to be doing much with him there, he's a know threat who would have survived two dangerous situations and could go toe to toe with Cap and is completely human as far as we know. (Not sure how well known the actor is and how expensive he'd be though.)

[Dragonexx]

Well he's a pile of ashes drifting on the wind now... Not sure how much you can do with that.

[Giggling Ghast]

Just a reminder that Agents of SHIELD HYDRA returns tonight. Hail HYDRA!

[Yana]

Fingers crossed that I'm right about Ward.

[LaZodiac]

Just a reminder that Agents of SHIELD HYDRA returns tonight. Hail HYDRA!

Thank god for you Ghast cause I thought it was next week.

[Douglas]

Random idea I just had, would it be an interesting plot twist if the Framework proves so realistic that Daisy and Jemma start doubting their own memories about it?

On an unrelated note, is there any (legal, presumably paid) streaming service that actually gets Agents of Shield simultaneous with the TV broadcast? Hulu gets it a day later last I checked, and Netflix doesn't even have season 4 at all.

[LaZodiac]

Sadly, I have no idea on what legal sites you can use to stream the show.

Also baaaagh I missed the first 15 minutes of the show can anyone tell me what explicitly happened before

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"Jema goes to see Coulson at the school"

scene?

[Dilvish]

That was a good episode.

[Giggling Ghast]

Sadly, I have no idea on what legal sites you can use to stream the show.

Also baaaagh I missed the first 15 minutes of the show can anyone tell me what explicitly happened before

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"Jema goes to see Coulson at the school"

scene?

You missed like a half-hour.

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Daisy finds Ward in her bed and freaks out a little. She and Ward go to HYDRA headquarters. Daisy watches some HYDRA agents delivering a beatdown to an Inhuman. She determines Lincoln is dead from HYDRA's files and then encounters May. She then takes part in an interrogation of Vijay Nadeer. Vijay makes a failed escape attempt, and then Fitz - who is called the Doctor by his subordinates - takes him for experimentation.

Jemma wakes up in a mass grave where the SHIELD Academy used to be. (She figures she was murdered by HYDRA.) She catches a ride, then ditches at one of the HYDRA checkpoints. She later knocks out two agents and steals their car.

Coulson preaches the wonders of HYDRA to his classroom and lets some agents take one of his students.

On a non-spoilery note, tonight's episode is called "What If ..." This is a reference to the What If comics Marvel used to publish.

[Douglas]

Well, that was a nice batch of twists.

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Not only did fake-Ward turn out to be genuinely good, he's the full reversal as a good guy under cover as a bad guy. I wonder how much Daisy and Jemma are going to tell him. Do they dare fill him on the full "this world is a virtual reality" story?

The change to the Bahrain Incident for May resulting in a new (and much worse) Cambridge Incident is a masterful touch for a plausible way Hydra could have gained enough propaganda material to sway a lot of the public, and for May to be convinced to join them. In reality she regrets killing the child, in the Framework she regrets even more that she didn't kill the child and thus allowed a much greater massacre.

Coulson's Tahiti experience helping with the first breakthrough on breaking the brainwashing makes so much sense.

Mack's the odd one out, as just a guy at home with his family and no ties to Hydra, it seems. Or are they just waiting for the next episode to show how he's an enforcer, or something?

Of course the Director is Aida. And she's personally supplanted Jemma as Fitz's love interest. I really wasn't expecting that one, but it makes a lot of sense as a way to motivate Fitz (and his great intelligence) to give his best help.

I wonder what Radcliffe's Framework life is like.

[LaZodiac]

Thanks for the recap on those early moments guys.

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This episode RULED by the way. Like, jeez.

Also, absolutely nooo subtly on the nazi stuff and I LOVED it.

[Giggling Ghast]

There's a certain amount of irony in HYDRA being dedicated to oppressing Inhumans, considering their original purpose.

We haven't seen Mack or Mace yet. But I did read an article that revealed Mace's life in the Framework.

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Apparently, he's a superhero called The Patriot.

http://comicbook.com/2017/04/02/agen...triot-costume/

[Red Fel]

This... Was not the best episode.

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Okay. So, I get the need for an occasional infodump episode. Particularly where, as here, they dive headfirst into the Matrix. (And don't get me started on that as the gimmick for the next block. "What should we do?" "Inhumans!" "Great, next?" "Ooh, how about Ghost Rider?" "Awesome, next?" "Um, LMDs?" "Great, gimme another one!" "Matrix ripoff!" "... You're fired.")

So they have one episode to build an entire world, and they do so with a total lack of subtlety or nuance. In fact, they outright explain it once Daisy and Simmons meet up - "So, basically, the Framework gave everyone everything they wanted. May saved the little girl, who went rogue and started an Inhuman panic, so Hydra took over; Coulson never joined SHIELD, and became a teacher; Fitz never met you, and now he's evil! Gasp, getting your fondest wishes is a Monkey's Paw!"

Also, pretty sure what Fitz actually wished for is a world in which he got his horrible father's respect instead of his contempt, as was hinted at for a total of about two episodes recently. And apparently in order to get the respect of a horrible abusive father you have to be a horrible person.

Also also, wondering if they're saving as a twist that the Aida in the Framework is actually Not!Aida, the dying woman on whom Aida was based. Would be a twist, except not.

Also also also, what a shock, Ward is a mole for an underground group - "in the shadows" if you will - within the world-policing organization. Would never have seen that coming.

All that said, some subjective points. First, I hate dystopian crapsack settings unless it's established very promptly that the protagonists actually have some high notes. Even if it's just catching drinks with friends after plotting revolution. If everything is down notes, I get turned off very quickly.

Know what else turns me off? Contrivance. "Your brain was altered before, you must remember!" Coulson's brain-alteration was more or less fixed, remember? His compulsion vanished. And also, "How was Tahiti?" "It sucked." Suddenly bringing that up and saying that it allows him to remember is just so contrived. Honestly, I'm not sure how they were going to wake up each member of the team, but that? That just felt cheap. Really cheap.

I'm hoping that this arc will be brief, and that the story will improve, because this episode right here had three things I dislike - slow speed, infodump, and contrivance. Not a good combination. No wit, no heart, no quippiness, just waiting for something to happen.

[Giggling Ghast]

Fingers crossed that I'm right about Ward.

well whadda you know

On a side note, Framework Aida is effectively serving as Madame Hydra. Note the green wardrobe.

[huttj509]

well whadda you know

On a side note, Framework Aida is effectively serving as Madame Hydra. Note the green wardrobe.

Newspaper articles visible in screenshots refer to Madame Hydra, as do interviews. There's no 'effectively,' she is Madame Hydra.

http://imgur.com/a/Mp6ou

Last one's a bit fuzzy, but, um, Raina will definitely not be making an appearance. Ouch.

[random11]

It's a bad version of a "what could have been" story.
The problem is that usually, in this type of story it's either presented by some supernatural force to prove a point (like angels) or a complete different universe with a minor alteration.
In both cases, it feels like it's a real version of what could have happen without some characters or events, but here, the designer of the world is an evil AI, so as a result this entire setting just feels fake.

I don't really mind about the "Tahiti" thing. The way I see it, it's just saying that since Coulson was already messed with his brain, he is partially immune to another attempt to rewrite his memory in a similar way.
A bit contrived, but i've seen a lot worse.

The point where a little girl with power made such a big change doesn't make much sense.
Maybe in a normal world, but in one that already has the avengers and their enemies? I don't see how it can be a world changing event compared to, say, the Hulk.
Then again, as I just mentioned, the creator of the world cannot be trusted to create a real "what if" simulation.
But on the other hand, the entire point of the simulation was to be real enough to keep the people trapped, so...

Bottom line, I just want this part to be over.
The real Marvel world has enough problems, no need to create a fake reality.

[Giggling Ghast]

I think it's a rather well-done "for want of nail" story, myself. Without getting into RL politics, there's clearly some parallels between HYDRA World and current affairs. Man, isn't it terrible how there used to be so many newspapers before HYDRA took over? Chaotic!

I like Mirror Dimension stories in general. They can be a lot of fun.

[Douglas]

The point where a little girl with power made such a big change doesn't make much sense.
Maybe in a normal world, but in one that already has the avengers and their enemies? I don't see how it can be a world changing event compared to, say, the Hulk.

The Hulk is a unique case, clearly an isolated incident with a specific single individual, and while he may have done a lot of property damage he didn't kill many people - and those few he did kill were adult scientists in a secret lab, and military. This little girl killed hundreds of civilians and children in public, and is part of a whole breed of people, and to top things off this separate breed calls themselves "Inhumans". It is very believable to me that the little girl would get a MUCH greater reaction from the general public.

It very likely is intentionally twisted with the course of events tweaked to better suit Aida (though I think her reason is to get more control over it, not to make it dystopian), but it's well within the bounds of plausibility for me.

[Giggling Ghast]

Does the Hulk even exist in HYDRA World? Do any of the Avengers? Perhaps Tony Stark is a corpse in Afghanistan, Captain America is still frozen in a glacier and Loki is ruling over Asgard using his brother's skull as a wine cup.

[Douglas]

Does the Hulk even exist in HYDRA World? Do any of the Avengers? Perhaps Tony Stark is a corpse in Afghanistan, Captain America is still frozen in a glacier and Loki is ruling over Asgard using his brother's skull as a wine cup.

If the Framework even bothers to simulate Asgard at all.

[random11]

The Hulk is a unique case, clearly an isolated incident with a specific single individual, and while he may have done a lot of property damage he didn't kill many people - and those few he did kill were adult scientists in a secret lab, and military. This little girl killed hundreds of civilians and children in public, and is part of a whole breed of people, and to top things off this separate breed calls themselves "Inhumans". It is very believable to me that the little girl would get a MUCH greater reaction from the general public.

It very likely is intentionally twisted with the course of events tweaked to better suit Aida (though I think her reason is to get more control over it, not to make it dystopian), but it's well within the bounds of plausibility for me.

The hulk was just an example.
SHIELD exists in the marvel universe, a place where you can spit in a random direction and probably hit an inhuman, crazy A.I. robot, beings from other planets or dimension, and not to mention other unknown entities.
So far, the series managed to more or less portrait a possible realistic response to this crazy world in terms of restricting laws and anti-whatever groups that hate mutants inhumans.
But just a few episodes ago, framing inhumans for a HUGE combined terrorist attack could have led to more restricting laws, and now they want to change this so one single attack could make the entire world change to "hail hydra"? I guess it's possible if it was a timeskip to the future, but not as a parallel option to what was already established.

Now, of course this world is not a real parallel option since it was created by the framework, but this presents two problems:
1) As a viewer, I care less about this world since I get a constant reminder it's not a real option.
2) The entire point of this virtual world was to create a version that is both reliable so the connected humans will adapt easier, and slightly different to make them less eager to fight. Putting SHIELD agents in a world ruled by Hydra does the exact opposite. I'm surprised their brains didn't explode from all the rewriting that had to be done to reach this point.