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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Got a question regarding the questlines:

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    So, from what I'm hearing, it's impossible to DO ALL THE QUESTS in a single playthrough of Tyranny, and not in the sense of "There's a set of faction paths each with mutually exclusive quests" but in the sense that "There are three quest areas in the game and you can only go to two in a single playthrough, so you'll miss an entire chunk of story no matter what you do." To be more specific, you'll always go to Stalwart, and after that have options to go to Leithan's Crossing, Stone Sea or The Burning Library, but if you go to Leithan's Crossing and Stone Sea, you lose the chance to go to The Burning Library, and if you go to the Burning Library and Leithan's Crossing, you can't go to the Stone Sea and if you go to the Burning Library and the Stone Sea, you have to skip Leithan's Crossing. Is this accurate? Has anyone who's completed the game to confirm or disprove this? I'm kind of worried that if I want to undo all the Edicts, I'll have to abandon Leithan's Crossing to its problems, and for an obsessive completionist like me that's UNBELIEVABLY frustrating.
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    That would be correct. I went with the disfavored line and wound up going Stalwart-> Lethians -> Stone Sea. I was unable to go to the Burning Library.

    Edit so I don't double post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    (Mind you, that also includes a restart when I realised that magic staffs do NOT affect your spells and I may as well go unarmed, then.)
    One advantage of staves is they keep your mage out of melee range when you have all of your spells on cooldown. The two advantages of fists are they don't add a recovery penalty like staves do so you can fire off spells a little faster or wear leather armor. The second advantage is dodge will also affect melee deflection so you wont have to worry as much about staying at range.
    Last edited by Inarius; 2016-11-21 at 04:08 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Inarius View Post
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    That would be correct. I went with the disfavored line and wound up going Stalwart-> Lethians -> Stone Sea. I was unable to go to the Burning Library.
    Well. Bugger. That's unfathomably tedious.


    I'mma see if anyone has modded that yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inarius
    One advantage of staves is they keep your mage out of melee range when you have all of your spells on cooldown. The two advantages of fists are they don't add a recovery penalty like staves do so you can fire off spells a little faster or wear leather armor. The second advantage is dodge will also affect melee deflection so you wont have to worry as much about staying at range.
    To the first, so do bows (and they have a better recovery time) and to the latter, by the time get much into the game (I'm, like level 5, just about to start Act 2), if you've made any effort, you've already got, like 8-10 spell slots, plus thrust plus combo abilities (most of which want you in melee anyway), so you're unlikely to be in a position where you do much resorting to basic melee anyway.

    Still, TWF is arguably worse, since it, apparently, doesn't give you any advantage other than hitting alternately with two weapons...




    Plus side, I love Subterfuge in this game. It is the BEST for free XP...!

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Well. Bugger. That's unfathomably tedious.


    I'mma see if anyone has modded that yet.
    I read somewhere that you can use console commands to unlock the areas you miss so someone making a mod for that is probably possible.

    The most annoying thing of my run was I had to ditch Sirin because I got the godspeed bug with her. She killed a room full of bane in under a second and I couldn't figure out what happened til I looked at the combat log and saw her song was spamming the log. So yeah, if you want to play with her never ever disband her from your party because that's apparently what causes her songs to increase in speed.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    I couldn't get Sirin at all. Was I not supposed to choose that [Lore] option and block her mind control on my first encounter with her? Or does she join later?

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Can't really decide on a main character. What I want is a character with maximum dialogue options. Like a Planescape Wizard (Int/Cha with a bit of Wis)

    Is a spellcaster and/or rogue the smartest option for that?

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Can't really decide on a main character. What I want is a character with maximum dialogue options. Like a Planescape Wizard (Int/Cha with a bit of Wis)

    Is a spellcaster and/or rogue the smartest option for that?
    Dialogue options are limited to (as far as I've seen) the various background choices you made, plus Athletics, Lore and Subterfuge skills. Nothing I've seen uses attributes. And you get skill XP for each time you use one of those skills, (casting spells et al for Lore, sneaking around/opening locked objects/traps for Subterfuge using interactable objects for Athletics). I personally found once I'd got started, a few ranks of training was plenty enough to get me over the first qualifiers for Athletics and Subterfuge and from there, it's not too hard to keep it all up.

    So, the short answer is, you can pretty much do whatever build you like, if you're prepared to devote some of your starting skill ranks to those skills. (I didn't with athletics, but it still wasn't that hard to catch back up.)

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Your combat skills go up really fast in combat (funny, that), so the best thing to do with your starting skills is pour all the points into Athletics, Lore, and Subterfuge. As in, don't put a single point into your weapons or magic skills - just upgrade those. That should get you sufficient to pass the dialogue checks right from the very start.

    The other important thing to note for a dialogue-based character is that your background gives you skills. Diplomat gives a major increase to Lore and Subterfuge, so that's recommended.

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    I couldn't get Sirin at all. Was I not supposed to choose that [Lore] option and block her mind control on my first encounter with her? Or does she join later?
    She can be found in a house in Leithan's Crossing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickford View Post
    I don't understand your point. Why does it matter what I said?

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Got a question regarding the questlines:

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    So, from what I'm hearing, it's impossible to DO ALL THE QUESTS in a single playthrough of Tyranny, and not in the sense of "There's a set of faction paths each with mutually exclusive quests" but in the sense that "There are three quest areas in the game and you can only go to two in a single playthrough, so you'll miss an entire chunk of story no matter what you do." To be more specific, you'll always go to Stalwart, and after that have options to go to Leithan's Crossing, Stone Sea or The Burning Library, but if you go to Leithan's Crossing and Stone Sea, you lose the chance to go to The Burning Library, and if you go to the Burning Library and Leithan's Crossing, you can't go to the Stone Sea and if you go to the Burning Library and the Stone Sea, you have to skip Leithan's Crossing. Is this accurate? Has anyone who's completed the game to confirm or disprove this? I'm kind of worried that if I want to undo all the Edicts, I'll have to abandon Leithan's Crossing to its problems, and for an obsessive completionist like me that's UNBELIEVABLY frustrating.
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    There's actually a way. You just have to betray your chosen faction. There are essentialy four paths in the game, and the "alone" path lets you visit all locations.
    Many thanks to Assassin 89 for this avatar!

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
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    There's actually a way. You just have to betray your chosen faction. There are essentialy four paths in the game, and the "alone" path lets you visit all locations.
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    Betraying the Vendrien Guard after giving them a fighting chance feels like a real jerk move, though.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
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    There's actually a way. You just have to betray your chosen faction. There are essentialy four paths in the game, and the "alone" path lets you visit all locations.
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    Does choosing the alone path and visiting all locations actually lengthen the game, then?

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
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    Does choosing the alone path and visiting all locations actually lengthen the game, then?
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    It Depends I think. I was independent but basically didn't do much in the Stone Sea. My friend had a very different experience there, despite also being independent.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
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    Betraying the Vendrien Guard after giving them a fighting chance feels like a real jerk move, though.
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    Well, it is a game that lets you be evil.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
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    Does choosing the alone path and visiting all locations actually lengthen the game, then?
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    Probably, but I don't know how exactly it affects what you can do in each location
    Many thanks to Assassin 89 for this avatar!

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Finally finished, after scrapping my first poorly optimized character who also didn't get the results I wanted. Turns out walking up to people and saying "Hi, I'm from the Evil Empire, and I'm here to help!" really doesn't cut it, and I wound up Lawful Evil instead of the Lawful Good I was trying for. Second playthrough was full "Screw you, Kyros" and it went a heckuva lot better.

    I do love that you can get an epic Tunon facepalm by doing this.

    The ending seemed kinda...abrupt. Obviously setting up for a sequel, but I still would have liked more answers than we got. The game also was heading for an epic final confrontation which never occurred. Hmph.

    Still going to go for another playthrough, as I've never gotten over to the Burning Library and I would love to see what a Chaotic Evil playthrough would be like.

    I have a question about the Stalwart questline though.

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    When I first did the quests, I was working with the Disfavored and so nobody would listen to me and I had to murder my way through the Unbroken. I also had to murder my way through the Regent's men, but when it came time to kill the baby I took the obvious way out - have Amelia abdicate the throne and end the Edict. When I played through a second time, I was able to convince the Unbroken to join me and murdered the Disfavored instead...then got to Regent, and he still wouldn't listen and forced me to murder him and his men. Okay, required boss battle, fine. But then, I didn't get the option to save the baby. I was given an option to research it, but the decision was pressed upon me right then that the Unbroken wouldn't join me unless baby goes bye-bye. I decided on "the greater good" and killed the baby, but it bothers me that one path gave me the option to save it and the other didn't. It wasn't a lore or subterfuge check - my character had very high stats in both.

    So, is this just something unique to the Disfavored plotline? Or is there a way to save the baby and have the Unbroken join you? It also feels like you should be able to talk the Regent down, but I'm less convinced of that.

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
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    But then, I didn't get the option to save the baby. I was given an option to research it, but the decision was pressed upon me right then that the Unbroken wouldn't join me unless baby goes bye-bye. I decided on "the greater good" and killed the baby, but it bothers me that one path gave me the option to save it and the other didn't. It wasn't a lore or subterfuge check - my character had very high stats in both.
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    From what I recall, the option was a Lore thing (though I did play my first game as Disfavored as well, have yet to start another run). How high was your Lore? IIRC, you needed somethink like 70 or so...
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickford View Post
    I don't understand your point. Why does it matter what I said?

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
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    Well, it is a game that lets you be evil.
    I know, but it still feels like a uniquely jerk move.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Divayth Fyr View Post
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    From what I recall, the option was a Lore thing (though I did play my first game as Disfavored as well, have yet to start another run). How high was your Lore? IIRC, you needed somethink like 70 or so...
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    Possibly not that high, my character was Subterfuge first and then Lore second, so it's likely my Lore was in the 60s. However, I did have the "show conversation options that I'm not qualified for" on, so I should have seen it if that were the case.


    Playing Chaotic Evil has given me a new appreciation for Steam Achievements.

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    When kicking Tarkis Arri off the Spire, I got the achievement "THIS! IS! TYRANNY!"

    I'm also impressed that the game allowed me to throw Lantry to the Voices of Nerat, and then cave in Eb's skull when she offers to swap sides. Death to the enemies of the Empire.

    It also seems like there's enemy scaling based on how many people you have in your party - since I sided with the Scarlet Chorus Barik also hated me, so I chucked him out of my party. I ended up completing the first area with only two party members, and while it was harder it wasn't nearly as hard as it should have been to complete the quest with two people instead of four.

    I'm going to try and do the run with only the three Scarlet Chorus associated characters - myself, Verse, and Sirin. Should be interesting.

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    While I do appreciate the information that there's apparently a way to play good in this game (my likelihood of buying it just jumped up), it seems kind of goofy to me to expect to be able to both play good in a game designed for playing evil and do everything in that game on the same playthrough.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    While I do appreciate the information that there's apparently a way to play good in this game (my likelihood of buying it just jumped up), it seems kind of goofy to me to expect to be able to both play good in a game designed for playing evil and do everything in that game on the same playthrough.
    You can't even do everything when you play Evil.

    They really really really expect you to do multiple playthroughs.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2016-11-24 at 07:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    That frustrates me immensely.

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    Especially since it appears that you can't do everything without being a jerkwad to the good guys in some way, whether it's siding with one of the evil groups to crush them and betraying the evil group, or joining them and pumping them up with false hope before kicking the plucky rebel leader off your spire in a corny shout-out to 300.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    That frustrates me immensely.

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    Especially since it appears that you can't do everything without being a jerkwad to the good guys in some way, whether it's siding with one of the evil groups to crush them and betraying the evil group, or joining them and pumping them up with false hope before kicking the plucky rebel leader off your spire in a corny shout-out to 300.
    Just as a side note the "good" guys aren't really all that good. Its just that when compared to Kyros they aren't all that bad.

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    For instance Eb mentions that before the conquest the Vendrian guard would of probably killed her or sold her to the sages just because she was a mage. The sages themselves were known to kidnap mages of other schools to learn their magic and were always stirring up the other major powers in the Tiers to war against each other.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Yeah, the problem with many factions and paths is that sometimes the options you present and the options the players want don't coincide.

    Case in point, I'm running with Scarlet Chorus now because of... necessities, but if there won't be a neutral/indep/high justice option later on, I'll probably be pretty miffed.

    Also, I tried betraying the Chorus in Blade Grave, and the journal just sends me to Vendrien's Well afterwards, saying that I botched up Blade Grave and should wait at home. Yeah.

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Inarius View Post
    Just as a side note the "good" guys aren't really all that good. Its just that when compared to Kyros they aren't all that bad.

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    For instance Eb mentions that before the conquest the Vendrian guard would of probably killed her or sold her to the sages just because she was a mage. The sages themselves were known to kidnap mages of other schools to learn their magic and were always stirring up the other major powers in the Tiers to war against each other.
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    I know this, but Eb STILL doesn't like it when you kick Tarkis Arri off the Spire.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    So, side discussion. What's everyone favorite custom spells?

    Frostfire Icicle Storm seems like a no-brainer, and I'm partial to adding Marking to stuff like Fulmination or Unravel Minds to prepare for a follow-up.

    Force + Cone + Rooting seems like good a panic button as well, if your mage is getting ganked too often.

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Has anyone made a map of how the Conquest decisions impact the game? I'm one of those guys who wants the story to flow together well, and want to at least make sure I experience whatever I had a direct impact on.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    So, side discussion. What's everyone favorite custom spells?

    Frostfire Icicle Storm seems like a no-brainer, and I'm partial to adding Marking to stuff like Fulmination or Unravel Minds to prepare for a follow-up.

    Force + Cone + Rooting seems like good a panic button as well, if your mage is getting ganked too often.
    I missed out on a few expressions my first run. Didn't realize you could only get the cone expression in the first area for instance, but a favorite of mine wound up being fireball + expanded ae + frostfire. Hits over a fairly large area and applies burning(which base fireball doesn't) and freeze. I put that on my mage and Lantry and made that one of the opener spells I would cast. Similar setup for the ranged heal spell also works amazingly but instead of frostfire you can add the rejuvenation effect to reduce your recovery after casting it.

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    Has anyone made a map of how the Conquest decisions impact the game? I'm one of those guys who wants the story to flow together well, and want to at least make sure I experience whatever I had a direct impact on.
    As far as I can tell, they don't have major direct impacts like determining where you go, etc. The main impact is reputation. A couple of examples that are early enough I won't spoiler:

    If you decide to kill the Vendrien Queen in combat, the Vendrien Guard will all be out for your head, and will constantly be calling you "Queenslayer". It's an instant Wrath hit, but presumably even that can be erased with effort.

    When you first arrive at the Scarlet Chorus camp, a couple of the guards try to shake you down. If you've sided with the Scarlet Chorus enough in Conquest mode, the first guard will try to shake you down and then get a dope slap from the second guard for not recognizing you. This gets you past the guards without either bribing them or passing a skill check.

    I'm pretty sure that the areas you visit are not dependent on where you choose to go during Conquest. Even if you don't pick Apex, that's where you go to begin with. On my second run I picked Stalwart out of the three Conquest locations, and was still given that as a choice for my second place to go. I think of the three Edict locations, what matters is the faction you choose, but I'm not sure about that.

    Mostly, Conquest seems to be throwaway lines about what you did during the war (with appropriate Reputation shift), and changes certain dialogue options in conversation. Don't ever forget what you did, because you can ask stupid questions and suffer a Wrath hit from someone you screwed over.

    Edit:

    On favorite spell combos: Wisps + Bounce expression. Learn the range of the bounce, then stick one other person close to whoever you want to heal. It'll bounce back and forth between them for a full heal on each.
    Last edited by Rodin; 2016-11-25 at 11:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Inarius View Post
    I missed out on a few expressions my first run. Didn't realize you could only get the cone expression in the first area for instance, but a favorite of mine wound up being fireball + expanded ae + frostfire. Hits over a fairly large area and applies burning(which base fireball doesn't) and freeze. I put that on my mage and Lantry and made that one of the opener spells I would cast. Similar setup for the ranged heal spell also works amazingly but instead of frostfire you can add the rejuvenation effect to reduce your recovery after casting it.
    Ha, yes, I have that same heal spell on my quickspell list as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    On favorite spell combos: Wisps + Bounce expression. Learn the range of the bounce, then stick one other person close to whoever you want to heal. It'll bounce back and forth between them for a full heal on each.
    Nice, though I haven't found the bounce accent yet.

    Overall, I think the spellmaking process was a very good addition to the game.

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    Nice, though I haven't found the bounce accent yet.

    Overall, I think the spellmaking process was a very good addition to the game.
    The bounce aspect comes pretty late in the game, though it makes for a pretty mean chain lightning when you do get it.

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    Default Re: Obsidian and Paradox's new joint title: Tyranny

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    As far as I can tell, they don't have major direct impacts like determining where you go, etc. The main impact is reputation. A couple of examples that are early enough I won't spoiler:

    If you decide to kill the Vendrien Queen in combat, the Vendrien Guard will all be out for your head, and will constantly be calling you "Queenslayer". It's an instant Wrath hit, but presumably even that can be erased with effort.

    When you first arrive at the Scarlet Chorus camp, a couple of the guards try to shake you down. If you've sided with the Scarlet Chorus enough in Conquest mode, the first guard will try to shake you down and then get a dope slap from the second guard for not recognizing you. This gets you past the guards without either bribing them or passing a skill check.

    I'm pretty sure that the areas you visit are not dependent on where you choose to go during Conquest. Even if you don't pick Apex, that's where you go to begin with. On my second run I picked Stalwart out of the three Conquest locations, and was still given that as a choice for my second place to go. I think of the three Edict locations, what matters is the faction you choose, but I'm not sure about that.

    Mostly, Conquest seems to be throwaway lines about what you did during the war (with appropriate Reputation shift), and changes certain dialogue options in conversation. Don't ever forget what you did, because you can ask stupid questions and suffer a Wrath hit from someone you screwed over.
    That's not entirely what I was asking...

    Spoiler: Conquest and Game Spoilers!
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    What I'm trying to say is I want to strongly link the decisions I make in Conquest with the quests I do in the game proper, to create a more cohesive narrative, and if I do one of the non-Anarchist paths, I won't see everything, so there's the risk of me making a decision in Conquest that I don't get to revisit, like say, reading the Edict of Fire and then never getting the chance to go to the Burning Library in the game. It feels like the only GUARANTEED place you'll visit in every playthrough is Stalwart, so the Edict of Storms FEELS like a safe bet, but then you don't get the opportunities to influence your companions through Conquest decisions, like with allowing Sirin to build her cults for a much-needed boost, as I've heard that there are VERY few opportunities in the game itself to build her Loyalty through dialogue, or the influence you get with Eb by going to Apex and making decisions directly concerning the Tidecasters, or with Verse by helping the Scarlet Chorus in Azure. I just feel like there's so many plates in the air at once with this game, and it's frustrating to try and figure out the path I'll eventually weave through it, because I don't want to tick Eb off by kicking Tarkis Arri off the Spire, and that pretty much locks me into the Rebel path instead of the Anarchist one if I want to tell the Disfavored and Scarlet Chorus to stuff it...
    Last edited by Archpaladin Zousha; 2016-11-26 at 08:52 PM.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

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