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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    From how i read it, he started at 5/5 in all, retracting when he found something disagreeable, instead of the usually excepted, starting at 3/5, and raising it if the entry goes above and beyond expected

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    From how i read it, he started at 5/5 in all, retracting when he found something disagreeable, instead of the usually excepted, starting at 3/5, and raising it if the entry goes above and beyond expected
    I split the difference, starting at 4/5, adding if it's exceptional and removing if it needs improvement.
    Iron Chef Award!

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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Sorry friends, I won't be able to hold court on this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Aw, too bad.

    Then we're done once Vaz weighs in?
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    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Given that Vaz said 'Later tonight' last Sunday ... ehhh ...

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    It would seem to be nearing time to wrap this round up.

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    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    I would prefer to hear from Vaz before calling it closed.

    (Maybe he's angling for my record... I think I went two weeks after the deadline once?)

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Here come the builds here come the builds!
    Before I start my judging, I just want to say that I read this like this.

    Spoiler: Criteria
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    I grade holistically and I don't like fractions.

    Spoiler: Vultag Thunderkeg (13)
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    Originality: 3
    We've seen a lot of this formula before: Barbarian dip for pounce, Monk and Fighter dips for bonus feats, Cloistered Cleric dip for domain feats and turning. These all do a good job of supporting the secret ingredient, but the ground here is well-trodden. Artificer is uncommon, though, and the backstory is quite good, so on balance you squeeze through with a baseline score here. You also have some nifty little tricks that are pretty creative, but while that helps your Originality a little bit, it's primarily boosting your UoSI.

    Power: 4
    You have a strong damage output, you come online early, and you have good ways to stay relevant late. I'm not going to say my mind is blown, but you're doing decently well for yourself.

    Elegance: 1
    Hopefully this isn't a surprise to you, since you took two illegal classes and a 60% multiclass xp penalty. I realize that you don't lose anything for shifting alignment after taking your Barbarian level, but that doesn't mean it's not inelegant. And I might give you a pass if you were just grabbing a spell or a feat from an Eberron book, but Artificers are one of the most iconic features of the Eberron setting. You might as well give your character a dragonmark while you're at it. As for that 60% xp penalty, you can consider yourself lucky I'm not also docking you in Power for not having enough xp to reach 20th level.

    On the upside, I wish more contestants had written their skills out with as much clarity as you did.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 5
    You certainly found some clever ways to jump off your hippogriff. Trickery Devotion is getting you the bulk of the points here, since it is legitimately awesome with this class, but Drunken Master is also very cute, as is swift ready, and while the standard ubercharger tricks were an obvious place to go, I would be remiss if I didn't give you credit for them.

    Spoiler: Ivarr Deathborn (15)
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    Originality: 5
    Wow, this was definitely not an expected concept. Totemist, sure, that's nothing out of the ordinary on a chargey prestige class like this one, but Death Master into Horned Harbinger to get a buffed-up undead hippogriff? That was way off my radar. And the story is also great. I feel pretty good giving you full marks here.

    Power: 4
    Not much to say here except that I think your overall power level is roughly similar to Vultag's—the additional MADness hurts you, but it's not like I'm doing a bunch of math to properly figure out who has the better damage output when it probably wouldn't change the scores either way. It's close enough.

    Elegance: 2
    While you avoid multiclass penalties, you're eating a dead level in order to do so, which, honestly, is almost as bad. Not quite as bad, but still bad. An elegant build would have found a better break point. You also have two patron deities (Orcus and Myrkul), where Forgotten Realms characters are generally only allowed one, IIRC. I would normally scold you for taking Mounted Combat and then not maxing Ride, but I'll cut you some slack since you left a soulmeld slot free for Riding Bracers to make up for it. Then there's the elephant in the room, which is the template-looping to power up your hippogriff. I'll be blunt: this doesn't work. It relies on stacking bonuses from the same source, which is against the rules. Lucky for you, the build doesn't rely on that trick, or I'd be harsher.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4
    There's some nice stuff going on here. Using an undead hippogriff is clever. You have lots of ways to boost your charges. You have minions to help with drogue wings, although I question whether that's the most efficient use of them. I like that you managed to get good use out of the Toughness prerequisite. All in all, I think you earned an above average score despite not taking all 10 levels, which is hard to do.

    Spoiler: Bromdorn "Bolt" Stormspear (9)
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    Originality: 2
    While Bloodstorm Blade is a cute gimmick, this is still a fairly standard ubercharger build. The addition of thrown weapon synergies sets you apart at least enough to keep you off of a 1, but on the whole, I'm not impressed.

    Power: 3
    The reason you're receiving a lower grade than the previous two entries is because you fall off harder in the later levels. You definitely have a good kick at the start with your early Warblade levels, and you can hold your own as a Shock Trooper (even if it's delayed somewhat), which is enough to earn you a 3. However, most of the latter half of your build does very little to improve your capabilities outside of just adding more BAB to Power Attack with.

    Elegance: 2
    I think TroubleBrewing let you off too easy in this category. It's good that you kept your build relatively simple, maintained full BAB for all 20 levels, and stuck to a coherent high concept. But you also chose a baffling break point for Barbarian (do you really need Trapkiller?), took a multiclass xp penalty at 4th level for no reason, failed to place your initiator levels strategically when you easily could have done so, and, most importantly of all, blatantly forgot to take the prerequisite feats for Great Rift Skyguard. Elegance is more than simplicity, and this build looks a little rough around the edges to me.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2
    On the other hand, I agree 100% with TroubleBrewing in this category. As funny as the teleporting trick may be, I'm skeptical as to its actual usefulness, and it looks to me like this build just isn't doing all that much with Great Rift Skyguard.

    Spoiler: Bolfarg of Knoss (13)
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    Originality: 4
    Suddenly, a half-fiend who sires his own half-fiendish hippogriffs. I certainly did not see that coming. A bold move, and you are rewarded for it in this category—although the fact that you used what may have been the two most blatantly obvious base classes possible keeps you from scoring full marks.

    Power: 2
    Unfortunately, you are punished for your boldness in this category, where that +4 LA rips a big chunk off of your Power score. It hurts both your offensive and defensive capabilities, and makes your key tricks come online much later than they normally would. Knockback is not worth it, especially considering that it doesn't come until all the way at ECL 13.

    Elegance: 4
    That being said, I think this is the most elegant of the four builds. It keeps things relatively simple, and I can't find any glaring rules issues aside from the problem of dungeoncrashing enemies into the ground, which, let's be honest, isn't really all that problematic. The pieces click together well, and there's a solid flow to the build.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3
    Getting a better hippogriff by siring your own is amusing, and you have Shock Trooper and pounce doing their usual good work. On the other hand, Large size seems to actively work against the SI, and the other abilities of the class don't seem to be seeing a ton of use here. I don't see a reason to go below the baseline here, but I'm also not seeing much reason to go above it.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    We have a second judge! And you know what that means - more disputes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromdorn Stormspear
    I don't know what 'prerequisite feats' you're talking about: could you clarify?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vultag
    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    I grade holistically and I don't like fractions.
    Huzzah!

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Hopefully this isn't a surprise to you, since you took two illegal classes and a 60% multiclass xp penalty.
    Could you specify which classes are illegal?

    And in what I suspect would be mostly in the interests of pointless pedantry, I believe only Simple Barbarian and Cloistered Cleric count towards the XP penalty, so that would be 40%, not 60%. Monk is within 1 level of Artificer, and Fighter is a favored class for gold dwarves. I attempted to address this with a note about picking up Iron Will/Otyugh Hole and taking a level of Dragonslayer, but that's not entirely elegant either. Swift ready is also available as an Assassin spell, so replacing Artificer 3 with Assassin 3 would also avoid an XP penalty, but Divebombing Dwarf Assassin seemed like just a shade too far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromdorn
    I don't know what 'prerequisite feats' you're talking about: could you clarify?
    Mounted Combat and Toughness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vultag
    Could you specify which classes are illegal?
    Barbarian (requires nonlawful alignment) and Artificer (not available in the Forgotten Realms).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vultag
    And in what I suspect would be mostly in the interests of pointless pedantry, I believe only Simple Barbarian and Cloistered Cleric count towards the XP penalty, so that would be 40%, not 60%. Monk is within 1 level of Artificer, and Fighter is a favored class for gold dwarves.
    This is true. I mistyped it. It seems you got the gist, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vultag
    I attempted to address this with a note about picking up Iron Will/Otyugh Hole and taking a level of Dragonslayer, but that's not entirely elegant either. Swift ready is also available as an Assassin spell, so replacing Artificer 3 with Assassin 3 would also avoid an XP penalty, but Divebombing Dwarf Assassin seemed like just a shade too far.
    Yes, it is a puzzle, isn't it? I think Dragonslayer or Assassin might have improved your score if you'd found a way to work it into the story, but who knows. Anyway, while I encourage adaptations (they're a helpful tool for players who might want to try out a build in their own games, and an interesting insight into the author's thought process), I usually don't include them in my scores.

    No changes.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Table updated.

    Scores After Two Judges
    Entry Place TroubleBrewing Troacctid Total
    Vultag Thunderkeg (link) Gold 18 13 31
    Bolfarg of Knoss (link) Gold 18 13 31
    Ivarr Deathborn (link) Bronze 15.25 15.5 30.75
    Bromdorn 'Bolt' Stormspear (link) Fourth 13 9 22

    No word from Vaz... were you close to done, or is it a lost cause now?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    I've got another four messages in my inbox which I'll post once I get on a proper computer. Apologies for the slow pace of my updates this contest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Sorry for the delay folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr Deathborn
    Thanks for judging Troacctid. I just have a few small points/explanations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Elegance: 2
    While you avoid multiclass penalties, you're eating a dead level in order to do so, which, honestly, is almost as bad. Not quite as bad, but still bad. An elegant build would have found a better break point. You also have two patron deities (Orcus and Myrkul), where Forgotten Realms characters are generally only allowed one, IIRC. I would normally scold you for taking Mounted Combat and then not maxing Ride, but I'll cut you some slack since you left a soulmeld slot free for Riding Bracers to make up for it. Then there's the elephant in the room, which is the template-looping to power up your hippogriff. I'll be blunt: this doesn't work. It relies on stacking bonuses from the same source, which is against the rules. Lucky for you, the build doesn't rely on that trick, or I'd be harsher.
    The class description for Horned Harbinger says that most Horned Harbingers worship other evil deities (what with Myrkul being dead and all) prior to adopting the prestige class and that Clerics of those deities retain their powers and domains even after switching to worship Myrkul. Technically, it says that most were former Myrkul worshipers whose patron shifted after his death then reverted back, as opposed to new converts like Ivarr, but even so, the class is explicitly designed around a shift in worship. I believe there's also some connection between Faerun Orcus and Myrkul which smooths the transition a bit, though I'm not exactly an expert in the nuances of FR lore.

    Mounted Combat I had sort of given up on due to how little time Skyguards actually spend in the saddle and the fact that they require a race with a Dex penalty. I was also operating under the impression that the template looping would potentially give Myna an AC well above any Ride check Ivarr would be able to manage. But as you say, the Riding Bracers somewhat make up for it. With at least a point of essentia invested there, Ivarr can actually tie or exceed the highest Ride mod of any of the entries. Sounds as though you didn't actually take points away here though.

    I hadn't thought about the bonuses from templates coming from the same source. I did think of it with regard to the increased HP from Desecrate, but not with regard to template numbers themselves. You might have a point there. Still, the "baseline" Hippogriff Zombie Skeleton gets a net +2 Str,+5 NA which can actually be stacked on top of the set values given by Hippogriff Steed, and DR 5/bludgeoning to overlap with the DR/magic, an added Slam attack, and Cold Immunity. Also, what constitutes a bonus? Because the glossary definition doesn't seem to even extend to this case (though it would also fail to cover a number of other things which are explicitly bonuses), and it would certainly be a stretch to consider non-numerical things like added natural weapons (the Slam that the zombie template adds, for instance) to be bonuses. So even if the numbers don't go up, they won't go down either as penalties from the same source also don't stack and a Hippogriff Zombien Skeleton will arguably have n slams along with the aforementioned statistical improvements. I'd fluff the slams as the bones of Myna's rib cage opening up and then striking the enemy as they closed shut. It's appropriately gross and fits with the womb imagery I used throughout the story. It's not quite as sexy as the +2n Str, +5n+2k NA, +2m Dex from the Hippogriff (Zombie Skeleton)n Skeletonm proposed in the write-up would have been, but it's something. She can't just use the Sphinx Claws to get pounce like Ivarr as she has Con and hence can't take Incarnum feats, but it's not that hard to construct a means of moving and full attacking through either items (possibly self crafted through feat shenanigans during the iterations of template looping) or feats (if nothing else, 9 HD is enough for Travel Devotion x4 which will get her through an adventuring day). So it does at least work to some extent. I'm not sure that makes the trick any more elegant, but it's probably at least more functional.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4
    You have minions to help with drogue wings, although I question whether that's the most efficient use of them.
    A Drogue Wing pit crew takes 2 HD worth of undead, or 3 if you need to add one to help Ivarr out of his shield as well. While he can certainly do other things with some of his animated minions, he also has a few HD worth of commanded undead through rebuking. The max HD of undead commanded in this way is pretty low, and there really isn't much better use for them than standing by to do menial work like this, especially in combat. I doubt that this is enough to get Ivarr from a 4 to a full 5, but figured I might as well mention it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromdorn Stormspear
    Shame on me for not using a reliable source. That's the last time I'm going to use that site again without checking the book first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vultag
    Aside from the absurdity of making a statement about something "not available" in a campaign world that contains magical gunpowder, beholder spaceships, and a miniature giant space hamster, I concede the point. No further disputes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    You shouldn't get infinite slam attacks either.
    The number of attacks a creature can make with its natural weapons depends on the type of the attack—a creature can make one bite attack, one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack, or one slam attack. Large or larger creatures that have arms or armlike limbs can make a slam attack with each arm.
    I didn't notice that bit about Horned Harbingers switching deities, though. The point you lost in Elegance was maybe half that and half the Battledancer thing, so I'll give you back half a point. (I mean, that's not exactly how it works when you're grading holistically, but I don't want to let you off the hook for the dead level.)

    +0.5 to Ivarr.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Alright then. That would appear to be that.

    While we're waiting for the final reveal, I had a thought for a build combining things from a few of the different builds.

    Divine Minion of Anhur Gold Dwarf Dungeon Crasher Fighter 6/Archivist 3/Great Rift Skyguard 10
    1. Fighter 1 - Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush
    2. Dungeon Crasher Fighter 2
    3. Archivist 1 - Mounted Combat, Scribe Scroll
    4. Archivist 2
    5. Archivist 3
    6. Fighter 3 - Toughness
    7. Great Rift Skyguard 1
    8. Great Rift Skyguard 2
    9. Great Rift Skyguard 3 - Knockback, Mounted Casting
    10. Great Rift Skyguard 4
    11. Great Rift Skyguard 5
    12. Great Rift Skyguard 6 - Assume Supernatural Ability (Ravid's Animate Objects)
    13. Fighter 4 - Shock Trooper
    14. Fighter 5
    15. Dungeon Crasher Fighter 6 - Improved Unarmed Strike
    16. Great Rift Skyguard 7 - Mounted Mobility
    17. Great Rift Skyguard 8
    18. Great Rift Skyguard 9 - Improved Assume Supernatural Ability
    19. Great Rift Skyguard 10

    Archivist 3 gives us Make Whole as a 1st level spell (Balance Domain), Swift Ready as a 2nd level spell (Divine Bard), and Alter Self as a 2nd level spell (Divine Bard or Favored Soul of Bahamut or Tiamat) along with some nice things like Rhino's Rush to work in with charging. Alter Self into a Ravid and gain their ability to animate objects at random. From your position up in the air you can limit this somewhat so that it will include your Drogue Wing which will also have Swift Ready cast on it and suspiciously be sized for a large creature. Being a creature, it will then presumably not meld into your form when you Fast Wild Shape into a Lion as a free action mid dive (allowing you to be an appropriate size to ride your large-sized Hippogriff while also being able to do Bolfarg's Knockback tricks). With the Ritual of Alignment, the build can also sire Half-Celestial Hippogriffs, assuming that you can convince your DM that bestiality is an act befitting a Good - (Good), in fact - character. Being able to make yourself large mid-fall even makes Skyguard Catapult a bit better.

    A less elegant evil version of the build might try to work in Thrall of Juiblex 4 to get Alter Self at will instead of burning through spell slots. This would require a fall from grace, and likely being dedicated to an Elder Evil (Zargon, presumably), but it'd invite a Bartholomew and the Ooblek expy in the fluff (the magicians would cause something new to come down from the sky by warping the Divine Minion into a servant of the Faceless Lord who would then do just that), which would bring the classiness factor back up a bit.

    Alternately (or additionally if you don't mind losing a few Skyguard levels and can retain PrC abilities after disqualifying yourself) for the feat tax of Weapon Focus (Falchion), the build could go Ordained Champion 3 and get Channel Spell for the move actions that Axes from the Sky frees up. Maybe Unarmed Swordsage 1/Archivist 1/Dungeon Crasher Fighter 2/Ordained Champion 3/Great Rift Skyguard 10/Deepstone Sentinel 1/Swordsage +1.
    Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2016-05-08 at 09:23 AM.

    Iron Chef Medals
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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    . Alter Self into a Ravid and gain their ability to animate objects at random. From your position up in the air you can limit this somewhat so that it will include your Drogue Wing which will also have Swift Ready cast on it and suspiciously be sized for a large creature.
    If you only have one item with you, it will be the only item that changes. That means that you must be naked except for the drogue wing, and you have ride the hippogriff bareback, at a huge minus to the ride check. Maybe you'll develop callouses from the hippogriff hair?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    If you only have one item with you, it will be the only item that changes. That means that you must be naked except for the drogue wing, and you have ride the hippogriff bareback, at a huge minus to the ride check. Maybe you'll develop callouses from the hippogriff hair?
    It's CL20 and happens as a free action every round. You can afford to have more items than just the Drogue Wing around. Of course, that means you need some advanced warning of combat or need to wrangle the Thrall of Juiblex version so you can just sit around in Ravid form all day.

    Iron Chef Medals
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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    sooo ... what are we waiting for?
    Last edited by Sian; 2016-05-09 at 02:59 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #169
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    sooo ... what are we waiting for?
    Chairman, if I had to guess.
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  20. - Top - End - #170
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Yeah since disputes are responded to, I think it's probably time to wrap up and move on.
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    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    sooo ... what are we waiting for?
    My tardy arse. Here you go, folks! And thanks for the handy table, Darrin.


    Scores After Two Judges
    Entry Chef Place TroubleBrewing Troacctid Total
    Vultag Thunderkeg (link) Darrin Gold 18 13 31
    Bolfarg of Knoss (link) WhamBamSam Gold 18 13 31
    Ivarr Deathborn (link) WhamBamSam Bronze 15.25 15.5 30.75
    Bromdorn 'Bolt' Stormspear (link) Dire_Stirge Fourth 13 9 22

    Congratulations to our chefs, all three of you!
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    WhamBamSam's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Good round all.

    I'm glad that Ivarr's backstory went over so well. I had a lot of fun writing it. I was a little disappointed that he fell just short of the Gold, as he was really the labor of love, whereas Bolfarg was more thrown together at the last minute, but them's the breaks. Can't really complain about pulling in a Gold and a Bronze.

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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Darrin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    I promised the Viscount an unofficial judging for his blind dwarf build.

    Muir Komet: 10

    Originality: 4.5
    So... jumping off a flying mount wasn't whackadoodle enough. Let's make him blind! You would have also been the only entry with Beast Heart Adept. Crusader/Duskblade entry is also kinda unusual.

    Power: 2
    My first issue is it's not clear how you find your foes. The Tremor graft won't work while flying. You have telepathy out to a mile via your hippogriff, so I'm curious why you didn't pick up Mindsight instead of Elemental Grafter. However, this might have made detecting your foes *TOO* easy, as you'd be able to pinpoint all intelligent creatures out to a mile. This might have made the whole "Blind Justice" trick somewhat meaningless (outside of mindless creatures). It would have also left you with a 5' movement, which would have been against the spirit of the build. Using the Tremor graft restricts your attacks to one standard action a round, which means three of your four iterative attacks from BAB +19 are going to waste. There are some other methods to get tremorsense or blindsense that might have worked better here... Willing Deformity (Tongue), for example, or Soulsight from MoI. Then there are the typical psionic options: synesthete, touchsight, etc. Once you're on the ground, the Tremor graft requires you to expend a move action to pinpoint creatures within 20', and there's no duration so you can't tell if your enemies have moved. You do eventually get enough ranks in Listen that you can pinpoint your foes that way, but it comes in very late.

    My second issue is, once you've located your foe, you still have a 50% miss chance due to total concealment, and no Blindsight. Dragon Totem Barbarian 1 or Knight of the Middle Circle 1 can get it as a bonus feat, and after that, Blindsight 5' Radius (from Sword & Fist) would have been ideal: if you're lucky enough to actually land adjacent to your foe, no miss chance to worry about. I have no idea how you'd meet the the Wis 19 prereq, although you can get a similar ability with Combat Focus/Combat Awareness (PHBII).

    My third issue is once you've hit your foe... how much damage are you actually doing? If you have to depend on your Tremor graft to pinpoint them, then not much damage at all, as you've only got a standard action left, and no Power Attack. You do have some maneuvers you can use, such as Bonesplitting Strike, Mountain Hammer, and so forth, but nothing really earth-shaking. Damage output goes up if you can pinpoint your foes with a free action via a Listen check (DC 20), which allows you to full attack and enjoy all that BAB.

    You still have the hippogriff to pick you up and drop you off wherever you need to be, and the hippogriff itself can see and attack enemies normally, so that's mostly why you don't have a "1" in this category. However, it's disappointing that you couldn't take more Beast Heart Adept levels for a stronger hippogriff.

    Elegance: 1.5
    There's something else missing in this build other than eyesight: the Toughness feat, which is a requirement for Great Rift Skyguard. However, this is easily fixed: you took a flaw, and didn't use it for anything, so... use it for Toughness. I'm not entirely sure how to penalize that, as you're using the flaw to deliberately reduce your speed, which is at least a clever idea if not a particularly effective one. Duskblade doesn't seem like it fits well here... you already have shield proficiency via Crusader, and true strike still takes a standard action to cast. I would have preferred to see Deepstone Sentinel earlier rather than later in the build, as taking more levels of Great Rift Skyguard doesn't appear to be helping you much. You'd have to spend a feat on Martial Study to get Crushing Vice, but I think I would have preferred that to Shielded Casting. Outside of all that... the Blind Dwarf and Superhero Landing are neat ideas, but they needed a little more effort to get them past the Tufnel/St. Hubbins line. Even so, rather than give you a minimum score here, I'll give you half a point for at least getting close to the line.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2
    Outside of the not qualifying thing, there are several abilities here you don't mention or have much use for, although that's probably because you didn't post a full write-up for what was going to be a joke entry. You're using Axes from the Sky, the Hippogriff Steed stuff, and a heckuva lot of Skyhook (to move around), but not much else. Drogue Charge, Glide For Distance, and the mounted combat feats look like a waste of levels. Skyguard Catapult still looks interesting, but I'd really, really hate to see something as dramatic as that ruined by a 50% miss chance.

  24. - Top - End - #174
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Thanks a lot for your feedback, Darrin.

    How very embarrassing that I missed Toughness! As you can see I tied myself into knots to knock my speed down, and it didn't leave much room for the rest. As for knowing where enemies were, I suppose I was hoping a combination of difficult terrain and them moving in to attack me would mean they weren't moving around too much.

    Duskblade's primary purpose in all of this nonsense is using its cl for SLAs to get elemental grafter (since it was the easiest way I could find to decrease my speed that final 5 feet) and for stand after being prone from catapult. Shielded casting was to shore up the fact that I don't have concentration for almost any levels, so can't cast defensively.

    I'll definitely use some of your ideas to refine if I ever get to use this joke of a build.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Darrin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    This thread didn't kill nearly enough catgirls... and I'm still wondering:

    When Skyguard Catapult says "fall any vertical distance", does this really mean *any* vertical distance? As in, however arbitrarily high I start my fall, I hit my target at the end of my turn? Does this text override the standard falling rate or terminal velocity?

    If the answer is "No", is 150' the maximum distance a creature can fall by RAW on the first round, and then 300' every round after that? Or can my hippogriff accelerate me to a higher speed before I begin my fall? If my hippogriff flies straight down (double speed) and uses a double move, am I moving at 440' per round or 150'? Or if I'm already moving faster than terminal velocity, does drag/friction/etc. slow me back down to 300'?

    And that's assuming the whole 150'/300' thing is a rough approximation of "terminal velocity". The text doesn't identify what exactly those speeds are supposed to represent.

    So, I ask you... what is the highest possible height where you can perform a Skyguard Catapult?

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Or if I'm already moving faster than terminal velocity, does drag/friction/etc. slow me back down to 300'?

    And that's assuming the whole 150'/300' thing is a rough approximation of "terminal velocity". The text doesn't identify what exactly those speeds are supposed to represent.

    So, I ask you... what is the highest possible height where you can perform a Skyguard Catapult?
    None of the following is RAW. But it is likely what I would rule on the fly as a DM to those questions.
    So long as your velocity is towards the mass of the planet, you fall towards it. If you accelerate towards the ground, and quick dismount, I would rule that you can "fall" at a rate of your max speed on the first round, (so if your hippogriff goes 440, you can go either 300 or another 440), on subsequent rounds you fall at 300 per round, and you can make a modified physical ability stat check (players choice) DC 18 or so, to either increase or slow the terminal velocity by their movement rate for the round, with a failure resulting in you simply falling at terminal velocity.

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