Erfworld 62 - Page 56

[barawn]

Page 39:Ansom's going to run his ground troops away from the collumn, exhaust their move, and they are not going to be able to touch the dwagons.

From Klog 6

Flying units in forest spaces can only be attacked by other flying units (note: and forest-capable units. Ansom has Woodsy Elves and Gumps. Incomplete information: it's part of this complete breakfast! Stupid, Stupid Meal)

[Scientivore]

You are correct. Actually comparing the panel on two different pc's I now realize that my work pc is showing everything as at least a shade darker than my home pc. Very odd.

As an aside to the dwagon discussion, am I the only person who finds the gwiffon Jillian is mounted on to be adorably huggable looking?

It makes sense if your work monitor is an older CRT. The phosphors gradually wear out. LCDs' colors last much better than CRTs'; they still need to be calibrated, though. There are specialized tools for monitor color management and the one that I've heard recommended for casual users (such as hobbyist digital photographers) is the Pantone Huey.

As for the other, it might just be you. The way Jillian's sprawled on it reminds me of a bored biker chick, so then the gwiffon reminds of me the GWFN-3000.

[SteveMB]

You are correct. Actually comparing the panel on two different pc's I now realize that my work pc is showing everything as at least a shade darker than my home pc. Very odd.

I noticed that my laptop screen was distinctly darker than my desktop screen when my Internet connection on the latter got munged (which is some progress toward his goal of being half as evil as Wanda -- thank you, I'll be here all week, try the chicken). The recess for Parson's watch to fit into his new Stupid Meal toy was barely visible on the former.

I suspect that it has to do with laptop displays generally being designed and calibrated to use less power, for obvious reasons.

[ChowGuy]

Hi. Lurker here, but I had to register just to make a few observations.

1) I've seen a lot of discussion in this thread about selective targeting based on the canon "Flying units with a commander may selectively engage non-fliers on their own turn" but I don't think everyone fully understands what that means. Let me repeat, striping away the less relevant parts: "Flying units ... may selectively engage non-fliers" The salient point is not that they can chose which targets to attack, but which targets to ignore. Combine this with "(exception: enemy archery units may attack you if you are on their space... avoid!)" and we see the point. Clearly (as is not uncommon in this sort of game), non-fliers with melee strike only cannot initiate attacks on fliers, but can retaliate if attacked (and potentially do lots of damage). That's what Parson avoided by avoiding them and moving on to the next stack, rather then pressing on to destroy the "five or six full stacks" that Vinnie thought would be expected. None of that is significant to whether defending fliers can safely be ignored, nor to whether or not either a commander can direct the order of battle, whether attacking or defending.

But that's just a minor point I thought I'd throw out. Much more important:

2) A lot of people are presuming that the trap involves Ansom actually attacking the center hex, finding it empty, and being engulfed in the next turn. Unlikely. The Woodsy Elves and Gumps are probably goners but he fully expects to lose most of those on the punch-through anyway, and hopes only to "conserve" as many as possible to bolster the subsequent strike force attack on the center hex. If he leaves the survivors to be mobbed by the remaining circle, that's the fortunes of war. He might even be willing to leave the "five top Gwiffons" behind but he will never leave himself, Jillian, or (presumably) the very expensive Archons there. Even Stanley wouldn't walk into that sort of "trap." We can assume then that his plan is to pull his own "hit-and-run" back to the safety of the column and has the Move to do so.

But wait, there's more! Ansom is no fool, and will not initiate an attack until he has intel on the target. That's why he sacrificed six bats to scout the circle in the first place - "we had to know." Given that, once the ground troops have "punched through" he'd be unwise in the extreme to launch his air assualt without at least first sending in yet another bat to verify the intended targets are there. If they're not, he's not going in the Dwagon's Den either. So that can't very well be Parson's huge plan.


3) Many people here are also guessing that the "A'" Dwagons (those that took part in the attack on the column) have now moved further back beyond the fort, and into the FoW as part of the trap.This may be true, but I reject this per se as the "huge" part of the trap, since if that had/have that range, Parson would have planned for them to be back there from the beginning and built the fort there so that it would be at or beyond the maximum range of the ground troops needed to punch a hole for an air strike. That's a much safer plan that does not involve offering up three Dwagons as bait, or merely hooping that a five-Dwagon wall would stop them while a three-Dwag wall will not. It is therefore is quite possibly where he did originally plan to have them.

Likewise Ansom only "surmises" that they are there but out of move and low on hits, but he cannot know either of those conditions for a fact since lacking Stanley's real-time display, he cannot have tracked their movements, nor (I would think) their hits taken.

Now, and this may be a a totally WA idea, but has it ever been canonically confirmed that turns are entirely sequential, ie that Ansom's side "does not, [may not, and can move until after Stanley's has declared "End turn." All we know for sure is that when Parson wanted to move the Dwagon's that were left in the twees... trees with Move left, he was told they can not move (lose their MP) after End Turn, but the fact that he even asked tends to indicate that he considered it possibility of continuing his move after Ansom had.

Now I'll grant you it's rare, and strictly sequential turns are the classic rule, but there are TBS games out there that do indeed allow simultaneous turns. Indeed, I wonder how Erfworld as a whole can operate without such a mechanic, as otherwise how/when would non-currently allied factions like the Tardy Elves (or Charlie, prior to Ansom closing the deal) ever get to move? It would also help explain why Jillian appears to heal at dawn in the dungeon rather then after Stanley's move, if dawn marks the beginning of turn for *all* factions. Remember she's an ally but not herself not part of Spacerock/Jetstone tribe.

I submit then two possibilities

a) That the "A" Dwagons are there, but a lot stronger then Ansom thinks they are. Possible, but not the sort of huge, never been done before exploit Parson would look for, or

b) Parson's healthy "B" Dwagons still have move left, and he intends to use them to hit the strike force as they're on the way in, since he can see and track their movement.

[teratorn]

Parson would have planned for them to be back there from the beginning and built the fort there so that it would be at or beyond the maximum range of the ground troops needed to punch a hole for an air strike.

But the B dwagon fort may have been initially further back. Since B dwagons had some move (albeit little) he chose to put them at a position where he knows attackers from the column will be able to reach them but won't be able to retreat. He could have easily put the fort three or four hexes further into the forest, and Ansom's forces could not reach there. Having the fort so close to the column would mean maybe one more siege unit for the A dwagons, but hey he had already taken out fifty, better secure his units.

I still think it's a trap, and a trap worth 3 dawgons. I expect some suprise in there though... Only a few hours to find out.

[Freederick]

As an aside to the dwagon discussion, am I the only person who finds the gwiffon Jillian is mounted on to be adorably huggable looking?

There's no accounting for personal taste. To me, Jillian looks at least 50% more adorably huggable than her gwiffon.

[OnDroid]

...
I still think it's a trap, and a trap worth 3 dawgons. I expect some suprise in there though... Only a few hours to find out.

I still fear that you don't consider usual delay ... usually happening when there is an interesting update comming (But hope that this will not be the case)

[ChowGuy]

But the B dwagon fort may have been initially further back. Since B dwagons had some move (albeit little) he chose to put them at a position where he knows attackers from the column will be able to reach them but won't be able to retreat.

Agreed, and that's my point. He didn't have to put the platter in range, but chose to do so only after he realized Ansom's weakness. He had at first assumed that wherever it was it would be visible on Ansom's tactical display, although with 22 move I expect the doombats could still have found it further back in any case. But the fort is only needed to protect the A Dwagons from fliers, and it would have done Ansom no good to know where it was if the ground forces could not reach it to open a path. He put it that close, with a weak point just within their range to (at least) draw out the ground forces. It looks to Ansom like he's shot his whole move in the attack and is gambling on the fort holding out, and that's probably exactly what Stanley would have done if the plan had occurred to him at all, but Parson doesn't think the same way.

I still think it's a trap, and a trap worth 3 dawgons. I expect some suprise in there though...

Definitely a trap, and possibly only to lure in and destroy the ground force, since I don't believe an air strike against an empty hex would ever happen, but I doubt that alone would be worth the cost of three pwecious Dwagons, nor justify his excitement at the plan. He could have, and should have, done everything possible to protect them as well unless he really believes he can get something more in exchange. Could be an anticipated air strike force, or could be some other high value target within the column that's left suddenly without anti-Dwagon support (like, say, the Command Center itself) but it's something "huge."