Magic the Gathering XXII: Where Puns Go to Die

[danzibr]

I play Maelstrom Wanderer / Yidris mono-threats. Basically, I'm of the opinon that trying to answer your opponent's stuff in multiplayer is always something of a mistake - all that happens is someone else plays something that ends the game themselves. Instead, I tried to build the deck with the philosophy of 'the only answers in the deck are ones that also demand an answer themselves'. Just keep slamming game ending issues people have to deal with until something sticks.

It helps that Warp World is one of my favourite cards.

Whoa, Yidris is really cool. Play some cards that let him combat deal damage to a player, get multiple copies of Cascade going. Cool.

[Ebon_Drake]

So, what I've learned here is that if a mechanic is one of Mark Rosewater's darlings, they probably shouldn't have printed it. Storm, Infect, and Banding... and now Energy.

...uh? What does Maro have to do with Banding and when has he ever said anything positive about it? It's a horribly complex and extremely defensive mechanic, but it's not really broken either (unless I missed something truly hilarious happening in Legacy or whatever) so I really don't see what it's doing in that list.

I'm also not sure that he was the designer of or big advocate for Storm. Heck, he's not even listed as being on the design team for Scourge. He was on the design team for Time Spiral and has said they made a mistake there in thinking they could make balanced Storm cards, but I suspect it's more notable that Brian Tinsman was the lead designer for both Scourge and Time Spiral. I know it's a popular joke to blame Maro for everything wrong with Magic, but I don't feel he should have to shoulder too much blame for that one.

Energy though is absolutely 100% his darling mechanic. The issues with it though are (as with vehicles, i.e. Smuggler's Copter) at least as much on the development team for not adequately testing and costing them properly.

[Bucky]

Some of the implementations of energy are fine. The trick is to limit the rate at which it can be cashed in, like Rogue Refiner or the Thriving creatures, rather than letting the player dump all of it at the same time to one card like Whirler Virtuoso.

[tgva8889]

Hmm... I'm a fan. Dunno if I can pick a favorite.

Doing things no one else does is fun, especially when people then start doing it after. I remember building a series of mono-color decks because we thought they wouldn't be very good. That was, like 10 years ago, though. How times have changed.

I play Maelstrom Wanderer / Yidris mono-threats. Basically, I'm of the opinon that trying to answer your opponent's stuff in multiplayer is always something of a mistake - all that happens is someone else plays something that ends the game themselves. Instead, I tried to build the deck with the philosophy of 'the only answers in the deck are ones that also demand an answer themselves'. Just keep slamming game ending issues people have to deal with until something sticks.

I don't have a deck like this (my non-White deck is Vial Smasher the Fierce because Vial Smasher the Fierce is awesome and loads of fun) but this deck sounds like exactly my kind of jam. Yidris looks like a blast to play.

[Turalisj]

With the banlist shakeup, thinking of taking my first real stab at standard. Was wondering on opinions of an explore themed deck, maybe adding winding constrictor and journey to eternity.

[gooddragon1]

Stealth Eldrazi Atog?

Lithatog


L(ithatog)
It That Og (an extra t, but still)

It even eats lands...

[enderlord99]

<snip>

"Lith" means "stone."

[ImperiousLeader]

I went 3-1 at my prerelease (7-2 in games), mostly due to an absurd cardpool.

Spoiler: Esper Greedpile

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Creatures
1x Gleaming Barrier
1x Martyr of Dusk
1x Inspiring Cleric
2x Sailor of Means
1x Deadeye Plunderers
1x Azor, the Lawbringer (!)
1x Nezahal, Primal Tide (!!)
1x Zetalpa, Primal Dawn (!!!)

Other Spells
1x Entrancing Melody
2x Moment of Craving
1x Baffling End
1x Luminous Bonds
1x Queen's Commission
1x Recover
1x Vanquish the Weak
1x Profane Procession (!!!!)
1x Run Aground
1x Bright Reprisal

Mana
2x Traveller's Amulet
7x Plains
7x Island
4x Swamp

Azor, Zetalpa, Profane Procession and to a lesser extent Nezahal are ridiculous cards. Each of them won me at least one game effectively single handed. I did get lucky in only flooding once despite having effectively 20 lands, however; I think I could have dropped a land and still done fine.

The bomb rares in this set are indeed super bombs. Elder Dinosaurs just wrecked my face every time they landed. That said, I did 4-0 the midnight prerelease, only losing a single game when the black dinosaur wrathed my board (Sunday went 2-1, losing to again, elder dinosaurs). I managed to put together an aggressive Blue/Red pirate deck. 5 bounce spells, a bunch of 1 drops and cheap fliers let me win quickly. It's weird, I feel like Rivals of Ixalan is very much a prince format, there are some insane bomb rares, but not in Blue. Yet Blue has enough gas in the lower rarities to get there. The pirate that bounces on raid is super good.

[Binks]

...uh? What does Maro have to do with Banding...I'm also not sure that he was the designer of or big advocate for Storm.

For the curious, I did some research.

Storm - Originated in Scourge, Maro wasn't on that design team (as documented in one of his columns, he was on the Mirrodan design team instead). Blame him for Affinity, not Storm :P.

Infect - Yep, Maro's idea. Honestly though, was it really that powerful? I'm asking. I don't play standard, and I don't see any Infect cards banned in any of the major formats right now, so I'm honestly asking if it was OP or just irritating.

Banding - Banding is from Alpha. Blame Garfield :). Also, definitely not OP, just rules ridiculous.

Energy - Yep, Maro's idea. Honestly though, the idea works fine, just the numbers are a bit off. But it is his mechanic.

[Fable Wright]

Infect - Yep, Maro's idea. Honestly though, was it really that powerful? I'm asking. I don't play standard, and I don't see any Infect cards banned in any of the major formats right now, so I'm honestly asking if it was OP or just irritating.

It's the reason Burning Shoal is banned in Modern. And as it current is, it's one of the most binary decks in Modern (either they kill you with an unblockable infect creature or they lose by turn 3-4). Also is absolutely miserable in formats that start above 20 life. It's also one of the key kill conditions in the irritating Nivix Blitz decks. Basically, it's great for ending the game in an incredibly fast and uninteractive manner.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'll cop to being wrong about both Storm and Banding. Although they are good examples of mechanics that should at least never be reprinted.

Energy and Infect are actually very similar mechanics, conceptually, which why I think they're both kind of unbalanced. Both introduce a new resource into the game - one of which kills you, and one of which you can use for more advantages. Which is actually a cool idea.

The big problem is that when introducing these mechanics, they gave us basically zero ways to actually interact with them, and in the case of Infect, this is by design. Once you've got Infect counters, you've got them until the game ends. You can't get rid of them, you can't remove them... they're just there. And as soon as they get to 10, you're dead, no matter your life total or any other consideration. The only cards that interact with Infect in any meaningful way are Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Solemnity - both of which are substandard answers, since they're either easy to remove or come down slowly.

Energy is like the anti-Infect. Once I've made Energy, it's there; my opponent can't deal with it in any meaningful way (apart from the aforementioned Solemnity). So I've got a new resource which I can stockpile and use without having to worry about my opponent being able to stop me. With Attune with Aether and Aether Hub, this gives me the ability to run 3 and 4 colour manabases with what amounts to impunity. Similarly, the best creatures that can use Energy have an immediate effect - I can spend energy to make my Bristling Hydra bigger and make it immune to stop removal, or if you try to remove my Whirler Virtuoso, I can throw as much energy into it as I have to make an army of 1/1 fliers, which necessitates mass removal. Something that they have significantly weakened in recent sets. Longtusk Cub is a decent creature before you start putting energy into it and so having it removed isn't that bad, but once you start jamming energy into it, it gets really big, really quickly.

Energy is a cool idea that was printed without any ways to interact with it - and since WotC has been moving away from good interactive spells in general, it basically became the best thing you could be doing in Standard. In other formats, where you can interact better, it's actually pretty weak, but that's mostly because it's a very parasitic mechanic - energy doesn't worth with anything outside of the Kaladesh block.

[Androgeus]

It's also one of the key kill conditions in the irritating Nivix Blitz decks

It's really just a pseudo double strike in Nivix Blitz.

[Dhavaer]

I'm putting together a Standard deck based around Twilight Prophet (2BB, 2/4 flying, ascend: during upkeep reveal top card, drain equal to CMC, put in your hand) and Dusk // Dawn (2WW destroy all creatures power > 2 // 3WW return all creatures power <= 2 from graveyard to your hand). Dusk doesn't kill prophet, Dawn returns to if it dies, Prophet hits for 9 if Dusk // Dawn is revealed.

I want more creatures that synergise with Dusk // Dawn - ones that get value when entering or dying and have power 2 or less - and spells that synergise with prophet - higher CMC than they would actually be cast for. Ravenous Chupacabra and Dusk Legion Zealot look like obvious picks for the first category, and Never // Return for the second, but I'm not sure what else to put in. My mana curve is pretty top-heavy at the moment - 3 four-of 4 drops, so cheaper cards would be good. At the moment I'm looking at:

Aether Poisoner (good blocker, can make tokens for ascend)
Banewhip Punisher (removal, synergises with Grind // Dust if I play that)
Kitesail Freebooter (hand disruption, evasive attacker)
Skymarch Bloodletter (life drain, evasive attacker)
Grind // Dust (6 CMC but plays for 2, can kill weaker creatures that Dusk doesn't get and Dust can kill Hazoret)
Start // Finish (6 CMC, plays for 3, creates tokens for ascend and functions as removal)

Gonti, Lord of Luxury, is great but given how pack the 4 drop slot is I think I'll leave them in the sideboard.

Any suggestions?

[Tvtyrant]

I think Energy could still do it, Era of Innovation is amazing and no one plays it.

[Techwarrior]

Bone Picker is a 3/2 for 3B with flying and deathtouch. If something dies, you only have to pay B for it though.

[Zombimode]

Once you've got Infect counters, you've got them until the game ends. You can't get rid of them, you can't remove them... they're just there.

That is not actually true. I mean, you won't like the answers, but they are there

Dusk doesn't kill prophet, Dawn returns to if it dies, Prophet hits for 9 if Dusk // Dawn is revealed.

Are you sure about... *checks gatherer*

Huh. Seems like they changed the rules for determining CMC for split Cards.

Well, Isochron Scepter just got a lot worse.

[Tvtyrant]

Are you sure about... *checks gatherer*

Huh. Seems like they changed the rules for determining CMC for split Cards.

Well, Isochron Scepter just got a lot worse.

I had this same thought earlier today. I was looking at making a delver deck using Disrupting Shoal and split cards and discovered they changed the way they worked :C

[Turalisj]

Regarding the deck, you want to hit ten permanents fast and then get that ascend trigger off. I found in draft that as long as heavy removal wasn't in play, around turn 4-5, I could get the trigger.

But that is draft, and might be too slow for standard.

[Ebon_Drake]

I had this same thought earlier today. I was looking at making a delver deck using Disrupting Shoal and split cards and discovered they changed the way they worked :C

That change happened with the release of Amonkhet. A few players got mad about it after they'd invested heavily in the "X's Expertise" cycle from Aether Revolt only to find the next set changed how those cards interacted with split cards and the decks no longer worked. They probably should have changed the rule with Aether Revolt instead, but I don't have much sympathy with the deckbuilders since if you've built around abusing the heck out of a rules loophole then you should always have the expectation that said loophole will one day get closed. Really, WOTC's mistake was more in letting the loophole exist for so long rather than in removing it.

[Meta]

Anyone participating in Great Designer Search 3? I've started my cramming for the multiple-choice exam. The last one had some really tricky questions.

[Bucky]

Nope. Wizards' design sensibilities differ sufficiently from my own that I think participating is likely to be a waste of time.

[Tvtyrant]

That change happened with the release of Amonkhet. A few players got mad about it after they'd invested heavily in the "X's Expertise" cycle from Aether Revolt only to find the next set changed how those cards interacted with split cards and the decks no longer worked. They probably should have changed the rule with Aether Revolt instead, but I don't have much sympathy with the deckbuilders since if you've built around abusing the heck out of a rules loophole then you should always have the expectation that said loophole will one day get closed. Really, WOTC's mistake was more in letting the loophole exist for so long rather than in removing it.

As far as I know Brain in a Jar and Goblin Dark Dweller decks were never good, so it seems a bit silly to me. It won't effect me regardless, I don't play Modern anymore due to the lack of counterspells and this just confirms that decision.

[Binks]

Anyone participating in Great Designer Search 3? I've started my cramming for the multiple-choice exam. The last one had some really tricky questions.

I wish. Apparently I picked the wrong set/couple of months to take a break during. Designer Search 3 and MtG Arena both announced (and Designer Search application time closed) while I wasn't paying attention :P. Best of luck to you.

[Silfir]

That change happened with the release of Amonkhet. A few players got mad about it after they'd invested heavily in the "X's Expertise" cycle from Aether Revolt only to find the next set changed how those cards interacted with split cards and the decks no longer worked. They probably should have changed the rule with Aether Revolt instead, but I don't have much sympathy with the deckbuilders since if you've built around abusing the heck out of a rules loophole then you should always have the expectation that said loophole will one day get closed. Really, WOTC's mistake was more in letting the loophole exist for so long rather than in removing it.

How do you distinguish "a loophole that was going to be closed sooner or later" from "a rule" without the benefit of hindsight?

[Ebon_Drake]

How do you distinguish "a loophole that was going to be closed sooner or later" from "a rule" without the benefit of hindsight?

Simple. If your deck strategy requires you to bring a copy of the Comprehensive Rules to the table and cite specific subsections of it in order to convince your opponent that you are not in fact cheating, then what you are doing is clearly highly counter-intuitive and contrary to the spirit of the rules despite technically adhering to the letter of them. The longer you have to spend explaining a rule, the worse the rule is.

WOTC changed the rules around combat damage using the stack on the rationale that it basically felt like cheating when players would pull stunts like assigning damage and then bouncing their creature. Much as I enjoyed the nuance of those strategies, I don't really disagree with WOTC's reasoning there and it also shows they are quite prepared to change rules to make them more intuitive. If they're willing to remove something as widely accepted as damage-on-the-stack tricks, it shouldn't come as any surprise that they're willing to change the ridiculous corner-case rule that allowed players to cast Development with Isochron Scepter and so on.

[Meta]

I wish. Apparently I picked the wrong set/couple of months to take a break during. Designer Search 3 and MtG Arena both announced (and Designer Search application time closed) while I wasn't paying attention :P. Best of luck to you.

I hear ya. I tuned back in enough to give it a shot. Last test had some real rough questions, I expect this one to be a bear as well. Thanks for the luck : )

[Finback]

So, on a Vorthos note, man. Does anyone else feel REALLY bad for Jace and Vraska, as per the recent story developments? I mean, yay for what they are working on, but they

Spoiler: SPOILY PROTECTO!

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are perhaps even more an OTP than Nissa/Chandra. I like that they will probably be best pals again after they deal with Nicol Bolas, but I was a bit heartbroken after all their

character development.

From the booklet that comes with the fat pack, at least

Spoiler: MORE STUFF

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Angrath gets to go home to his family, with Huatli in tow. I'm hoping some more stories to come expand on them, as they aren't exactly buddies, but I can see her telling him to show her the world

.

But most of all, damnit, we need more BREECHES. He's one of my favourite characters to come out of Ixalan. I mean, "DEBT AND ALE AND CARDS AND FESTIVITIES"?

[Zombimode]

Simple. If your deck strategy requires you to bring a copy of the Comprehensive Rules to the table and cite specific subsections of it in order to convince your opponent that you are not in fact cheating, then what you are doing is clearly highly counter-intuitive and contrary to the spirit of the rules despite technically adhering to the letter of them. The longer you have to spend explaining a rule, the worse the rule is.

You mean like that tokens do enter the graveyard (and other zones) although they are not actual Cards?
You mean like tiggered abilities like "whenever a creature is put into the graveyard" will trigger for every object put into the graveyard by a mass removal even if the source of the ability is put into the graveyard at the same time?
You mean like a 2/3 Tarmogoyf with no instants in the 'Yard will not die to a Lightning Bolt?
... but the same Tarmogoyf WILL die to an "destroy target creature with toughness 3 or less" instant?
You mean like "Protection from White" does not a creature from Wrath of God?
You mean like turning an Eager Cadet with 3 soldier Lords on the battlefield into a 1/1 doesn't actually change it's P/T?
You mean like blinking a O-Ring/Faceless Butcher/Fiendhunter in Response to the ETB effect means that the targeted permanent is exiled forever?
You mean like Things attached to a permanent won't come back whan the permanent phases?

Knowledge of Magic rules varies greatly between the Players. Many Players don't know what the stack is. Others have never heard of the term "priority". Others are not aware that you actually can do stuff before you draw for your turn.

Where do you want to draw the line when rules Knowledge is sufficient to differntiate between "loophole" and "rule"?

[Turalisj]

I'm not sure where that 'many players have never heard of the stack or priority' comes from. Every play group I've seen, outside of kitchen magic, understands those rules.

[Zombimode]

I'm not sure where that 'many players have never heard of the stack or priority' comes from. Every play group I've seen, outside of kitchen magic, understands those rules.

... which is the vast majority of players.

Usually a playgroup has one or two players with good rules knowledge (likely due to a vested interest in the game), while the others like the game and know how to play it but lacking an in-depth rules familarity.
And that is that Beauty of Magic: you can play it (reasonably) without actually knowing all the rules. Of course not without the occasional hickup (like trying to cast an instant in someone else Mainphase on an empty stack), but in a non-competative environment this doesn't really matter.