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Thread: [PEACH] Warlord

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [PEACH] Warlord

    Made some updates to the file:
    - class levels for each features
    - an attempt to clarify/simplify Inspiring Defense
    - decided to give access to stratagems starting as early as from 5th level, since they are quite relevant to the class role, and added menacing strike.
    - Combat Leader and Stalwart now start with 10 feet radius, and both improve at 18th level, with Stalwart slightly more.
    - Unyielding Company now has a 60 foot radius, can affect up to 10 allies, and lasts for 1 minute for each ally individually.

    Plus, since the class table keeps acting up, it has a whole page for itself now. Hopefully it's satisfied now! XD
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2016-12-19 at 08:27 AM.

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    Default Re: [PEACH] Warlord

    The table looks great, the image of the guy with the bow, is blocking some text though, so that needs to be made a little bit smaller so that you can read the ability
    Last edited by Llama513; 2017-01-04 at 02:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Llama513 View Post
    The table looks great, the image of the guy with the bow, is blocking some text though, so that needs to be made a little bit smaller so that you can read the ability
    Doesn't look like that to me. Weird.
    Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
    My Homebrew:
    Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


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    Default Re: [PEACH] Warlord

    I've looked back at it, and I can make out the text, I don't know what was going on the image seemed way darker earlier, who knows
    Last edited by Llama513; 2017-01-04 at 02:30 PM.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Recently I've been thinking of tackling the one concept that is long since overdue: "Leadership through fear"; A kind of a brutal, barbaric, or even tyrannical subclass, while the two existing subclasses can be categorized as the civilized and inspiring (tactician), or exemplary and courageous (vanguard).

    I could use help in fleshing out the class features, which would need to be along these lines:

    Warlord's Presence: 2nd level opening feature that's ideally always active, and grants an effect to people around you.

    Unique Inspiring Word: 7th level feature, that grants an inspiring word that no other subclass can have.

    Combat prowess improvement: 11th level feature, which improves your combat effectiveness (something along the lines of 2nd Extra Attack, Improved Divine Smite, Volley, Whirlwind Attack, etc.)

    An edgy feature: 15th level feature, which makes you stand out from the rest of your kind, possibly altering or improving an existing core ability.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2016-12-21 at 07:17 AM.
    Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
    My Homebrew:
    Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Ongoing game & character:
    Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)


    D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
    3.0 since 2002
    3.5 since 2003
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    Pathfinder 1e since 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Recently I've been thinking of tackling the one concept that is long since overdue: "Leadership through fear"; A kind of a brutal, barbaric, or even tyrannical subclass, while the two existing subclasses can be categorized as the civilized and inspiring (tactician), or exemplary and courageous (vanguard).

    I could use help in fleshing out the class features, which would need to be along these lines:

    Warlord's Presence: 2nd level opening feature that's ideally always active, and grants an effect to people around you.

    Unique Inspiring Word: 7th level feature, that grants an inspiring word that no other subclass can have.

    Combat prowess improvement: 11th level feature, which improves your combat effectiveness (something along the lines of 2nd Extra Attack, Improved Divine Smite, Volley, Whirlwind Attack, etc.)

    An edgy feature: 15th level feature, which makes you stand out from the rest of your kind, possibly altering or improving an existing core ability.
    Berserker's Hide: At 2nd level,when unarmored you may add your AC is equal to your 10+Dexterity Mod+Constitution Mod. If you hit at least once with weapon attack on your turn, you can use Inspiring Words to let allies within 30 feet of you that can see you to add your Charisma modifier to their Wisdom Saving Throws until the start of your next turn.

    Inspiring Word- Berserker's Roar: At 7th level, you learn the Inspiring Word - Berserker's Roar. You bolster the resolve on one of your companions. An ally of your choice reduces damage they take by an amount equal to your charisma modifier for 1 minute (not sure on the length of the ability).

    Berserker's Presence:At 11th level, Allies within 5ft of you have advantage on melee weapon attacks.

    Berserker Trance: At 15th Level you can use a bonus action to enter the Berserk Trance for 1 minute. While in this trance you add your charisma modifier to attack and damage rolls and have advantage on Wisdom saving throws. (Possibly having the trade off of having to pick a single target that you focus in on, granting advantage to other enemies attacking you, if you use this I would give them advantage on the attack rolls, and adding Charisma to Damage)

    That's my idea, but I don't know if it fits in with the rest of the class or archetypes
    Last edited by Llama513; 2017-01-04 at 02:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Llama513 View Post
    Berserker's Hide: At 2nd level,when unarmored you may add your AC is equal to your 10+Dexterity Mod+Constitution Mod. If you hit at least once with weapon attack on your turn, you can use Inspiring Words to let allies within 30 feet of you that can see you to add your Charisma modifier to their Wisdom Saving Throws until the start of your next turn.

    Inspiring Word- Berserker's Roar: At 7th level, you learn the Inspiring Word - Berserker's Roar. You bolster the resolve on one of your companions. An ally of your choice reduces damage they take by an amount equal to your charisma modifier for 1 minute (not sure on the length of the ability).

    Berserker's Presence:At 11th level, Allies within 5ft of you have advantage on melee weapon attacks.

    Berserker Trance: At 15th Level you can use a bonus action to enter the Berserk Trance for 1 minute. While in this trance you add your charisma modifier to attack and damage rolls and have advantage on Wisdom saving throws. (Possibly having the trade off of having to pick a single target that you focus in on, granting advantage to other enemies attacking you, if you use this I would give them advantage on the attack rolls, and adding Charisma to Damage)

    That's my idea, but I don't know if it fits in with the rest of the class or archetypes
    I think I can work the balance out of it.
    Though it's still missing something that would instill fear into his allies and enemies alike, as the idea is to be something like a Genghis Khan, a warlord whose brutality towards his foes and subjects were the driving force of his success (at least partly).
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2016-12-23 at 07:32 PM.

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    You could change Bersekers Roar to cause fear to all creature within 30 feet for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma Modifier, or something like that
    Last edited by Llama513; 2017-01-04 at 02:30 PM.

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    Hmm. Maybe something similar to a dragon's frightful presence. It could be like this for a warlord:

    Intimidating presence
    Creatures within range must make a save or be frightened for a time, unless they attack targets of your choice, in which case they have advantage on their attack rolls against those targets.
    Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
    My Homebrew:
    Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Ongoing game & character:
    Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)


    D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Hmm. Maybe something similar to a dragon's frightful presence. It could be like this for a warlord:

    Intimidating presence
    Creatures within range must make a save or be frightened for a time, unless they attack targets of your choice, in which case they have advantage on their attack rolls against those targets.
    Yeah, that works, I would suggest going with the usual 30 foot range

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Llama513 View Post
    Yeah, that works, I would suggest going with the usual 30 foot range
    Yeah, ofcourse. I'll reiterate the wording, but that's the approach I'll take. Funny thing about it is that you could technically cause your enemies turn against each other through the fear of you :D
    Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
    My Homebrew:
    Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Ongoing game & character:
    Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)


    D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
    3.0 since 2002
    3.5 since 2003
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    Pathfinder 1e since 2008
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    You totally could, that's a really cool aspect and if you are going for Genghis Khan that makes a lot of sense
    Last edited by Llama513; 2017-01-04 at 02:31 PM.

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    Now that the compulsory christmas festivities are over (not a big fan, no), I've been building up the next sub-class for Warlord, thinking of naming it as Tyrant.

    Here's the current draft (my thanks to Llama513 for the general direction):

    Tyrant
    Leadership through fear.

    Menacing Presence
    Starting when you choose this warlord training at 2nd level, as an Action you can choose a target within 15 feet of you. That target and all hostile creatures within 15 feet of it that can see you must make a Wisdom saving throw against your Stratagem DC. The target remains frightened of you until it surrenders to you or your allies, or until it is 60 feet away from you.
    Other hostile creatures that failed their saves are frightened of you as long as they remain within 30 feet of you, unless they attack the target of your choice.
    Attacking the target of your choice ends the frightened condition on the attacker and gives the following effect instead: All friendly creatures gain advantage on saving throws against fear effects other than yours.
    The effect ends early if you don't use your subsequent Actions to attack the target, if you choose to end it for no action, or if your target surrenders to you or your allies.
    A target who succeeds the saving throw is immune to this effect for 24 hours.

    Inspiring Word - Berserk Roar
    At 7th level, you learn the Inspiring Word - Berserk Roar, to bolster the resolve of your enemies. Allies of your choice reduce damage they take by an amount equal to your charisma modifier until the start of your next turn.

    Incite Rage
    At 11th level, you learn to incite rage. As an Action on your turn, you can incite one of your companions to rage. Your companion can choose to not start raging, but if it doesn’t, it gains the following benefits while raging:
    • The target has advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws.
    • When the target makes a melee weapon attack using Strength, they get a +2 bonus to their damage rolls.
    • The target has resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.

    If the target is able to cast spells, it can't cast them or concentrate on them while raging. Incite Rage lasts for 1 minute. lt ends early if the target is knocked unconscious or if its turn ends and the target hasn't attacked a hostile creature since its last turn or taken damage since then. The target can also end its rage as a bonus action on its turn.

    If the target is a barbarian, it can use the rage class feature instead. Incite Rage doesn’t count against the barbarian’s rage limit.

    You can use this feature once, until you must finish a short or long rest to be able use it again.

    Berserk Rage
    At 15th level, you learn to fight with unbridled ferocity. On your turn, you can enter a rage as a bonus action. While raging, you gain the following effecs:
    • You have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws.
    • When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you get a bonus to damage rolls equal to your Charisma modifier.
    • If you are unable to reach an enemy and attack one, you must succeed on an Intelligence saving throw against your Stratagem DC or approach and attack a nearest ally. If you succeed, you find a brief moment of clarity, and you can use your Action to Dash, Dodge, Ready, or Use an Object, Alternatively, you may use your Warlord's Banner if you have uses left. You repeat this save every turn while your rage lasts.
    • You have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.


    In addition, when you enter Berserk Rage, you can use Incite Rage, even if you have used it already.

    If you are able to cast spells, you can't cast them or concentrate on them while raging.
    While raging you can't use any Inspiring Words or Stratagems other than Berserk Roar.
    Berserk Rage lasts for 1 minute. lt ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven't attacked a creature since your last turn or taken damage since then. You can't end your rage voluntarily. Once your rage ends, you must finish a long rest before you can rage again.

    Edit: Oops! I accidentally made the Incite Rage a bit too much stronger than its equivalent features of Tactician and Vanguard. I think I'll change the Tactician's and Vanguard's features to also last for 1 minute with a short/long rest.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    As a heads up, I'm going to merge Inspiring Words and Stratagems into one ability, but I've been somewhat busy to do that. I'll inform separately when that's done.

    Basically, Stratagems will be "introduced" at first level as part of the Inspiring Word mechanic, setting up the basis for the Stratagem DC etc.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2016-12-27 at 08:55 AM.

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    I like it, you should make it a little clearer that the benefit of incite rage comes from going into the rage, the double negative is a little hard to decifer
    Last edited by Llama513; 2017-01-04 at 02:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Llama513 View Post
    I like it, you should make it a little clearer that the benefit of incite rage comes from going into the rage, the double negative is a little hard to decifer
    I've updated the previous post, but I haven't been able to access homebrewery for a while, so the changes haven't been updated in there - yet.
    - I unified the Incite Rage to more closely resemble actual rage, and remodeled the 15th level feature to Berserk Rage, along the same lines of a standard rage.
    - I also merged Inspiring Words and Stratagems, but I feel it might need some rewording. If someone has a suggestion, let me know.
    - Also, I made updates to the Tyrant in the Homebrewery.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2016-12-27 at 08:28 AM.
    Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
    My Homebrew:
    Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Ongoing game & character:
    Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)


    D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
    3.0 since 2002
    3.5 since 2003
    4e since 2008
    Pathfinder 1e since 2008
    5e since 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    I've updated the previous post, but I haven't been able to access homebrewery for a while, so the changes haven't been updated in there - yet.
    - I unified the Incite Rage to more closely resemble actual rage, and remodeled the 15th level feature to Berserk Rage, along the same lines of a standard rage.
    - I also merged Inspiring Words and Stratagems, but I feel it might need some rewording. If someone has a suggestion, let me know.
    - Also, I made updates to the Tyrant in the Homebrewery.
    I really like what you have done, but I think you should specify the number of allies that you can affect with Berserk Roar at a time, cause being able to affect any amount at once seems a little too strong
    Last edited by Llama513; 2017-01-04 at 02:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Llama513 View Post
    I really like what you have done, but I think you should specify the number of allies that you can affect with Berserk Roar at a time, cause being able to affect any amount at once seems a little too strong
    That's actually specified under the rules for Inspiring Words, as is the action to use them.
    Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
    My Homebrew:
    Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Ongoing game & character:
    Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)


    D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
    3.0 since 2002
    3.5 since 2003
    4e since 2008
    Pathfinder 1e since 2008
    5e since 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    That's actually specified under the rules for Inspiring Words, as is the action to use them.
    Whoops missed that, I think that works quite nicely
    Last edited by Llama513; 2017-01-04 at 02:31 PM.

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    I must say that I'm having second thoughts about Berserk Roar, since it overlaps with the Stalwart's damage reduction. I'm torn whether I should change Berserk Roar or Stalwart to remove the overlap.

    If I change Berserk Roar, it might - instead of damage reduction - either grant some other beneficial effect to your allies (keeping it in line with the other Inspiring Words)
    OR
    make it become first (and so far only) Inspiring Word that affects enemies instead of allies, by frightening a number of enemies;

    Maybe causing disadvantage to attack rolls until the start of your next turn?

    If, however, I end up changing Stalwart I'm wondering whether it would break balance if I gave the warlord an Aura of Courage at 6th level already.
    Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
    My Homebrew:
    Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Ongoing game & character:
    Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)


    D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
    3.0 since 2002
    3.5 since 2003
    4e since 2008
    Pathfinder 1e since 2008
    5e since 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    I must say that I'm having second thoughts about Berserk Roar, since it overlaps with the Stalwart's damage reduction. I'm torn whether I should change Berserk Roar or Stalwart to remove the overlap.

    If I change Berserk Roar, it might - instead of damage reduction - either grant some other beneficial effect to your allies (keeping it in line with the other Inspiring Words)
    OR
    make it become first (and so far only) Inspiring Word that affects enemies instead of allies, by frightening a number of enemies;

    Maybe causing disadvantage to attack rolls until the start of your next turn?

    If, however, I end up changing Stalwart I'm wondering whether it would break balance if I gave the warlord an Aura of Courage at 6th level already.
    I think the frightened makes the most sense thematically, and having theirs be the only one that affects enemies, I think is fine since they are very much built around crushing their enemies
    Last edited by Llama513; 2017-01-04 at 02:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Llama513 View Post
    I think the frightened makes the most sense thematically, and having theirs be the only one that affects enemies, I think is fine since they are very much built around crushing their enemies
    I've been in the process of updating warlord, but last time my laptop decided to run through a massive system update without any permissions asked (thank you Microsoft, for your utterly crappy windows 10. Now could I have my Win 7 back?), So I got interrupted in the middle of work and the page was probably left in some disarray. I'll inform when I've got over my frustration and have fixed what I set up to do in the first place.

    Here are some thoughts I've been going through with the fixes:

    I've been thinking that I might actually flip Stratagems and Inspiring Words around.
    Firstly, you'd learn one Stratagem once you get the class feature, and one more per level at 5th, 9th, 13th and 17th. You'd be able to use a Stratagem for a number of times as shown in the class table for Inspiring Words (though I think I messed the class table up before the mishap); basically same as the warlock's short rest spell slots.
    Secondly, Inspiring Words are going to be shifted to become kinda like Cantrips. You'll still only have the three + 1 from sub-class, but you'll be able to use them all at-will.
    Thirdly, I'm pondering if I should actually drop Banner to first level, and have Stratagems begin at second level (like spells for a half-caster).
    All in all, I'm trying to differentiate Stratagems from Inspiring Words, except for the occasional Saving Throw DC.

    What comes to Berserk Roar, I think I'll make it an ability that instead of giving a new Inspiring Word modifies existing two Inspiring Words (Hero's Defiance and Morale Lift) to force a saving throw or cause a negative effect instead, possibly also negative for invigorate, if I can come up with a relatively equal negative effect for temporary hit points.

    Additionally, at 7th level the Tyrant could use Menacing Attack stratagem at-will.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2016-12-30 at 12:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    I've been thinking that I might actually flip Stratagems and Inspiring Words around.
    Firstly, you'd learn one Stratagem once you get the class feature, and one more per level at 5th, 9th, 13th and 17th. You'd be able to use a Stratagem for a number of times as shown in the class table for Inspiring Words (though I think I messed the class table up before the mishap); basically same as the warlock's short rest spell slots.
    Secondly, Inspiring Words are going to be shifted to become kinda like Cantrips. You'll still only have the three + 1 from sub-class, but you'll be able to use them all at-will.
    Thirdly, I'm pondering if I should actually drop Banner to first level, and have Stratagems begin at second level (like spells for a half-caster).
    All in all, I'm trying to differentiate Stratagems from Inspiring Words, except for the occasional Saving Throw DC.

    What comes to Berserk Roar, I think I'll make it an ability that instead of giving a new Inspiring Word modifies existing two Inspiring Words (Hero's Defiance and Morale Lift) to force a saving throw or cause a negative effect instead, possibly also negative for invigorate, if I can come up with a relatively equal negative effect for temporary hit points.

    Additionally, at 7th level the Tyrant could use Menacing Attack stratagem at-will.
    I like these ideas, as for equal negative effect for temporary hitpoints, I think would be temporarily reducing their maximum hitpoints, I think
    Last edited by Llama513; 2017-01-04 at 02:32 PM.

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    Default Re: [PEACH] Warlord

    Hmm, the ideas lived "a bit" when I was fixing the class.

    Warlord's Banner is now a 2nd level feature.

    Stratagem Changes:
    - Goading, Maneuvering, and Menacing Attack have been moved to Tactician, Vanguard, and Tyrant respectively as 7th level features, since sub-class specific Inspiring Words made no sense anymore.
    - Warlord learns Stratagems at 5th level, and he learns all three remaining stratagems at once.
    - Stratagems can now be used once per rest at 5th level, twice at 9th level, thrice at 13th level, and four times at 17th level.
    - Sub-class specific Stratagems can be used at-will, but only once per turn.

    Tyrant's Menacing Presence completely rebuilt:
    - Tyrant now has "Unarmored Defense" due to a frightening war paint once they choose their sub-class (which are now chosen at 3rd level instead of 2nd).
    - Additionally, starting from 7th level, menacing presence lets a tyrant use Menacing Words at-will (essentially reversed versions of Inspiring Words)

    Sub-class feature changes:
    - 15th level features for Tactician and Vanguard have been slightly boosted as an attempt to balance them with Tyrant.

    Plus some minor changes I already forgot :D
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2016-12-31 at 01:38 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: [PEACH] Warlord

    I'm the only person here who thinks at-will advantage to your whole party for a bonus action is totally unbalanced? Tyrant is even worse as you can just give every enemy you can see disadvantage on their next attack every turn as a bonus action (with no saving throw to resist).
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [PEACH] Warlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    I'm the only person here who thinks at-will advantage to your whole party for a bonus action is totally unbalanced? Tyrant is even worse as you can just give every enemy you can see disadvantage on their next attack every turn as a bonus action (with no saving throw to resist).
    Umm... I'm 100℅-certain that the Tyrant's ability requires a saving throw to resist the effect (read again the description above the words), but I guess you're right about the Words being at-will. I guess I'll change it so that they can be used for a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier per short or long rest. Menacing Words will share the same pool.

    Or is your beef with the ability being bonus action? I've got no problem with changing it to Action instead.

    But it's definitely not every enemy you can see; it's enemies up to your charisma modifier, which can be anything between 1 to 5 (though, more likely anything between 2 to 5).

    PS. You know, instead of sharing your opinions in a rather belittling manner, maybe you could've suggested a fix to make it more balanced so that it would please you.
    Right now I can only thank you for nothing.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2016-12-31 at 09:14 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: [PEACH] Warlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Umm... I'm 100℅-certain that the Tyrant's ability requires a saving throw to resist the effect (read again the description above the words), but I guess you're right about the Words being at-will. I guess I'll change it so that they can be used for a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier per short or long rest. Menacing Words will share the same pool.

    Or is your beef with the ability being bonus action? I've got no problem with changing it to Action instead.

    But it's definitely not every enemy you can see; it's enemies up to your charisma modifier, which can be anything between 1 to 5 (though, more likely anything between 2 to 5).

    PS. You know, instead of sharing your opinions in a rather belittling manner, maybe you could've suggested a fix to make it more balanced so that it would please you.
    Right now I can only thank you for nothing.
    I did misread the Menacing Words, up to 5 targets with a saving throw makes it a lot more manageable, though at that point it might be better to just spam Encouraging Word instead. I guess I would recommend offering a different effect. Maybe the Menacing Word equivalent gives one selected enemy disadvantage on all attacks it makes until your next turn?

    Encouraging Word is just insane, though. Bardic Inspiration is a really good ability, and even Bards can only use their bonus action to give one ally an advantage-like boost to attack or skill at a time, up to 5 times per short rest. Encouraging Word is way too good.

    Since you're using maneuvers a la Battlemaster in this anyway, how about straight up using a shared pool of Tactical Dice, or something, so you can mirror the effects of both Bardic Inspiration dice and Superiority dice at the same time? Supportive Word then gives one ally a save reroll with a bonus equal to the Tactical Die roll, Invigorating Word gives one ally temporary hit points equal to the Tactical Die roll (+ your Charisma modifier maybe), and Encouraging Word gives one ally a bonus on their next attack or skill check equal to the Tactical Die roll.

    In fact, this could be really cool if it worked like Bardic Inspiration where you give the ally a Tactical Die and they choose when and how to spend it sometime within the next 10 minutes, because, then as you gain Battlemaster maneuvers that you can use with the Tactical Die so could any teammate you have given a Tactical Die to.

    Sorry if I'm came across as belittling, I didn't mean to, but I did post right before going to bed and after a hard day of work. Just remember, not every comment is going to be praise. Even criticism that's not inherently constructive can be valuable.
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [PEACH] Warlord

    I realize that not all comments are going to be praises, but that's not what I have an issue with.
    Instead, criticism without elaborating what exactly bothers the person isn't really helpful.

    All I want is to have the Warlord be a well-balanced class. :(

    "criticism that's not inherently constructive can be valuable."
    Valuable? Sure. Helpful? Not really.

    If something feels off-balance, in my honest opinion, it would be more helpful (for me) if people would explain why they feel how they feel, and how would they prefer see it fixed.

    I wish I'm not asking for impossible things, and I'm sorry if my response sounded aggressive. It wasn't my intention. Probably a bit sarcastic, though.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-01-01 at 03:18 AM.

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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [PEACH] Warlord

    I intended to discuss this behind closed doors at first to avoid polluting the thread with a completely new iteration of full mechanics, but I actually liked the idea Ziegander proposed, and I found I'm impatient to see what others might think of this:

    Inspiring Words are abilities which you use either as your bonus action or as your reaction, depending on circumstances.

    Stratagems are abilities which you can let your allies use by spending Battle Inspiration dice for the appropriate rolls, much like Bardic Inspiration.

    The difference between Inspiring Words and Stratagems is that Inspiring Words are intended as their own actions, while Stratagems are intended being used as part of an attack.

    1st level: Battle Inspiration (d4)
    You learn all Inspiring Words (essentially same as Bardic Inspiration (including Combat Inspiration from Valor Bard)+Rally maneuver).
    You can use the Battle Inspiration a number of times equal to your charisma modifier per long rest.
    5th level: Battle Inspiration (d6)
    You learn Commander's Strike and Distracting Strike, which you can use 1/turn (at-will). You can use either or.
    In addition, you learn 1 Stratagem of your choice from the list below, which you can grant to your allies instead of Inspiring Words.
    You can now use Battle Inspiration a number of times equal to your charisma modifier per short rest.
    7th level: Sub-class feature
    Tactician learns Maneuvering Attack, which you can use in place of Commander's Strike or Distracting Strike (at-will)
    Vanguard learns Goading Attack, which you can use in place of Commander's Strike or Distracting Strike (at-will)
    Tyrant learns Menacing Attack, which you can use in place of Commander's Strike or Distracting Strike (at-will)
    9th level: Battle Inspiration (d8)
    You learn 1 additional Stratagem from the list below.
    10th level: Warlord Base feature
    Inspired Defense: You add Parry and Riposte to your list of Inspiring Words.
    13th level: Battle Inspiration (d10)
    You learn 1 additional Stratagem from the list below.
    17th level: Battle Inspiration (d12)
    You learn 1 additional Stratagem from the list below.

    The Stratagem List:
    Disarming Attack
    Feinting Attack
    Lunging Attack
    Precision Attack
    Pushing Attack
    Sweeping Attack
    Trip Attack


    In addition to the existing options, Tyrant gets Cutting Words equivalent as Menacing Words, plus one that is intended as a reversed effect for Rally.

    Does that sound fair and balanced to you guys?
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-01-01 at 07:25 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: [PEACH] Warlord

    Sorry, I did get your PM, but it's been a long, busy day.

    What I was suggesting was, essentially, well, this:

    WARLORD'S TACTICS
    You can lead others through tactical commands delivered in the midst of battle. You have a number of Tactical dice equal to your Charisma modifier, which are d6s. A Tactical die is expended when used by you or an ally (see below). You regain all of your expended Tactical dice when you finish a long rest.

    As a bonus action on your turn, you may roll one of your Tactical dice to gain that many temporary hit points or add the number rolled to one ability check, attack roll, or saving throw you make.

    Alternatively, you may use your bonus action to give the Tactical die to a chosen creature other than yourself within 60 feet of you who can hear you. Once within the next 10 minutes, the creature can roll the die and gain that many temporary hit points or add the number rolled to one ability check, attack roll, or saving throw it makes.

    The creature can wait until after it rolls the d20 before deciding to use the Tactical die, but must decide before the GM says whether the roll succeeds or fails. Once the Tactical die is used, it is lost. A creature can have only one Tactical die at a time.

    Your Tactical die changes when you reach certain levels in this class. The die becomes a d8 at 5th level, a d10 at 10th level, and a d12 at 15th level.
    And so, then, as the Warlord as written would gain new maneuvers or inspiring words, I was suggesting that you amend it so that those become new uses for the Warlord's Tactics ability as written above, so that either you could use them yourself, or grant the dice to your party mates so that they could use them if they wanted. Makes the class into an interesting Battlemaster Skald hybrid. I'd suggest having the dice replenish on a short rest around 5th level when the Bard gets Font of Inspiration (you can put that at 6th, or you can move extra attack to 6th level if you want). My main sticking point was, though Bards get spells at 1st level, you don't want your inspiration ability to just be so overwhelmingly more powerful than theirs because the Warlord doesn't get spells. Bardic Inspiration is great, often as good as any 1st level spell or better.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2017-01-01 at 07:59 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [PEACH] Warlord

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    Sorry, I did get your PM, but it's been a long, busy day.

    What I was suggesting was, essentially, well, this:



    And so, then, as the Warlord as written would gain new maneuvers or inspiring words, I was suggesting that you amend it so that those become new uses for the Warlord's Tactics ability as written above, so that either you could use them yourself, or grant the dice to your party mates so that they could use them if they wanted. Makes the class into an interesting Battlemaster Skald hybrid. I'd suggest having the dice replenish on a short rest around 5th level when the Bard gets Font of Inspiration (you can put that at 6th, or you can move extra attack to 6th level if you want). My main sticking point was, though Bards get spells at 1st level, you don't want your inspiration ability to just be so overwhelmingly more powerful than theirs because the Warlord doesn't get spells. Bardic Inspiration is great, often as good as any 1st level spell or better.
    So, basically more or less what I came up with from your previous post. :)

    JFYI, the format would be more like what you wrote, not like how I put it in my iteration. It was basically for bullet-point-esque purposes to help figuring out what comes at which levels.

    I did intend that warlord could be some kind of no-spell alternative for Bard (for a no-magic campaign, for example) with its own schtick as a battlefield leader as it was in 4th edition, with potential for "martial healing" in the form of granting temporary hit points and/or spending hit dice in combat.

    The reason why I chose to progress the die from d4 to d12 was that I hoped to fill dead levels at 9th and 13th levels with something, and I felt it could follow a pattern similar to when half-caster spell levels increase (5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th)

    Why I prefer to call the dice Battle Inspiration is mainly because Tactician is one of the three sub-classes and it might cause confusion if both the core class and one sub-class used similar terminology. But maybe that's just me.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-01-01 at 08:32 PM.

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